Drzewica records for the period before 1872 were kept in the town of
Opoczno--they are designated in the records as being >from Drzewica.

Opoczno records are available >from FHC's for the period >from 1826-1860
(#719131-719137) and 1866-1887. There are likely to be later records for
Drzewica residents.

Debra J. Kay
debjkay@...
Simi Valley,CA

Hello!

My name is Moshe Karmin, and I research my family roots.

>from the information we already know, our GF Jacob Karmin, was born around
1870 in the town of Grajewo, north east Poland now, Russia at that time,
Lomza gubernia.

By searching JRI-Poland database, we found many Karmin's who where living
in that area, in radius of app. 20 miles. The towns are: Szczuczyn
(Stuzin), Lomza, Suwalki, & Bialystock.

All this towns close location leads to the conclusion that all Karmin >from
this area should be first or second grade relatives/family.

By cross checking the EIDB database,we found two brothers of our GF who
arrived to the USA. the names are: Max Karmin, arrived on 1908, at the age
of 22, and Judke Karmin arrived on 1912, at the age of 22. >from EIDB
database, we learn that Max Karmin lived on 169th, 4 Ave, New York.

Additional names that are on EIDB, and we think belong to the Family group
are:
Moische Karmin >from Stuzin, arrived 1902, age 36.
Mendel karmin >from Stuzin, arrived 1900, age 22.
Nochim Karmin >from Suwalki, arrived 1922, age 49.

Most of east-Europian immigrant who came to north America, could speak only
Yiddish, and sometime the immigration clerks misspell the last name, and
turn it to: Carmen, Karman, Kermen, Etc. By cross check the JRI-Poland and
Eidb databases, we came to definate conclusion that all misspelled are >from
the same source: Karmin, specially when it concerns people and families who
came >from Lomza gubernia - Grajewo\ Lomza\ Stuzin\ Suwalki.

We are looking for descendants related to a/m, with highlight on Max &
Judke Karmin Who as far as we know, lived in NYC around the 1920.

Any possible information will be highly appreciated.

Moshe Karmin, Rishon Lezion - Israel
E-Mail: mkarmin@...

The story that I heard >from my father, Israel Schiffres, who was born in
Grodno (Russia) in 1898, was that while the Germans were occupying Grodno in
1917 (during World War I), he received permission to move (immigrate?) to
Cologne (Koln). Does anyone know what kind of papers were required and
whether it was common, or easy, for Jews to leave war-torn Russia for Germany?
Also, I believe he told me that he had no passport until he married my
mother (Lea Speier-Holstein) in 1926. He was then required to obtain a
passport and had a choice of applying for a "Bolshevik" Soviet passport or a
Polish one (Grodno was by then in Poland.) He chose the latter, and the
passport was issued to I. SZYFRES, a spelling that he never used although it
was our "legal" name until we became American Citizens and reverted to the
Schiffres spelling. Has anyone heard of Jews being given such a choice of
citizenship?

Irwin J. SCHIFFRES
Rochester, NY
Searching HOLSTEIN or SPEIER-HOLSTEIN (Neuenbrunslar, Gensungen), SPEIER
or SPEYER (Hof or Hoof), KAHN (Alsace, Belgium), SCHIFFRES/SHIFRES/SZYFRES
(Grodno), HALPERN/GALPERN (Grodno)

I can now be found at: pearlman@... Do not send to any other
e-mail address. Thanks, Sy Pearlman

MODERATOR NOTE: Please remember to change your address for subscriptions
and the JGFF, if you have not already done so.

I can now be found at: pearlman@... Do not send to any other
e-mail address. Thanks, Sy Pearlman

MODERATOR NOTE: Please remember to change your address for subscriptions
and the JGFF, if you have not already done so.

Drzewica records for the period before 1872 were kept in the town of
Opoczno--they are designated in the records as being >from Drzewica.

Opoczno records are available >from FHC's for the period >from 1826-1860
(#719131-719137) and 1866-1887. There are likely to be later records for
Drzewica residents.

Debra J. Kay
debjkay@...
Simi Valley,CA

Hello!

My name is Moshe Karmin, and I research my family roots.

>from the information we already know, our GF Jacob Karmin, was born around
1870 in the town of Grajewo, north east Poland now, Russia at that time,
Lomza gubernia.

By searching JRI-Poland database, we found many Karmin's who where living
in that area, in radius of app. 20 miles. The towns are: Szczuczyn
(Stuzin), Lomza, Suwalki, & Bialystock.

All this towns close location leads to the conclusion that all Karmin >from
this area should be first or second grade relatives/family.

By cross checking the EIDB database,we found two brothers of our GF who
arrived to the USA. the names are: Max Karmin, arrived on 1908, at the age
of 22, and Judke Karmin arrived on 1912, at the age of 22. >from EIDB
database, we learn that Max Karmin lived on 169th, 4 Ave, New York.

Additional names that are on EIDB, and we think belong to the Family group
are:
Moische Karmin >from Stuzin, arrived 1902, age 36.
Mendel karmin >from Stuzin, arrived 1900, age 22.
Nochim Karmin >from Suwalki, arrived 1922, age 49.

Most of east-Europian immigrant who came to north America, could speak only
Yiddish, and sometime the immigration clerks misspell the last name, and
turn it to: Carmen, Karman, Kermen, Etc. By cross check the JRI-Poland and
Eidb databases, we came to definate conclusion that all misspelled are >from
the same source: Karmin, specially when it concerns people and families who
came >from Lomza gubernia - Grajewo\ Lomza\ Stuzin\ Suwalki.

We are looking for descendants related to a/m, with highlight on Max &
Judke Karmin Who as far as we know, lived in NYC around the 1920.

Any possible information will be highly appreciated.

Moshe Karmin, Rishon Lezion - Israel
E-Mail: mkarmin@...

The story that I heard >from my father, Israel Schiffres, who was born in
Grodno (Russia) in 1898, was that while the Germans were occupying Grodno in
1917 (during World War I), he received permission to move (immigrate?) to
Cologne (Koln). Does anyone know what kind of papers were required and
whether it was common, or easy, for Jews to leave war-torn Russia for Germany?
Also, I believe he told me that he had no passport until he married my
mother (Lea Speier-Holstein) in 1926. He was then required to obtain a
passport and had a choice of applying for a "Bolshevik" Soviet passport or a
Polish one (Grodno was by then in Poland.) He chose the latter, and the
passport was issued to I. SZYFRES, a spelling that he never used although it
was our "legal" name until we became American Citizens and reverted to the
Schiffres spelling. Has anyone heard of Jews being given such a choice of
citizenship?

Irwin J. SCHIFFRES
Rochester, NY
Searching HOLSTEIN or SPEIER-HOLSTEIN (Neuenbrunslar, Gensungen), SPEIER
or SPEYER (Hof or Hoof), KAHN (Alsace, Belgium), SCHIFFRES/SHIFRES/SZYFRES
(Grodno), HALPERN/GALPERN (Grodno)

In a message dated 12/27/2001 11:28:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
israel@... writes:

<< I don't know about Neche, but Selma is of Celtic origin and I
think it would be unlikely to be found in 19th century Poland.
Presumably she adopted this name when she came to America. AFAIK
there is no relation between this and Neche, >>

==My dictionary says Selma is of Greek origin. It is a fairly common name
in Europe and found quite frequently among Jews. My guess is it often has
someething to do with Shlomit/Shulamit/Salame or masculine names like
Salomon or Zelig.

Neche is one of many names derived >from the Hebrew Nechama (consolation)
equivalent to the male Menachem (often rendered Mendel).

Parents give whatever names they want to their children; the latter can pick
up a new name wheneever they want to go to the trouble. Immigration is as
good a time as any. Names cannot be "translated."

Michael Bernet, New York

In a message dated 12/27/2001 11:28:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
israel@... writes:

<< I don't know about Neche, but Selma is of Celtic origin and I
think it would be unlikely to be found in 19th century Poland.
Presumably she adopted this name when she came to America. AFAIK
there is no relation between this and Neche, >>

==My dictionary says Selma is of Greek origin. It is a fairly common name
in Europe and found quite frequently among Jews. My guess is it often has
someething to do with Shlomit/Shulamit/Salame or masculine names like
Salomon or Zelig.

Neche is one of many names derived >from the Hebrew Nechama (consolation)
equivalent to the male Menachem (often rendered Mendel).

Parents give whatever names they want to their children; the latter can pick
up a new name wheneever they want to go to the trouble. Immigration is as
good a time as any. Names cannot be "translated."

Michael Bernet, New York

The JGS is pleased to announce the completion of the Brooklyn Naturalization
project, including petitions and declarations filed in State Supreme Court,
Kings County, 1907-1924. The 253,400 names now on line can be searched at
www.jgsny.org. The "comments" column, not available to the public before, is
now open. This column provides information on name changes and alternate
names appearing on declarations, petitions or certificates of arrival, as
well as other genealogically useful information. **Please read** the
updated FAQ before using the information in the Comments column.

Because of the number of persons attempting to reach this site, you may
experience a slow down. Please be patient. Good luck in your search!

Estelle Guzik
Brooklyn Project Coordinator

I would like to thank the people who responded to my emails. they were
words of comfort to me and have helped me put some demons to rest. I still
hope that someone out there knew of my grandfather, Alfred Peritz >from
Berlin or Hamburg or his wife Sophie Peritz >from WWII. Any information
would be very helpful to me since my immediate family (father) and (aunt)
Margot cannot speak about it.

Thank all of you again, and have a happy a healthy new year!

Lisa A. Peritz
lperitz@...

I would like to thank the people who responded to my emails. they were
words of comfort to me and have helped me put some demons to rest. I still
hope that someone out there knew of my grandfather, Alfred Peritz >from
Berlin or Hamburg or his wife Sophie Peritz >from WWII. Any information
would be very helpful to me since my immediate family (father) and (aunt)
Margot cannot speak about it.

Thank all of you again, and have a happy a healthy new year!

Lisa A. Peritz
lperitz@...

The JGS is pleased to announce the completion of the Brooklyn Naturalization
project, including petitions and declarations filed in State Supreme Court,
Kings County, 1907-1924. The 253,400 names now on line can be searched at
www.jgsny.org. The "comments" column, not available to the public before, is
now open. This column provides information on name changes and alternate
names appearing on declarations, petitions or certificates of arrival, as
well as other genealogically useful information. **Please read** the
updated FAQ before using the information in the Comments column.

Because of the number of persons attempting to reach this site, you may
experience a slow down. Please be patient. Good luck in your search!

Estelle Guzik
Brooklyn Project Coordinator

Dear LitvakSIGers,

The purpose of this "Hints & Kinks" posting is to help you solve problems
associated with the state of development of the specific GNDB data base you
want to use.

The new set of 15 Given Names Data Bases provides excellent opportunities
to find additional given names which may appear for your ancestors in
various European archival documents. Since this is an on-going project, we
are updating the data bases and text files periodically (the next update
will be posted next month.) This factor has implications for how you might
want to use other GNDBs if the one for your particular European country of
interest is less developed than that of some other countries.

You can visit the URL <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/> and
examine the large table there which summarizes the state of development of
each European country's project in terms of a number of project phases and
foreign-country vernacular names. This table is updated when new names are
added to the data bases. Here is a short summary, breaking up the European
countries into three approximate-development groups:

Advanced: Belarus, Lithuania, Poland
Medium: Galicia, Germany, Holland, Hungary, Latvia, Ukraine
Elementary: Denmark, France, Prussia, Romania, Russia, Sweden

"Elementary" means that the data base has a set of basic legal names plus a
sometimes small number of other European Jewish names added. "Medium"
means that certain project phases are well advanced, while others are not,
and that some foreign vernacular names may be present. "Advanced " means
that the number and quality of European Jewish names is good to excellent,
and that the number of foreign vernacular names is medium to good.

Now, what does this mean to you, if your particular country of interest is
not in the "Advanced" category? Here is one thing that you can do,
depending on the Yiddish dialect spoken in your European country.

There were four main Yiddish dialects in 19th-century Europe: Western,
Polish/Galician, Litvish, and Ukraine:

Western: Denmark, France, Germany, Holland, Hungary, Prussia, West Romania,
Sweden
Polish: Poland, West Galicia
Litvish: Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Suwalk Gubernya, Northeastern Ukraine
Ukraine: East Galicia, East Romania, Ukraine (except northeastern)

Those countries where Western Yiddish was spoken actually used a number of
somewhat different sub-dialects of "Western" Yiddish; the other three
dialects were much more uniformly spoken in their countries. Due to
migrations within Europe, there was some redistribution of Yiddish
dialects. To a certain extent, however, the different cultures of the Jews
and their choices of given names reflected the Yiddish dialect they
spoke. You can visit the following page in the JewishGen Given Names Data
Base web site to obtain more regional details: <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/geografc.htm> .

The upshot is, for example, that if you are researching in France
("Elementary") where the data base is somewhat sparse, you might also
consider searching in the German data base ("Medium") -- it is adjacent to
France, both countries spoke "Western" Yiddish, they handed a part of their
boundary areas back and forth a few times, and you might just find some
additional names that apply to your research. Similar thinking applies to
other European country pairs where the two were adjacent and spoke the same
Yiddish dialect.

Similarly, by examining the data bases of the "Big Three" (Belarus,
Lithuania, Poland), you may get good ideas about other names that you have
seen but not considered for your ancestors. A lot of the given names
throughout Europe were well-shared among all of the countries, even though
specific countries had their own preferences for some names. Furthermore,
the basic set of Hebrew names used to initiate each country's data base
represents quite well the common choice by all regions of this small set of
names, followed by the addition of other preferred names.

Future "Hints & Kinks" will deal with how to use the Input Form to maximize
the efficiency of your name searches.

Good luck with your research.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel

Dear LitvakSIGers,

The purpose of this "Hints & Kinks" posting is to help you solve problems
associated with the state of development of the specific GNDB data base you
want to use.

The new set of 15 Given Names Data Bases provides excellent opportunities
to find additional given names which may appear for your ancestors in
various European archival documents. Since this is an on-going project, we
are updating the data bases and text files periodically (the next update
will be posted next month.) This factor has implications for how you might
want to use other GNDBs if the one for your particular European country of
interest is less developed than that of some other countries.

You can visit the URL <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/> and
examine the large table there which summarizes the state of development of
each European country's project in terms of a number of project phases and
foreign-country vernacular names. This table is updated when new names are
added to the data bases. Here is a short summary, breaking up the European
countries into three approximate-development groups:

Advanced: Belarus, Lithuania, Poland
Medium: Galicia, Germany, Holland, Hungary, Latvia, Ukraine
Elementary: Denmark, France, Prussia, Romania, Russia, Sweden

"Elementary" means that the data base has a set of basic legal names plus a
sometimes small number of other European Jewish names added. "Medium"
means that certain project phases are well advanced, while others are not,
and that some foreign vernacular names may be present. "Advanced " means
that the number and quality of European Jewish names is good to excellent,
and that the number of foreign vernacular names is medium to good.

Now, what does this mean to you, if your particular country of interest is
not in the "Advanced" category? Here is one thing that you can do,
depending on the Yiddish dialect spoken in your European country.

There were four main Yiddish dialects in 19th-century Europe: Western,
Polish/Galician, Litvish, and Ukraine:

Western: Denmark, France, Germany, Holland, Hungary, Prussia, West Romania,
Sweden
Polish: Poland, West Galicia
Litvish: Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Suwalk Gubernya, Northeastern Ukraine
Ukraine: East Galicia, East Romania, Ukraine (except northeastern)

Those countries where Western Yiddish was spoken actually used a number of
somewhat different sub-dialects of "Western" Yiddish; the other three
dialects were much more uniformly spoken in their countries. Due to
migrations within Europe, there was some redistribution of Yiddish
dialects. To a certain extent, however, the different cultures of the Jews
and their choices of given names reflected the Yiddish dialect they
spoke. You can visit the following page in the JewishGen Given Names Data
Base web site to obtain more regional details: <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/geografc.htm> .

The upshot is, for example, that if you are researching in France
("Elementary") where the data base is somewhat sparse, you might also
consider searching in the German data base ("Medium") -- it is adjacent to
France, both countries spoke "Western" Yiddish, they handed a part of their
boundary areas back and forth a few times, and you might just find some
additional names that apply to your research. Similar thinking applies to
other European country pairs where the two were adjacent and spoke the same
Yiddish dialect.

Similarly, by examining the data bases of the "Big Three" (Belarus,
Lithuania, Poland), you may get good ideas about other names that you have
seen but not considered for your ancestors. A lot of the given names
throughout Europe were well-shared among all of the countries, even though
specific countries had their own preferences for some names. Furthermore,
the basic set of Hebrew names used to initiate each country's data base
represents quite well the common choice by all regions of this small set of
names, followed by the addition of other preferred names.

Future "Hints & Kinks" will deal with how to use the Input Form to maximize
the efficiency of your name searches.

Good luck with your research.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel

A new Shtetlink site for Orhei (Orgeyev), Moldova has been added to the
Jewishgen list of Shtetlinks. This site will only be useful if everyone
who has interest in Orhei participates in its construction and use.
Please look at this site and reply to the Orhei Shtetl Site coordinator
with any comments, criticisms, suggestions, additions, willingness to help,
etc.

I will be posting information about the site and any additions, etc. on
the Romanian Sig. If you would like to be kept informed you can
subscribe to ROM-SIG.

Terry Lasky
Centennial, Colorado

A new Shtetlink site for Orhei (Orgeyev), Moldova has been added to the
Jewishgen list of Shtetlinks. This site will only be useful if everyone
who has interest in Orhei participates in its construction and use.
Please look at this site and reply to the Orhei Shtetl Site coordinator
with any comments, criticisms, suggestions, additions, willingness to help,
etc.

I will be posting information about the site and any additions, etc. on
the Romanian Sig. If you would like to be kept informed you can
subscribe to ROM-SIG.

Terry Lasky
Centennial, Colorado

Dear Linda,
I'm not aware of any website with the answers you seek. You'll need to
keep digging and researching until you find the answers. You might
consider:

1) Are their graves in a Jewish cemetery, or a Jewish section of a mixed
cemetery? Jewish burial grounds are "consecrated", so Jewish people
aren't usually buried in non-Jewish sections.

2) You said you have census records, but have you tried the Canadian
censuses? The Canadian censuses, every ten years on the "one" year
(1901, 1891, 1881, etc.), have been released up to 1901. I don't know
what information they include, but they may be helpful.

3) If you can find someone's marriage certificate, it might indicate
where the marriage was performed, and by whom. A wedding in a synagogue
would be a good indication the couple was Jewish. (Note: Being married
by a "Rev." doesn't necessarily indicate Christianity - I've seen
marriage certificates with that as the rabbi's appellation.).

4) Are there any other siblings or cousins you could research?
Sometimes, searching "sideways" gets you around the proverbial brick
wall.

5) If you can find immigration records, they frequently noted if the
passengers were Jewish / Hebrew.

6) What about the maternal grandfather, or the paternal grandparents?
Did they immigrate? Can you find any of their information? That could
help --.

Good luck to you in your research!

Regards,
Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia
Searching Today: Descendants of a woman KATZ >from Ekaterinoslav, who
married a man ROSENBERG in the later part of the last century, and
immigrated in NYC.

Dear Linda,
I'm not aware of any website with the answers you seek. You'll need to
keep digging and researching until you find the answers. You might
consider:

1) Are their graves in a Jewish cemetery, or a Jewish section of a mixed
cemetery? Jewish burial grounds are "consecrated", so Jewish people
aren't usually buried in non-Jewish sections.

2) You said you have census records, but have you tried the Canadian
censuses? The Canadian censuses, every ten years on the "one" year
(1901, 1891, 1881, etc.), have been released up to 1901. I don't know
what information they include, but they may be helpful.

3) If you can find someone's marriage certificate, it might indicate
where the marriage was performed, and by whom. A wedding in a synagogue
would be a good indication the couple was Jewish. (Note: Being married
by a "Rev." doesn't necessarily indicate Christianity - I've seen
marriage certificates with that as the rabbi's appellation.).

4) Are there any other siblings or cousins you could research?
Sometimes, searching "sideways" gets you around the proverbial brick
wall.

5) If you can find immigration records, they frequently noted if the
passengers were Jewish / Hebrew.

6) What about the maternal grandfather, or the paternal grandparents?
Did they immigrate? Can you find any of their information? That could
help --.

Good luck to you in your research!

Regards,
Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia
Searching Today: Descendants of a woman KATZ >from Ekaterinoslav, who
married a man ROSENBERG in the later part of the last century, and
immigrated in NYC.