main@groups.jewishgen.org

Yurevichi families #belarus

John Lichtenstein

I am researching the Lichtenstein, Sherman and Khazanovski families from Yurevichi. I have the names of the first immigrant generation who arrived between 1880
and 1915. Looking to go back further and establish other connections. names include

Mordecai(Max) Lichtenstein (b 1824, father named Yitzhak),
Bessie Sherman/Khzanovski Lichtenstein (b 1852, father Moshe Yitzhak)
Tzvi Hirsch Lichtenstein (b 1862, father Joseph)
Sulik Lichtenstein (b. 1892, father Mordecai Zalman)
Shermans include: Aaron, Samual, Joseph, Max - all born between 1864 and 1890

Any information on Yurevichi also appreciated.

John Lichtenstein
MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately

Deciphering an occupation on the 1901 UK census #unitedkingdom

Terry Ashton

#670465

I am hoping that someone can decipher the writing for the occupation of my 2
x GG, Morris Shumofsky from the 1901 UK census in the attachment. The first
part seems to say "Traveller of M....." I cannot make out the last word.
Does someone have some idea as to what it might be please?

Ms Terry Ashton, Australia
PRASHKER-Kalisz; SZUMOWSKI/SHUMOFSKY-Lomza & London; WEINGORT-Poland;
WIERZBOWICZ-Poland; GOLDMAN-Blaszki; SEGAL-SEGALOVITCH-Vilna; GOLTZ-Latvia;
ABRAHAMOVICH-Latvia

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Stanley Diamond

#670464

-

I know I speak for the hundreds of my fellow genealogists who have had the privilege of

having their articles published in Avotaynu when I say that we all owe a debt of gratitude

to Gary Mokotoff and Sallyann Amdur Sack-Pikus.

Avotaynu not only provided us with a platform to share our experience, knowledge and

ideas with the Jewish genealogical world but its very presence and high standards inspired

us to take the time and make the effort to do so. When we questioned ourselves as to

whether an article we had in mind would meet Avotaynu's high standards, Sallyann and

Gary were the welcoming sounding boards to say "go for it" or suggest alternative concepts.

I am sure I am not alone in remembering the many drafts returned to us marked up with

"what do you mean?" or "explain." Their exacting standards made us better and for that

wise counsel, we say thank you, thank you.

With the passage of time, it is easy to forget the unanticipated difficulties associated with

any new venture. So, there is another reason to express our appreciation. We must also

be thankful for Sallyann and Gary's determination to push forward with their vision and

make Avotaynu a success that enables us to now look back on and appreciate its legacy.

Stanley Diamond M.S.M.

Executive Director,

Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

1a.

Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements
From: Gary Mokotoff
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 17:51:11 EDT
-

After 37 years, Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors. The Winter issue of its journal, AVOTAYNU, which is currently being distributed, will be the last edition. The final edition of “Nu? What’s New” was published some weeks ago. Book selling will continue to exist. In anticipation of this day, Avotaynu, Inc sold its book selling business to a company in Massachusetts more than a year ago, and it is operating in a normal manner. Books ordered through the Avotaynu.com site are processed by this company.

During its 37-year tenure, Avotaynu Inc produced 145 issues of its journal AVOTAYNU, more than 500 editions of its ezine, “Nu? What’s Nu?” and more than 80 books. Five of its books received awards and in 2004, the company received the “Body of Work” Award of the Association of Jewish Libraries.

Avotaynu’s doors may reopen in the future. We are looking into various methods of advancing Jewish genealogy using the internet.

Sallyann Amdur Sack-Pikus

Gary Mokotoff

Stanley Diamond, M.S.M. (Montreal, 514-484-0100)

Executive Director, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland, Inc.

Visit: JRI-Poland.org Donate at: JRI-Poland.org/support.htm

Read how you can make a significant difference for our future: JRI-poland.org/nextgeneration.pdf

Become a member today! https://mailchi.mp/jri-poland.org/join-our-new-membership-program2?e=56a4938e3e

Read our newsletters: https://us8.campaign-archive.com/home/?u=cf271b2be3a81e9f5f76c68e7&id=54b36ba3ad

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Topics in this digest:

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1.	Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements
2.	Re: 1930's Vienna: Swim Clubs & Thermal Baths #austria-czech
3.	Need translation of cyrillic text on card (2) #russia #translation
4.	Re: I Waited 18 Months For ONE LOUSY PAGE (Not Even A Full Page)?! What Is This Thing Anyway? (2) #records
5.	Sadie Pickholtz #usa #records
6.	Re: Yizkor Book Report for June 2022 #yizkorbooks #JewishGenUpdates
7.	Re: Translation Needed - Record of death #romania #translation
8.	Re: military uniforms in family photos #general
9.	Trying to connect the dots-Roth family of Sanok (2) #israel

messages:

.

1a.

Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements
From: Gary Mokotoff
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 17:51:11 EDT

After 37 years, Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors. The Winter issue of its journal, AVOTAYNU, which is currently being distributed, will be the last edition. The final edition of “Nu? What’s New” was published some weeks ago. Book selling will continue to exist. In anticipation of this day, Avotaynu, Inc sold its book selling business to a company in Massachusetts more than a year ago, and it is operating in a normal manner. Books ordered through the Avotaynu.com site are processed by this company.

During its 37-year tenure, Avotaynu Inc produced 145 issues of its journal AVOTAYNU, more than 500 editions of its ezine, “Nu? What’s Nu?” and more than 80 books. Five of its books received awards and in 2004, the company received the “Body of Work” Award of the Association of Jewish Libraries.

Avotaynu’s doors may reopen in the future. We are looking into various methods of advancing Jewish genealogy using the internet.

Sallyann Amdur Sack-Pikus

Gary Mokotoff

2a.

Re: 1930's Vienna: Swim Clubs & Thermal Baths #austria-czech
From: avivahpinski@...
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:47:12 EDT

My father, Alexander Uszer Zuchman, who came from Poland in 1920, was a manager of the Hakoah soccer team/club in NYC during the 1920s. I have a photo someplace and he talked about it. Is there information available anyplace about the Hakoah organization in NYC in the 1920s?
--
Avivah R. Z. Pinski , near Philadelphia, USA

3a.

Need translation of cyrillic text on card #russia #translation
From: rharpaz@...
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:47:20 EDT

I would be most appreciative if someone could translate the text on the front and back of this card (the photo is my grandmother). Thanks in advance!

Rafael Harpaz

Attachments:

3b.

Re: Need translation of cyrillic text on card
From: laetitiamichel471@...
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 04:26:41 EDT

Hello,

Photography on the left:
From left to right:
Photography
Honored
Gold medal
Brussels 1905
(can not read the word that surrounds the flowers because these are letters written in a way I can not decipher)
B (followed by a letter that seems an ancient cyrillic letter) lostok
Lipovaia Street D. Kaletskavo
lower left corner of the photograph on the left: Negatives are stored.

Best regards,

Laetitia Michel

4a.

Re: I Waited 18 Months For ONE LOUSY PAGE (Not Even A Full Page)?! What Is This Thing Anyway? #records
From: Jx. Gx.
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:47:30 EDT

Martin,

In your post you did not mention whether or not you sent your request as a Freedom of Information Act/Privacy Act (FOIA/PA) because that should have made a difference in the way your request was handled. If you sent it as a FOIA/PA request there are certain key words that you must use in your letter for it to be treated as a FOIA. Further, you have to be specific in the types of documents that you want. In this last regard, you were very specific in asking for her visa file. In the letter that you received from that USCIS bureaucrat, I get the impression from the second and third paragraphs in his letter that he has more documents, but isn't willing to release them. While FOIA does not guarantee the full release of all documents in the federal government's possession, he knows well enough they can redact certain information or deny release entirely of certain documents based on any one or combination of the nine exemptions allowed under the FOIA program. But he has chosen not to take this extra step, mostly likely because it requires additional work on his part.

I suggest that you take a second look at your initial letter to USCIS and check to make sure it follows the exact wording of an approved FOIA letter. A lot of different federal agencies have sample FOIA letters on their webpages. You might also try https://www.foia.gov/faq.html That site lists the 9 FOIA exemptions. If your initial letter covered all the bases, then you might want to consider taking the advice of another Jewishgenner who suggested writing to your House Representative or Senator and request their assistance in obtaining the information you need.

Jeffrey Gee
Arizona

4b.

Re: I Waited 18 Months For ONE LOUSY PAGE (Not Even A Full Page)?! What Is This Thing Anyway?
From: Martin Kaminer
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:38:56 EDT

When I first submitted my request and paid the $65, it said the average time to complete a request was 60 days. After I filed and paid I watched that rise to 90 days, 120 days and on and on. At a year, i bought a birthday card for a one-year-old and inscribed in it all sorts of best wishes for my request on the occasion of its first birthday. I sent it care of Daniel Edgington, the director of the USCIS Genealogy service. Did not receive a reply. I hope they at least threw it a nice party.
Martin Kaminer
New York

5a.

Sadie Pickholtz #usa #records
From: Steve Pickoltz
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 20:42:20 EDT

Is anyone traveling to Philadelphia City Hall's marriage bureau or archive center in the near future?

A Sadie Pickholtz and a Jack (Hymas- misspelled in places) Hyman, applied for a marriage license in 1941 and married that year in Phila. The cert # is 732120 and file # is 4143690. I am trying to find out if it states Jack was married before and if so, what may have happend to wife #1. I found a Jack Hyman married to a Anna (somebody) in the 1930 census living in Jersey City, NJ with the same occupation, butcher as my Jack Hyman.

Are these the same Jack Hyman or are there two Jacks?

Steve Pickholtz

nj55turtle@...

6a.

Re: Yizkor Book Report for June 2022 #yizkorbooks #JewishGenUpdates
From: Wendy Kalman
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 21:39:23 EDT

I came across an item about a book for Mogilev Podolsky that was acquired a decade ago. See https://www.jewishgen.org/Ukraine/RES_collection.asp?id=1171. From what I gather here, the boo has been scanned, but not translated. Are scans ever made avaialble online even before translations are? And may I ask, would you be please able to find out where this stands? It is consdiered a Mogilev-Podolsky project and not a yizkor book project?

Thank you for any light you can shed on this for me.

Regards,
Wendy Kalman
wendybkalman@...
Acworth, GA

Looking for BERG and TEPLITSKY in Mogilev-Podolsky (and a bunch of other names elsewhere)

7a.

Re: Translation Needed - Record of death #romania #translation
From: nance2u@...
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 21:39:42 EDT

Thank you so much! I was confused by the 2 different languages as well.

I was hoping the record would mention Burach, my great-grandfather's name. The Jankef name is unusual, I've never heard it, but it is clearly an f and not an l. Perhaps it was supposed to be Jankel.

In any case, I really appreciate your help.

Nancy Kleinrok
Los Angeles, CA USA

8a.

Re: military uniforms in family photos #general
From: Helen Gottesman
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 21:52:07 EDT

check with uniformology.com. they are the experts

Helen Gottesman

Delicious Spoonfuls, Inc.

561-676-2078 cell

helengottesman2001@...

chefhelen@...

amazingabilities.wordpress.com

http://www.paypal.me/Spoonfuls

--

Helen Gottesman

Boca Raton, Florida

Searching Schwarz Roding Germany
Dobrin,Davidsohn,Segall. Lublinski in Bukofzer Tuchel/Tuchola Poland/West Prussia
Greenhut/Grunhut Germany, Bohemia/Czechlovakia
Bukofzer, Zempelburg, West prussia/Poland

9a.

Trying to connect the dots-Roth family of Sanok #israel
From: phyllis roth
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:15:22 EDT

Hi,
I have been doing a ton of research on the Roth family of Sanok. Specifically the descendants of Leibuscz and Sheindla Roth. I believe they had many children, most of whom died (motly decendants) in the Shoah. Of the siblings to my greatgrandfather Mechel Roth (Son of Leibuscz and Sheindel of Sanok) there was a sibling Jozef Roth married to Hencze Alster. I have found that Hencze may have made it to Israel. 2 daughters did as well.

Link to one daughter, Sara Roth Willner 's grave, https://gravez.me/deceased/1CC74706-41DA-45B8-8B59-2AB388201166. As it mentions on the grave she was a grandmother. Trying to locate her grandchildren.

Sara had a son Jacob who married a Rivka. Both buried in Israel. Here are the graves for Jacob and Rivka. https://gravez.me/deceased/AD309FE1-910C-4FDC-9FE7-53B1B17BAE35.

Sara had a daughter Shoshana Vilner Kuperberg, also buried in Israel.

Many Thanks,
Phyllis Roth (Greatgrandughter of Mechel Roth, brother to Sara's Father Josef)

9b.

Re: Trying to connect the dots-Roth family of Sanok
From: Shimy Karni
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 04:27:06 EDT

Hello Phyllis,

My father in law came from Sanok.

We also made a lot of investigations of his family history.

I have the Sanok Yizkor book, where the Roth family appears a couple of times.

Also in Jri-Poland you may find your family, as we found our whole family.

I hope it helps,

Shimi Karni, Israel

‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 20 ביולי 2022 ב-5:15 מאת ‪phyllis roth via groups.jewishgen.org‬‏ <‪phylroth=yahoo.com@...‬‏>:‬

You are receiving this email because you are subscribed to main@... via SMSDIAMOND@.... You can unsubscribe here.

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Julia Trainor

#670463

Thank you for this fine scholarly publication which you have brought to us for so many years. Of course I will miss the delight in finding Avotaynu in my mail box each quarter, but I am overwhelmingly grateful for your outstanding service to genealogy publishing over many years.

May you enjoy more rest and good health in the years ahead!

Julia Trainor
Canberra, Australia

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Marcel Apsel

#670462

It is very sad that Avotaynu is stopping their activities. I had the privilege for being about the first 20 years the contributing editor from Belgium for Avotaynu and Sallyann and Gary were tremendous in their goal to develop Jewish genealogical activities by all means. I remember meeting by coincidence Sallyann in 1984 in Jerusalem at Yad Vashem and she asked me to become the contributing editor for Belgium for Avotaynu; in her enthusiasm this was even not a question, but rather a statement she made, where I even did not have any chance to think it over or refuse it (anyhow I never regret to accept becoming a contributing editor); result – about 25 articles about matters of Jewish genealogical research and activities in Belgium and a chapter about Belgium in the Encyclopedia of Jewish genealogy together with 2 colleagues of the Belgium JGS. I will never forget the positive way Sallyann pushed everybody to improve means of Jewish genealogy. Thank you Sallyann and Gary for all you have done for Jewish genealogy and I think the Jewish genealogical family should give both of them a unique and special reward for all the efforts they have made to improve Jewish genealogy worldwide.

Marcel Apsel

Antwerpen, Belgium

Former contributing editor for Avotaynu

Vice-president of the JGS of Belgium

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Jack & Anna Hyman and Sadie Pickholtz #usa

Steve Pickoltz

#670461

To all my fellow geners----- THANK YOU.

So many of you have tried to help me in my search for info on Jack's first wife (maybe) and how he met and married my aunt Sadie Pickholtz. Yes, there are missing years of info, prior to the 1930 Jersey City, NJ US census as well as the years prior to his marriage to my aunt in 1941. But with the suggestions many of you have suggested, with a little work (a lot), I may be able to answer and solve the mystery.

Thanks again to all.

Steve Pickholtz

Tabernacle, NJ

nj55turtle@...

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Moishe Miller

#670460

Gary and Sallyann,

Hearing the news about Avotaynu's last issue, I have a heavy heart. Yet, I feel I must also show my public appreciation for all that you have contributed to the field of Jewish Genealogy. You also touched me directly. There were so many countless ways. Some that stand out from my own interests and experience:

You advocated for Standards.
You wrote a book on locating details of those that Perished.
You published WOWW, at a time before the internet made much of that research viable.
You published a periodical that offered something to everybody (I think I own about half of them).
You did all that and so much more.

Thank you so much, for enriching my life. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and pray our paths continue to cross.

Stay well and stay safe,
--

Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
moishe.miller@...
JGFF #3391

ViewMate translation request - Russian #translation

Avi Bitron

#670459

I've posted a vital record in Russian for which I would appreciate a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address:

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM99258

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you very much.

Avi Biton

--
Avi Biton
Israel

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Arlene Beare

#670458

I am sorry to hear this. Thank you Gary and Sally for the wonderful contribution you have made to Jewish genealogy. The interesting articles over all the years have been eagerly awaited and will be really missed. I wish you both good health and all the best for the future. I shall treasure all the Issues I have saved over many years
Arlene Beare UK
Co- Director Latvia and Estonia SIG

ViewMate translation request - #romania #translation

Vincent Hoffmann-Martinot

#670457

Subj: ViewMate translation request - Romanian

I've posted a vital record in Romanian for which I need a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM99291
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM99290
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM99289

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you very much.

Vincent Hoffmann-Martinot

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

Deborah Long

#670456

Gary and Sally,

I am so sorry to hear that Avotanyu is closing its doors. What a loss for the Jewish genealogical community.

I was able to connect with so many people, including distant cousins, because of your publication. I've learned so much from your contributors.

Avotanyu also provided me with a way of sharing my stories and research with others.

Thank you for your lifetime of contributions.

Debbie Long
Triangle JGS (Chapel Hill, Durham, Raleigh/ NC)
Always looking for GALAS and DOBRZYNSKI of Lodz, Poland;
WEISZ and MUNK of Ujpest, Hungary;
TREIBER and KRAEMER of Dobromyl, Poland/Ukraine

Re: SSDI #usa #records

jbonline1111@...

#670455

Other possible sources are dead fred and legacy.com. A friend who has a subscription to newspapers.com found an obituary I wanted as well as information subsequent to the death of my great-uncle "between two cars," as his 1916 death certificate stated. Turns out he was crushed at work between trolley cars and his wife was suing.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Zambrow project #poland #records

Esther Brill

#670454

I am interested in finding out how to get access to records with the names Jablonski/ska, Goldberg and LEW
LEWIN
LEWIŃSKA
LEWIŃSKI
LEWITA

Thank you
Esther Levine Brill

Re: Avotaynu Inc is closing its doors #announcements

jbonline1111@...

#670453

Gary, through Avotaynu and your own personal help, I had a great launch into Jewish genealogy in the 1980s. Thanks for all you have done and keep doing.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Re: Avotaynu Publication and Nu?hat's New? #usa

Marla Waltman

#670452

I am very disappointed and saddened to lose such an amazingly rich and diverse resource as Avotaynu. I have been subscribing for many years and the issues I received have been pored over, kept on my bookshelves, and revisited countless times. To lose Avotaynu is to lose a precious friend that has supported my genealogical research for decades. I am sure, however, that Gary and Ruth, as well as Sallyann and others who have worked so hard over the decades, will appreciate leaving the brutal deadlines behind. Sending my thanks for your dedication to creating a superb journal for Jewish genealogists. It will definitely be missed. May you all understand how much your brainchild has been appreciated.

Marla Waltman
Toronto, ON, Canada

Re: I Waited 18 Months For ONE LOUSY PAGE (Not Even A Full Page)?! What Is This Thing Anyway? #records

Brian Kerr

#670451

I'm retired from both the Military and as a Government Employee myself and I'm not surprised, but to a point.

Obtaining records from a Government Entity can be an extremely frustrating "process", but NOBODY should experience this same frustration from the "service".

There's so many avenues/agencies in obtaining a record.

For example... Something like the image/record for a Birth Certificate can/should be held at the Local and State level (some states hold them at the county level too).

It's very, very seldom for me to reach out with an Executive Inquiry/Complaint (which is basically the Governor/local legislators) or a Presidential/Congressional Inquiry/Complaint (Congressional is basically the Federal Senate and House leaders from that state).

Always remember that if a complaint of that nature is made, always try first with the department/agency heads first. This will reflect the avenues taken (or attempted to take) and places your issue(s) in a higher priority (aka using the chain of command/supervisors).

The above information is a basic rundown, but I hope I had explained this okay via text. :-))

I wish you all the best of luck!

-- ~Brian D. Kerr, Esq | SSG, U.S. Army (Retired) | SSA, Brigade G1, U.S. Army (Retired) |>>Known Family Surnames (Researching): Dessler, Walk(Valk), Mahler (Maler), Paradisgarten (Paradisegarten), Tomasy (Thomashy), Gluck, Preisz (Priess), Steinhardt (Steinhart), Grossman (Grosman), Sholtz (Shultz), Kaplan, Bloom, Fischer (Fisher), Levy, Baum, Duwidewic, Meisal (Maisel)<<|>>Known Family Locations/Regions (of Surnames): Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania<<|

Oregon Jewish Museum projects #jgs-iajgs #events #announcements

Linda Kelley

#670450

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Oregon invites you to

Paying It Forward: OJMCHE Transcription Projects and Tips
Alisha Babbstein and Ann LeVant Prahl

Sunday, 7 August 2022
10:30 a.m. Pacific Time, via Zoom, free
In pursuit of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Oregon's (JGSO) mission statement, "Members helping members connect with their Jewish ancestry,” we are partnering with the Oregon Jewish Museum and Center for Holocaust Education (OJMCHE) for our August program.
All of our Zoom meetings feature closed captioning.

To register in advance for this meeting:
http://sites.rootsweb.com/~orjgs/
After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the meeting.
Calendar of JGSO’s upcoming events: http://sites.rootsweb.com/~orjgs/calendar%20new.html

Linda W. Kelley
JGSO Secretary
Portland, OR, USA

Re: Please assist with headstone translation #translation

davidmdubin@...

#670449

The crown on our heads has fallen. A man
… in god’s Torah
… honored our teacher and rabbi
Moshe Heshel son of Eli’ (Elijah) Yitzchak (Isaac)
He departed to his eternal home on the holy sabbath
… in the year (5)67_ by the short count (ie, leaving out the thousands place) may his soul be bound in the bonds of (everlasting) life (a common abbreviation taken from the book of Samuel)

sorry that’s the best I can do.
--
David Dubin
Teaneck, NJ

Re: I Waited 18 Months For ONE LOUSY PAGE (Not Even A Full Page)?! What Is This Thing Anyway? #records

mpipik

#670448

Is anyone surprised by this? I'm not. All levels of government had major losses of staff when Covid arrived. Many of the older and thus more knowledgeable people retired. Others have now quit for better pay in the private sector and then, of course, there were those who succumbed to Covid. Given how things have been in the US over the past 2 1/2 years, I don't think any anger about these issues serves any purpose.

Jessica Schein
NYC

Re: Trying to connect the dots-Roth family of Sanok #israel

goldnerjeff

#670447

My Roth family (many) came from not too far away, Niebylec. My Adler family came from Dobra, next town to Sanok. I also have connection to an ALSTER family on my other side, but I don't know where in Poland they originated. Even a WILLNER (by marriage).
--
Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Gluck, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz/Zuckerman/Zicherman (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania), Wald and Grunfeld (Secovce, Slovakia fka Galszecs)