Date   

Re: Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #austria-czech

Doug Cohen
 

my understanding is that the law was enforced; however, Jews married by
rabbis "according to the laws of Moses and the custom of Israel", and not
according to Austro-Hungarian law. The children were considered
illegitimate by the authorities, and the Jews didn't care.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
DMC@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lachaus" <lachaus@...>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:53 AM
Subject: [h-sig] Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire


Ernst Pawel writes in "The nightmare of reason, a life of Franz Kafka",
Collins Harvill, p. 4, that "a 1789 degree promulgated to curb the growth
of the Jewish population barred any but the oldest son of Jewish parents
obtaining a marriage license". The constitution that followed the 1848
revolution brought an end to this discrimination. The decree was very
restrictive - Kafka's father married late because he had a stepbrother
older
by a year. Could someone explain whether the decree applied to the whole
of
the Habsburg empire; if it was strictly enforced; if there were ways for
getting round (maybe by settling in another area; marrying without a
license; registering children under someone else's name - hence
implications
for genealogical research).

Many thanks.
Paula Hauser
Searching:
Budapest: HAUSER, WEINER, HOROWITZ, ROTHSTEIN, SOMMER, RUBINSTEIN
Budapest, Brasso: PETER, FISCH


Re: Jewish Records in Church Parish Registers #hungary

Adina Michelsohn <mapleleafpq@...>
 

Hello again, and thank you to my fellow SIGGERS for
their quick responses.
The Pusztamonostor Jewish vital records I'm looking
for are >from Jasz-Nagy-Kun-Szolnok megye. Robert Neu
suggested I check out the 1877 gazeteer. How do I
access that? Is it available on the net?

Adina Michelsohn
Baltimore, Maryland


The name LEVI in Hungary #hungary

NaorMichael@...
 

Dear George, dear H-SIGers,

the name LEVI in this pronounciation is common especially in sephardic
communities. Please bear in mind that the dominant language in central Europe,
including large parts of Hungary until WWII was German. The name LEVI appears as
LOEWY.
Best regards,

Michael Naor


Searching for PFEFFER Budapest #hungary

NaorMichael@...
 

Dear H-Siggers,

my ggf was Reb Mojshe PFEFFER, who was teaching at the "Schas Chewre" in the
orthodox synagogue in Budapest until about 1940. He survived the Shoa by
hiding in Budapest and right after the war he was elected Rabbi of Budapest,
which he served until his death 1946 or 1947. On his tombstone in the orthodox
cemetery of Budapest, which I recently visited, there is no mention of his
place or time of birth. He may have been born in Nagyvarad (Grosswardajn). His
father was Chajim and the mother was Chaja Ettl. His wife was Hermine (Mirel)
b. Gottlieb (Juda) GRUENSFELD >from Bratislava (Pressburg). Does anybody know
anything more about him? Are there any (rabbinical) writings by him?
His son Arpi PFEFFER with his wife as well as his daughter Erzsebet
(Elizabeth) married to Hermann (Michael Zwi) GRUENSFELD were perished in the Shoa.
Does anybody have more information about them?
I will be grateful for any hints,

Yours,
Michael Naor
Duesseldorf, Germany


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Jewish Records in Church Parish Registers #hungary

Adina Michelsohn <mapleleafpq@...>
 

Hello again, and thank you to my fellow SIGGERS for
their quick responses.
The Pusztamonostor Jewish vital records I'm looking
for are >from Jasz-Nagy-Kun-Szolnok megye. Robert Neu
suggested I check out the 1877 gazeteer. How do I
access that? Is it available on the net?

Adina Michelsohn
Baltimore, Maryland


Hungary SIG #Hungary The name LEVI in Hungary #hungary

NaorMichael@...
 

Dear George, dear H-SIGers,

the name LEVI in this pronounciation is common especially in sephardic
communities. Please bear in mind that the dominant language in central Europe,
including large parts of Hungary until WWII was German. The name LEVI appears as
LOEWY.
Best regards,

Michael Naor


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

Doug Cohen
 

my understanding is that the law was enforced; however, Jews married by
rabbis "according to the laws of Moses and the custom of Israel", and not
according to Austro-Hungarian law. The children were considered
illegitimate by the authorities, and the Jews didn't care.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
DMC@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lachaus" <lachaus@...>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:53 AM
Subject: [h-sig] Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire


Ernst Pawel writes in "The nightmare of reason, a life of Franz Kafka",
Collins Harvill, p. 4, that "a 1789 degree promulgated to curb the growth
of the Jewish population barred any but the oldest son of Jewish parents
obtaining a marriage license". The constitution that followed the 1848
revolution brought an end to this discrimination. The decree was very
restrictive - Kafka's father married late because he had a stepbrother
older
by a year. Could someone explain whether the decree applied to the whole
of
the Habsburg empire; if it was strictly enforced; if there were ways for
getting round (maybe by settling in another area; marrying without a
license; registering children under someone else's name - hence
implications
for genealogical research).

Many thanks.
Paula Hauser
Searching:
Budapest: HAUSER, WEINER, HOROWITZ, ROTHSTEIN, SOMMER, RUBINSTEIN
Budapest, Brasso: PETER, FISCH


Hungary SIG #Hungary Searching for PFEFFER Budapest #hungary

NaorMichael@...
 

Dear H-Siggers,

my ggf was Reb Mojshe PFEFFER, who was teaching at the "Schas Chewre" in the
orthodox synagogue in Budapest until about 1940. He survived the Shoa by
hiding in Budapest and right after the war he was elected Rabbi of Budapest,
which he served until his death 1946 or 1947. On his tombstone in the orthodox
cemetery of Budapest, which I recently visited, there is no mention of his
place or time of birth. He may have been born in Nagyvarad (Grosswardajn). His
father was Chajim and the mother was Chaja Ettl. His wife was Hermine (Mirel)
b. Gottlieb (Juda) GRUENSFELD >from Bratislava (Pressburg). Does anybody know
anything more about him? Are there any (rabbinical) writings by him?
His son Arpi PFEFFER with his wife as well as his daughter Erzsebet
(Elizabeth) married to Hermann (Michael Zwi) GRUENSFELD were perished in the Shoa.
Does anybody have more information about them?
I will be grateful for any hints,

Yours,
Michael Naor
Duesseldorf, Germany


Re: Not any LEVI in Hungary #hungary

Gary Deutsch <gary@...>
 

In the 3000 birth records that I have indexed >from Miskolc, I found the
following:

92 Kohn variants
2 Levi, & 20 Lowi, Lowinger and variants

Gary Deutsch
Roswell, GA

DEUTSCH, WEISS - Miskolc, Hungary
ROTH - Nagy Ida, Hungary
GREENSTEIN - Lithuania
BALINER - Zinkov, Ukraine
ROSENGARTEN - Warsaw, Poland
PECKERAR - Faleshty, Bessarabia
QUELLER, HOLLINGER - Storozhinets, Bukovina
WIDOFSKY - Pukhovichi


Re: Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #austria-czech

David & Diana Laufer <laufer@...>
 

Paula Hauser asked:

Could someone explain whether the decree applied to the whole of
the Habsburg empire; if it was strictly enforced; if there were ways for
getting round (maybe by settling in another area; marrying without a
license; registering children under someone else's name - hence implications
for genealogical research).


My understanding, repeat understanding, is that the Familienten rule was strictly applied in Bohemia and probably in Moravia also.
Consequently many second, third, etc sons moved >from there to Hungary where this rule was not applied, possibly taking their
potential brides with them. Another escape was to marry into families that had only daugthers and acquire the residence right
associated with that family.

David Laufer
Sydney, Australia

Reseaching (among others)

MAHLER - Budapest and Vienna
REDL - Arad and Vienna
MELLER - Raab (Gyor) or Papa, and Vienna
LAUFER - Senica (in Slovakia) and Vienna
FRIEDMANN - Senica
OSTERREICHER - Budapest and Vienna


Re: Word translatoin Please - Templom #hungary

Judy and Gary Floam <gfloam@...>
 

If I might ask another question about this synagogue in Budapest - are the
Dohany Street synagogue and the Great Synagogue the same place or two
different places?

Incidentally, in my experience, American usage is generally "temple" for
Reform and "synagogue" for Conservative and Orthodox.

Judy Floam
Baltimore, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: tom klein <h-sig@...>
To: H-SIG <h-sig@...>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Re: Word translatoin Please - Templom


this is not the case, in my experience at least. i also checked with my
father (we are both >from budapest), and he agrees with me that "zsinagoga"
was not a word they used often, and he pointed out that the "rombach utca
templom" in budapest, for example, was strictly orthodox. (whereas the
"dohany utca templom" was neolog.)

the similarity to "synagogue" and "temple" in english is misleading.


....... tom klein, toronto


Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...> wrote:

There is no difference. The neolog Jews preferred templom, the orthodox
zsinagoga.

Peter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Not any LEVI in Hungary #hungary

Gary Deutsch <gary@...>
 

In the 3000 birth records that I have indexed >from Miskolc, I found the
following:

92 Kohn variants
2 Levi, & 20 Lowi, Lowinger and variants

Gary Deutsch
Roswell, GA

DEUTSCH, WEISS - Miskolc, Hungary
ROTH - Nagy Ida, Hungary
GREENSTEIN - Lithuania
BALINER - Zinkov, Ukraine
ROSENGARTEN - Warsaw, Poland
PECKERAR - Faleshty, Bessarabia
QUELLER, HOLLINGER - Storozhinets, Bukovina
WIDOFSKY - Pukhovichi


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Word translatoin Please - Templom #hungary

Judy and Gary Floam <gfloam@...>
 

If I might ask another question about this synagogue in Budapest - are the
Dohany Street synagogue and the Great Synagogue the same place or two
different places?

Incidentally, in my experience, American usage is generally "temple" for
Reform and "synagogue" for Conservative and Orthodox.

Judy Floam
Baltimore, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: tom klein <h-sig@...>
To: H-SIG <h-sig@...>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Re: Word translatoin Please - Templom


this is not the case, in my experience at least. i also checked with my
father (we are both >from budapest), and he agrees with me that "zsinagoga"
was not a word they used often, and he pointed out that the "rombach utca
templom" in budapest, for example, was strictly orthodox. (whereas the
"dohany utca templom" was neolog.)

the similarity to "synagogue" and "temple" in english is misleading.


....... tom klein, toronto


Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...> wrote:

There is no difference. The neolog Jews preferred templom, the orthodox
zsinagoga.

Peter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Marriage restrictions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

David & Diana Laufer <laufer@...>
 

Paula Hauser asked:

Could someone explain whether the decree applied to the whole of
the Habsburg empire; if it was strictly enforced; if there were ways for
getting round (maybe by settling in another area; marrying without a
license; registering children under someone else's name - hence implications
for genealogical research).


My understanding, repeat understanding, is that the Familienten rule was strictly applied in Bohemia and probably in Moravia also.
Consequently many second, third, etc sons moved >from there to Hungary where this rule was not applied, possibly taking their
potential brides with them. Another escape was to marry into families that had only daugthers and acquire the residence right
associated with that family.

David Laufer
Sydney, Australia

Reseaching (among others)

MAHLER - Budapest and Vienna
REDL - Arad and Vienna
MELLER - Raab (Gyor) or Papa, and Vienna
LAUFER - Senica (in Slovakia) and Vienna
FRIEDMANN - Senica
OSTERREICHER - Budapest and Vienna


ViewMate - Help with mystery family name #unitedkingdom

Naomi Sachs-Amrami <n.sachsamrami@...>
 

Dear all,

After years of fruitless searching for my M G-GF's true surname (he is =
in good company with those whose 'name was changed by the immigration
authorities at the port'), I thought I had a lead.

A kind soul at the London Beth Din made a copy for me of the original registry of my
great-grandparent's marriage entry (civil).

My G-GF. Ben ALEXANDER, signed his name in Hebrew / Yiddish, instead of English in the record book.
Alas when I finally got a good look at the signature, I couldn't read it (and I
can read Hebrew script quite well, and am married to an Israeli who also couldn't make heads or tails of the surname).
If any nice person out there can take a peek / has any insights / translations / suggestions for me,
I'd be grateful.

For background (and in case it helps), my G-GF was originally >from Kiev or
Odessa, emigrated to London sometime between 1906 and 1910, was met at the
port by cousins already in England (family name DUBINSKY). Other family
surnames (he had masses of first cousins) on this branch are FREED, DUBIN,
DUBINSKY (all variants), LIPSON and SASSOON. His Hebrew name as given on the
marriage abstract was Yosef BenTzion bar Sender. The name Benjamin ALEXANDER
was 'given' to him by port officials who wrote that down as his name, when
in fact with his heavy accent he said his first name was BenZion, and his
father's name was Sender.

Go figure.

Thanks in advance for your help (and please respond privately)
The direct link is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D5331

Naomi Sachs-Amrami
Los Angeles, California

ALEXANDER, ABRAHAM, BOENHEIM, DUBINSKY/DOBINSKI/DUBIN/DUBANSKI, etc, FREED,
GOLDSTEIN, LONDON, ROSENBERG, ROSENITZKY, SACHS, SZELZAL / SCHILSA /
SHILTZER / CHILSEY / SHULTZ, etc., TOPPER,=A0WACKER, ZIRKER


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom ViewMate - Help with mystery family name #unitedkingdom

Naomi Sachs-Amrami <n.sachsamrami@...>
 

Dear all,

After years of fruitless searching for my M G-GF's true surname (he is =
in good company with those whose 'name was changed by the immigration
authorities at the port'), I thought I had a lead.

A kind soul at the London Beth Din made a copy for me of the original registry of my
great-grandparent's marriage entry (civil).

My G-GF. Ben ALEXANDER, signed his name in Hebrew / Yiddish, instead of English in the record book.
Alas when I finally got a good look at the signature, I couldn't read it (and I
can read Hebrew script quite well, and am married to an Israeli who also couldn't make heads or tails of the surname).
If any nice person out there can take a peek / has any insights / translations / suggestions for me,
I'd be grateful.

For background (and in case it helps), my G-GF was originally >from Kiev or
Odessa, emigrated to London sometime between 1906 and 1910, was met at the
port by cousins already in England (family name DUBINSKY). Other family
surnames (he had masses of first cousins) on this branch are FREED, DUBIN,
DUBINSKY (all variants), LIPSON and SASSOON. His Hebrew name as given on the
marriage abstract was Yosef BenTzion bar Sender. The name Benjamin ALEXANDER
was 'given' to him by port officials who wrote that down as his name, when
in fact with his heavy accent he said his first name was BenZion, and his
father's name was Sender.

Go figure.

Thanks in advance for your help (and please respond privately)
The direct link is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D5331

Naomi Sachs-Amrami
Los Angeles, California

ALEXANDER, ABRAHAM, BOENHEIM, DUBINSKY/DOBINSKI/DUBIN/DUBANSKI, etc, FREED,
GOLDSTEIN, LONDON, ROSENBERG, ROSENITZKY, SACHS, SZELZAL / SCHILSA /
SHILTZER / CHILSEY / SHULTZ, etc., TOPPER,=A0WACKER, ZIRKER


Re: jcr-uk digest: January 06, 2005 #unitedkingdom

Jackson 5 <mjdiz@...>
 

In Skokie there is a Goldblum family >from Poland who are survivors.

Judy Jackson

----- Original Message -----

Subject: REINWASSER- GOLDBLOOM
From: "Aubrey Jacobus" <zen28027@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:58:37 -0000
X-Message-Number: 3

I have an intriguing problem .
Deborah Sara REINWASSER born 1851 - born Poland/Lithuania
died in UK 1913. >from her headstone I know she had sisters surviving her.
Reinwasser is a very unusual name and I have traced only one family
with the name in USA ( Pittsburgh ) and none in UK.
An informant tells me that a Reinwasser immigrant to UK changed his name
from Reinewasser to GOLDBLOOM. his daughter was born c 1880.
All the Goldblooms in the 1881 UK census seem to be in the North of
England

Any Goldblooms out there ?


Aubrey Jacobus


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: jcr-uk digest: January 06, 2005 #unitedkingdom

Jackson 5 <mjdiz@...>
 

In Skokie there is a Goldblum family >from Poland who are survivors.

Judy Jackson

----- Original Message -----

Subject: REINWASSER- GOLDBLOOM
From: "Aubrey Jacobus" <zen28027@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:58:37 -0000
X-Message-Number: 3

I have an intriguing problem .
Deborah Sara REINWASSER born 1851 - born Poland/Lithuania
died in UK 1913. >from her headstone I know she had sisters surviving her.
Reinwasser is a very unusual name and I have traced only one family
with the name in USA ( Pittsburgh ) and none in UK.
An informant tells me that a Reinwasser immigrant to UK changed his name
from Reinewasser to GOLDBLOOM. his daughter was born c 1880.
All the Goldblooms in the 1881 UK census seem to be in the North of
England

Any Goldblooms out there ?


Aubrey Jacobus


Romanovski colony #belarus

Alan Cohen <ab.cohen@...>
 

Pavel Bernstam mentions a Romanovski colony. Can anyone enlighten me on
this - what it was and whereabouts.
My ggrandparents used the name Romanofsky. I wonder if there is a
connection.
ALAN COHEN, Pinner, UK

researching GLAZER - Lipkany, Bessarabia; COHEN (KUNYEN/KUNIN) -
Vitepsk/Mohilev; ROMANOFSKY-Poltava; DEITSCH (DACZ, DEYTZ etc) -Plock,
Poland; KUTNOWSKI - Gostynin, Poland; KIERSTEJN - Lodz, Poland, HAMBURG
(London).


Belarus SIG #Belarus Romanovski colony #belarus

Alan Cohen <ab.cohen@...>
 

Pavel Bernstam mentions a Romanovski colony. Can anyone enlighten me on
this - what it was and whereabouts.
My ggrandparents used the name Romanofsky. I wonder if there is a
connection.
ALAN COHEN, Pinner, UK

researching GLAZER - Lipkany, Bessarabia; COHEN (KUNYEN/KUNIN) -
Vitepsk/Mohilev; ROMANOFSKY-Poltava; DEITSCH (DACZ, DEYTZ etc) -Plock,
Poland; KUTNOWSKI - Gostynin, Poland; KIERSTEJN - Lodz, Poland, HAMBURG
(London).