Date   

Re: Drafted into the Imperial Russian Army #belarus

Jerry (Gerald B.) Bernstein <jbernste@...>
 

You know, I've watched e-mails on this subject fly by without having
the time to pay too much attention. But today this caught my eye
because of a possible ANOMOLY in my family as follows:

My (maternal) grandfather emigrated >from Europe to America (NY) about
1907 and Settled in Brownsville, Brooklyn, NY. I have his Russian
(Czarist) internal passport, his U.S. immigration records, and various
other "hard" evidence that he arrived in NY (with his wife, parents,
uncles and aunts, etc.) at about age 21. The curious thing is that his
Passport indicates THAT HE WAS A VETERAN. I'd assume this meant the
same Czarist armies that were conscripting other Jewish men. We're
aware of the general imact on the Jewish people of such conscription.
So - is it possible - for my grandfather to be a "veteran" of the Czar's
army by age 21?

My grandfather's passport was issued in Slonim and indicated his
citizenship (birthplace?) to be Molchad, both in the vicinity of Minsk.
Additionally, my grandfather's synnagogue in Brooklyn (of which he was
a founder, and where I was Bar Mizvah'd was the Chevra Torah Anshei
Raditzkowitz. This points to another family connection in the Minsk
area.

At the time of his emigration the family was living in Kishinev.
There is hard evidence of this too. Other documentation includes
a "certified" letter >from the carpenter's labor union asking other
union members in other cities to assist my grandfather in getting
work.

Now for me, this Jewish Genealogy is - at least in part - uncovering
the UNDERLYING HUMAN STORY of these people who left the old country
to come to America.

My interpretation is that the family had earlier connections in the
Minsk/Radoshkovitz/Molchad/Slonim/Grodna area, but moved south to
Kishinev. I believe this move to Kishinev was part of a family plan
with the explicit aim of emigrating.

So the entire clan - My great grandfather Jacob and his wife and 10
children - one of which was my grandfather and grandmother (she to
have 8 children in America and apparently having lost one after
Kishinev sometime. Jacob and his extended family take their leave
of Meyer (my great-great grandfather) and his wife and Hirsh & Dobra
Kaminsky - the in-law parents - and embark for America.

Family oral history has it that they snuck over the border overnight
and ran away through a forest. They made their way to New York via
Rotterdam on a ship called the Nordham.

This story toughes me - that's why I bother with this - but am I
correctly interpreting the shreads of evidence I have, or am I
romanticizing because it's fun.

Does this interpretation hold water?

Jerry Bernstein

-----------------------
Irene Newhouse wrote:

Having for years read various stories of illegally leaving Russia to
avoid army service and all the other stories of mutilation such as
those recently under discussion, it always made me wonder why there
were no similar stories in my family. Note that I'm a first
generation American, so lost in the mists of time is not a good answer.
....snip...
-----------------------


Re: Mutilation to avoid Conscription #belarus

Betsy Brazy <bbrazy@...>
 

I'm a little disturbed by the quickness to clobber each other publicly over
inaccuracies or perceived slights. I read Naomi Fatouros' message merely as
research pointing to another scholar's different view. Let us remember that
we are all related and therefore try to be a little more gracious with each
other.

Betsy BRAZY
Research: SIPERSTEIN of Pinsk, Belarus; DRAIKIN of Kherson, Ukraine; BRAZY
of Tukums, Latvia; HURWICH of Kaunas, Lithuania


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Drafted into the Imperial Russian Army #belarus

Jerry (Gerald B.) Bernstein <jbernste@...>
 

You know, I've watched e-mails on this subject fly by without having
the time to pay too much attention. But today this caught my eye
because of a possible ANOMOLY in my family as follows:

My (maternal) grandfather emigrated >from Europe to America (NY) about
1907 and Settled in Brownsville, Brooklyn, NY. I have his Russian
(Czarist) internal passport, his U.S. immigration records, and various
other "hard" evidence that he arrived in NY (with his wife, parents,
uncles and aunts, etc.) at about age 21. The curious thing is that his
Passport indicates THAT HE WAS A VETERAN. I'd assume this meant the
same Czarist armies that were conscripting other Jewish men. We're
aware of the general imact on the Jewish people of such conscription.
So - is it possible - for my grandfather to be a "veteran" of the Czar's
army by age 21?

My grandfather's passport was issued in Slonim and indicated his
citizenship (birthplace?) to be Molchad, both in the vicinity of Minsk.
Additionally, my grandfather's synnagogue in Brooklyn (of which he was
a founder, and where I was Bar Mizvah'd was the Chevra Torah Anshei
Raditzkowitz. This points to another family connection in the Minsk
area.

At the time of his emigration the family was living in Kishinev.
There is hard evidence of this too. Other documentation includes
a "certified" letter >from the carpenter's labor union asking other
union members in other cities to assist my grandfather in getting
work.

Now for me, this Jewish Genealogy is - at least in part - uncovering
the UNDERLYING HUMAN STORY of these people who left the old country
to come to America.

My interpretation is that the family had earlier connections in the
Minsk/Radoshkovitz/Molchad/Slonim/Grodna area, but moved south to
Kishinev. I believe this move to Kishinev was part of a family plan
with the explicit aim of emigrating.

So the entire clan - My great grandfather Jacob and his wife and 10
children - one of which was my grandfather and grandmother (she to
have 8 children in America and apparently having lost one after
Kishinev sometime. Jacob and his extended family take their leave
of Meyer (my great-great grandfather) and his wife and Hirsh & Dobra
Kaminsky - the in-law parents - and embark for America.

Family oral history has it that they snuck over the border overnight
and ran away through a forest. They made their way to New York via
Rotterdam on a ship called the Nordham.

This story toughes me - that's why I bother with this - but am I
correctly interpreting the shreads of evidence I have, or am I
romanticizing because it's fun.

Does this interpretation hold water?

Jerry Bernstein

-----------------------
Irene Newhouse wrote:

Having for years read various stories of illegally leaving Russia to
avoid army service and all the other stories of mutilation such as
those recently under discussion, it always made me wonder why there
were no similar stories in my family. Note that I'm a first
generation American, so lost in the mists of time is not a good answer.
....snip...
-----------------------


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Mutilation to avoid Conscription #belarus

Betsy Brazy <bbrazy@...>
 

I'm a little disturbed by the quickness to clobber each other publicly over
inaccuracies or perceived slights. I read Naomi Fatouros' message merely as
research pointing to another scholar's different view. Let us remember that
we are all related and therefore try to be a little more gracious with each
other.

Betsy BRAZY
Research: SIPERSTEIN of Pinsk, Belarus; DRAIKIN of Kherson, Ukraine; BRAZY
of Tukums, Latvia; HURWICH of Kaunas, Lithuania


maps #belarus

spirit-images <spirit-images@...>
 

Thank you for the information about Dembova Buda and google. I searched on
google and found a map of Dembova Buda and also one of Dambava. They are
one in the same...exact same location! I am pretty certain this is where my
grandfather is from.

There is a site of Lithuania maps
http://www.calle.com/world/lithuania where you look up the first 2 letters
of any place you are searching for.

Ava Sweeney
Durham, NC
Berman - Simnas Lasdaisky- Dembova Buda Shershevsky- Bitten Sulkowitch-
?Lithuania/Poland


Belarus SIG #Belarus maps #belarus

spirit-images <spirit-images@...>
 

Thank you for the information about Dembova Buda and google. I searched on
google and found a map of Dembova Buda and also one of Dambava. They are
one in the same...exact same location! I am pretty certain this is where my
grandfather is from.

There is a site of Lithuania maps
http://www.calle.com/world/lithuania where you look up the first 2 letters
of any place you are searching for.

Ava Sweeney
Durham, NC
Berman - Simnas Lasdaisky- Dembova Buda Shershevsky- Bitten Sulkowitch-
?Lithuania/Poland


Re: Mutilation to Advoid Conscription #belarus

Ruth Hyman <rhyman@...>
 

There is a story in my late husband's family of a family member who had
injured a finger while chopping wood, I believe, and was urged to "chop
off a bit more" so as to avoid conscription. He would not do it because
Jewish law forbids mutilation of the body.
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Mutilation to Advoid Conscription #belarus

Ruth Hyman <rhyman@...>
 

There is a story in my late husband's family of a family member who had
injured a finger while chopping wood, I believe, and was urged to "chop
off a bit more" so as to avoid conscription. He would not do it because
Jewish law forbids mutilation of the body.
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY


ViewMate: Searching for survivors/descendants of SCHORR MISCHEL from Galicia #general

lilian schorr <lilianschorr@...>
 

Dear friends,
I still have the hope to get hints on any relative somewhere in this World.
Please help me. I have posted 4 photos of my father's family all from
Stanislawow-Stryy. My father was born in 1906.
Please have a look at http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html
Go to To View section FILES VM346/347/348/349.
Please contact me directly at lilianschorr@infovia.com.ar
You can also go directly to:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/toview109.html#vm346
and please go through the 4 photos.
Do you have relatives >from Stanislawow-Stryy-Lemberg that are over 80?
May be they can remember.
Thank you very much for your help.

Lilian Schorr Landes
lilianschorr@infovia.com.ar

Searching for:
SCHORR, MISCHEL >from Stanislawow, Stryy, Lemberg (Lwow), Vien.
LANDES, BASS, ZEMBER, MEHLER >from Podkamien, Brody, Tarnopol
Lember, Lwow, USA.


Surname JOSEPH - Melbourne Australia #general

Bruce Lumley <blumley@...>
 

I am seeking informaton on the name Joseph >from Melbourne in the
1890 - 1910 perod. One son moved to Western Australia. Any help much
appreciated

Bruce
Perth WA


Missing LISSITSKY #general

Reed <reed@...>
 

Well, the prize goes to Diane Jacobs for finding my great-grandfather.
I have been looking for three years. Not only did she make good
suggestions (and ignore what I thought was positive truth - that he was
buried in Beth David) , she went one step further and called Mt. Judah,
the other cemetery where the Mesivtha Tifereth Jerusalem owned property
in the 1920's.

Mind you, I had already called Mt. Judah. I know I was persistent with
Beth David, but maybe by Beth Judah I was intimidated. But she was so
persistent in trying every spelling that she found him! (spelled
Lesitsky) His wife is still missing, but now I'm confident she will
turn up!

So - the moral of the story is - don't give up! Be a polite pest!
Also, Diane told me that when she can't find someone at Beth David, she
insists that they check their handwritten records (everything is
computerized now when you call).

Many thanks to all who gave me suggestions, I think I missed sending out
a few personal thank yous.

Victoria Reed
San Francisco


GREENBERG in Hartford, CT #general

angstreichc@...
 

I need some help to locate any descendants of Meyer and Sophie Greenberg,
they lived in Hartford, CT approximately >from 1915+_until death. They had
one son, name unknown, who had one or more children. Any help would be
appreciated. If you can not help please direct me to someone who can. Thanks!
Carol A. Zimmerman
mailto:angstreichc@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate: Searching for survivors/descendants of SCHORR MISCHEL from Galicia #general

lilian schorr <lilianschorr@...>
 

Dear friends,
I still have the hope to get hints on any relative somewhere in this World.
Please help me. I have posted 4 photos of my father's family all from
Stanislawow-Stryy. My father was born in 1906.
Please have a look at http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html
Go to To View section FILES VM346/347/348/349.
Please contact me directly at lilianschorr@infovia.com.ar
You can also go directly to:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/toview109.html#vm346
and please go through the 4 photos.
Do you have relatives >from Stanislawow-Stryy-Lemberg that are over 80?
May be they can remember.
Thank you very much for your help.

Lilian Schorr Landes
lilianschorr@infovia.com.ar

Searching for:
SCHORR, MISCHEL >from Stanislawow, Stryy, Lemberg (Lwow), Vien.
LANDES, BASS, ZEMBER, MEHLER >from Podkamien, Brody, Tarnopol
Lember, Lwow, USA.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Surname JOSEPH - Melbourne Australia #general

Bruce Lumley <blumley@...>
 

I am seeking informaton on the name Joseph >from Melbourne in the
1890 - 1910 perod. One son moved to Western Australia. Any help much
appreciated

Bruce
Perth WA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Missing LISSITSKY #general

Reed <reed@...>
 

Well, the prize goes to Diane Jacobs for finding my great-grandfather.
I have been looking for three years. Not only did she make good
suggestions (and ignore what I thought was positive truth - that he was
buried in Beth David) , she went one step further and called Mt. Judah,
the other cemetery where the Mesivtha Tifereth Jerusalem owned property
in the 1920's.

Mind you, I had already called Mt. Judah. I know I was persistent with
Beth David, but maybe by Beth Judah I was intimidated. But she was so
persistent in trying every spelling that she found him! (spelled
Lesitsky) His wife is still missing, but now I'm confident she will
turn up!

So - the moral of the story is - don't give up! Be a polite pest!
Also, Diane told me that when she can't find someone at Beth David, she
insists that they check their handwritten records (everything is
computerized now when you call).

Many thanks to all who gave me suggestions, I think I missed sending out
a few personal thank yous.

Victoria Reed
San Francisco


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GREENBERG in Hartford, CT #general

angstreichc@...
 

I need some help to locate any descendants of Meyer and Sophie Greenberg,
they lived in Hartford, CT approximately >from 1915+_until death. They had
one son, name unknown, who had one or more children. Any help would be
appreciated. If you can not help please direct me to someone who can. Thanks!
Carol A. Zimmerman
mailto:angstreichc@aol.com


Re: Illinois State Archives #general

encore <encore@...>
 

Information regarding the holdings in the Illinois State Archives
is on line at:
http://www.sos.state.il.us/departments/archives/irad/iradholdings.html

There is also a searchable data base.

My experience with their response time to a written request for
information was terrible. My request was only acknowledged after
writing a personal letter to the Director of the Archives. Total
elapsed time was approximately four months.

Neil Stein


St. Michaels Hungary #general

Stephanie Weiner <laguna@...>
 

Dear Genners,

My mother's oldest brother was born in Europe in 1895, and word-of-mouth
within the family indicates the town name as St. Michaels (in modern
Hungarian Szentmiklos), Hungary. My grandmother's brother-in-law was
then living in Budapest. So I thought this town might be located
somewhere nearby -- but I don't find anything comparable on current
maps. Any suggestions?

Stephanie Weiner
Mt. Laguna, CA

SINGER/KORNGUT(H)/RIEGELHAUPT, Nowy Targ and Zakopane, Poland
TIGER/TIEGER, Kolomyya, Ukraine
GOLDENBERG, Iasi, Romania
COHEN/MICHEL, Bucharest, Romania


SERRINS & LEWIS #general

delete_this_to_reply_stacy_harris@...
 

Will the gentleman who kindly sent me information on the SERRINS
family of Titusville, PA and the LEWIS family of Oil City please resend?

During the process of ugrading Juno I lost all of my saved e-mail.

Thanks,
Stacy Harris


UK Wills Address #general

Miriam Margolyes <75342.3217@...>
 

A useful address for those researching rellies
in the British Isles (not Ireland) is:

The Probate Registry,
Duncombe Place,
York, YO1 7EA

ph:>from outside UK
+44 1904 624210
inside UK: 01904 624210

For a fee which used to be 35 sterling (may have gone up)
they will send a photocopy of a Will, but you must send the
date & place of death. Enclosing a copy of the Death Certificate
is the most useful way to do this.

And of course, a stamped-addressed envelope must be
included. I don't know if they have a website: if they do,
reference to it is encouraged.

Wills are very useful documents & I recommend using
them to discover unknown family members.

I stress this is for the UK only: I would welcome info
on where American wills might be found-presumably
done on a state-wide basis. Please reply to the Group
as I think this is pertinent information for most of us.

Miriam Margolyes
Santa Monica

email:
75342.3217@compuserve.com

searching: TURIANSKY (Bialystock) MARGOLYES
(Grodno & Amdur 19 C) LAZARUS (Berlin)