Genners,

Some of my ancestors indicated a destination address other than the Lower
East Side in NYC. Did specific occupation groups gravitate to certain
neighborhoods in Manhattan? I'm referring to the period prior to World War
1. Thank you.

Evan Fishman
ebf2001@...

Genners,

Some of my ancestors indicated a destination address other than the Lower
East Side in NYC. Did specific occupation groups gravitate to certain
neighborhoods in Manhattan? I'm referring to the period prior to World War
1. Thank you.

Evan Fishman
ebf2001@...

This site has information >from the Hungarian War Archives regarding
Hungarians who served in the Labor Battalions including those lost on
the Russian front. I was able to find information on-line, without
any fee, regarding a relative who was lost on the russian front in
January 1943. The info provided included his date and place of
birth, mother's maiden name, and place of residence. There were a
number of messages posted to the Hungarian SIG mail list regarding
this resource. Checkl the JewishGen archives for details.

Vivian Kahn, Acting Coordinator, H-SIG

From: "Charles Vitez" <vitez@...>

The web-site is merely a gateway for a pay service. I would be very
surprised if they have actually got records for "munkaszolg=B7latosok"
(forced labour battalions) - but they seem pretty keen to help.

Their work mostly deals with prisoners of war (surviving to be captured
would have more than a little difficult for a Jew - though there might have
been the odd one) and grave inscriptions.

I suspect that if contact KFKI-ISYS Kft in English there will be someone
there who can act as translator.

Charles Vitez

"Golda Zewi" <goldazewi@...> wrote in message

Database of Hungarian soldiers who were taken prison and died in
Soviet war camps during WW2.

> http://www.hadifogoly.adatbanyaszat.hu/fooldal.php

It is in Hungarian language. I saw an article on this in a Finnish
paper. I couldn't try it because I don't understand Hungarian.

Hope this helps somebody.

Golda Zewi
Turku, Finland

> goldazewi@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The Jewishgen archives can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop

This site has information >from the Hungarian War Archives regarding
Hungarians who served in the Labor Battalions including those lost on
the Russian front. I was able to find information on-line, without
any fee, regarding a relative who was lost on the russian front in
January 1943. The info provided included his date and place of
birth, mother's maiden name, and place of residence. There were a
number of messages posted to the Hungarian SIG mail list regarding
this resource. Checkl the JewishGen archives for details.

Vivian Kahn, Acting Coordinator, H-SIG

From: "Charles Vitez" <vitez@...>

The web-site is merely a gateway for a pay service. I would be very
surprised if they have actually got records for "munkaszolg=B7latosok"
(forced labour battalions) - but they seem pretty keen to help.

Their work mostly deals with prisoners of war (surviving to be captured
would have more than a little difficult for a Jew - though there might have
been the odd one) and grave inscriptions.

I suspect that if contact KFKI-ISYS Kft in English there will be someone
there who can act as translator.

Charles Vitez

"Golda Zewi" <goldazewi@...> wrote in message

Database of Hungarian soldiers who were taken prison and died in
Soviet war camps during WW2.

> http://www.hadifogoly.adatbanyaszat.hu/fooldal.php

It is in Hungarian language. I saw an article on this in a Finnish
paper. I couldn't try it because I don't understand Hungarian.

Hope this helps somebody.

Golda Zewi
Turku, Finland

> goldazewi@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The Jewishgen archives can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop

Sorry to reply to the whole group, but I forgot who sent this original
inquiry.

I checked the 1877 gazetteer for Zemplen county and don't see anything
resembling Rudwina.

In Zemplen, you can take your pick of any of the following towns
beginning with "R":

Ratka in Szerencs district.

Regeczi in Tokaj district.

Regmecz (Also & Felso) in SatoraljaUjhely district.

Rad, Ricse and Rozvagy (Nagy & Kis) in Bodrogkoz district.

Ruszka (Nagy & Kis) in Galsecs district.

Rakocz AKA Rakovec and Raska (Nagy & Kis) in NagyMihaly district.

Alternatively, try a little sleuthing using variations on the spelling of
Rudwina.
Vowels u, a, o and e can often be mistaken for each other when trying to
decipher handwriting. "w" and "v" are sometimes interchanged.

You might want to consider the town Radvancz AKA Radvanka AKA Radvance
even though it is in Ung county (near Ungvar) and not Zemplen.

Mindy Soclof

Sorry to reply to the whole group, but I forgot who sent this original
inquiry.

I checked the 1877 gazetteer for Zemplen county and don't see anything
resembling Rudwina.

In Zemplen, you can take your pick of any of the following towns
beginning with "R":

Ratka in Szerencs district.

Regeczi in Tokaj district.

Regmecz (Also & Felso) in SatoraljaUjhely district.

Rad, Ricse and Rozvagy (Nagy & Kis) in Bodrogkoz district.

Ruszka (Nagy & Kis) in Galsecs district.

Rakocz AKA Rakovec and Raska (Nagy & Kis) in NagyMihaly district.

Alternatively, try a little sleuthing using variations on the spelling of
Rudwina.
Vowels u, a, o and e can often be mistaken for each other when trying to
decipher handwriting. "w" and "v" are sometimes interchanged.

You might want to consider the town Radvancz AKA Radvanka AKA Radvance
even though it is in Ung county (near Ungvar) and not Zemplen.

Mindy Soclof

i am sure everyone will enjoy your presentation. On
behalf of all those of us who are unable to attend the
conference, I do hope you commit your talk to writing,
so we can read it later, or maybe record it as well.

Gila Miriam Chait

--- Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
wrote: > I will be there and I hope you all will come
to my

presentation just before (11.15 to 12.30). The title
is:
Hungarian Jews-Where Did They Come From?
Henry Wellisch

Moderator: Although there were Jews in Hungary
during the time of the Romans, even before the
Magyars came riding in >from the east, most of our
relatives arrived much more recently. Come to
Henry's session and find out where your ancestors
were before they became Hungarians. And then join
H-SIG for an informal lunch meeting >from 12:30 to 2
pm on Thursday, Aug. 8, at the Cafe on the Square,
on the ground floor of Toronto City Hall, across the
street >from the conference hotel.

Moderator: We'll post a summary of the H-SIG business meeting but will have to rely on speakers and those who attend the sessions for summaries of presentations.

i am sure everyone will enjoy your presentation. On
behalf of all those of us who are unable to attend the
conference, I do hope you commit your talk to writing,
so we can read it later, or maybe record it as well.

Gila Miriam Chait

--- Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
wrote: > I will be there and I hope you all will come
to my

presentation just before (11.15 to 12.30). The title
is:
Hungarian Jews-Where Did They Come From?
Henry Wellisch

Moderator: Although there were Jews in Hungary
during the time of the Romans, even before the
Magyars came riding in >from the east, most of our
relatives arrived much more recently. Come to
Henry's session and find out where your ancestors
were before they became Hungarians. And then join
H-SIG for an informal lunch meeting >from 12:30 to 2
pm on Thursday, Aug. 8, at the Cafe on the Square,
on the ground floor of Toronto City Hall, across the
street >from the conference hotel.

Moderator: We'll post a summary of the H-SIG business meeting but will have to rely on speakers and those who attend the sessions for summaries of presentations.

i was just looking through the holocaust databases on jewishgen, and i happened upon the "hungarian occupations" page at <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/holocaust/HungarianOccupations.html>.

almost immediately, i noticed some of the "unable to decipher" entries, such as "agyet.hallg", which could be translated properly with relative ease. ("egyetemi halgato", for instance, is not much of a stretch.)

this brings up 2 questions:

1) would some of our hungarian-speaking members care to take a few minutes to scan these pages and suggest some corrections?

2) how do we submit these corrections?



....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator: Please contact me if you're interested in contributing to these databases.

i was just looking through the holocaust databases on jewishgen, and i happened upon the "hungarian occupations" page at <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/holocaust/HungarianOccupations.html>.

almost immediately, i noticed some of the "unable to decipher" entries, such as "agyet.hallg", which could be translated properly with relative ease. ("egyetemi halgato", for instance, is not much of a stretch.)

this brings up 2 questions:

1) would some of our hungarian-speaking members care to take a few minutes to scan these pages and suggest some corrections?

2) how do we submit these corrections?



....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator: Please contact me if you're interested in contributing to these databases.

The Debrecen database is now available thanks to the hard work of the
following JewishGen volunteers: Bob Keimowitz (coordinator), Susanne
Belovari, Bobby Furst, Joan Hartmann, Debbi Korman, Margalit Modai,
Henny Kestenbaum, Stephen Schmideg and Vera Varga. Tom Venetianer
contributed the translation of occupations.

Volunteers who contributed to the Szombathly records are : Mark
Benisz (coordinator), Norman Greenfield, Charles Gluckman,
Renee Marcus, Al Hersh, Max Heffler, Attila Rona and Mindy Soclof.

Thanks to all, including the people at Yad Vashem who made this data
available to us.

HI h-siggers,
Is there anyone who can translate slovak to english for me?
I received a letter >from Bratislava-archives.
I can only guess what they want
Help, PLEASE
jacob

Moderator: Please respond directly to Jacob if you can help. Document such as this one should also be scanned and sent to JewishGen's view mate.

The Debrecen database is now available thanks to the hard work of the
following JewishGen volunteers: Bob Keimowitz (coordinator), Susanne
Belovari, Bobby Furst, Joan Hartmann, Debbi Korman, Margalit Modai,
Henny Kestenbaum, Stephen Schmideg and Vera Varga. Tom Venetianer
contributed the translation of occupations.

Volunteers who contributed to the Szombathly records are : Mark
Benisz (coordinator), Norman Greenfield, Charles Gluckman,
Renee Marcus, Al Hersh, Max Heffler, Attila Rona and Mindy Soclof.

Thanks to all, including the people at Yad Vashem who made this data
available to us.

HI h-siggers,
Is there anyone who can translate slovak to english for me?
I received a letter >from Bratislava-archives.
I can only guess what they want
Help, PLEASE
jacob

Moderator: Please respond directly to Jacob if you can help. Document such as this one should also be scanned and sent to JewishGen's view mate.

Shalom,

There are two Katzens (note spelling) in the 1929 SA Jewish Year Book .
Abraham William b Plungian 1889,
Herman b Kreutzberg, Latvia 1873

If you dont have access to this volume please contact me. Would be a ple=
asure

e-mail or 815 741 4600

Richard Newman
Rabbi
Joliet, Illinois

A genner recently posted a message asking for help, a second time, in
deciphering a viewmate, decrying the fact that he received only two
responses--and that they didn't agree with each other.

I recognized his plight, so I took the time to respond with some
suggestions.
I'm paraphrasing my response here to suggest how others might maximize the
attention of others, especially of those who take their genealogy
seriously.

Obviously, the first step in any inquiry is to draw in people who might be
able to answer it with the only thing they see: your subject line. You
have to be specific, very specific.

When I decide to help a stranger and look at a viewmate, I have to find
the URL, copy-paste it to the search line, open it, save it as a file,
copy it into a graphics program, enlarge it, play with the color
balance . . . .

It takes time. Before a reader does that, s/he'll be thinking: "What's
the likelihood that my investment in time will pay off? I don't even know
whether you want me to recognize your Aunt Beyleh's wedding dress, or your
grandfather's army uniform; a line of Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Russian,
German, Turkish, American; 15th century or 20th, a passport, a tombstone,
a prayerbook or a Ketubah."

In that particular case, a subjectline such as "Viewmate: US 1930 census:
decipher Latvian townname" would have alerted people to the fact that it
was a fairly recent American document (more easily readable for about
everyone) and that a knowledge of Latvian/Lithuanian townnames might be
useful. Since I'm not familiar with such names, I would have ignored it
and left it to someone more knowledgable to help--and perhaps used the
time to respond to someone whom I could more likely help.

Since I took the trouble of responding and suggesting how to maximize the
likelihood of getting a response, I decided to go to the trouble myself
and check out the document myself--a difficult task given the handwriting.
Unfortunately, deciphering specific words without adequate comparison
words, is difficult. I could read "Russia" twice but not the names of the
towns.
It would have helped to have much more of the text, at least six times as
much, to decipher the lettering by comparison to known words such as, say
"Solomon Tzigesztayn," "grocer," "homemaker," "Valley View Avenue,"
"Sacramento" etc. Given such information by the poster I might have
deciphered the words in doubt--or at least offered approximations that
might narrow down the search, giving us something to compare the requested
words with.

Approximations don't offer certainties but they can help us narrow the
field until we can say "most likely." In this case, looking for towns in
latia or Lithuania, my suggestion is to take a large, detailed map of the
Baltic states (or a list of all the towns and villages there--a good
library should have one) and go over each name, comparing it with what you
have on the census form. Make a list of possible towns, check them
against your record.
Delete the most unlikely ones >from the list and go over the list and the
record, again and again, eliminating the doubtful. When you've narrowed
if down to a handful, look up each one on the map. At some point you
might like to measure the distances between the pairs. If the two columns
of towns (you didn't tell us what they refer to) are, say, "where born"
and "where lived before immigration" or "where birth was registered," then
the pair with the shortest distance would be the most likely ones. Check
those out against the census image.

You could make your search easier if you used jewishgen's Shtettelseeker.
You can search for approximations by using soundex for each of the names
that you guess (my first guess, for what it's worth: Lemzule in the first
column, Dangwod in the right column, Ringuir in the middle). Or, if you're
fairly certain of the first three letters, you can search in each country
using the "towns begining with" format. Repeat again and again as your
approximations appear to get closer. Locate the places on the map, blow
the map up to a size where every village is marked, go over it with a
toothcomb, use the "re-center" click to investigate maps to the left,
right, top and bottom of it, repeating again and again until you've
covered the entire country. When you get to a near-hit. use
the "distance" finder of shtettelseeker to give you the names of
surrounding towns and villages--and the distances between
them.

You could narrow down your list of possible towns by looking through
databases of towns where Jews lived--e.g. "Where Once We Walked" or Yad
VaShem. Focus in on those who would be most knowledgable, on the various
special interest groups--in this case Latvia, Lithuania, Litvak, Poland,
Rusia, Memor books (you can never tell which country a town in the Baltic
states was in any given year--was Russia, as on this document, the country
of birth, or the country at the time of the American census?). Spread out

from Jewishgen.org if you're not looking for something specifically

Jewish. CyndisList.com will give you lots of sites for people exploring
Latvia or Lithuania, Russia or Baltic States or Poland. Post your request
for help to each one of those specialized sites.

And work at it, to the best of your ability, and with lots of patience.

Yes, patience. A week or two may easily pass before others respond. Don't
be disappointed if the answers don't agree with each other--what would you
expect when even you, who's familiar with the people and their history
aren't sure which they are. Each response is valuable: run it through the
search process decribed above. Be grateful for each approximation, each
crumb of information. Check out how well each fits and add them to your
collections of "perhaps"es.

Summary
1. Make sure you target your question at the List that is most likely to
have the answer--and to be interested in the topic
2. Make sure that your subject line clearly delineates the problem,
including nature of request, time period of document, language of
document, kind of document
3. Present as much of your document for the reader to be able to compare
the puzzling words with the probable and readable ones--and you have to
provide the key to those "readable" ones
4. Make sure that you explain in the body of your message very
specifically what you're looking for (e.g. town, village, county, rabbi,
profession, relationship, cause of death--and its location on the
viewmate: L/R, top/bottom, center, column, line etc.)
5. Have patience waiting for responses. It takes time
6. Be prepared to do a lot of hard work yourself.

Most important though--make sure that the experts and the specialists will
want to open your query and attempt to help you.

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@...>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);
BERNET, BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

Shalom,

There are two Katzens (note spelling) in the 1929 SA Jewish Year Book .
Abraham William b Plungian 1889,
Herman b Kreutzberg, Latvia 1873

If you dont have access to this volume please contact me. Would be a ple=
asure

e-mail or 815 741 4600

Richard Newman
Rabbi
Joliet, Illinois

A genner recently posted a message asking for help, a second time, in
deciphering a viewmate, decrying the fact that he received only two
responses--and that they didn't agree with each other.

I recognized his plight, so I took the time to respond with some
suggestions.
I'm paraphrasing my response here to suggest how others might maximize the
attention of others, especially of those who take their genealogy
seriously.

Obviously, the first step in any inquiry is to draw in people who might be
able to answer it with the only thing they see: your subject line. You
have to be specific, very specific.

When I decide to help a stranger and look at a viewmate, I have to find
the URL, copy-paste it to the search line, open it, save it as a file,
copy it into a graphics program, enlarge it, play with the color
balance . . . .

It takes time. Before a reader does that, s/he'll be thinking: "What's
the likelihood that my investment in time will pay off? I don't even know
whether you want me to recognize your Aunt Beyleh's wedding dress, or your
grandfather's army uniform; a line of Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Russian,
German, Turkish, American; 15th century or 20th, a passport, a tombstone,
a prayerbook or a Ketubah."

In that particular case, a subjectline such as "Viewmate: US 1930 census:
decipher Latvian townname" would have alerted people to the fact that it
was a fairly recent American document (more easily readable for about
everyone) and that a knowledge of Latvian/Lithuanian townnames might be
useful. Since I'm not familiar with such names, I would have ignored it
and left it to someone more knowledgable to help--and perhaps used the
time to respond to someone whom I could more likely help.

Since I took the trouble of responding and suggesting how to maximize the
likelihood of getting a response, I decided to go to the trouble myself
and check out the document myself--a difficult task given the handwriting.
Unfortunately, deciphering specific words without adequate comparison
words, is difficult. I could read "Russia" twice but not the names of the
towns.
It would have helped to have much more of the text, at least six times as
much, to decipher the lettering by comparison to known words such as, say
"Solomon Tzigesztayn," "grocer," "homemaker," "Valley View Avenue,"
"Sacramento" etc. Given such information by the poster I might have
deciphered the words in doubt--or at least offered approximations that
might narrow down the search, giving us something to compare the requested
words with.

Approximations don't offer certainties but they can help us narrow the
field until we can say "most likely." In this case, looking for towns in
latia or Lithuania, my suggestion is to take a large, detailed map of the
Baltic states (or a list of all the towns and villages there--a good
library should have one) and go over each name, comparing it with what you
have on the census form. Make a list of possible towns, check them
against your record.
Delete the most unlikely ones >from the list and go over the list and the
record, again and again, eliminating the doubtful. When you've narrowed
if down to a handful, look up each one on the map. At some point you
might like to measure the distances between the pairs. If the two columns
of towns (you didn't tell us what they refer to) are, say, "where born"
and "where lived before immigration" or "where birth was registered," then
the pair with the shortest distance would be the most likely ones. Check
those out against the census image.

You could make your search easier if you used jewishgen's Shtettelseeker.
You can search for approximations by using soundex for each of the names
that you guess (my first guess, for what it's worth: Lemzule in the first
column, Dangwod in the right column, Ringuir in the middle). Or, if you're
fairly certain of the first three letters, you can search in each country
using the "towns begining with" format. Repeat again and again as your
approximations appear to get closer. Locate the places on the map, blow
the map up to a size where every village is marked, go over it with a
toothcomb, use the "re-center" click to investigate maps to the left,
right, top and bottom of it, repeating again and again until you've
covered the entire country. When you get to a near-hit. use
the "distance" finder of shtettelseeker to give you the names of
surrounding towns and villages--and the distances between
them.

You could narrow down your list of possible towns by looking through
databases of towns where Jews lived--e.g. "Where Once We Walked" or Yad
VaShem. Focus in on those who would be most knowledgable, on the various
special interest groups--in this case Latvia, Lithuania, Litvak, Poland,
Rusia, Memor books (you can never tell which country a town in the Baltic
states was in any given year--was Russia, as on this document, the country
of birth, or the country at the time of the American census?). Spread out

from Jewishgen.org if you're not looking for something specifically

Jewish. CyndisList.com will give you lots of sites for people exploring
Latvia or Lithuania, Russia or Baltic States or Poland. Post your request
for help to each one of those specialized sites.

And work at it, to the best of your ability, and with lots of patience.

Yes, patience. A week or two may easily pass before others respond. Don't
be disappointed if the answers don't agree with each other--what would you
expect when even you, who's familiar with the people and their history
aren't sure which they are. Each response is valuable: run it through the
search process decribed above. Be grateful for each approximation, each
crumb of information. Check out how well each fits and add them to your
collections of "perhaps"es.

Summary
1. Make sure you target your question at the List that is most likely to
have the answer--and to be interested in the topic
2. Make sure that your subject line clearly delineates the problem,
including nature of request, time period of document, language of
document, kind of document
3. Present as much of your document for the reader to be able to compare
the puzzling words with the probable and readable ones--and you have to
provide the key to those "readable" ones
4. Make sure that you explain in the body of your message very
specifically what you're looking for (e.g. town, village, county, rabbi,
profession, relationship, cause of death--and its location on the
viewmate: L/R, top/bottom, center, column, line etc.)
5. Have patience waiting for responses. It takes time
6. Be prepared to do a lot of hard work yourself.

Most important though--make sure that the experts and the specialists will
want to open your query and attempt to help you.

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@...>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);
BERNET, BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

I am working on a large collection of records for Plawno, Poland, starting
in the 1870s. Perhaps I have already made contact with everyone interested
in Plawno?

If you are interested in Plawno or any small town within about 10 miles of
Plawno (and if we have not already been in contact, please contact me at:

dkazez@...

Dan

P.S. Plawno is located a few miles >from Radomkso, north of Czestochowa:

http://www.kazez.com/~dan/pol-map.jpg

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
Springfield, Ohio USA
Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Janow-Zarki-Plawno-Radomsko-Lodz-Zgierz
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS, MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/

The Rzeszow Research Group will meet during the Toronto Genealogy
Conference on Wednesday, August 7 at 11:15 am in the VIP Room.

If you had family in the city of Rzeszow, please come. Please let me
know if you might attend the meeting so that I prepare enough handouts.

Rzeszow is pronounced zhe-shov, and is called Reisha or Reyshe in Yiddish.
Visit our website at <www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Rzeszow>

Marian Rubin
San Francisco
Coordinator, the Rzeszow Research Group