Date   

Re: Help in finding Los Angeles towns by # #general

Marion Werle <werle@...>
 

First of all, the California online death index
<http://vitals.rootsweb.com/ca/death/search.cgi>
only shows two codes under location, i.e., (19) and (70), and I notice that
there are also two different numbers for some of the other larger counties,
i.e., San Francisco, Alameda, and San Diego. I have no idea what the
numbers mean, but they definitely aren't zip codes. Gardena is a separate
incorporated city in Los Angeles County, and Hollywood is part of Los
Angeles City (which is also in Los Angeles County). If you write to the
county registrar, the exact city probably doesn't matter, as long as you
have the death date and other pertinent details about the person. For the
Gardena death, you could put "Gardena or Los Angeles". For Hollywood, it
would be Los Angeles.

I personally have had better luck writing to the California State Dept. of
Health Services--a birth certificate >from Los Angeles county that the
county couldn't locate, was found by the state.

There are many jurisdictions in Los Angeles county--Los Angeles City is the
largest, and there are many smaller areas, both incorporated and
unincorporated. To confuse matters further, there are also many mailing
addresses that are part of Los Angeles City--most of the "cities" in the
San Fernando Valley (e.g., Northridge, Studio City, Van Nuys, Reseda,
Woodland Hills, North Hollywood) fall into this category (but Burbank and
San Fernando are separate, incorporated cities).

Good luck in your search.

Marion Werle <werle@pacificnet.net>

Searching: MOLCHADSKY (Kossovo, Bereza and Pruzhany, Belarus); RATNER
(Kossovo, Belarus); SKUTELSKI, GETZ (Riebene, Latvia); MINSK (Daugavpils,
Latvia); SKUDER/SCUDER, COHEN (Skuodas and Anyksciai, Lith.); KRAWITZ
(Mosedis, Lith.); MARCUS (Anyksciai and Ukmerge, Lith.); PANOVSKY/PANOFF
(Ukmerge and Anyksciai, Lith.)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Help in finding Los Angeles towns by # #general

Marion Werle <werle@...>
 

First of all, the California online death index
<http://vitals.rootsweb.com/ca/death/search.cgi>
only shows two codes under location, i.e., (19) and (70), and I notice that
there are also two different numbers for some of the other larger counties,
i.e., San Francisco, Alameda, and San Diego. I have no idea what the
numbers mean, but they definitely aren't zip codes. Gardena is a separate
incorporated city in Los Angeles County, and Hollywood is part of Los
Angeles City (which is also in Los Angeles County). If you write to the
county registrar, the exact city probably doesn't matter, as long as you
have the death date and other pertinent details about the person. For the
Gardena death, you could put "Gardena or Los Angeles". For Hollywood, it
would be Los Angeles.

I personally have had better luck writing to the California State Dept. of
Health Services--a birth certificate >from Los Angeles county that the
county couldn't locate, was found by the state.

There are many jurisdictions in Los Angeles county--Los Angeles City is the
largest, and there are many smaller areas, both incorporated and
unincorporated. To confuse matters further, there are also many mailing
addresses that are part of Los Angeles City--most of the "cities" in the
San Fernando Valley (e.g., Northridge, Studio City, Van Nuys, Reseda,
Woodland Hills, North Hollywood) fall into this category (but Burbank and
San Fernando are separate, incorporated cities).

Good luck in your search.

Marion Werle <werle@pacificnet.net>

Searching: MOLCHADSKY (Kossovo, Bereza and Pruzhany, Belarus); RATNER
(Kossovo, Belarus); SKUTELSKI, GETZ (Riebene, Latvia); MINSK (Daugavpils,
Latvia); SKUDER/SCUDER, COHEN (Skuodas and Anyksciai, Lith.); KRAWITZ
(Mosedis, Lith.); MARCUS (Anyksciai and Ukmerge, Lith.); PANOVSKY/PANOFF
(Ukmerge and Anyksciai, Lith.)


Escaping #belarus

Carlos Glikson
 

Jerry Bernstein told at one point in his family history: "Family oral
history has it that they snuck over the border overnight and ran away
through a forest. "

My mother Luba ALPEROVICH was a baby in 1922/3 when the family escaped
throught the forest crossing the border away >from Russia - today's Ukraine -
to Poland. Only after a hazardous 6 day train trip across Ukraine to the
West >from Kremenchug could they reach the border, with an uncle
impersonating an officer in the Army, and the family carrying false papers
telling about attending a fake family marriage nearby.

Part of my family joined a group with a local guide that was crossing the
border in the night, on foot, across the woods. My mother - a baby in my
grandmother's arms - cried once. The guide whispered to my grandmother she'd
better quiet the baby - if she cried again she would have to be
"definitively silenced": she was placing the full adult group at risk.

A great aunt and two aunts crossed in another group. Their guide stopped
near the border and said things were riskier than he thought, the fee was
too cheap, changed the fee, and stole all the money and jewels they had
saved for the escape.

These aunts were then captured and imprisoned by the Poles in Sarno, and
held prisoners in barracks in bad conditions for a year. According to my
aunt´s memories, on the day they were being queued to be deported back, a
telegram arrived. It announced money >from South America was expecting at a
bank in Hamburg for them to continue their trip to Argentina, and they were
spared.

I was reminded by Jerry about the depth of the diverse family histories that
may hide behind the brief "sneaking over the border overnight and running
away"!

Carlos GLIKSON
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@iname.com

Searching for

GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN (Suwalki, Marijampole, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin,Koenigsberg)
ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ (Kremenchug, Vilnius)
POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY (Suwalki, Seirijai)
HOLLANDERSKY, HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER (Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza)
TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL (Kremenchug, Kharkov)
FELCHINSKY (Kremenchug, Vilnius), KARP (Grodno), GOLUMBIEWSKY, GOLOMB (?),
KRASNAPOLSKY (?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry (Gerald B.) Bernstein" <jbernste@home.com>
To: "Belarus SIG" <belarus@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:04 PM
Subject: [belarus] Re: Drafted into the Imperial Russian Army


... My interpretation is that the family had earlier connections in the
Minsk/Radoshkovitz/Molchad/Slonim/Grodna area, but moved south to
Kishinev. I believe this move to Kishinev was part of a family plan
with the explicit aim of emigrating.
... Family oral history has it that they snuck over the border overnight
and ran away through a forest. They made their way to New York via
Rotterdam on a ship called the Nordham.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Escaping #belarus

Carlos Glikson
 

Jerry Bernstein told at one point in his family history: "Family oral
history has it that they snuck over the border overnight and ran away
through a forest. "

My mother Luba ALPEROVICH was a baby in 1922/3 when the family escaped
throught the forest crossing the border away >from Russia - today's Ukraine -
to Poland. Only after a hazardous 6 day train trip across Ukraine to the
West >from Kremenchug could they reach the border, with an uncle
impersonating an officer in the Army, and the family carrying false papers
telling about attending a fake family marriage nearby.

Part of my family joined a group with a local guide that was crossing the
border in the night, on foot, across the woods. My mother - a baby in my
grandmother's arms - cried once. The guide whispered to my grandmother she'd
better quiet the baby - if she cried again she would have to be
"definitively silenced": she was placing the full adult group at risk.

A great aunt and two aunts crossed in another group. Their guide stopped
near the border and said things were riskier than he thought, the fee was
too cheap, changed the fee, and stole all the money and jewels they had
saved for the escape.

These aunts were then captured and imprisoned by the Poles in Sarno, and
held prisoners in barracks in bad conditions for a year. According to my
aunt´s memories, on the day they were being queued to be deported back, a
telegram arrived. It announced money >from South America was expecting at a
bank in Hamburg for them to continue their trip to Argentina, and they were
spared.

I was reminded by Jerry about the depth of the diverse family histories that
may hide behind the brief "sneaking over the border overnight and running
away"!

Carlos GLIKSON
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@iname.com

Searching for

GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN (Suwalki, Marijampole, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin,Koenigsberg)
ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ (Kremenchug, Vilnius)
POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY (Suwalki, Seirijai)
HOLLANDERSKY, HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER (Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza)
TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL (Kremenchug, Kharkov)
FELCHINSKY (Kremenchug, Vilnius), KARP (Grodno), GOLUMBIEWSKY, GOLOMB (?),
KRASNAPOLSKY (?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry (Gerald B.) Bernstein" <jbernste@home.com>
To: "Belarus SIG" <belarus@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:04 PM
Subject: [belarus] Re: Drafted into the Imperial Russian Army


... My interpretation is that the family had earlier connections in the
Minsk/Radoshkovitz/Molchad/Slonim/Grodna area, but moved south to
Kishinev. I believe this move to Kishinev was part of a family plan
with the explicit aim of emigrating.
... Family oral history has it that they snuck over the border overnight
and ran away through a forest. They made their way to New York via
Rotterdam on a ship called the Nordham.


Drosnes and Nelkin #southafrica

Gurtler <gurtler@...>
 

I am posting again as there may be new readers to this SIG.

I am looking for remnants of the Nelkin and Drosnes families know to have
lived in South Africa in the 30' to the 50s at least. Originally >from Vilna,
Lithuania.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
David and Tina Gurtler
Jerusalem, Israel
gurtler@netvision.net.il


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Drosnes and Nelkin #southafrica

Gurtler <gurtler@...>
 

I am posting again as there may be new readers to this SIG.

I am looking for remnants of the Nelkin and Drosnes families know to have
lived in South Africa in the 30' to the 50s at least. Originally >from Vilna,
Lithuania.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
David and Tina Gurtler
Jerusalem, Israel
gurtler@netvision.net.il


Re: "guess what - I'm Jewish" #general

Sally Hohensee <hohensees@...>
 

Re Nancy Hauser's message about her recently-discovered possibly Jewish
ancestry: KRAMER is a common name which can be either Jewish or
Christian. We lived in Germany for four years, and there are many names
thought of in the USA as Jewish which are also Christian. For example,
two of the names in my family (Jewish) are HANDEL and SINGER, which are
also common German-Christian names. But don't let that stop you!

I loved your account of your mother's stories! Keep talking to her, and
any other relative who will discuss family stuff. In my experience,
although a lot of that information is wrong, "you never know what she
will come up with."

Good luck in your research!

Sally Hohensee
Prairie Village, Kansas, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "guess what - I'm Jewish" #general

Sally Hohensee <hohensees@...>
 

Re Nancy Hauser's message about her recently-discovered possibly Jewish
ancestry: KRAMER is a common name which can be either Jewish or
Christian. We lived in Germany for four years, and there are many names
thought of in the USA as Jewish which are also Christian. For example,
two of the names in my family (Jewish) are HANDEL and SINGER, which are
also common German-Christian names. But don't let that stop you!

I loved your account of your mother's stories! Keep talking to her, and
any other relative who will discuss family stuff. In my experience,
although a lot of that information is wrong, "you never know what she
will come up with."

Good luck in your research!

Sally Hohensee
Prairie Village, Kansas, USA


Irving BERLIN #general

Stephen A. Cohen
 

In the Jan 28th digest, Eleanor Weber Dickman asked for information about
Louis Berlin >from Bobr, Mogilev Russia.

While I can't help her directly and normally this response would be made
privately, I remembered seeing the Avotaynu Spring/Summer 2000 catalogue
which had on its cover the World War 1 registration record of the famous
composer Irving Berlin. Among his compositions was "God Bless America".

The registration shows that he was born May 11, 1888 in Mogilov Russia
which is now part of Belarus. Since the surname is the same as was the
district, it is possible that he was related to her family.

For more information concerning Bobr members can refer to:

http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus/shtetls/sbobrsm.htm

I would also suggest contacting other members of the Belarus SIG who are
studying this town and area.

Best regards,

Stephen A. Cohen
East Meadow NY
Coordinator: Vilieka Uyezd (district) of Belarus

PS: I am researching the following families:
Germany:BAUM in Bosen;EISENKRAMER,MARX & LEFEVRE,
LEFEBRE:Rhineland Palat//Belarus:BASIST - Lida Dist; SHINHAUS, SHEINHOUS,
SHEINHAUS,SHEINGAUS in Radoshkovichi, Molodechno
in the Vilieka Dist// Galicia:BIRNBAUM,GOLDBERG,LEINKRAM in Krakow;
SCHNEPS,SHNEPS,SZNEPS in Dembitz,Tarnow; GELLER:in Mielec; KREINDLER;
ECKSTEIN;


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Irving BERLIN #general

Stephen A. Cohen
 

In the Jan 28th digest, Eleanor Weber Dickman asked for information about
Louis Berlin >from Bobr, Mogilev Russia.

While I can't help her directly and normally this response would be made
privately, I remembered seeing the Avotaynu Spring/Summer 2000 catalogue
which had on its cover the World War 1 registration record of the famous
composer Irving Berlin. Among his compositions was "God Bless America".

The registration shows that he was born May 11, 1888 in Mogilov Russia
which is now part of Belarus. Since the surname is the same as was the
district, it is possible that he was related to her family.

For more information concerning Bobr members can refer to:

http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus/shtetls/sbobrsm.htm

I would also suggest contacting other members of the Belarus SIG who are
studying this town and area.

Best regards,

Stephen A. Cohen
East Meadow NY
Coordinator: Vilieka Uyezd (district) of Belarus

PS: I am researching the following families:
Germany:BAUM in Bosen;EISENKRAMER,MARX & LEFEVRE,
LEFEBRE:Rhineland Palat//Belarus:BASIST - Lida Dist; SHINHAUS, SHEINHOUS,
SHEINHAUS,SHEINGAUS in Radoshkovichi, Molodechno
in the Vilieka Dist// Galicia:BIRNBAUM,GOLDBERG,LEINKRAM in Krakow;
SCHNEPS,SHNEPS,SZNEPS in Dembitz,Tarnow; GELLER:in Mielec; KREINDLER;
ECKSTEIN;


WARTA - Late 19th Century Records #poland

madeleine
 

Late 19th Century Records For WARTA have been indexed; you have a unique
opportunity to help

Late 19th Century Records For WARTA
Making it accessible - on-line.
It's happening now

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Warta is a town located between the cities of Kalisz and Lodz and on the
Warta River. Towns in close proximity include Blaszki, Sieradz, Zdunska
Wola, Lask, Pabianice, Turek, Dobra, Poddebice, Zloczew, and Widawa.

Many of us researching our ancestors >from Poland have found valuable
information in the microfilms of the LDS Family History Centers. For the last
several years, this effort has gained momentum because more than 900,000 of
the records in the LDS collection have been indexed and are available on the
Internet through the searchable database of Jewish Records Indexing- Poland
(http://www.jewishgen/JRI-PL). The indexes themselves provide valuable
genealogical data and enable one to zero in on specific documents for further
research.

The LDS films for WARTA end in1858, just before we get to the records for the
people we know through family stories or contemporary records.

But now, indexes to Polish-Jewish records for the years not filmed by the
Mormons - (1857, 1871-1875, 1877-1882, 1884-1898) - are in the process of
addition to the Jewish Records-Indexing -Poland database under a
groundbreaking agreement between JRI-Poland and the Polish State Archives
(PSA). For information about the PSA project see:
http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/psa/psastat.htm

This means that now that the indexes are completed for WARTA, this new
material will finally allow you to expand your research into a time period
that has been elusive and beyond your reach. In most cases this period
(1857, 1871-1875, 1877-1882, 1884-1898) is the missing link in our
genealogical chain - the time when our grandparents and their sisters and
brothers were born and were married. Once these indexes are completed, you
may simply print out an order form >from the Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
web site and order the records >from the Polish State Archives.

I have agreed to take on the responsibility of WARTA Town Leader. Please
join me in making this extremely worthwhile and exciting project a success.
Your participation in this project can help bring to light information you
may have never imagined you would find. Please spread the word to everyone
you are in contact with who has an interest in WARTA -- family, friends,
co-researchers. All should be encouraged to participate.

The Lodz branch archives has extensive records for the city of Lodz and
approximately 50 towns in the area. The list of towns whose partial, or
complete, records are contained in the Lodz branch archive may be seen at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Lodz/lds.htm

Updates on the JRI-Poland/PSA WARTA will be available in the future at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/psastat.htm, click on "Status Report: PSA
Project Underway" which is the last line in the heading of this page. On the
Status Report page, click on "Lodz" in the drop-down menu.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,

Madeleine Okladek
WARTA Town Leader
Email mokladek@aol.com


JRI Poland #Poland WARTA - Late 19th Century Records #poland

madeleine
 

Late 19th Century Records For WARTA have been indexed; you have a unique
opportunity to help

Late 19th Century Records For WARTA
Making it accessible - on-line.
It's happening now

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Warta is a town located between the cities of Kalisz and Lodz and on the
Warta River. Towns in close proximity include Blaszki, Sieradz, Zdunska
Wola, Lask, Pabianice, Turek, Dobra, Poddebice, Zloczew, and Widawa.

Many of us researching our ancestors >from Poland have found valuable
information in the microfilms of the LDS Family History Centers. For the last
several years, this effort has gained momentum because more than 900,000 of
the records in the LDS collection have been indexed and are available on the
Internet through the searchable database of Jewish Records Indexing- Poland
(http://www.jewishgen/JRI-PL). The indexes themselves provide valuable
genealogical data and enable one to zero in on specific documents for further
research.

The LDS films for WARTA end in1858, just before we get to the records for the
people we know through family stories or contemporary records.

But now, indexes to Polish-Jewish records for the years not filmed by the
Mormons - (1857, 1871-1875, 1877-1882, 1884-1898) - are in the process of
addition to the Jewish Records-Indexing -Poland database under a
groundbreaking agreement between JRI-Poland and the Polish State Archives
(PSA). For information about the PSA project see:
http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/psa/psastat.htm

This means that now that the indexes are completed for WARTA, this new
material will finally allow you to expand your research into a time period
that has been elusive and beyond your reach. In most cases this period
(1857, 1871-1875, 1877-1882, 1884-1898) is the missing link in our
genealogical chain - the time when our grandparents and their sisters and
brothers were born and were married. Once these indexes are completed, you
may simply print out an order form >from the Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
web site and order the records >from the Polish State Archives.

I have agreed to take on the responsibility of WARTA Town Leader. Please
join me in making this extremely worthwhile and exciting project a success.
Your participation in this project can help bring to light information you
may have never imagined you would find. Please spread the word to everyone
you are in contact with who has an interest in WARTA -- family, friends,
co-researchers. All should be encouraged to participate.

The Lodz branch archives has extensive records for the city of Lodz and
approximately 50 towns in the area. The list of towns whose partial, or
complete, records are contained in the Lodz branch archive may be seen at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Lodz/lds.htm

Updates on the JRI-Poland/PSA WARTA will be available in the future at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/psastat.htm, click on "Status Report: PSA
Project Underway" which is the last line in the heading of this page. On the
Status Report page, click on "Lodz" in the drop-down menu.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,

Madeleine Okladek
WARTA Town Leader
Email mokladek@aol.com


NY marriages #poland

Ilene Murray <ilenemurray@...>
 

Just to let the group know that the LDS has filmed the New York marriage
certificates and they are available in Salt Lake City and/or at any
Family History Library. They are a treasure trove and the films are easy
to read. They are indexed, as well.

Ilene Kanfer Murray in St. Louis


Re: jri-pl digest: January 30, 2001 #poland

Stan Goodman <stan@...>
 

** Reply to message >from "JRI-Poland digest" <jri-pl@lyris.jewishgen.org> on
Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:01:22 -0600

My own tree has a similar situation, in that it has no fewer than four men
named Eliasz Nejman, all contemporaries in the late 1890s. The solution is
simple enough: they are all named for a single ancestor. Given the naming
customs of Polish Jews, this is inevitable, and very common.

My ancestor Abram Dziadek was born in the early 1800s (place unknown)
and he lived in Nowe Miasto, Poland, which is right next to Plonsk in
Warsawa gubernia. The surname DZIADEK is fairly unusual. His wife died
in Nowe Miasto in the 1880s, but I don't know where or when Abram died.
The JRI Poland index has a death for an Abram Dziadek in Lodz in the
1890s.

Is it reasonable to think that as an elderly man, my ancestor picked up
and moved >from Nowe Miasto to Lodz in the 1880s or 1890s. Would this
have been too far? I have no clue as to whether there were any Dziadek
relatives there, except that I know that none of his children moved
there.

Any thoughts?
--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Where do honey bees go potty? At a BP station naturally.


JRI Poland #Poland NY marriages #poland

Ilene Murray <ilenemurray@...>
 

Just to let the group know that the LDS has filmed the New York marriage
certificates and they are available in Salt Lake City and/or at any
Family History Library. They are a treasure trove and the films are easy
to read. They are indexed, as well.

Ilene Kanfer Murray in St. Louis


JRI Poland #Poland Re: jri-pl digest: January 30, 2001 #poland

Stan Goodman <stan@...>
 

** Reply to message >from "JRI-Poland digest" <jri-pl@lyris.jewishgen.org> on
Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:01:22 -0600

My own tree has a similar situation, in that it has no fewer than four men
named Eliasz Nejman, all contemporaries in the late 1890s. The solution is
simple enough: they are all named for a single ancestor. Given the naming
customs of Polish Jews, this is inevitable, and very common.

My ancestor Abram Dziadek was born in the early 1800s (place unknown)
and he lived in Nowe Miasto, Poland, which is right next to Plonsk in
Warsawa gubernia. The surname DZIADEK is fairly unusual. His wife died
in Nowe Miasto in the 1880s, but I don't know where or when Abram died.
The JRI Poland index has a death for an Abram Dziadek in Lodz in the
1890s.

Is it reasonable to think that as an elderly man, my ancestor picked up
and moved >from Nowe Miasto to Lodz in the 1880s or 1890s. Would this
have been too far? I have no clue as to whether there were any Dziadek
relatives there, except that I know that none of his children moved
there.

Any thoughts?
--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Where do honey bees go potty? At a BP station naturally.


Army Service in Russia #belarus

nyzvezi@...
 

In reading the recent messages about 19th century Russian Army service,
mutilation and draft avoidance, one must realize the state of abject
poverty that existed in Jewish stetls as well as among the non-jewish
peasants and serfs in Russia in the 19th century. The Tsar was absolute
ruler and serfs were tied to the land. Poor Jews living among them were
in the same tenuous state. I remember visiting in the lower Eastside of
New York as late as the early 30's, where people were living and dying
on the edge of subsistance not much better. Just staying alive was the
main drive. Remember that state Welfare is a new concept and while
mutilation is forbidden by Halacha so is allowing conversion. Losing a
son was not only a major emotional, but also an economic loss. However
many Jews at that time began to live in cities and there are stories in
my family of fighting in Russian units against Napoleon's armies before
Moscow in 1812.

It always amazes me of the belief that the hope of a Father is for a
son who will say Kaddish for him after death. Kaddish to read its
words is for support of the living with no reference to the departed. It
was the hope that by its' use the living would maintain their beliefs
as Jews. There is no Jewish universal belief in a heaven.

As far as buying "papers", male relatives that I personally knew told me
of buying papers so that they could leave Russia in the 1880's when Army
service was only five years for better economic opportunities.. Thus my
family still bares the various surnames of the sellers.

Norman Zelvin Eastchester, NY <nyzvezi@banet.net>

Seeking:
KIVOVICH, KIVOWITZ (& variations),PLIMACK, ADELSON >from Minsk;
ZELVIN, SELVIN, MOYER, LUBMAN >from Orsha , Rostov-on-Don


Belarus SIG #Belarus Army Service in Russia #belarus

nyzvezi@...
 

In reading the recent messages about 19th century Russian Army service,
mutilation and draft avoidance, one must realize the state of abject
poverty that existed in Jewish stetls as well as among the non-jewish
peasants and serfs in Russia in the 19th century. The Tsar was absolute
ruler and serfs were tied to the land. Poor Jews living among them were
in the same tenuous state. I remember visiting in the lower Eastside of
New York as late as the early 30's, where people were living and dying
on the edge of subsistance not much better. Just staying alive was the
main drive. Remember that state Welfare is a new concept and while
mutilation is forbidden by Halacha so is allowing conversion. Losing a
son was not only a major emotional, but also an economic loss. However
many Jews at that time began to live in cities and there are stories in
my family of fighting in Russian units against Napoleon's armies before
Moscow in 1812.

It always amazes me of the belief that the hope of a Father is for a
son who will say Kaddish for him after death. Kaddish to read its
words is for support of the living with no reference to the departed. It
was the hope that by its' use the living would maintain their beliefs
as Jews. There is no Jewish universal belief in a heaven.

As far as buying "papers", male relatives that I personally knew told me
of buying papers so that they could leave Russia in the 1880's when Army
service was only five years for better economic opportunities.. Thus my
family still bares the various surnames of the sellers.

Norman Zelvin Eastchester, NY <nyzvezi@banet.net>

Seeking:
KIVOVICH, KIVOWITZ (& variations),PLIMACK, ADELSON >from Minsk;
ZELVIN, SELVIN, MOYER, LUBMAN >from Orsha , Rostov-on-Don


Vilna-Lida in Holocaust #belarus

shaul <shaul@...>
 

Dear Scott,

I would firstly be very interested in the reference to this list.
As you may know we run a Lithuanian Holocaust Names project:

http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/lithnames.

Secondly, you refer to her as being a resident of Vilna- any
verification of this?

Between July-December 1941 when there were mass executions taking
place throughout Lithuania and especially in Vilna, the Jews in
adjacent and nearby towns such as Voronovo and Lida lived in
comparative safety. No Aktionen took place, and in these areas
the Jews were not in ghettos. The feeling was that it may be safer
in Belarus. They fled in carts, on foot, and even in German army
trucks. Notable was the efforts of a German Sergeant major, Anton
Schmidt (a Righteous Gentile), who ran a mattress workshop and hid
many Jewish workmen in basements. He used military trucks to send
Jews to Belarus. He was later executed.

Yitzchak Arad writing in 'ghetto in Flames' states that there is no
data to how many Jews fled >from Vilna to Belarus between July-December
1941. In Voronovo there were 300 Jews originally >from Vilna, in Lida
approximately 1000.

People were fleeing >from Vilna to Lida and getting into the ghetto
there. In March 1942 60 refugees >from Vilna and the 6 members of the
Judenrat in Lida were murdered.

Nuremberg document NO-1831 dated around July 13, 1942 refers to
72,000 Jews left in Ostland, 20,000 in Vilna and 7,500 in Lida. These
figures are possibly an exaggeration.

---------------------
Scott Noar wrote:
In a list of Jews >from Vilnius killed during WW II was Genia Kac
who was listed as being killed in Lida, Belarussia in 1942. The
list was published in 1949 >from eye witness accounts, records found
etc.
...snip...
---------------------


Belarus SIG #Belarus Vilna-Lida in Holocaust #belarus

shaul <shaul@...>
 

Dear Scott,

I would firstly be very interested in the reference to this list.
As you may know we run a Lithuanian Holocaust Names project:

http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/lithnames.

Secondly, you refer to her as being a resident of Vilna- any
verification of this?

Between July-December 1941 when there were mass executions taking
place throughout Lithuania and especially in Vilna, the Jews in
adjacent and nearby towns such as Voronovo and Lida lived in
comparative safety. No Aktionen took place, and in these areas
the Jews were not in ghettos. The feeling was that it may be safer
in Belarus. They fled in carts, on foot, and even in German army
trucks. Notable was the efforts of a German Sergeant major, Anton
Schmidt (a Righteous Gentile), who ran a mattress workshop and hid
many Jewish workmen in basements. He used military trucks to send
Jews to Belarus. He was later executed.

Yitzchak Arad writing in 'ghetto in Flames' states that there is no
data to how many Jews fled >from Vilna to Belarus between July-December
1941. In Voronovo there were 300 Jews originally >from Vilna, in Lida
approximately 1000.

People were fleeing >from Vilna to Lida and getting into the ghetto
there. In March 1942 60 refugees >from Vilna and the 6 members of the
Judenrat in Lida were murdered.

Nuremberg document NO-1831 dated around July 13, 1942 refers to
72,000 Jews left in Ostland, 20,000 in Vilna and 7,500 in Lida. These
figures are possibly an exaggeration.

---------------------
Scott Noar wrote:
In a list of Jews >from Vilnius killed during WW II was Genia Kac
who was listed as being killed in Lida, Belarussia in 1942. The
list was published in 1949 >from eye witness accounts, records found
etc.
...snip...
---------------------