Michael STRICKS (Stryks?), a Pikholz descendant, was a tenor in the
Vienna Opera and also sang in the Seitenstatergasse Synagogue
in Vienna. I am not sure how old he was, but he had a brother
(older?) born 1876.

Does anyone know where that might show up in print?

Israel Pickholtz

I will be in Bismarck next week on a trip across the country and need
some directions to cemeteries. If there is a kind 'genner out there in
the Bismarck area, please reply privately.

Chuck Weinstein
cweinstein@...

Your great grandparents graves are missing in Oradea, Romania? Well my gr
gr grandfather's grave is missing here in Buffalo, NY in Beth El Cemetery!
And I know the woman who organized the records, who was looking for him
especially.

Lots can happen even without wars and such. At the local cemetery, there
are lots of older stones that are unreadable. And the records are...not
perfect shall we say. They have a dozen burials that they don't know who
is in them, but they know someone is. And they have other spots where
people may be buried, maybe. They have some records of people who are
there, but they don't know where. And some, like my gr grandfather who's
death certificate says he is there, but they have no idea where.

There are a few other complications. If he had died a few years earlier, he
would have been in the 'old' cemetery which was moved to the new one. They
have the stones piled up in the back (no way to sort through them unless
you are Goliath). And of course the records are worse.

So keep looking, but don't be surprised if you don't find them.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

I'm not sure why, but on my great-grandfather's Declaration of Intention,
he listed my great-grandmother's name as Anna, but on the Petition for
Naturalization, he listed it as Hinde. Her name was always Hinde to the
family.

Larry Kriv
Garland, TX

Jackye Sullins wrote:

In a message dated 8/7/2001 9:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
RoniKrinsky@... writes:
<< Was it rare to have a photo on a tombstone? Did it have any

special meaning? >>

Michael Bernet responded:

==It was (and still is) somewhat tacky. It is certainly not
according to Jewish tradition.

==You'll generally find it in communities with strong endeavors
to appear as "modern" (i.e. assimilated) and as opulent (i.e. they
weren't) as their neighbors.

Photos on tombstones is a common practice in Russia and in
neighboring countries. It seems to have been an almost universal
practice in cemeteries that I visited in those areas, though I
agree that it probably would not be done among Orthodox Jews,
regardless of where they lived. I have also seen it frequently
here in the U.S. on graves of immigrants >from the former Soviet
Union. On the other hand, I have never seen this done on the
stones of Western Europeans, assimilated or not.

Nathan Reiss
Highland Park, NJ

Researching: REISS, BAUM, GOTTLIEB, LILIENSTEIN, EDELMUTH,
GRIESHEIM, MAY, MAYERFELD,
METZGER, LIPPMANN, all >from Hesse, Germany;
GOLDBLUM, FREYLICH, MELLER >from Olkusz, Russo-Poland;
KRIEGER >from Oswiecim (Auschwitz), Austro-Poland.

From: RoniKrinsky@... (Roni Krinsky)

Was it rare to have a photo on a tombstone? Did it have any special
meaning?

In response to Roni's note, my GGrandmother has her picture on her
tombstone. The cemetery is located in Elizabeth, NJ.
According to family, her name was originally spelled wrong on the stone
so the photo covers the incorrect letter.

Melinda Korbman
Robbinsville,NJ

Searching: Green/Grin/Gryn-Bychawa & Kielczewice, Poland; Stern, Bychawa,
Poland; Beacher-Krynki & Bialystok Poland; Susser/Shusser-Lepel, Belarus;
Horowitz-Vitebsk,Belarus; Korbman/Korman-(Troky)Trakai, Lithuania

I know this is a long shot.

I recently got a copy of a picture (a bad copy) that was downloaded from
a web site that no longer exits. I believe it was site run by Bruce
Bertram who died a few years ago. The picture includes several people

from families that I am interested in - Abramovich, Berch , Feldman - at

a wedding in Winnipeg.

Does anyone know if there is someone out there who has taken up the
genealogy research Mr. Bertram was working on. I am interested in
information on Teresa Abramovich and her connection to the Berch family.

Barry Chernick
Bellevue, WA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

The people in London may have gone to London and then changed their minds
(or earned some money) and came to the US. I have a cousin who's
grandfather was born in Holland (in 1831) according to her, her father was
born in London, and she is living in California. So it goes in stages.

There was, however, what are best known as Hamburg Indirect Passenger
Lists. These are people who left Hamburg on ships which stopped in
England, the people crossed England and got on other ships on the Atlantic
coast. That was the intended path to America. I'm sure it wasn't only
Hamburg, that is just where the records exist. It may have been cheaper,
or it may have been what was available locally, but it wasn't uncommon to
go through England.

I don't know what your exact questions at the end mean-there wasn't any
application.

The easiest thing is to check the Indirect Passenger Lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

Researching Madnick >from South Fallsburg,NY
Family married into the Seidel family. Owned
Madnicks bakery.

James H. Gross
Cherry Hill, N.J.
e-mail: larklane@...
Gross-Steinberg Family Tree
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6721/

I will be in Bismarck next week on a trip across the country and need
some directions to cemeteries. If there is a kind 'genner out there in
the Bismarck area, please reply privately.

Chuck Weinstein
cweinstein@...

I know this is a long shot.

I recently got a copy of a picture (a bad copy) that was downloaded from
a web site that no longer exits. I believe it was site run by Bruce
Bertram who died a few years ago. The picture includes several people

from families that I am interested in - Abramovich, Berch , Feldman - at

a wedding in Winnipeg.

Does anyone know if there is someone out there who has taken up the
genealogy research Mr. Bertram was working on. I am interested in
information on Teresa Abramovich and her connection to the Berch family.

Barry Chernick
Bellevue, WA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Michael STRICKS (Stryks?), a Pikholz descendant, was a tenor in the
Vienna Opera and also sang in the Seitenstatergasse Synagogue
in Vienna. I am not sure how old he was, but he had a brother
(older?) born 1876.

Does anyone know where that might show up in print?

Israel Pickholtz

In a message dated 8/7/2001 9:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
RoniKrinsky@... writes:
<< Was it rare to have a photo on a tombstone? Did it have any

special meaning? >>

Michael Bernet responded:

==It was (and still is) somewhat tacky. It is certainly not
according to Jewish tradition.

==You'll generally find it in communities with strong endeavors
to appear as "modern" (i.e. assimilated) and as opulent (i.e. they
weren't) as their neighbors.

Photos on tombstones is a common practice in Russia and in
neighboring countries. It seems to have been an almost universal
practice in cemeteries that I visited in those areas, though I
agree that it probably would not be done among Orthodox Jews,
regardless of where they lived. I have also seen it frequently
here in the U.S. on graves of immigrants >from the former Soviet
Union. On the other hand, I have never seen this done on the
stones of Western Europeans, assimilated or not.

Nathan Reiss
Highland Park, NJ

Researching: REISS, BAUM, GOTTLIEB, LILIENSTEIN, EDELMUTH,
GRIESHEIM, MAY, MAYERFELD,
METZGER, LIPPMANN, all >from Hesse, Germany;
GOLDBLUM, FREYLICH, MELLER >from Olkusz, Russo-Poland;
KRIEGER >from Oswiecim (Auschwitz), Austro-Poland.

Your great grandparents graves are missing in Oradea, Romania? Well my gr
gr grandfather's grave is missing here in Buffalo, NY in Beth El Cemetery!
And I know the woman who organized the records, who was looking for him
especially.

Lots can happen even without wars and such. At the local cemetery, there
are lots of older stones that are unreadable. And the records are...not
perfect shall we say. They have a dozen burials that they don't know who
is in them, but they know someone is. And they have other spots where
people may be buried, maybe. They have some records of people who are
there, but they don't know where. And some, like my gr grandfather who's
death certificate says he is there, but they have no idea where.

There are a few other complications. If he had died a few years earlier, he
would have been in the 'old' cemetery which was moved to the new one. They
have the stones piled up in the back (no way to sort through them unless
you are Goliath). And of course the records are worse.

So keep looking, but don't be surprised if you don't find them.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

Researching Madnick >from South Fallsburg,NY
Family married into the Seidel family. Owned
Madnicks bakery.

James H. Gross
Cherry Hill, N.J.
e-mail: larklane@...
Gross-Steinberg Family Tree
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6721/

I'm not sure why, but on my great-grandfather's Declaration of Intention,
he listed my great-grandmother's name as Anna, but on the Petition for
Naturalization, he listed it as Hinde. Her name was always Hinde to the
family.

Larry Kriv
Garland, TX

Jackye Sullins wrote:

The people in London may have gone to London and then changed their minds
(or earned some money) and came to the US. I have a cousin who's
grandfather was born in Holland (in 1831) according to her, her father was
born in London, and she is living in California. So it goes in stages.

There was, however, what are best known as Hamburg Indirect Passenger
Lists. These are people who left Hamburg on ships which stopped in
England, the people crossed England and got on other ships on the Atlantic
coast. That was the intended path to America. I'm sure it wasn't only
Hamburg, that is just where the records exist. It may have been cheaper,
or it may have been what was available locally, but it wasn't uncommon to
go through England.

I don't know what your exact questions at the end mean-there wasn't any
application.

The easiest thing is to check the Indirect Passenger Lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

From: RoniKrinsky@... (Roni Krinsky)

Was it rare to have a photo on a tombstone? Did it have any special
meaning?

In response to Roni's note, my GGrandmother has her picture on her
tombstone. The cemetery is located in Elizabeth, NJ.
According to family, her name was originally spelled wrong on the stone
so the photo covers the incorrect letter.

Melinda Korbman
Robbinsville,NJ

Searching: Green/Grin/Gryn-Bychawa & Kielczewice, Poland; Stern, Bychawa,
Poland; Beacher-Krynki & Bialystok Poland; Susser/Shusser-Lepel, Belarus;
Horowitz-Vitebsk,Belarus; Korbman/Korman-(Troky)Trakai, Lithuania

Regarding the discussion of photos on gravestones, it has become apparent
in the last few years in America in cemeteries where there are burials

from the former Russian Empire or burials >from other countries that have

this custom, that photos have been incorporated into the tombstones.

Whilst some individuals have mentioned that it is a tacky custom, or one
that is not within Jewish law (who knew >from photographs four thousand
years ago), it is a boon to genealogists, who will now have a visual
record of a long dead relative who they may or may not have known.

During my travels in cemeteries in South Florida and New York, it has
become an interesting sidelight to note the burgeoning proliferation of
photographs and to stop and look at them and to determine where the
individuals were >from and what their origins were.

In addition, it is not only photographs that have taken hold in Jewish
cemeteries, but flower recepticles, plastic flower arrangements and other
previously non-Jewish traditions. I have even seen toys left at the grave
by grieving grandchildren.

Afterall, the idea in Jewish tradition is that the loved one be remembered.
Modern times mean updated or unusual practices. It is also the case that
there are now many non-Jewish relatives and descendants of those who are
buried and they may chose to remember their relative in different ways.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@...

Roni Krinsky <RoniKrinsky@...> asked...

Was it rare to have a photo on a tombstone?

It was common enough to inspire a recent NYC exhibit of John Yang's
photographs of the small "enamels" he found on stones at Mount Zion
Cemetery (Maspeth, Queens). A 112-page book, "John Yang/Mount Zion:
Sepulchral Portraits" (ISBN 891024-23-X), was published at the time
of the show. There's a copy in the Mount Zion office and it can be
purchased online.

For details, see the gallery web site at
http://www.johnstevenson-gallery.com/Yang_Text.html

and the April 27, 2001 NY Times article at
http://college2.nytimes.com/guests/articles/2001/04/27/844084.xml

(JewishGenner Cherie Lifton referred us to this article the day it was
published.)

Renee

Renee Steinig
Dix Hills (Long Island), New York, USA
RSteinig@...