Date   

Re: Can't find Ivia near Vilna - help! #lithuania

Susan M. Rogers <smrogers@...>
 

I've tried MapQuest and the ShtetlSeeker and come up empty in searching for
Ivia, where more than one cousin claims ancestors.

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Susan M. Rogers
smrogers@cousinsplus.com
http://www.cousinsplus.com
researching UBERSTINE, Ostroshitskiy Gorodok, Belarus


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Can't find Ivia near Vilna - help! #lithuania

Susan M. Rogers <smrogers@...>
 

I've tried MapQuest and the ShtetlSeeker and come up empty in searching for
Ivia, where more than one cousin claims ancestors.

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Susan M. Rogers
smrogers@cousinsplus.com
http://www.cousinsplus.com
researching UBERSTINE, Ostroshitskiy Gorodok, Belarus


Polish Massacre #belarus

roman.vilner@...
 

This is an article >from today's NYTimes. Rather
interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/19/world/19POLA.html

PS The NYTimes requires free registration.

Roman Vilner
Brooklyn, NY


Belarus SIG #Belarus Polish Massacre #belarus

roman.vilner@...
 

This is an article >from today's NYTimes. Rather
interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/19/world/19POLA.html

PS The NYTimes requires free registration.

Roman Vilner
Brooklyn, NY


Aberbom #belarus

Gary Schwartz <sammy@...>
 

Gary Schwartz
McBride, BC
Canada

Researching my great grandfather Solomon Aberbom, married in Gomel in 1905


ELLIS ISLAND-CASTLE HARBOR #belarus

theentins <theentins@...>
 

Does anyone have any information about the immigrants to Castle Harbor going
online someday as Ellis Island has done. This would pre 1892 when Ellis
Island opened and replaced Castle Harbor.
This information concerning immigrants >from about 1870 to 1890 would be of
great significance to many of us whose ancestors arrived in New York during
that period and which arrivals are as yet not indexed.

Jeffrey S. Entin
Fall River, MA


Got through(barely)to Ellis Island/update #belarus

Olga G. Parker <OGParker@...>
 

I actually got through in the wee hours last night and saw at least part =
of
some of the records of my family. Not the records I'm still searching, bu=
t
records after my gf and gu were naturalized. You have to be persistent, a=
s
when you get a busy phone signal--don't close out your screen, but hit th=
e
refresh key repeatedly and eventually you should get a screen with your
search. If these records which are online are to go only until 1924, then=
I
am not going to find my gps returning in May 1933 >from a trip they took t=
o
Russia

Be aware: you need to register in order to be able to go further than the=

results of the search, a list of possible matches. It does not mean you
have to join the society, but register your name and e-mail at the very
least, and a user name and password. You need to do this in order to see
the manifest itself. Even this process hits the busy signal as you try to=

send your information, so keep trying.

Now for a question of my own: Is there a separate listing (index) for cre=
w
members of a ship? There is a possibility that my gu arrived in the US as=
a
crew member, and stayed in this country--I do not find him on the Soundex=

Index for NYC, nor in the Ellisislandrecords.or search. =


Good luck to all of you,

Olga Parker/SD
OGParker@compuserve.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Aberbom #belarus

Gary Schwartz <sammy@...>
 

Gary Schwartz
McBride, BC
Canada

Researching my great grandfather Solomon Aberbom, married in Gomel in 1905


Belarus SIG #Belarus ELLIS ISLAND-CASTLE HARBOR #belarus

theentins <theentins@...>
 

Does anyone have any information about the immigrants to Castle Harbor going
online someday as Ellis Island has done. This would pre 1892 when Ellis
Island opened and replaced Castle Harbor.
This information concerning immigrants >from about 1870 to 1890 would be of
great significance to many of us whose ancestors arrived in New York during
that period and which arrivals are as yet not indexed.

Jeffrey S. Entin
Fall River, MA


Belarus SIG #Belarus Got through(barely)to Ellis Island/update #belarus

Olga G. Parker <OGParker@...>
 

I actually got through in the wee hours last night and saw at least part =
of
some of the records of my family. Not the records I'm still searching, bu=
t
records after my gf and gu were naturalized. You have to be persistent, a=
s
when you get a busy phone signal--don't close out your screen, but hit th=
e
refresh key repeatedly and eventually you should get a screen with your
search. If these records which are online are to go only until 1924, then=
I
am not going to find my gps returning in May 1933 >from a trip they took t=
o
Russia

Be aware: you need to register in order to be able to go further than the=

results of the search, a list of possible matches. It does not mean you
have to join the society, but register your name and e-mail at the very
least, and a user name and password. You need to do this in order to see
the manifest itself. Even this process hits the busy signal as you try to=

send your information, so keep trying.

Now for a question of my own: Is there a separate listing (index) for cre=
w
members of a ship? There is a possibility that my gu arrived in the US as=
a
crew member, and stayed in this country--I do not find him on the Soundex=

Index for NYC, nor in the Ellisislandrecords.or search. =


Good luck to all of you,

Olga Parker/SD
OGParker@compuserve.com


Re: Surnames in Russian census #ukraine

Andrew S. Bushkin <ASBUSHKIN@...>
 

Relative to when Jews may have begun to use surnames in Russian census
activity: In Ukraine our family name was Babushkin (traced to Chernigov to
about 1860). This name has been used both by Jews and non-Jews. In one
reference to tax records originally appearing in the Novgorod Chronicles, as
reflected in a History of Russian Surnames published in St. Petersburg in
1902, there existed in Kastroma in 1492 one Ivashko Babushkin.

Best regards,

Andrew S. Bushkin
Bellevue, WA, USA
ASBushkin@prodigy.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Knisbacher <jknisbac@softhome.net>
To: Ukraine SIG <ukraine@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: [ukraine] Re: Surnames in Russian census

Surnames in Russian census:

My guess is that it was 1811. At least we got some census results back
from Anton Valdine in Moscow a couple of years ago that began with
information >from that date. On the other hand, I wonder if the surnames
that were chosen (or given out?) at around that time may not have been
used
by family members way before then, especially if they had roots in
Czechoslovakia (where the Prague Jewish cemetery shows surnames >from at
least as early as the 1500s), or other parts more northerly or westerly
(e.g., Spain, where surnames were used a few hundred years even before
that). Jeff Knisbacher, Owings Mills, MD

----- Original Message -----

Who know when Jews in Russian Empire census in Ukraine began to use
surname
in census? 1795? 1811?

Regards Kolker Alexander


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Surnames in Russian census #ukraine

Andrew S. Bushkin <ASBUSHKIN@...>
 

Relative to when Jews may have begun to use surnames in Russian census
activity: In Ukraine our family name was Babushkin (traced to Chernigov to
about 1860). This name has been used both by Jews and non-Jews. In one
reference to tax records originally appearing in the Novgorod Chronicles, as
reflected in a History of Russian Surnames published in St. Petersburg in
1902, there existed in Kastroma in 1492 one Ivashko Babushkin.

Best regards,

Andrew S. Bushkin
Bellevue, WA, USA
ASBushkin@prodigy.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Knisbacher <jknisbac@softhome.net>
To: Ukraine SIG <ukraine@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: [ukraine] Re: Surnames in Russian census

Surnames in Russian census:

My guess is that it was 1811. At least we got some census results back
from Anton Valdine in Moscow a couple of years ago that began with
information >from that date. On the other hand, I wonder if the surnames
that were chosen (or given out?) at around that time may not have been
used
by family members way before then, especially if they had roots in
Czechoslovakia (where the Prague Jewish cemetery shows surnames >from at
least as early as the 1500s), or other parts more northerly or westerly
(e.g., Spain, where surnames were used a few hundred years even before
that). Jeff Knisbacher, Owings Mills, MD

----- Original Message -----

Who know when Jews in Russian Empire census in Ukraine began to use
surname
in census? 1795? 1811?

Regards Kolker Alexander


Jews in a Changing World Conference #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

You are welcome to submit a paper or attend the Conference "Jews in a
Changing World" in
Riga in November.
Summary of the suggested topics for discussion:
- Jews in Latvia >from 16th century to 1918: different historical and
cultural development in different provinces (Courland Jewry, Jews in
Latgale, Jews in Riga and Vidzeme);
- Jews in Lithuania and Estonia until 1918;
- Jews in the Baltic States between the wars (1918-1940);
- The Holocaust in Latvia and Baltics;
- Contemporary Jewry in the Baltic region: problems and prospects;
- Secular and religious philosophies and Jewish mysticism;
- Non-Ashkenazi communities.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

For full details contact
Prof Ruvin Ferber, Co-Chairman
University of Latvia
19 Rainis Blvd
Riga LV-1586 LATVIA
Tel: 371-7-615703
Fax: 371-7-820113
E-mail: ferber@latnet.lv


JEWS IN A CHANGING WORLD
History and Culture of Jews in Latvia and Baltic Region
Riga, Latvia
November 20-22, 2001
University of Latvia Main Building, 19 Rainis Boulevard
In Honor of the 800th Anniversary of Riga (RIGA-800)

REGISTRATION
There is no registration fee.
TRAVEL
The Riga International Airport receives direct and connected flights by Air
Baltic, SAS, Lufthansa, British Airways, Finnair, Lot, Czech Airlines, and
others. Direct weekly flights >from Ben-Gurion airport (Tel Aviv) are
provided by Latpass Airlines. (For information, contact the Latpass
representative in Tel Aviv, Mr. Mendel Shugal, tel: 03-587-7823).
Visitors entering Latvia by train, bus or car must prepare their visas in
their home countries. Visitors to Latvia >from other Baltic States, the USA,
Israel, EC and most of Central European countries do not need visas.
Visitors >from the former Soviet Union (outside the Baltic) must prepare
their visas in their home countries, using the special visa invitation
forms provided by the conference organizers. Conference participants who
provide the Organizing Committee with arrival data will be picked up at the
airport.
Taxi fare is about $15 >from the airport to Riga center.
FOOD
3 weekday kosher meals may be ordered for approximately $30.
3 Shabbat kosher meals may be ordered for approximately $40.
ACCOMMODATION
Rooms may be reserved upon request.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jews in a Changing World Conference #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

You are welcome to submit a paper or attend the Conference "Jews in a
Changing World" in
Riga in November.
Summary of the suggested topics for discussion:
- Jews in Latvia >from 16th century to 1918: different historical and
cultural development in different provinces (Courland Jewry, Jews in
Latgale, Jews in Riga and Vidzeme);
- Jews in Lithuania and Estonia until 1918;
- Jews in the Baltic States between the wars (1918-1940);
- The Holocaust in Latvia and Baltics;
- Contemporary Jewry in the Baltic region: problems and prospects;
- Secular and religious philosophies and Jewish mysticism;
- Non-Ashkenazi communities.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

For full details contact
Prof Ruvin Ferber, Co-Chairman
University of Latvia
19 Rainis Blvd
Riga LV-1586 LATVIA
Tel: 371-7-615703
Fax: 371-7-820113
E-mail: ferber@latnet.lv


JEWS IN A CHANGING WORLD
History and Culture of Jews in Latvia and Baltic Region
Riga, Latvia
November 20-22, 2001
University of Latvia Main Building, 19 Rainis Boulevard
In Honor of the 800th Anniversary of Riga (RIGA-800)

REGISTRATION
There is no registration fee.
TRAVEL
The Riga International Airport receives direct and connected flights by Air
Baltic, SAS, Lufthansa, British Airways, Finnair, Lot, Czech Airlines, and
others. Direct weekly flights >from Ben-Gurion airport (Tel Aviv) are
provided by Latpass Airlines. (For information, contact the Latpass
representative in Tel Aviv, Mr. Mendel Shugal, tel: 03-587-7823).
Visitors entering Latvia by train, bus or car must prepare their visas in
their home countries. Visitors to Latvia >from other Baltic States, the USA,
Israel, EC and most of Central European countries do not need visas.
Visitors >from the former Soviet Union (outside the Baltic) must prepare
their visas in their home countries, using the special visa invitation
forms provided by the conference organizers. Conference participants who
provide the Organizing Committee with arrival data will be picked up at the
airport.
Taxi fare is about $15 >from the airport to Riga center.
FOOD
3 weekday kosher meals may be ordered for approximately $30.
3 Shabbat kosher meals may be ordered for approximately $40.
ACCOMMODATION
Rooms may be reserved upon request.


Re: Tamas Stark #hungary

Stefano Groszy <steven@...>
 

About the numbers and professor Stark I totally agree with Gabor Hirsch.
It's a good idea if I attach here a copy of a letter of mine sent to
Louis a few days ago. Finally, my impression is that Tamas Stark is not
a revisionist at all! I have still with me his report's papers presented
at Milan's conference of "Antisemitism in Europe between WWI and WWII +
Holocaust": his arguments of course was concerning only hungarian Jews
and his approach to antisemitism was undoubtely very tough. Then, if in
any way there was a mistake about numbers, I'm 100% sure it's not bound
with any form of antisemitism or revionism. I totally apreciate Gabor's
thought together with his wisdom and acknowledgments: this should impose
us a reflection.
Best regards to all H-SIG friends!
Ciao! Steven Grosz

Message sent to Louis on April 11th:
"Hi Louis! I met Tamas Stark in Milano, where he headed a conference
about Holocaust in Hungary and seemed really informed and sincere. I was
so impressed that I invited him for a dinner at my home. We talked long
time and I found out that he's not a Jewish but her wife it is. The
impression that came out was of a honest person, very devoted to the
University career and to his family. I'm not in grade to valuate his
knowledges about H-Holocaust plus about Jews' history in Hungary, but in
my limited opinion he seemed to be very accultured (excuse me for my
mistakes in English!) and not a bluff.
Ciao, Steven."


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Tamas Stark #hungary

Stefano Groszy <steven@...>
 

About the numbers and professor Stark I totally agree with Gabor Hirsch.
It's a good idea if I attach here a copy of a letter of mine sent to
Louis a few days ago. Finally, my impression is that Tamas Stark is not
a revisionist at all! I have still with me his report's papers presented
at Milan's conference of "Antisemitism in Europe between WWI and WWII +
Holocaust": his arguments of course was concerning only hungarian Jews
and his approach to antisemitism was undoubtely very tough. Then, if in
any way there was a mistake about numbers, I'm 100% sure it's not bound
with any form of antisemitism or revionism. I totally apreciate Gabor's
thought together with his wisdom and acknowledgments: this should impose
us a reflection.
Best regards to all H-SIG friends!
Ciao! Steven Grosz

Message sent to Louis on April 11th:
"Hi Louis! I met Tamas Stark in Milano, where he headed a conference
about Holocaust in Hungary and seemed really informed and sincere. I was
so impressed that I invited him for a dinner at my home. We talked long
time and I found out that he's not a Jewish but her wife it is. The
impression that came out was of a honest person, very devoted to the
University career and to his family. I'm not in grade to valuate his
knowledges about H-Holocaust plus about Jews' history in Hungary, but in
my limited opinion he seemed to be very accultured (excuse me for my
mistakes in English!) and not a bluff.
Ciao, Steven."


Re: Hungarian Jewish Nobles---An Opposing View #hungary

PGergay@...
 

With all due respect to Dr. Hidas, other history books refute some of his
contentions---even though the central tenets of Dr. Hidas have, by now,
become popular myths... First, the rise of Hungarian Jewry in the 19th
century and pre-World War I 20th century owed nothing to the generally
enthusiastic participation of the Hungarian Jewry in the Freedom Fight of
1848. Rather, it was the Great Compromise of 1967 and its aftermath
(industrialization, the enlightened policies of the governments of the day,
coupled with the philo-Semitic outlook of the Habsburgs) which created a
welcoming atmosphere and circumstances for Hungarian Jews to ascend to
heights hitherto unknown or closed to them... In fact, one can say that this
fortuitous cause-and-effect relationship occurred IN SPITE OF 1848....
Second, Dr. Hidas states that "It is a hopeless task to prove that John
von Neuman, developer of the atomic bomb and founder of computer science,
Michael Polanyi, Leo Szilard, Leo Lanci, Franz Alexander, Ed Teller and
Theodore von Karman were geniuses because of biological or
environmental factors. Their noble origin, one may suspect, is the
most accidental attribute of their achievements."
The truth of the matter is that with the possible exception of Theodore
von Karman, who was actually a pioneer in aerodynamics, these geniuses were
NOT the descendants of "Hungarian Jewish Nobles." In fact, that most of them
grew up in villages where their father or grandfather was the "town Jew"
(grocer, land agent,etc.) was, in fact, pertinent only in the sense of an
objective analysis of how they wound up in situations where their being a
genius was an entry ticket. By now, it is a commonly acknowledged
biographical fact that they generally attributed their later successes to a
unique, advance (and elite) high school in Budapest, which they attended. The
fact that it was sponsored by the Lutheran church was significant only for
two reasons. First, this school did not feel bound by the curriculum and
regimentation in state High Schools. In fact, the school was famous for
requiring basic knowledge (often self-thought) of subjects such as
mathematics and proceeded >from that point to TEACH THE STUDENTS to think for
themselves, preferably creatively. The second claim to fame of this school
was that they administered entrance examinations throughout Hungary---and
offered scholarships to those who aced these exams---regardless of race or
religion!

Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA


Re: Hungarian Holocaust numbers #hungary

Judy Young <jy-abcd@...>
 

Bravo to Gabor Hirsch's message of April 18th noting that not enough has
been done since the war to get the numbers right and suggesting that we try
to do more research rather than argue about the exact numbers of Hungarian
Jews who died (especially while there are still witnesses around).

Count me in if something appropriate is decided where I can help.

Judy Young


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian Jewish Nobles---An Opposing View #hungary

PGergay@...
 

With all due respect to Dr. Hidas, other history books refute some of his
contentions---even though the central tenets of Dr. Hidas have, by now,
become popular myths... First, the rise of Hungarian Jewry in the 19th
century and pre-World War I 20th century owed nothing to the generally
enthusiastic participation of the Hungarian Jewry in the Freedom Fight of
1848. Rather, it was the Great Compromise of 1967 and its aftermath
(industrialization, the enlightened policies of the governments of the day,
coupled with the philo-Semitic outlook of the Habsburgs) which created a
welcoming atmosphere and circumstances for Hungarian Jews to ascend to
heights hitherto unknown or closed to them... In fact, one can say that this
fortuitous cause-and-effect relationship occurred IN SPITE OF 1848....
Second, Dr. Hidas states that "It is a hopeless task to prove that John
von Neuman, developer of the atomic bomb and founder of computer science,
Michael Polanyi, Leo Szilard, Leo Lanci, Franz Alexander, Ed Teller and
Theodore von Karman were geniuses because of biological or
environmental factors. Their noble origin, one may suspect, is the
most accidental attribute of their achievements."
The truth of the matter is that with the possible exception of Theodore
von Karman, who was actually a pioneer in aerodynamics, these geniuses were
NOT the descendants of "Hungarian Jewish Nobles." In fact, that most of them
grew up in villages where their father or grandfather was the "town Jew"
(grocer, land agent,etc.) was, in fact, pertinent only in the sense of an
objective analysis of how they wound up in situations where their being a
genius was an entry ticket. By now, it is a commonly acknowledged
biographical fact that they generally attributed their later successes to a
unique, advance (and elite) high school in Budapest, which they attended. The
fact that it was sponsored by the Lutheran church was significant only for
two reasons. First, this school did not feel bound by the curriculum and
regimentation in state High Schools. In fact, the school was famous for
requiring basic knowledge (often self-thought) of subjects such as
mathematics and proceeded >from that point to TEACH THE STUDENTS to think for
themselves, preferably creatively. The second claim to fame of this school
was that they administered entrance examinations throughout Hungary---and
offered scholarships to those who aced these exams---regardless of race or
religion!

Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Hungarian Holocaust numbers #hungary

Judy Young <jy-abcd@...>
 

Bravo to Gabor Hirsch's message of April 18th noting that not enough has
been done since the war to get the numbers right and suggesting that we try
to do more research rather than argue about the exact numbers of Hungarian
Jews who died (especially while there are still witnesses around).

Count me in if something appropriate is decided where I can help.

Judy Young