following up: Re: post-war immigration to Argentina and Israel: where to start

Wendy Griswold

Hi, cousins. As usual, I am overwhelmed by the response. It never
fails. The minute I post a question on the list I get swamped with a
freelance job and I have to take a step back from genealogy for a few
days. I don't want anyone to think I'm ungrateful or, heaven forbid,
that I wouldn't follow up, but it's not going to be this week.

Many thanks to Marilyn Newman, Alberto Guido Chester, Joel Alan
Weiner, Mitchell Collier, Rose Feldman, and Barbara Ellman. I can't
wait to get started with all the helpful hints you've offered.

Wendy Griswold
Jupiter FL

Searching: Zurawno, Israel, Argentina: BLITZ, PFEIFFER (every
conceivable spelling)
Ekaterinoslaw (Dniepro): DWASS
Nowy Sacz area: EINHORN, WENZELBERG, SHIFULDREM (every imaginable spelling)

Couple getting married multiple times

Joel weiner

Anyone have an idea why a couple would get married over and over again? I definitely have the same people getting married in Florida in 1996, 1999, and 2000. Each time in a different county. In addition, they got married in California in 1994.

info on Yosef Engelman as a son of Charles (Aron Zadok) Engelman from Bialystok, Poland? #poland

Ancestry Mail

Charles (Aron Zadok) Engelman (1845-1895) and Mindel Kucherovsky (1850-1918) of Bialystok, Poland, had 1 daughter (Freda) and 5 sons (Harry, Samuel, Max and Abraham) who immigrated to the USA.  Most settled din Pennsylvania. 

I was told that Charles and Mindel had 1 more son, Yosef Engelman, who remained in Bialystok.  He may have married Fajga (Feiga) Vegmeister (1885-1942?). They may have had several children.  Yad Vashem testimony (at may say she and her children died in the Shoah ~1942.

I'm trying to find out whether Yosel Engelman IS, in fact, another son of Charles (Aron Zadok) Engelman of Bialystok.  Does anyone have any documentation about the father/son relationship?  Where can I find this type of documentation/information online?  At the JewishGen databases, I see a Yosef Engelman from Bialystok, but I do not see any records to connect Yosef and Charles (Aron Zadok) as son and father.

Thank you very much.

Re: Include Family Name in Subject

Dahn Cukier

This has been our format for years, whether it is officially in the guidelines or not. It helps the poster as well as those who get digests or individual posts determine whether to participate in a particular issue.
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC
Family names in the Subject field have never been part of the format,
it would mean Subject fields longer than permitted by many applications.

The family names being researched have been part of the "Signature Field"
which comes at the end of the post.


Researching 4 families with at least a dozen different spellings, and one
whose pronunciation is unclear.

When you start to read readin,
how do you know the fellow that
wrote the readin,
wrote the readin right?

Festus Hagen
Long Branch Saloon
Dodge City, Kansas

On Friday, February 7, 2020, 12:52:56 AM GMT+2, <jbonline1111@...> wrote:

This has been our format for years, whether it is officially in the guidelines or not.  It helps the poster as well as those who get digests or individual posts determine whether to participate in a particular issue.
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Re: US immigration records in early 19th century #usa

Karen <kgschneider@...>

You may be searching the right way however it was probably too early to obtain the information you want from those records. According to this Ellis Island link about researching U.S. immigration records, it seems:
The person's birthplace was not requested on ships' lists until 1906.
And it wasn't until 1907 that a second page was added that included the name and address of the alien's nearest relative in the country from which they came.

Klass descendants near Johannesburg, South Africa #southafrica

Ancestry Mail

I'm trying to locate any living Klass descendants near Johannesburg, South Africa.  Nathan Klass (of Lithuania, 1874-1933) married Fanny Marks and immigrated to South Africa in 1912.  They settled in Lindley, Free State, and had 5 children:  Samuel Jacob Klass (b. Jan 13, 1915), Ruby Klass (b. Jan 22, 1917), Muriel Klass (b. Dec 21, 1921), Hannah (b. Apr 14, 1924), and Morris Klass (b. Jan 11, 1931). 

1. Samuel Jacob married Irene.  He died in 1990 in Johannesburg.  I do not know if Irene is alive. Who and where are their children?
2. Ruby married Sydney Hoffman. She died in 2011 in Johannesburg. He died in 2008. Their children are Adrian, Shirley and Natalie?  Where are they? 
3.  Muriel married Wilfred Duchen. They moved to near Ontario, Canada. She died in 2007. He died in 2009.  Who and where are their children?
4.  Hannah married Gerald Bennet Miller. She died in 1954. He died in 2006 in Johannesburg.  Who and where are their children?
5. Morris married Lorna (Felicity?) Jansen. He died in 2009 in Johannesburg.  Who and where are their children?

If you know the names, etc.,  of these Klass descendants, and/or how I can contact them, please email me at ancestrymail0@... .  Thank you.

(United Kingdom) National Archives to Trial 12 Document Limit Per Day for Visitors

Jan Meisels Allen


The (UK) National Archives announced a new trial restricting readers to 12 documents a day despite the concern of historians and researchers.  A six-month trial begins the end of March.  If requested in advance, an additional 12 documents will be allowed. The rationale given is that it will increase efficiency. They came to the decision after looking at the average number of documents viewed by each visitor each day.


Between 20 and 40 documents can also be ordered in bulk, but only eight people can use the service each day and the documents must be from the same series. 


Traditionally, visitors have been able to browse as many documents as required from the archives.  The Archives hold treasures spanning 1,000 years.  The number of visitors at the National Archives have gradually been decreasing over recent years.

To read more see:


Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee



Re: Looking for Solomon FUKS

Ronald D. Doctor

Ilya, the Kremenets (Ukraine) District Research Group has been accumulating, translating and posting documents relating to Jews of the Kremenets district for the past 18 years. Our Concordance, a master name and place index, now has almost 400,000 entries. Of those, about 600 are for the surname Fuks, including 10 for Shlome Fuks. The name appears in records for various towns in the Kremenets district between 1834 and 1934.

You can search our Concordance on our Kehilalinks website at:
Do a Hebrew Surname search to see if any of these look useful to you.


Ron Doctor, rddpdx@...
Co-Coordinator, Kremenets Shtetl CO-OP/Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
an activity of the Kremenets District Research Group (KDRG)
Overland Park, Kansas USA

Researching DOCTOR (DIOKHTER), VARER, AVERBAKH, KORENFELD ... all from Kremenets, Oleksinets, Yampol, Vishnevets
and KAZDOY (KOSODOY), DUBINSKI, DUBOWSKY ... all from Kiev, Uman, Odessa

Re: US immigration records in early 19th century #usa

David Oseas

One word of caution that I forgot to mention in my detailed reply:  for pre-1907 naturalizations, don't get your hopes up about finding where your relative came from or how they arrived.  These naturalization records seldom contain anything more than the name and residence of the applicant and the signature of the applicant and a witness.

David Oseas

KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York  
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles

Re: US immigration records in early 19th century #usa

David Oseas

For the most part, Ancestry has only index records.  FamilySearch has images of naturalization documents, but many are not indexed yet.  First try FamilySearch's indexes to see if you can easily locate the documents.

If they are not indexed, don't despair: with the information provided by Ancestry and a bit of detective work, you can usually locate them.

I recently went through the same process for a relative & I'll walk you through the steps, using her naturalization as an example. My relative was Ida Schechter (b. 1890), naturalized 29 Jun 1943 in Eastern District Ct of NY ( ).

From the Ancestry data, you will need to determine which court your relative naturalized in.  Depending on the collection, this may be included as field, provided in the source citation, or may be in the name of the collection itself.  In Ida's case, the data appears both as a data field and in the source citation: Eastern District Ct of NY.

If an image exists for the Ancestry index record, examine it:  depending on when/where the naturalization happened, you may need the date and/or the petition number and/or volume & page number.  These pieces of information are usually not captured in Ancestry's indexing.  In Ida's case, her petition number is 370911.  If you are looking for a declaration (ie, initial papers, not final papers), the process will work the same way, but you record the info about the declaration, not the petition.

Now go to the FamilySeach catalog ( ) and do a keyword search. Enter the name and type of the court, followed by either "naturalization" or "petition" (for declarations, use "declaration") without quotations.  In this example, we will search for "New York Eastern District Petition".

You may need to experiment with both words to see which brings up the appropriate collections.  Note that there may be several collections returned, usually a mixture of index-only and ones with full records, and usually for different time periods.

In my example, 16 search results are returned.  However, from the description, we can see that the collection that includes the full records is "Final petition and citizenship papers (New York), 1865-1958".  Next, we need to look at the details of this collection ( ).  For this collection, we locate the roll of film (digitized images) that contain Ida's petition #370911, which is "Naturalization records, (cert. no. 370587-371100) 19-24 Feb 1943" (FHL 2394797, DGS 007778077).  Do not be confused by FamilySearch's use of the term "cert." here, this is actually the petition number (I've asked them several times to correct their catalog terminology).  Also, note that the date on the index card was the date of admission, not the date of the petition and occurs sometime later.  Take note if the roll contains multiple items, and if so, which item contains the desired record.

Now we click on the camera icon to enter the image browser to view the film.  Since this roll only contains one item, we start at the beginning.  Otherwise, we would first need to locate the start of the item within the roll. 

Examine a few of the first documents to see what is included.  In this case, there is a copy of the Certificate of Arrival (CofA), plus the petition, front and back, so there are approximately 3 images per document.  Other collections may also include copies of the declaration, while others may omit the CofA.  Examine one of the petitions to see the petition number stamped on it -- I tend to use the image in the upper right hand corner, which is image #10; in this case, the next image (#11) contains petition #370588.  Do the math to determine which image number is going to be close to where we want:  #370911 - #370588 = 323 petitions * 3 images/petition = 969 images; we are starting on image 11, so we want to go to image 980.  The math will frequently be off, since some records may be missing pages or have additional pages, or may have been filmed more than once.

You can do the math from where you end up to get closer, or simply browse to the desired image.  In my case, images 1167-1169 ( ) contain the petition that I was looking for.

Hope this helps you (and others) in your search.

David Oseas

KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York  
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles

Re: German ancestry of my Galician or Ukrainian ancestors?

Rachel Unkefer

I can't speak to strong or weak matches at Ancestry, but at FTDNA, 100 cM match can be a person who matches multiple ancestors hundreds of years ago, but none in a recent timeframe. The length of the longest segments are as important as the total matching cM. Unfortunately, Ancestry doesn't give us a chromosome browser, so it's difficult to assess these matches.

Speaking as someone who has done extensive research on German Jewish families, both DNA and documents, I can cite the Bacharach family who was likely in Frankfurt or Worms in the 13th century and by the 17th-18th century had several branches in Lithuania, Belarus, Czechia, etc. While the family has an origin in Germany, and many branches were still there into the 20th century, there were also family members who spent the past 400 years in Eastern Europe and whose descendants don't necessarily consider themselves German-Jewish, even though they still carry a German surname.

One pair of such relatives share 131 cM, even though their common Bacharach ancestor has to have lived prior to 1600. Their largest shared segment is only about 10 cM. The total 131 cM most likely is a compounding of multiple relatives who lived in the Middle Ages, most likely in Germany. There were several population bottlenecks that occurred before large migrations east, so the vast majority of Jews in Eastern Europe in the 18th-20th centuries were descended from a very small number of Jews who survived those bottleneck events in Germany and eventually moved eastward. All those shared DNA segments from a small number of ancestors compound to look like the common ancestors are much more recent.

If you do share long cM runs with any of the unexpected Germans, consider a possible NPE in more recent generations. Maybe you do have a German ancestor who was not the spouse of your female ancestor from Ukraine or wherever and they met each other in New York or somewhere outside of Europe. Or there could have been a traveling rabbi or merchant from Germany visiting your ancestor's village or something along those lines. I would only look at this explanation if you have long matching segments, which you can't really tell at Ancestry.

Re: Include Family Name in Subject


This has been our format for years, whether it is officially in the guidelines or not.  It helps the poster as well as those who get digests or individual posts determine whether to participate in a particular issue.
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Re: Include Family Name in Subject

Marjorie Geiser

Excellent point, JB. Perhaps it should be. Along with including your name, where you're from, and names of who you're researching.

However, this is more for those posting, asking for help or looking for others searching the same name.

Margie Geiser
Arizona, USA


Re: Tarnobrzeg #galicia

Joan Edelstein

I’m relatively new to the email list and finally figured out how to reply to the group. My maternal grandmother was from Tarnobrzeg and immigrated here when she was 5 in 1900. When I went to the Lauder Foundation in Warsaw, I was able to get a lot of information on her family. I also visited there with my daughter around 15 years ago.
In any case, of the family who remained in Tarnobrzeg, there were no known survivors of the Holocaust. I would very much like to do some more research to see if I can find more about them and their families. Any suggestions you have of groups to join, Facebook pages, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

I am also interested in others whose families were from Tarnobrzeg to see if there are any connections.

Thanks so much! Joan

Re name Marks - US immigration records in early 19th century

Jeff Miller

I’ve read recently about people who were originally Markowitz or other variations changed their name to Marks.

Consider that records may exist under such an original name.

Best regards,

Jeff Miller

Re: #JewishGenNews

S&D Hirschhorn <sdh2381@...>

 I would like to post the information that my husband Donald Hirschhorn has passed away.  Many JewishGen members may remember him as a long time worker for JewishGen.  He and I did the JewishGen Mall for several years which was a means to provide some income for JewishGen.
Thank you,
Sandra Hirschhorn
Monroe Township, NJ
Researching: LITWIN,Lodz,Poland;  BRUMER, Bialystok, Poland; KARPAY, Berezino, Minsk Gubernia,
Belarus; RAFALCHIK, Berezino, Belarus
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 3:19 PM
Subject: [Special] [] #JewishGenNews

Dear JewishGen Community,

I’m pleased to report that we have been successful in improving the REPLY feature for members who receive the JewishGen Discussion Group in Digest mode or as individual messages. You will notice that after the end of each message, you are now offered the option to “Reply to Sender” or “Reply to Group”.

Here is an example of what now appears below each message.

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The new platform for our main Discussion Group has provided us with a number of advantages, such as eliminating the need for plain text, which means we can post and reply to messages from remote devices as well as computers; adding the ability to attach images; accommodating text that includes diacritics from other alphabets; and adding #hashtags to index keywords and organize messages by topic.

We are aware, however, that the new platform also presents limitations. Some of you have pointed out the difficulty in following the thread of a conversation via email, since replies are not connected to the original post. Others have voiced concerns that the “rules” have become lax, resulting in vague subject lines, unsigned postings, and surnames not in all caps.

As a result of this feedback, we have created an open forum for JewishGen Members to discuss their experiences with the group, share ideas for promoting and customizing content areas, and offer various techniques for utilizing the JewishGen Discussion Group. In addition, we are creating a helpful knowledge base that contains a collection of tutorial and reference information for group members. You can easily subscribe to the Members Forum by following this link: Please note: you will need to use the JewishGen Discussion Group username/password (not the regular JewishGen ID#/password). We are getting closer to having an integration with just one username and password, but we are not there yet.

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We are reviewing ways to improve the Discussion Group and will report back to you soon regarding additional changes.

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Re: ViewMate translation request -Hebrew

Karen Zale

Thank you to all the people who helped me with the translation.  Jewishgen has an amazing group of people always willing to help one another.

Karen Zale
Plano, TX

GREENBERG - Pultusk, Wyszkow
SORKIN - Kapustino, Rogachev

US immigration records in early 19th century #usa


I've been trying to identify where my family came from in Russia for some time without much luck (I am British and the only information I can find is an 1861 census record for my ancestor - Raphael Marks - where his birthplace is stated as being 'Russia' [probably either 1816 or 1826]). No immigration records are available for Raphael which have been able to get me closer to identifying where in Russia he came from.

Following feedback from this group last month, I've looked into my DNA connections in more detail. Interestingly, some of those who match me, my grandfather and my grandfather's second cousin (via the Mark's line) match with a number of people who have a US lady called Phoebe Marks in their trees. It seems that her ancestor - Nathan Marks - was also from Russia (born 1838 and emigrated to New York via the UK in 1867). I'm thinking that if I can work out where Nathan came from, it might narrow down the search for where Raphael came from too (as they may well be brothers/cousins/uncle-nephew/etc).

From previous guidance on here, it sounds like the US immigration records for Nathan might provide me with a clue about where he (and maybe also Raphael) came from. I'm not finding detailed records on Ancestry through - just index-type records. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Re: 19th century medical condition

Elise Cundiff

I really doubt that saralasin would have been known or available back then, it is a medication that affects complex biochemistry that was also unknown.  And even though google brings up Achalasia when "saralasis" is searched, I don't see that word itself ever, so I think it is just an attempt to find a likely substitute.  

Gesher Galicia at the Center for Jewish History in Lower Manhattan #galicia

Steven Turner

There was a large turnout last night for Gesher Galicia Vice President Dr. Andrew Zalewski's fascinating presentation entitled, "Jewish Students, Medical Globetrotters, and Persevering Women". The presentation was recorded and we will keep you posted when the link is available to view. The NY contingent of the Gesher Galicia Board (President, Dr. Steven Turner, Treasurer, Charlie Katz and Director Renee Steinig) were thrilled to attend.

Follow us on facebook and in the message forums to hear about future events.

Dr. Steven S. Turner
Gesher Galicia

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