Terry,

Bravo, bravo, bravo! This is indeed a massive job, handled magnificently!
Thanks to you and all of your team, as well as the JewishGen team!
There will be many who will be deeply grateful for all of your very
hard work!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG

Terry Lasky wrote:

Terry,

Bravo, bravo, bravo! This is indeed a massive job, handled magnificently!
Thanks to you and all of your team, as well as the JewishGen team!
There will be many who will be deeply grateful for all of your very
hard work!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG

Terry Lasky wrote:

Hi;

I recently dug up (figuratively) some birth certificates and discovered that
Uncle Eddie was "Willie" on his birth certificate and that Aunt Bessie was
"Lizzie". I have encountered this many times before, as I'm sure most of you
have.

But I started wondering about the mechanics of these name changes. Could
Willie just start calling himself Edward without going through a legal name
change, without any repercussion for the rest of his life? He was Edward on
his marriage certificate and death certificate and Soc. Security. Could one
just decide they liked a different first name and to then use it without any
impact >from the fact that a different name was on his or her birth
certificate?

Despite many, many such seemingly "I like this name better" changes, I've
only encountered one relative who went through the formality of changing his
first name legally, out of maybe 50+ name changes.

Does anyone have any insight into this practice?

Thanks.

Sam


Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@...

Hi;

I recently dug up (figuratively) some birth certificates and discovered that
Uncle Eddie was "Willie" on his birth certificate and that Aunt Bessie was
"Lizzie". I have encountered this many times before, as I'm sure most of you
have.

But I started wondering about the mechanics of these name changes. Could
Willie just start calling himself Edward without going through a legal name
change, without any repercussion for the rest of his life? He was Edward on
his marriage certificate and death certificate and Soc. Security. Could one
just decide they liked a different first name and to then use it without any
impact >from the fact that a different name was on his or her birth
certificate?

Despite many, many such seemingly "I like this name better" changes, I've
only encountered one relative who went through the formality of changing his
first name legally, out of maybe 50+ name changes.

Does anyone have any insight into this practice?

Thanks.

Sam


Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@...

The next meeting of the Jewish Genealogical Society of
New York will take place on Sunday, September 18th at
2 pm, at the Center for Jewish History located in
Manhattan at 15 West 16th Street (between 5th and 6th
Avenues). Our speaker is Daniel Burns, a Master’s
degree candidate at Jagiellonian University in Krakow,
Poland. His presentation is entitled “Verifying
Testimony of an Auschwitz Death Camp Survivor.” He
will discuss his research methods for documenting and
verifying Holocaust testimony, which will provide
valuable lessons for doing genealogical research.

The Center Genealogy Institute will be open on
September 18th >from 12:30 to 2:00 (for those attending
the JGSNY meeting) for networking with other
researchers and access to CGI resource materials and
computers.

And remember, the 2006 IAJGS Conference will be held
in New York >from August 13th to August 18th. Visit our
website at www.jgsny2006.org

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
JGSNY Program Vice President

The next meeting of the Jewish Genealogical Society of
New York will take place on Sunday, September 18th at
2 pm, at the Center for Jewish History located in
Manhattan at 15 West 16th Street (between 5th and 6th
Avenues). Our speaker is Daniel Burns, a Master’s
degree candidate at Jagiellonian University in Krakow,
Poland. His presentation is entitled “Verifying
Testimony of an Auschwitz Death Camp Survivor.” He
will discuss his research methods for documenting and
verifying Holocaust testimony, which will provide
valuable lessons for doing genealogical research.

The Center Genealogy Institute will be open on
September 18th >from 12:30 to 2:00 (for those attending
the JGSNY meeting) for networking with other
researchers and access to CGI resource materials and
computers.

And remember, the 2006 IAJGS Conference will be held
in New York >from August 13th to August 18th. Visit our
website at www.jgsny2006.org

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
JGSNY Program Vice President

Jewish Genealogical Society, Palm Beach County, Inc., Florida
www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org
***************
Celebrating our Fifteenth Anniversary Year serving the Jewish genealogical
community of Palm Beach County with an exciting series of programs planned
for the 2005-2006 season.

Opening meeting: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - South County Civic Center,
16700 Jog Road, Delray Beach.

Please note: to accommodate speakers and holidays, several changes have been
made in our Calendar for October and February. All other monthly meetings
will be held as usual on the second Wednesday of the month - September
through May at the South County Civic Center.

The 2nd Annual MiniConference/Workshop will be held at the Levis JCC Campus,
Boca Raton; the Annual Luncheon will be held at the Boca Raton Marriott
Hotel.

Meeting Calendar: 2005-2006

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - Program: Short Reports by Members who
attended the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
Conference; Preserving your documents and photos.Guest Speaker: Maryann
Heide

Sunday, October 23 - Meeting held at the Levis J.C.C., Sandler Center,
Beifield Auditorium 9 AM: Coffee AND...
Program: 10 AM - 12 Noon
Guest Speaker: Genealogist Ron Arons - "How to Find Anyone or Anything on
the Internet [almost]"

Wednesday, November 9 - JGSPBCI members Sandra and Don Hirschhorn: "How to
Plan a Family Reunion"

Wednesday, December 14 - Guest Speaker: Mark Halpern, President of JGS of
Greater Philadelphia; Director and Coordinator of Jewish Records Indexing
Poland

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - Election of Officers
Guest Speaker: Michael Karsen, Board Member of JGS Illinois and
Genealogical Speakers Guild

Sunday, January 29 - 11 AM - 15th Anniversary Luncheon
Guest Speaker, back by popular demand: Stephen Morse

Wednesday, February 8 - TBA

Wednesday, February 22 - 2nd Annual All Day MiniConference/Workshop
[Lecturers: TBA]
8:30 AM - 5PM - Kosher lunch served

Wednesday, March 8 - TBA - 1PM

Wednesday,April 26 - S.O.S - Share our Successes - 1PM

Wednesday, May 10 - TBA - 1PM

Scheduled SIG meetings meet 11:30 AM in School Room, South County Civic
Center
Members free admission.
Guests are welcome. $5.00 entry fee
Brick Wall sessions begin at 12:30 PM

Revised and updated 191 page 6th Edition 2005 Beginners and Intermediates
Genealogical Workbook now available.Contact curiousyl@... for
information on cost [and S&H if applicable]. Table of Contents covers 36
research topics.

Dennis Rice, President drtigers@...

Jewish Genealogical Society, Palm Beach County, Inc., Florida
www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org
***************
Celebrating our Fifteenth Anniversary Year serving the Jewish genealogical
community of Palm Beach County with an exciting series of programs planned
for the 2005-2006 season.

Opening meeting: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - South County Civic Center,
16700 Jog Road, Delray Beach.

Please note: to accommodate speakers and holidays, several changes have been
made in our Calendar for October and February. All other monthly meetings
will be held as usual on the second Wednesday of the month - September
through May at the South County Civic Center.

The 2nd Annual MiniConference/Workshop will be held at the Levis JCC Campus,
Boca Raton; the Annual Luncheon will be held at the Boca Raton Marriott
Hotel.

Meeting Calendar: 2005-2006

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - Program: Short Reports by Members who
attended the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
Conference; Preserving your documents and photos.Guest Speaker: Maryann
Heide

Sunday, October 23 - Meeting held at the Levis J.C.C., Sandler Center,
Beifield Auditorium 9 AM: Coffee AND...
Program: 10 AM - 12 Noon
Guest Speaker: Genealogist Ron Arons - "How to Find Anyone or Anything on
the Internet [almost]"

Wednesday, November 9 - JGSPBCI members Sandra and Don Hirschhorn: "How to
Plan a Family Reunion"

Wednesday, December 14 - Guest Speaker: Mark Halpern, President of JGS of
Greater Philadelphia; Director and Coordinator of Jewish Records Indexing
Poland

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - Election of Officers
Guest Speaker: Michael Karsen, Board Member of JGS Illinois and
Genealogical Speakers Guild

Sunday, January 29 - 11 AM - 15th Anniversary Luncheon
Guest Speaker, back by popular demand: Stephen Morse

Wednesday, February 8 - TBA

Wednesday, February 22 - 2nd Annual All Day MiniConference/Workshop
[Lecturers: TBA]
8:30 AM - 5PM - Kosher lunch served

Wednesday, March 8 - TBA - 1PM

Wednesday,April 26 - S.O.S - Share our Successes - 1PM

Wednesday, May 10 - TBA - 1PM

Scheduled SIG meetings meet 11:30 AM in School Room, South County Civic
Center
Members free admission.
Guests are welcome. $5.00 entry fee
Brick Wall sessions begin at 12:30 PM

Revised and updated 191 page 6th Edition 2005 Beginners and Intermediates
Genealogical Workbook now available.Contact curiousyl@... for
information on cost [and S&H if applicable]. Table of Contents covers 36
research topics.

Dennis Rice, President drtigers@...

Scott Leo wrote today: Last week Celia Male was kind
enough to begin researching my AUERBACH and
GOLDSCHMIDT surnames in the 1793 census of Jews in
Bohemia. In what appears to be breakthrough of sorts
for me, I was very pleased to receive in the mail
today the [U.S.] death certificate for my gt-gt
grandfather, Edward GOLDSCHMIDT [1848-1917], including
his and his parents' town of birth in Bohemia.... "New
Zetlich, Austria".

Jo Feitler >from Chicago has today added some
additional facts to our knowledge on this village nr
Tachau and Scott, you have now saved me a lot of work.

I feel vindicated in my conclusion last week when I
wrote about the 4 AUERBACH families of 1793 Bohemia -
three of which came >from the Pilsner Kreis:
"Statistically, we might assume that Fanny AUERBACH
[Scott's gtgtgt grandmother married to Abraham
GOLDSCHMIDT] came >from the Schonwald families, Pilsner
Kreis - but that needs to be verified with documentary
evidence. In the next posting, I will concentrate on
GOLDSCHMIDT and see if there is any correlation
between the names and the above locations."

I was in the middle of correlating GOLDSCHMIDT [and
variants] with AUERBACH and had written: In the
previous posting*, I investigated AUERBACH families in
Bohemia to try and pinpoint the possible places
Scott's gtgtgt-grandmother Fanny AUERBACH might have
come from. In the whole of Bohemia excluding Prague,
there were only 4 AUERBACH families.

Now it is the turn of his gtgtgt-grandfather's family
- the GOLDSCHMIED of Bohemia. Where could they have
come from? Eduard GOLDSCHMIED married in NY in 1878
and he was listed as having been born in Bohemia - his
father may who have been born as early as 1820, was
named Abraham GOLDSCHMIED and his father in turn, may
with luck, be listed in the 1793 census as a baby."

So now, finally here is the exciting news. In Gut Neu
Zetlitz [Nove Sedliste] living in Dorf Neuzetlitz,
Pilsner Kreis [cf AUERBACH], we find two Goldschmied
families:

Moises a leather merchant, living in House No 2 with
wife Rachel, sons [in birth order] Israel, Abraham and
Joachim.

In another part of the house lives David, [probably
his brother or cousin] a fleece and cloth merchant,
with wife Rebcka [sic] and son Isak.

One of the GOLDSCHMIED boys listed above [or an as yet
unborn son] must have been the father of Abraham
GOLDSCHMIED. Abraham listed in the 1793 census, could
I suppose also have fathered a son in his very old
age! All that would have to be checked in the vital records
in Prague.

In 1793, there were 30 houses in Dorf Neuzetlitz,
inhabited by 31 Jewish families, all Schutzjuden. The
connection with Tachau, which Jo Feitler mentioned, is
substantianted by two items found in the small print
of the census and by cross-referencing: Davit [sic]
ASCHERER in 1793 is about to leave Neu Zetlitz to
marry in Tachau. The tobacco concessioner of Tachau,
Joachim NADTLER, has a large family - four sons and
two daughters. His Schutz however is >from Neu Zetlitz,
where he appears in the census as Joachim ADLER.

I can already see Scott standing outside House No 2,
Neu Zetlitz, if it still exists! How exciting.

Celia Male [U.K.]

* NB: the previous two postings of this thread were
entitled: Re: [austriaczech] Introduction
(GOLDSCHMIDT, AUERBACH)

Scott Leo wrote today: Last week Celia Male was kind
enough to begin researching my AUERBACH and
GOLDSCHMIDT surnames in the 1793 census of Jews in
Bohemia. In what appears to be breakthrough of sorts
for me, I was very pleased to receive in the mail
today the [U.S.] death certificate for my gt-gt
grandfather, Edward GOLDSCHMIDT [1848-1917], including
his and his parents' town of birth in Bohemia.... "New
Zetlich, Austria".

Jo Feitler >from Chicago has today added some
additional facts to our knowledge on this village nr
Tachau and Scott, you have now saved me a lot of work.

I feel vindicated in my conclusion last week when I
wrote about the 4 AUERBACH families of 1793 Bohemia -
three of which came >from the Pilsner Kreis:
"Statistically, we might assume that Fanny AUERBACH
[Scott's gtgtgt grandmother married to Abraham
GOLDSCHMIDT] came >from the Schonwald families, Pilsner
Kreis - but that needs to be verified with documentary
evidence. In the next posting, I will concentrate on
GOLDSCHMIDT and see if there is any correlation
between the names and the above locations."

I was in the middle of correlating GOLDSCHMIDT [and
variants] with AUERBACH and had written: In the
previous posting*, I investigated AUERBACH families in
Bohemia to try and pinpoint the possible places
Scott's gtgtgt-grandmother Fanny AUERBACH might have
come from. In the whole of Bohemia excluding Prague,
there were only 4 AUERBACH families.

Now it is the turn of his gtgtgt-grandfather's family
- the GOLDSCHMIED of Bohemia. Where could they have
come from? Eduard GOLDSCHMIED married in NY in 1878
and he was listed as having been born in Bohemia - his
father may who have been born as early as 1820, was
named Abraham GOLDSCHMIED and his father in turn, may
with luck, be listed in the 1793 census as a baby."

So now, finally here is the exciting news. In Gut Neu
Zetlitz [Nove Sedliste] living in Dorf Neuzetlitz,
Pilsner Kreis [cf AUERBACH], we find two Goldschmied
families:

Moises a leather merchant, living in House No 2 with
wife Rachel, sons [in birth order] Israel, Abraham and
Joachim.

In another part of the house lives David, [probably
his brother or cousin] a fleece and cloth merchant,
with wife Rebcka [sic] and son Isak.

One of the GOLDSCHMIED boys listed above [or an as yet
unborn son] must have been the father of Abraham
GOLDSCHMIED. Abraham listed in the 1793 census, could
I suppose also have fathered a son in his very old
age! All that would have to be checked in the vital records
in Prague.

In 1793, there were 30 houses in Dorf Neuzetlitz,
inhabited by 31 Jewish families, all Schutzjuden. The
connection with Tachau, which Jo Feitler mentioned, is
substantianted by two items found in the small print
of the census and by cross-referencing: Davit [sic]
ASCHERER in 1793 is about to leave Neu Zetlitz to
marry in Tachau. The tobacco concessioner of Tachau,
Joachim NADTLER, has a large family - four sons and
two daughters. His Schutz however is >from Neu Zetlitz,
where he appears in the census as Joachim ADLER.

I can already see Scott standing outside House No 2,
Neu Zetlitz, if it still exists! How exciting.

Celia Male [U.K.]

* NB: the previous two postings of this thread were
entitled: Re: [austriaczech] Introduction
(GOLDSCHMIDT, AUERBACH)

Terry,

Bravo, bravo, bravo! This is indeed a massive job, handled magnificently!
Thanks to you and all of your team, as well as the JewishGen team!
There will be many who will be deeply grateful for all of your very
hard work!

Rosanne Leeson and Paula Zieselman
Co-Coordinators
ROM-SIG

Terry Lasky wrote:

Terry,

Bravo, bravo, bravo! This is indeed a massive job, handled magnificently!
Thanks to you and all of your team, as well as the JewishGen team!
There will be many who will be deeply grateful for all of your very
hard work!

Rosanne Leeson and Paula Zieselman
Co-Coordinators
ROM-SIG

Terry Lasky wrote:

Seelig GRONEMANN and wife Adeline geb. Israelski, had seven children born in
Bruss, Westpreussen between 1879 and 1894. Most moved to Berlin. Several
perished in the Holocaust.

I'm seeking the descendants of Theodor, Rudolf-Robert, Eduard, Salli,
Valeria, Rosa and Albert Groneman.

Jim Bennett Haifa <bennett@...>

Seelig GRONEMANN and wife Adeline geb. Israelski, had seven children born in
Bruss, Westpreussen between 1879 and 1894. Most moved to Berlin. Several
perished in the Holocaust.

I'm seeking the descendants of Theodor, Rudolf-Robert, Eduard, Salli,
Valeria, Rosa and Albert Groneman.

Jim Bennett Haifa <bennett@...>

Dear Litvak/SIGers,

We are delighted to announce a Los Angeles screening of our documentary
My Grandfather's House at the Skirball Center in Los Angeles on Monday
night, September 19th at 7pm....sponsored by the LA Jewish Genealogical
Society. We hope Litvak/SIGers in the area can join us.

Below is the posting >from the LAJGS.------

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Los Angeles presents the Los Angeles
premiere of the film:

"My Grandfather's House: The Journey Home"

Monday, September 19th, 7:00 PM
Skirball Cultural Center, Magnin Auditorium
2701 North Sepulveda Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90049

This personal documentary follows Eileen Douglas's determined search to
find her grandfather's house in Lithuania--the home he lived in and left
behind in 1911 when he fled, at 16, >from Kovno to America. Four decades
after his death, with only fragments to guide the way, the documentary
is Douglas's attempt to lift the veil of darkness and discover "where
it all began."

PROGRAM:

Before the screening, filmmaker Eileen Douglas will discuss the making of
the documentary, and, in particular, what compelled this personal quest.
The film will be followed by a Q & A with Douglas, co-producer/director
Ron Steinman, and Douglas' daughter Rachel Zients, of Los Angeles, who
also appears in the documentary.

SYNOPSIS:

Eileen travels >from New York City to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in
Washington, to her mother's attic in Syracuse, to the homes of relatives,
and, finally, with her daughter at her side, to the block in Kovno where
her grandfather once lived. Along the way she unexpectedly unlocks the
mystery of stories he never told, discovers the fate of family members
lost in the war, learns of the glory that once was Lithuanian Jewry,
finds living relatives missing for years in Siberia, and resurrects a
family shattered by the traumas of the 20th Century.

Our meetings are open to the public. Free of charge to JGSLA members, $5
charge for guests.

For further information, visit JGSLA's web site at:

http://www.jgsla.org

or contact:

Pamela Weisberger
1st V.P. Programs, JGSLA
pweisberger@...

Dear Litvak/SIGers,

We are delighted to announce a Los Angeles screening of our documentary
My Grandfather's House at the Skirball Center in Los Angeles on Monday
night, September 19th at 7pm....sponsored by the LA Jewish Genealogical
Society. We hope Litvak/SIGers in the area can join us.

Below is the posting >from the LAJGS.------

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Los Angeles presents the Los Angeles
premiere of the film:

"My Grandfather's House: The Journey Home"

Monday, September 19th, 7:00 PM
Skirball Cultural Center, Magnin Auditorium
2701 North Sepulveda Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90049

This personal documentary follows Eileen Douglas's determined search to
find her grandfather's house in Lithuania--the home he lived in and left
behind in 1911 when he fled, at 16, >from Kovno to America. Four decades
after his death, with only fragments to guide the way, the documentary
is Douglas's attempt to lift the veil of darkness and discover "where
it all began."

PROGRAM:

Before the screening, filmmaker Eileen Douglas will discuss the making of
the documentary, and, in particular, what compelled this personal quest.
The film will be followed by a Q & A with Douglas, co-producer/director
Ron Steinman, and Douglas' daughter Rachel Zients, of Los Angeles, who
also appears in the documentary.

SYNOPSIS:

Eileen travels >from New York City to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in
Washington, to her mother's attic in Syracuse, to the homes of relatives,
and, finally, with her daughter at her side, to the block in Kovno where
her grandfather once lived. Along the way she unexpectedly unlocks the
mystery of stories he never told, discovers the fate of family members
lost in the war, learns of the glory that once was Lithuanian Jewry,
finds living relatives missing for years in Siberia, and resurrects a
family shattered by the traumas of the 20th Century.

Our meetings are open to the public. Free of charge to JGSLA members, $5
charge for guests.

For further information, visit JGSLA's web site at:

http://www.jgsla.org

or contact:

Pamela Weisberger
1st V.P. Programs, JGSLA
pweisberger@...

List members

I will not attempt to explain how I came to be looking for archives in
Marburg in Germany!

However I see that a Colloquium on Jewish Archives=A0
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dde&u=3Dhttp://www.uni-=
marburg.d
e/archivschule/andarch.html&prev=3D/search%3Fq%3Dmarburg%2Barchive%26hl%3=
Den%2
6lr%3D=20
=A0is about to be held there 13 -15 September and a paper given on =
behalf of
the London Beth Din >from which we might learn
=A0http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dde&u=3Dhttp://www.u=
ni-marburg.
de/archivschule/andarch.html&prev=3D/search%3Fq%3Dmarburg%2Barchive%26hl%=
3Den%
26lr%3D =A0described as follows:

=93David Frei (London Beth Din)
Vital Records of British Jews
=A0
The London Beth Din, being the Court of the Chief Rabbi and a division =
of
the United Synagogue has a unique position in Anglo-Jewry, as custodian =
of a
large archive of marriage authorisations and burial registrations =
covering
the majority of Ashkenazi Jews in Britain, over a lengthy period.
=A0
This paper will examine the general history of Jewish genealogical =
records
in Britain and will deal comprehensively with all matters relating to =
such
records. =93

It sounds like a conference for professional archivists at a School of
Archives. Are any members attending? Will they be able to fully report =
to
those of us not able to go?=20

Hazel Dakers, London UK

Researching: NORDEN (London & South Africa); HEIMANN (Luegde, Germany =
and
South Africa); GOLD (Zgierz and Lodz, Poland), BIRNBAUM (Zgierz and =
Lodz,
Poland)

List members

I will not attempt to explain how I came to be looking for archives in
Marburg in Germany!

However I see that a Colloquium on Jewish Archives=A0
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dde&u=3Dhttp://www.uni-=
marburg.d
e/archivschule/andarch.html&prev=3D/search%3Fq%3Dmarburg%2Barchive%26hl%3=
Den%2
6lr%3D=20
=A0is about to be held there 13 -15 September and a paper given on =
behalf of
the London Beth Din >from which we might learn
=A0http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dde&u=3Dhttp://www.u=
ni-marburg.
de/archivschule/andarch.html&prev=3D/search%3Fq%3Dmarburg%2Barchive%26hl%=
3Den%
26lr%3D =A0described as follows:

=93David Frei (London Beth Din)
Vital Records of British Jews
=A0
The London Beth Din, being the Court of the Chief Rabbi and a division =
of
the United Synagogue has a unique position in Anglo-Jewry, as custodian =
of a
large archive of marriage authorisations and burial registrations =
covering
the majority of Ashkenazi Jews in Britain, over a lengthy period.
=A0
This paper will examine the general history of Jewish genealogical =
records
in Britain and will deal comprehensively with all matters relating to =
such
records. =93

It sounds like a conference for professional archivists at a School of
Archives. Are any members attending? Will they be able to fully report =
to
those of us not able to go?=20

Hazel Dakers, London UK

Researching: NORDEN (London & South Africa); HEIMANN (Luegde, Germany =
and
South Africa); GOLD (Zgierz and Lodz, Poland), BIRNBAUM (Zgierz and =
Lodz,
Poland)

Hi, may be to help me find any information about the last Rav. POLLAK of
Oradea (Nagyvarad). He and his wife were victims of Holocaust.
Best regards.
Peter Polyak. e.mail Polyakp@...

Dear John,

I received your email regarding the Weisberg family of Montreal, but my
reply wouldn't go through: jmdiener@....

Steve Orlen
Tucson Az