...for those who think "why bother?" This newly produced CD-ROM makes
searching a non-soundexed state a relative breeze. <g>

Only 21 states were soundexed for the 1910 census: Alabama,
Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas,
Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina,
Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia,
and West Virginia.

Carol Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Operations

Eliyahu, Eli, Eliezer are common English versions of Elyash.

Harvey Kaplan

Glasgow, Scotland

...for those who think "why bother?" This newly produced CD-ROM makes
searching a non-soundexed state a relative breeze. <g>

Only 21 states were soundexed for the 1910 census: Alabama,
Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas,
Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina,
Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia,
and West Virginia.

Carol Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Operations

Eliyahu, Eli, Eliezer are common English versions of Elyash.

Harvey Kaplan

Glasgow, Scotland

1) Is there any list of students who attended the Slabodka Yeshiva in
the 1890's and onward?

2) Is there a book that lists all Rabbis and their biographies from
lithuania?I REMEMBER SEEING SOMETHING IN hEBREW MANY YEARS AGO. iT EVEN
HAD PICTURES OF SOME OF THEM.

e.Caplan

1) Is there any list of students who attended the Slabodka Yeshiva in
the 1890's and onward?

2) Is there a book that lists all Rabbis and their biographies from
lithuania?I REMEMBER SEEING SOMETHING IN hEBREW MANY YEARS AGO. iT EVEN
HAD PICTURES OF SOME OF THEM.

e.Caplan

In a message dated 8/3/2001 2:23:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
clifton208@... writes:

<< In l923 in a small NY State town, a relative - a
veteran of WWI - died as a result of an automobile
accident. (I have copies of the newspaper account of
the accident and his death). Because the death was not
considered a "natural" death, the family was refused
permission to bury him in the local Jewish cemetery.

The town was so small it did not have its own Rabbi
and for a funeral had to send for one >from elsewhere.>>

==maybe that was the problem. Had there been a rabbi, he would have known
that accidental death is no disbarment >from Jewish burial.

==Nor was there any need to send for a rabbi >from elsewhere. A rabbi is
not necessary for burial; any knowledgable Jew who can read the service
is more than adequate.

<< I cannot say what strings the family pulled; I only
know that the burial did take place and in the same
cemetery in which his mother and other relatives were
buried. However, his grave is located in a more
distant location.

It seems to me that I have heard it was the practice
to bury "questionable" deaths in corners, or near fences,
or away >from others. Whether this is a correct
interpretation of how "unnatural" deaths were handled,
I do not know. >>

==Only someone who had excluded him/herself >from the community was buried
near or beyond the fence. Baptism, and in some communities intermarriage
were thus treated. So were suicides--If it could be proved that they had
knowingly defied God with their suicides--most times, however, it was
reasoned that the person had acted in a temporary state of insanity or
despair, and burial was permitted.

==Another seclusion was in the case of cremation. Cremation is forbidden
in Jewish law, and one who had asked to be cremated was considered to have
forsaken Judaism with his death. However, if the cremation was not at his
request, burial was often permitted (e.g. I have seen some burials of Jews
who had been put to death at Dachau in 1938-39, whose ashes were returned
to the family, and who were properly buried. It is possible that the
community refused burial because the corpse or the coffin had not been
prepared according to Jewish custom; certainly a Jewish funeral home would
have provided someone experienced to officiate at the cemetery.

==I assume that the family history, like many, has been embroidered and
embellished. TRhge cart and the horse and the curse certainly add drama!
If burial was denied to Cherie's relative, it was almost certainly for
some other reason than accidental death.

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);
BERNET, BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

In a message dated 8/3/2001 2:23:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
clifton208@... writes:

<< In l923 in a small NY State town, a relative - a
veteran of WWI - died as a result of an automobile
accident. (I have copies of the newspaper account of
the accident and his death). Because the death was not
considered a "natural" death, the family was refused
permission to bury him in the local Jewish cemetery.

The town was so small it did not have its own Rabbi
and for a funeral had to send for one >from elsewhere.>>

==maybe that was the problem. Had there been a rabbi, he would have known
that accidental death is no disbarment >from Jewish burial.

==Nor was there any need to send for a rabbi >from elsewhere. A rabbi is
not necessary for burial; any knowledgable Jew who can read the service
is more than adequate.

<< I cannot say what strings the family pulled; I only
know that the burial did take place and in the same
cemetery in which his mother and other relatives were
buried. However, his grave is located in a more
distant location.

It seems to me that I have heard it was the practice
to bury "questionable" deaths in corners, or near fences,
or away >from others. Whether this is a correct
interpretation of how "unnatural" deaths were handled,
I do not know. >>

==Only someone who had excluded him/herself >from the community was buried
near or beyond the fence. Baptism, and in some communities intermarriage
were thus treated. So were suicides--If it could be proved that they had
knowingly defied God with their suicides--most times, however, it was
reasoned that the person had acted in a temporary state of insanity or
despair, and burial was permitted.

==Another seclusion was in the case of cremation. Cremation is forbidden
in Jewish law, and one who had asked to be cremated was considered to have
forsaken Judaism with his death. However, if the cremation was not at his
request, burial was often permitted (e.g. I have seen some burials of Jews
who had been put to death at Dachau in 1938-39, whose ashes were returned
to the family, and who were properly buried. It is possible that the
community refused burial because the corpse or the coffin had not been
prepared according to Jewish custom; certainly a Jewish funeral home would
have provided someone experienced to officiate at the cemetery.

==I assume that the family history, like many, has been embroidered and
embellished. TRhge cart and the horse and the curse certainly add drama!
If burial was denied to Cherie's relative, it was almost certainly for
some other reason than accidental death.

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);
BERNET, BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Shawn Nelson wrote:

My question is this: I was going to order SS-5's for some deceased family
members (my great grandparents). However, I already have their parent's
names (not specific places of birth though as I can't locate them on EIDB
yet). Now, their parents (my gg grandparents) are all pre-social security
or died around the time social security started (1935 +/-) and I can't
locate them in the Social Security death index for obvious reasons. So,
to be able to trace back another generation what are some of the best
resources?

Shawn,

Death certificates usually include parents names. Hebrew inscriptions on
gravestones should include the father's name.

One thing to be aware of with death records and gravestones is that if the
person reporting the info didn't know the deceased's parents, then the
listed names may not be completely accurate. I have found this case
several times in my own family. So compare the info >from both sources if
at all possible.

Also, early census records and city directories are helpful in determining
what year the person may have immigrated, which then will help you narrow
down your search on the EIDB. If you're lucky, the manifest will list the
name of a sibling or parent.

If anyone has additional suggestions on US resources, I'd love to hear
them too. I don't trust the maiden name of the mother listed on my gggm's
death certificate, but have so far found nothing to compare it against.

Elise Friedman
Columbia, Maryland

Genealogy Chatroom - http://www.chatsystems.com/~elise/jgchat/
My Genealogy Website - http://www.gencircles.com/users/efriedman/
PALEVSKY/PALEFSKY, POLLACK (Horodetz, Kobryn); LIPSCHITZ/LIFSHITZ
(Brisk); GORONOVICH/GORONOWITZ (Grodietsk); COOPER/KUPER
(Drohitchyn); EISNER, SASS (Myslowice); MILLER, TAUB (Dobromil/Byblo);
FRIEDMAN, CHERNACK/CHERMACK (Russia/Poland); CHESIN (Mogilev)

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Shawn Nelson wrote:

My question is this: I was going to order SS-5's for some deceased family
members (my great grandparents). However, I already have their parent's
names (not specific places of birth though as I can't locate them on EIDB
yet). Now, their parents (my gg grandparents) are all pre-social security
or died around the time social security started (1935 +/-) and I can't
locate them in the Social Security death index for obvious reasons. So,
to be able to trace back another generation what are some of the best
resources?

Shawn,

Death certificates usually include parents names. Hebrew inscriptions on
gravestones should include the father's name.

One thing to be aware of with death records and gravestones is that if the
person reporting the info didn't know the deceased's parents, then the
listed names may not be completely accurate. I have found this case
several times in my own family. So compare the info >from both sources if
at all possible.

Also, early census records and city directories are helpful in determining
what year the person may have immigrated, which then will help you narrow
down your search on the EIDB. If you're lucky, the manifest will list the
name of a sibling or parent.

If anyone has additional suggestions on US resources, I'd love to hear
them too. I don't trust the maiden name of the mother listed on my gggm's
death certificate, but have so far found nothing to compare it against.

Elise Friedman
Columbia, Maryland

Genealogy Chatroom - http://www.chatsystems.com/~elise/jgchat/
My Genealogy Website - http://www.gencircles.com/users/efriedman/
PALEVSKY/PALEFSKY, POLLACK (Horodetz, Kobryn); LIPSCHITZ/LIFSHITZ
(Brisk); GORONOVICH/GORONOWITZ (Grodietsk); COOPER/KUPER
(Drohitchyn); EISNER, SASS (Myslowice); MILLER, TAUB (Dobromil/Byblo);
FRIEDMAN, CHERNACK/CHERMACK (Russia/Poland); CHESIN (Mogilev)

At 04:27 PM 8/3/01 -0400, Sally Bruckheimer wrote:

It is certainly possible that the clerk made mistakes on the sex of small
children. After all, it is not obvious, and if the clerk were in a
hurry-who cared (beside us 100 years later).

It is also very possible the clerk made such a mistake with not so small
children.

On a family I found which I strongly believe is my great-grandparents and
their three youngest children, all three children are listed as males. The
two oldest with names transcribed as Sterny (16y) and Chaje (11y) I
believe became Stella and Ida once here. The youngest, Sholen (9y) became
Saul.

Oh... Sterny/Stella would have been my grand-Mother.

I think the immigrants had the attitude, if you'll let me on the ship and
into the US you can call me anything you like.

Bob Wexler
South Wales, NY (Buffalo area)
Reply to: rwexler@...
http://www.buffnet.net/~rwexler
WEXLER (alt. WECHSLER), Lenitz, Shpola, Odessa, Ukraine
SIMON (orig. SCHEN), Beschenkovichi, Vitebsk gubernia
NOTARIUS (alt. NATARIUS), Chashniki, Belarus
GREENBERG/TRAEGER, Tiraspol, Moldova; Odessa, Ukraine

At 04:27 PM 8/3/01 -0400, Sally Bruckheimer wrote:

It is certainly possible that the clerk made mistakes on the sex of small
children. After all, it is not obvious, and if the clerk were in a
hurry-who cared (beside us 100 years later).

It is also very possible the clerk made such a mistake with not so small
children.

On a family I found which I strongly believe is my great-grandparents and
their three youngest children, all three children are listed as males. The
two oldest with names transcribed as Sterny (16y) and Chaje (11y) I
believe became Stella and Ida once here. The youngest, Sholen (9y) became
Saul.

Oh... Sterny/Stella would have been my grand-Mother.

I think the immigrants had the attitude, if you'll let me on the ship and
into the US you can call me anything you like.

Bob Wexler
South Wales, NY (Buffalo area)
Reply to: rwexler@...
http://www.buffnet.net/~rwexler
WEXLER (alt. WECHSLER), Lenitz, Shpola, Odessa, Ukraine
SIMON (orig. SCHEN), Beschenkovichi, Vitebsk gubernia
NOTARIUS (alt. NATARIUS), Chashniki, Belarus
GREENBERG/TRAEGER, Tiraspol, Moldova; Odessa, Ukraine

Yesterday, Town Leader Anne Fendrich <fendrich@...>
posted a message about the Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
project to index the birth, marriage and death records for Sokolow
Podlaski for the years 1826 and 1865 to 1899. These years were
not filmed by the LDS (Mormons). The records are available in
registers at the Siedlce branch of the Polish State Archives.

I am pleased to announce that a surname list, extracted >from
the almost 11,000 records can now be viewed on the JRI-Poland
web site. To view the list, go to the Polish State Archives
project "Status Report" page at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/psa/psastat1.htm

Then click on Siedlce archives, scroll down to Sokolow Podlaski
and click on the link to the 1704 surnames in the records of
this town.

For questions about the Sokolow Podlaski indexing project,
please contact Anne Fendrich at: fendrich@...

Stanley Diamond
Project Coordinator, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

Yesterday, Town Leader Anne Fendrich <fendrich@...>
posted a message about the Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
project to index the birth, marriage and death records for Sokolow
Podlaski for the years 1826 and 1865 to 1899. These years were
not filmed by the LDS (Mormons). The records are available in
registers at the Siedlce branch of the Polish State Archives.

I am pleased to announce that a surname list, extracted >from
the almost 11,000 records can now be viewed on the JRI-Poland
web site. To view the list, go to the Polish State Archives
project "Status Report" page at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/psa/psastat1.htm

Then click on Siedlce archives, scroll down to Sokolow Podlaski
and click on the link to the 1704 surnames in the records of
this town.

For questions about the Sokolow Podlaski indexing project,
please contact Anne Fendrich at: fendrich@...

Stanley Diamond
Project Coordinator, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

The l993 Kartuz Bereza Memorial Book is being translated >from Hebrew
into English as an ongoing and joint project of the BARG (Bereza Area
Research Group) and PURS (Pruzhany Uyzed Research Group).

Chapter 8 has been completed and is now online at:

http://people.netscape.com/morse/barg

This is an ongoing project and previously the large-fold map of
the town showing houses and names of inhabitants was put on
the website along with other material >from the memorial book.

As always we welcome any material that others may have
collected in doing research on the towns of this area.

Thank you.
Diane Glazer (Goloschoff) Jacobs
New York
Researching
GLAZER, GOLOSCHOFF, RABINOWITZ, YOSSELOWITZ, JOSILEWSKY
>from Kartuz Bereza and Argentina
SINGMAN, SCHUMKAV >from Vilna Lithuania
BEGUN, BEGIN, BAGOON >from Pinsk, Belarus and Israel
ALSO STEINBERG, EICHEL, MULLER, MILLER, LESNIE, LEVY, ROSENBERG,
SHALTAKOFF, SALITKOFF, ENGLANDER, HYMES, HAIMOWITZ., DICK, DIKOVSKY,

The l993 Kartuz Bereza Memorial Book is being translated >from Hebrew
into English as an ongoing and joint project of the BARG (Bereza Area
Research Group) and PURS (Pruzhany Uyzed Research Group).

Chapter 8 has been completed and is now online at:

http://people.netscape.com/morse/barg

This is an ongoing project and previously the large-fold map of
the town showing houses and names of inhabitants was put on
the website along with other material >from the memorial book.

As always we welcome any material that others may have
collected in doing research on the towns of this area.

Thank you.
Diane Glazer (Goloschoff) Jacobs
New York
Researching
GLAZER, GOLOSCHOFF, RABINOWITZ, YOSSELOWITZ, JOSILEWSKY
>from Kartuz Bereza and Argentina
SINGMAN, SCHUMKAV >from Vilna Lithuania
BEGUN, BEGIN, BAGOON >from Pinsk, Belarus and Israel
ALSO STEINBERG, EICHEL, MULLER, MILLER, LESNIE, LEVY, ROSENBERG,
SHALTAKOFF, SALITKOFF, ENGLANDER, HYMES, HAIMOWITZ., DICK, DIKOVSKY,

My question is this: I was going to order SS-5's for some deceased family
members (my great grandparents). However, I already have their parent's
names (not specific places of birth though as I can't locate them on EIDB
yet). Now, their parents (my gg grandparents) are all pre-social security
or died around the time social security started (1935 +/-) and I can't
locate them in the Social Security death index for obvious reasons. So, to
be able to trace back another generation what are some of the best
resources? I may order the SS-5's anyway just to see if there happen to be
any unusual spellings of names or different info on places of birth, but
wanted to see what other resources you all might suggest. I'm planning to
attend the JGS Los Angeles chapter meeting/seminar in October at the
Skirball Center but didn't want to wait until then to ask the question.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Shawn Nelson
RABINOWITZ, Kiev or Odessa, Ukraine
HAUPTMAN, Radomsko, Poland
SCHNALL, Zadusniki (?), Austria

My question is this: I was going to order SS-5's for some deceased family
members (my great grandparents). However, I already have their parent's
names (not specific places of birth though as I can't locate them on EIDB
yet). Now, their parents (my gg grandparents) are all pre-social security
or died around the time social security started (1935 +/-) and I can't
locate them in the Social Security death index for obvious reasons. So, to
be able to trace back another generation what are some of the best
resources? I may order the SS-5's anyway just to see if there happen to be
any unusual spellings of names or different info on places of birth, but
wanted to see what other resources you all might suggest. I'm planning to
attend the JGS Los Angeles chapter meeting/seminar in October at the
Skirball Center but didn't want to wait until then to ask the question.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Shawn Nelson
RABINOWITZ, Kiev or Odessa, Ukraine
HAUPTMAN, Radomsko, Poland
SCHNALL, Zadusniki (?), Austria

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I can not be much help but would like to ask where you go the wedding records

from Pruznitz or the other spelling that you have may be a differenent town.

But he question of weeding records is of interest.

George Cohen
Storage By George!
2183 Feliz Drive
Novato, California 94945
Tel: 1-415-898-7363
Fax: 1-415-892-5803
E-mail: georgecoh@...

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I can not be much help but would like to ask where you go the wedding records
<BR>>from Pruznitz or the other spelling that you have may be a differenent town.
<BR>But he question of weeding &nbsp;records is of interest.
<BR>
<BR>George Cohen
<BR>Storage By George!
<BR>2183 Feliz Drive
<BR>Novato, California 94945
<BR>Tel: 1-415-898-7363
<BR>Fax: 1-415-892-5803
<BR>E-mail: georgecoh@...</FONT></HTML>

--part1_e8.1887c680.289b8a41_boundary--

<MBernet@...> wrote:

In a message dated 8/2/2001 ComputerCarolyn@... writes:

Dvevr =

==doesn't look live a Yiddish name to me

Possibly a slight garbling of "Dov-Ber"?

Robert Israel israel@...
Vancouver, BC, Canada