I assume your friend was born before 1918. In that case he (and a
Galizian or Czech) would have been classified by the security people at the
British Home Office by his nationality at birth, i.e., as "Austrian," and
subjected to the same rules and conditions as an Austrian, i.e., exactly like
a German Jew.

You know, now, that it would have been a safer place, but I doubt your
relative would have believed that at the time with the same full certainty. He
may have gone to France to help relatives escape >from danger under the Nazis.
Portugal was the choice of European Jews who were fleeing to the United
States or to South America.

Michael Bernet, New York
www.mem-Ber.net
(http://www.mem-Ber.net)

Dear Genners:

<Nathen Gabriel wrote: I would like to present the following
list of 140 Shtetls in the 12 Uyezds of Podolia Guberniya as
a POSSIBLY comprehensive list of all (or most) of the
Shtetls of Podolia Guberniya that existed in 1883 ... Please
address any additions or corrections to the entire Ukraine
SIG.>

Correction: in Olgopol Uyezd, shtetl Peschana should be
Peschanka.

Addition: shtetl Kryzhopol is missing.

Eliana AIZIM

from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Searching:
AISEN, AIZEN, AISIN: Yekaterinoslav Gub, Ukraine/
Argentina/ Brazil; GUREVICH: Yekaterinoslav Gub,
Ukraine/ USA; VATNICK, VAITMAN (& var), WHITE:
Podolia Gub, Ukraine/ Toronto, Canada/ Brazil;
AVERBUCH: Podolia Gub, Ukraine/ Brazil.

I assume your friend was born before 1918. In that case he (and a
Galizian or Czech) would have been classified by the security people at the
British Home Office by his nationality at birth, i.e., as "Austrian," and
subjected to the same rules and conditions as an Austrian, i.e., exactly like
a German Jew.

You know, now, that it would have been a safer place, but I doubt your
relative would have believed that at the time with the same full certainty. He
may have gone to France to help relatives escape >from danger under the Nazis.
Portugal was the choice of European Jews who were fleeing to the United
States or to South America.

Michael Bernet, New York
www.mem-Ber.net
(http://www.mem-Ber.net)

Dear Genners:

<Nathen Gabriel wrote: I would like to present the following
list of 140 Shtetls in the 12 Uyezds of Podolia Guberniya as
a POSSIBLY comprehensive list of all (or most) of the
Shtetls of Podolia Guberniya that existed in 1883 ... Please
address any additions or corrections to the entire Ukraine
SIG.>

Correction: in Olgopol Uyezd, shtetl Peschana should be
Peschanka.

Addition: shtetl Kryzhopol is missing.

Eliana AIZIM

from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Searching:
AISEN, AIZEN, AISIN: Yekaterinoslav Gub, Ukraine/
Argentina/ Brazil; GUREVICH: Yekaterinoslav Gub,
Ukraine/ USA; VATNICK, VAITMAN (& var), WHITE:
Podolia Gub, Ukraine/ Toronto, Canada/ Brazil;
AVERBUCH: Podolia Gub, Ukraine/ Brazil.

My American surname is YARUS.

My paternal grandfather supposedly came >from Belaya Tserkov near Kiev in
the Ukraine. He made his way to the US around 1900 landing in
Philadelphia. At least that is what I have been told.

I believe my original family name was Yaroslavsky or Yaruslavsky or
maybe Yaruslovsky.

What original name is most likely? Or perhaps is some other variant more
plausible?

I am a novice genealogists, using primarily the services of
Ancestry.com. I would appreciate suggestions how I might research my
family origins more thoroughly.

Many thanks,
Gary Yarus

My American surname is YARUS.

My paternal grandfather supposedly came >from Belaya Tserkov near Kiev in
the Ukraine. He made his way to the US around 1900 landing in
Philadelphia. At least that is what I have been told.

I believe my original family name was Yaroslavsky or Yaruslavsky or
maybe Yaruslovsky.

What original name is most likely? Or perhaps is some other variant more
plausible?

I am a novice genealogists, using primarily the services of
Ancestry.com. I would appreciate suggestions how I might research my
family origins more thoroughly.

Many thanks,
Gary Yarus

Dear Mr. Gabriel,

Thank you for your time and great effort in simplifying this information for
the rest of us. It has already helped clarify a confusion in my own research.

It would seem there are two "Snitkov"s, but actually, there's only one. An
internal letter "k" marks the difference in the original names. (I have also
exchanged e-mails with one of the authors of "Road to Letichev" on this and the
two together solidify the clarification.)

from your adaptation of the Candle Tax information:

Letichev Uyezd (147.9 miles WSW of Kiev)
8 Shtetls:
Snitkov (0194 males) 4848 2738


Mogilev Podolsk Uyezd (183.4 miles SW of Kiev)
10 Shtetls:
Snitkov (0272 males) 4848 2738


As the two places couldn't possibly have the same coordinates, I looked more
closely at the original names. The shtetl outside Letichev, included in "Road
to Letichev" is actually Snitovskoe, or Snitovka. The town NE of Murovanye
Kurilovtsy in Mogilev District is Snitkovskoe, or Snitkov.

Snitkov (Mogilev) is at the coordinates cited. It was about 1/3 larger in male
population and taxes than Snitovka, which was a very tiny place, as it appears

from the e-mail exchange.

I hope this will help others interested in either of the two towns. And my
ShtetLinks Page on Snitkov (Mogilev District) will be revised soon to account
for ownership and other information that actually pertained to Snitovka.
However, the geographical, religious, family, personalities and memoir
information are all about the 'right' Snitkov - at 4848 2738.

If anyone has further information on this, I for one would be very happy to
read what they have to say.

Michelle Frager, NY
Ukraine/Bess/Romania: TREIGER, SHIKH, GLUZMAN, TUREVSKY
http://shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/snitkov/ShtetLinksSnitkov_Index.htm

--- "N.C. Gabriel" <uy9p1@...> wrote: ---

Dear Members of the Ukraine SIG,

I would like to present the following list of 140
Shtetls in the 12 Uyezds of Podolia Guberniya as a
POSSIBLY comprehensive list of all (or most) of the
Shtetls of Podolia Guberniya that existed in 1883.

My source for the information was the following:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Litin/taxes.html

My source for the Russian spelling of the names of the
Shtetls was the following:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Litin/taxes1883-3.html

I would like to credit Rose Feldman for finding the
document and The Central Archives for the History of
the Jewish People in Jerusalem for preserving it.

The distance >from Kiev refers to the chief town of the
Uyezd (the Uyezds were named after the chief towns).

Using ShtetlSeeker I have identified the various
Shtetls to the best of my ability. Where there are no
geographical co-ordinates I was not able to identify
the Shtetl and I have left the name of those Shtetls
in their adjective form as they appear on the list.

I have included the number of males in each Shtetl who
paid "Box Tax and Candle Tax" for the sake of
comparison.

Dear Mr. Gabriel,

Thank you for your time and great effort in simplifying this information for
the rest of us. It has already helped clarify a confusion in my own research.

It would seem there are two "Snitkov"s, but actually, there's only one. An
internal letter "k" marks the difference in the original names. (I have also
exchanged e-mails with one of the authors of "Road to Letichev" on this and the
two together solidify the clarification.)

from your adaptation of the Candle Tax information:

Letichev Uyezd (147.9 miles WSW of Kiev)
8 Shtetls:
Snitkov (0194 males) 4848 2738


Mogilev Podolsk Uyezd (183.4 miles SW of Kiev)
10 Shtetls:
Snitkov (0272 males) 4848 2738


As the two places couldn't possibly have the same coordinates, I looked more
closely at the original names. The shtetl outside Letichev, included in "Road
to Letichev" is actually Snitovskoe, or Snitovka. The town NE of Murovanye
Kurilovtsy in Mogilev District is Snitkovskoe, or Snitkov.

Snitkov (Mogilev) is at the coordinates cited. It was about 1/3 larger in male
population and taxes than Snitovka, which was a very tiny place, as it appears

from the e-mail exchange.

I hope this will help others interested in either of the two towns. And my
ShtetLinks Page on Snitkov (Mogilev District) will be revised soon to account
for ownership and other information that actually pertained to Snitovka.
However, the geographical, religious, family, personalities and memoir
information are all about the 'right' Snitkov - at 4848 2738.

If anyone has further information on this, I for one would be very happy to
read what they have to say.

Michelle Frager, NY
Ukraine/Bess/Romania: TREIGER, SHIKH, GLUZMAN, TUREVSKY
http://shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/snitkov/ShtetLinksSnitkov_Index.htm

--- "N.C. Gabriel" <uy9p1@...> wrote: ---

Dear Members of the Ukraine SIG,

I would like to present the following list of 140
Shtetls in the 12 Uyezds of Podolia Guberniya as a
POSSIBLY comprehensive list of all (or most) of the
Shtetls of Podolia Guberniya that existed in 1883.

My source for the information was the following:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Litin/taxes.html

My source for the Russian spelling of the names of the
Shtetls was the following:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Litin/taxes1883-3.html

I would like to credit Rose Feldman for finding the
document and The Central Archives for the History of
the Jewish People in Jerusalem for preserving it.

The distance >from Kiev refers to the chief town of the
Uyezd (the Uyezds were named after the chief towns).

Using ShtetlSeeker I have identified the various
Shtetls to the best of my ability. Where there are no
geographical co-ordinates I was not able to identify
the Shtetl and I have left the name of those Shtetls
in their adjective form as they appear on the list.

I have included the number of males in each Shtetl who
paid "Box Tax and Candle Tax" for the sake of
comparison.

In article <003b01c56488$4c7086e0$8cded218@...>,
clea <clea@...> wrote:

I located a naturalization record for Nathan BOCK, the husband to a third
cousin, Clara SCHWARZBAUM. He is selling shoes in Manhattan. On the
naturalization record under the heading "Former Nationality" the words
"Emperor of Germany" appear. I "googled" the name and did not find anything.
Does anyone have a clue? The immigration date given in the 1900 census is
1875. The naturalization record I am referring to is dated 6 Oct 1876 and
may be viewed on a commercial ancestry site.

Immigrated in 1875 and he's still selling shoes? That's impressive!
I somehow doubt he was the Kaiser, though. Probably it should have
said "Empire"...

Robert Israel
israel@...
Vancouver, BC, Canada

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:43:15 UTC, clea@... (clea) opined:

I located a naturalization record for Nathan BOCK, the husband to a third
cousin, Clara SCHWARZBAUM. He is selling shoes in Manhattan. On the
naturalization record under the heading "Former Nationality" the words
"Emperor of Germany" appear. I "googled" the name and did not find anything.
Does anyone have a clue? The immigration date given in the 1900 census is
1875. The naturalization record I am referring to is dated 6 Oct 1876 and
may be viewed on a commercial ancestry site.

Carolyn Lea
Bowling Green, Oh
clea@...

His English wasn't up to snuff; he wanted to write "Empire of Gernamy".

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

In article <003b01c56488$4c7086e0$8cded218@...>,
clea <clea@...> wrote:

I located a naturalization record for Nathan BOCK, the husband to a third
cousin, Clara SCHWARZBAUM. He is selling shoes in Manhattan. On the
naturalization record under the heading "Former Nationality" the words
"Emperor of Germany" appear. I "googled" the name and did not find anything.
Does anyone have a clue? The immigration date given in the 1900 census is
1875. The naturalization record I am referring to is dated 6 Oct 1876 and
may be viewed on a commercial ancestry site.

Immigrated in 1875 and he's still selling shoes? That's impressive!
I somehow doubt he was the Kaiser, though. Probably it should have
said "Empire"...

Robert Israel
israel@...
Vancouver, BC, Canada

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:43:15 UTC, clea@... (clea) opined:

I located a naturalization record for Nathan BOCK, the husband to a third
cousin, Clara SCHWARZBAUM. He is selling shoes in Manhattan. On the
naturalization record under the heading "Former Nationality" the words
"Emperor of Germany" appear. I "googled" the name and did not find anything.
Does anyone have a clue? The immigration date given in the 1900 census is
1875. The naturalization record I am referring to is dated 6 Oct 1876 and
may be viewed on a commercial ancestry site.

Carolyn Lea
Bowling Green, Oh
clea@...

His English wasn't up to snuff; he wanted to write "Empire of Gernamy".

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

Stewart -

The information you received >from Cook County is not correct.
Marriage license records for Cook County go back to 1871.

They are also on microfilm, and available through an LDS
library if you have one near you.

There is an ongoing project to get this data on line -
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/GenealogyMWeb/marrsrch.html

but I didn't find your marriage in there.

These records don't give the parents names though. But, if you
can find it, maybe it will give the name/location of the rabbi who
performed the service.

Lisa
llepore@...

Hi Claire,

May I add my two cents about KENEDY >from Hungary.

Some years ago, here in Jerusalem, I met a lady of Hungarian origin called
KANDY. She told me that many called her KENNEDY or KENEDY because in Hebrew
vowels are not currently used.

Shalom,
Mathilde Tagger
Israel Genealogical Society
Visit: www.isragen.org.il

Hi Claire,

May I add my two cents about KENEDY >from Hungary.

Some years ago, here in Jerusalem, I met a lady of Hungarian origin called
KANDY. She told me that many called her KENNEDY or KENEDY because in Hebrew
vowels are not currently used.

Shalom,
Mathilde Tagger
Israel Genealogical Society
Visit: www.isragen.org.il

Stewart -

The information you received >from Cook County is not correct.
Marriage license records for Cook County go back to 1871.

They are also on microfilm, and available through an LDS
library if you have one near you.

There is an ongoing project to get this data on line -
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/GenealogyMWeb/marrsrch.html

but I didn't find your marriage in there.

These records don't give the parents names though. But, if you
can find it, maybe it will give the name/location of the rabbi who
performed the service.

Lisa
llepore@...

In my research into the connection between my family
and Gustav Mahler, somehow I got information about the
MAHLERs and their connection to the LOEBLs.

This may be long, but maybe someone has some
information.

- Gustav Mahler, 1860-1902, is the son of Bernard
Mahler and Marrie HERRMANN. Initially I thought the
connection to my family is via Marrie HERRMANN since
this is also my last name (>from the same area).
- Bernard MAHLER, 1827-1889, born in Lipnice, same as
some of my family. He has one brother called Marek
(Marcus?), born 1833 in Kaliste.
- Marek MAHLER has a son, Emil, born 1866 in
Bahnbeamter. He marries Marta Koerbel. Marta is the
great-grandmother of Madeleine ALBRIGHT.
- Marek has another son, Beno MAHLER, born 1882 in
Zatec/Saaz, where most of my family is from. Died in
1912.
- Beno marries Margareta MENDL born 1889.
- Magareta is the daughter of Karl MENDL of Teplice
and Berta Glaser.
- Berta Glaser is the daughter of Anna LOEBL from
Zatec/Saaz. Anna LOEBL is the daughter of Jakob LOEBL.

The LOEBL(s) are all over my family tree, many of them
are >from Zatec/Saaz. I have Jakob and Anna LOEBL in my
family tree, but they are different people. I also
have MAHLER in my family tree: Jakob LOEBL has a
daughter, name unknown, who marries a MAHLER. But it
cannot be the same Jakob and Anna >from the above
because these are >from another (younger) generation.

Anybody has any information about the LOEBLs and
MAHLERs?

Ron HERRMANN, Bedminster, NJ 07921
Researching: HERRMANN, ROBITSCHECK, LOEBL, LOWENSTEIN,
REIN, ABELES >from various places in Bohemia.
REICHENBACH, ROGOWYKAMIEN, RAIZMAN, SPECTOR from
around Siedlce, Poland.

In my research into the connection between my family
and Gustav Mahler, somehow I got information about the
MAHLERs and their connection to the LOEBLs.

This may be long, but maybe someone has some
information.

- Gustav Mahler, 1860-1902, is the son of Bernard
Mahler and Marrie HERRMANN. Initially I thought the
connection to my family is via Marrie HERRMANN since
this is also my last name (>from the same area).
- Bernard MAHLER, 1827-1889, born in Lipnice, same as
some of my family. He has one brother called Marek
(Marcus?), born 1833 in Kaliste.
- Marek MAHLER has a son, Emil, born 1866 in
Bahnbeamter. He marries Marta Koerbel. Marta is the
great-grandmother of Madeleine ALBRIGHT.
- Marek has another son, Beno MAHLER, born 1882 in
Zatec/Saaz, where most of my family is from. Died in
1912.
- Beno marries Margareta MENDL born 1889.
- Magareta is the daughter of Karl MENDL of Teplice
and Berta Glaser.
- Berta Glaser is the daughter of Anna LOEBL from
Zatec/Saaz. Anna LOEBL is the daughter of Jakob LOEBL.

The LOEBL(s) are all over my family tree, many of them
are >from Zatec/Saaz. I have Jakob and Anna LOEBL in my
family tree, but they are different people. I also
have MAHLER in my family tree: Jakob LOEBL has a
daughter, name unknown, who marries a MAHLER. But it
cannot be the same Jakob and Anna >from the above
because these are >from another (younger) generation.

Anybody has any information about the LOEBLs and
MAHLERs?

Ron HERRMANN, Bedminster, NJ 07921
Researching: HERRMANN, ROBITSCHECK, LOEBL, LOWENSTEIN,
REIN, ABELES >from various places in Bohemia.
REICHENBACH, ROGOWYKAMIEN, RAIZMAN, SPECTOR from
around Siedlce, Poland.

Thanks for the answer, it was good information to have, but what I meant by
civil registration is at what point did the civil authority assume
responsibility for keeping birth, marriage and death records, as opposed to
this being done by the Rabbi's and Priests.

What happened in the case of those who were not members of sects?

Thanks

Peter Bakos

Hi listers,

Where may I find vital records for Trieste, Austria
circa 1860?

Also, where may I find vital records for Carinthia and
Styria, ca. 1830?

Lastly, could someone tell me what Ports, other than
Fiume, were available in that area in the mid 1800s?

Thanks much.
Dora M Donis-Kestler

Searching KESTLER and SCHWARZ