Dear Nathan and Bruce and anyone else dealing with this issue,

My sister is married to a man with the name of BERMAN. His parents came

from Lutsk. My brother-in-law is now about 80 years old. The story is this:

His name had always been GREENBERG (or some similar spelling), and he was
born in the USA. One day, he claims, he came home >from school and his father
told him that his name was now BERMAN. No explanation was given. All school
records, etc had to be changed.

When I first heard this a few years ago, I thought it rather strange.
However, this seems to be somewhat commonplace. Or is it only with the
Greenbergs ??!!<grin>

Just thought I throw in my 2 cents !

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@...

Dear Nathan and Bruce and anyone else dealing with this issue,

My sister is married to a man with the name of BERMAN. His parents came

from Lutsk. My brother-in-law is now about 80 years old. The story is this:

His name had always been GREENBERG (or some similar spelling), and he was
born in the USA. One day, he claims, he came home >from school and his father
told him that his name was now BERMAN. No explanation was given. All school
records, etc had to be changed.

When I first heard this a few years ago, I thought it rather strange.
However, this seems to be somewhat commonplace. Or is it only with the
Greenbergs ??!!<grin>

Just thought I throw in my 2 cents !

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@...

I have finally been successful accessing the Ellis Island passenger
records online. It takes persistence but I found that once I was able to
register I had an easier time staying in and/or reentering the site.
That is the good news.

However, I was having little success finding those elusive passengers
in my family so I decided to do some experimentation with names for
which I have already found the manifest entries, in the past ten years
of researching, while using the microfilmed NY passenger lists at the
Family History Center of the local Mormon church.

To test the capabilities of the Ellis Island online database, I started with
the record of my grandmother, Basie SOSNOVSKY (a.k.a. Sosnofsky,
etc.) I know >from previous research that she is listed on the manifest of
the S.S. Umbria (Cunard Line) sailing >from Liverpool to NY on July 18,
1903. I have the manifest page in front of me and her name is spelled
on the page "Base SASNOWSKY." In 1991 I had little trouble finding it
using the standard soundex method. That method also returned most
of the variations one might encounter including the "SKI" ending. However,
using the online database I was unable to access it unless I entered the
exact spelling on the manifest. When I used any of the "sound-alike"
spellings I met with failure even with the alternate spelling summary.
Needless to say, I have a new found respect for the use of the soundex
codes.

My next experiment, with the database, was to enter the name of a
great uncle who arrived on the S.S. Batavia, 14 Apr 1907, >from Hamburg.
Once again I had "found" him on that manifest by using the standard
soundex.

The name on the manifest is "Mottel Meziritzky." I have found many
of the entries for MEZHIRITZKY family members, all with different spellings
but all falling within the soundex code M263. With the manifest page in
front of me, I entered the name "Meziritzky." There was no such entry in
the database. Realizing that the vowels could easily be misinterpreted
by the transcriber, I tried substituting an "i" for the "e" with the same
result.

After numerous failed attempts to bring up the entry, I decided to conduct
yet another experiment with the database. I took one entry on the same
page that I was certain could not have been misinterpreted by the
transcriber and I entered it. It returned the correct entry, which then
allowed me to bring up the whole page, on which my relative was listed. In
comparing the database spelling with the actual page I began to see a
pattern of misinterpretation in the data entries. I believe this comes in
part >from the more strict criteria of the database search and in the data
entry itself. At least on this page, there was somewhat of a lack of
familiarity with Jewish given names.

The name of my relative was entered as "Mezwitzky" which would
totally change the soundex code. I no longer have a copy of the soundex
entry for this person but I am reasonably certain it was listed in the
"correct" soundex (M263) by the WPA.

As for the present database, my hope is that the search criteria can be
broadened to recognize the possibility that vowels are easily substituted
and should not be stringently applied. There is the matter of the way the
"sky" is often spelled as "ski" and vice versa. The substitution of the "j"
for the "i" and "w" for "v". All the variations that the NARA and
Daitch/Mokotoff soundex deal with beautifully. I know little about how a
database works but am hopeful that the current one used by the Ellis Island
project can still be modified.

Lois Sernoff [Philadelphia, PA]
<JGLois@...>

MEZHIRITZKY [MERITZ, MARRITZ, MARRITS] >from Korsun in Kiev Gub. to Phila.
SOSNOVSKY [SOSNOFSKY, SOSNOV - all spelling variations] >from Gorodishche
in Cherkassy uyezd, Kiev Gub.-> Ekaterinoslav -> Philadelphia, PA or
anywhere.
FRIEDMAN >from Beltsy/Balti ["Bels" Bessarabia] Moldova to anywhere
KUSHNER [all spelling variations} >from Tomashpol and Yampol in Podolia Gub.

I figured out a way to sort the Ellis Island research.

1. I save each web page under the same name -- numbering them 1, 2 3
etc.--like data1, data2
2. After I log off the website I open the page and copy and paste the data
into an Excel (2000 version) spread sheet.
3. After copying the data into a spread sheet , select the data and click
on edit, clear, formats--this will get rid of the HTML formatting.
4. Now your data is all alligned in rows which you can sort by alphabetical
order, date, residence etc

Worked for me

Genners:

When it is available, the original manifest image can be accessed by
scrolling to the bottom of the text manifest page and clicking a button
marked View Original Manifest (or something similar). Not all ships seemed
to have been scanned in yet. My pgm's ship, the Moskva, May 1907, is
scanned. My mggf's, the La Touraine in December 1902, is not.

Regards,

Marla Goldman
Mesa AZ

Researching:
GOLDMAN/CITRIN/KOPYT - Olyka, Volhynia, Ukraine/Philadelphia PA and Boston MA
USA
REINER - Germany or Russia?/Rosenhayn NJ/Philadelphia PA/Boston MA USA
BLEICHER/BLOCHER - Rumania/NYC NY/Philadelphia PA/Boston MA USA

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:21:50, Suee20@... opined:

Can anyone tell me what the words Chevra Adas means?

"Chevra" = "Society"
"Adat (Adas for Yiddish speakers)" is a genitive form of "Eidah",
which means "Flock" or "Congregation"

In respect to the synagogue you cite in another posting to this
newsgroup, the name of which contains these two words, the name is
grammatically defective, and should be "Chevrat Adat Wolkowiska"
(where the two Ts might be replaced by Ss in the accent used by the
congregants), which would mean "Society of the Congregation of
Wolkowisk" (the final A is dropped here, because it is a sign of the
genitive case in Russian).

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: To send me email, please delete the REMOVE_THIS >from my
address.

Gene Sucov wrote as follows:

"I tried to enter the website described below. The home page is quite
impressive with 3D, moving images. However, when I clicked on Enter, I got
an index list but with no way to go forward >from there. After trying 4
times to continue I got an error message. Very frustrating, especially
after the rave review by Prof. Esterson."

The amazing new web sight which allows you to walk through the Second
Temple in Jerusalem can be daunting. Navigation does require a bit of
ingenuity and second-guessing, because the requirements are not always
intuitive. Here's how to make it work for you.

When you first enter the site at < http://www.archpark.org.il >, there is a
longish, image-laden introduction. You can by-pass this by, at the bottom
of the home page, clicking on "Skip Intro." Or you can simply wait for the
Intro to finish and AUTOMATICALLY be brought to the main page. >from this
main page you have access to a menu bar at the top of the page, or to a
time-line at the bottom of the page.

>from the left side, the menu bar includes "Jerusalem Archeological
Park", "Davidson Center", and the "Virtual Reconstruction Model." The
first (JAP) and the third (VRM) are the main ones of interest to the
visitor to the site. However, don't neglect to check the time-line at the
bottom of the main page, where you can select and click on a time period
and obtain informative information about that period.

Enjoy.

Prof. G. L. Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE: This moderator also experienced some difficulty getting
into the site. Possibly the site is experiencing more traffic than
anticipated. As with other sites we may have heard something about lately
;-)}, persistence and timing may be the key.

I have finally been successful accessing the Ellis Island passenger
records online. It takes persistence but I found that once I was able to
register I had an easier time staying in and/or reentering the site.
That is the good news.

However, I was having little success finding those elusive passengers
in my family so I decided to do some experimentation with names for
which I have already found the manifest entries, in the past ten years
of researching, while using the microfilmed NY passenger lists at the
Family History Center of the local Mormon church.

To test the capabilities of the Ellis Island online database, I started with
the record of my grandmother, Basie SOSNOVSKY (a.k.a. Sosnofsky,
etc.) I know >from previous research that she is listed on the manifest of
the S.S. Umbria (Cunard Line) sailing >from Liverpool to NY on July 18,
1903. I have the manifest page in front of me and her name is spelled
on the page "Base SASNOWSKY." In 1991 I had little trouble finding it
using the standard soundex method. That method also returned most
of the variations one might encounter including the "SKI" ending. However,
using the online database I was unable to access it unless I entered the
exact spelling on the manifest. When I used any of the "sound-alike"
spellings I met with failure even with the alternate spelling summary.
Needless to say, I have a new found respect for the use of the soundex
codes.

My next experiment, with the database, was to enter the name of a
great uncle who arrived on the S.S. Batavia, 14 Apr 1907, >from Hamburg.
Once again I had "found" him on that manifest by using the standard
soundex.

The name on the manifest is "Mottel Meziritzky." I have found many
of the entries for MEZHIRITZKY family members, all with different spellings
but all falling within the soundex code M263. With the manifest page in
front of me, I entered the name "Meziritzky." There was no such entry in
the database. Realizing that the vowels could easily be misinterpreted
by the transcriber, I tried substituting an "i" for the "e" with the same
result.

After numerous failed attempts to bring up the entry, I decided to conduct
yet another experiment with the database. I took one entry on the same
page that I was certain could not have been misinterpreted by the
transcriber and I entered it. It returned the correct entry, which then
allowed me to bring up the whole page, on which my relative was listed. In
comparing the database spelling with the actual page I began to see a
pattern of misinterpretation in the data entries. I believe this comes in
part >from the more strict criteria of the database search and in the data
entry itself. At least on this page, there was somewhat of a lack of
familiarity with Jewish given names.

The name of my relative was entered as "Mezwitzky" which would
totally change the soundex code. I no longer have a copy of the soundex
entry for this person but I am reasonably certain it was listed in the
"correct" soundex (M263) by the WPA.

As for the present database, my hope is that the search criteria can be
broadened to recognize the possibility that vowels are easily substituted
and should not be stringently applied. There is the matter of the way the
"sky" is often spelled as "ski" and vice versa. The substitution of the "j"
for the "i" and "w" for "v". All the variations that the NARA and
Daitch/Mokotoff soundex deal with beautifully. I know little about how a
database works but am hopeful that the current one used by the Ellis Island
project can still be modified.

Lois Sernoff [Philadelphia, PA]
<JGLois@...>

MEZHIRITZKY [MERITZ, MARRITZ, MARRITS] >from Korsun in Kiev Gub. to Phila.
SOSNOVSKY [SOSNOFSKY, SOSNOV - all spelling variations] >from Gorodishche
in Cherkassy uyezd, Kiev Gub.-> Ekaterinoslav -> Philadelphia, PA or
anywhere.
FRIEDMAN >from Beltsy/Balti ["Bels" Bessarabia] Moldova to anywhere
KUSHNER [all spelling variations} >from Tomashpol and Yampol in Podolia Gub.

Genners:

When it is available, the original manifest image can be accessed by
scrolling to the bottom of the text manifest page and clicking a button
marked View Original Manifest (or something similar). Not all ships seemed
to have been scanned in yet. My pgm's ship, the Moskva, May 1907, is
scanned. My mggf's, the La Touraine in December 1902, is not.

Regards,

Marla Goldman
Mesa AZ

Researching:
GOLDMAN/CITRIN/KOPYT - Olyka, Volhynia, Ukraine/Philadelphia PA and Boston MA
USA
REINER - Germany or Russia?/Rosenhayn NJ/Philadelphia PA/Boston MA USA
BLEICHER/BLOCHER - Rumania/NYC NY/Philadelphia PA/Boston MA USA

I figured out a way to sort the Ellis Island research.

1. I save each web page under the same name -- numbering them 1, 2 3
etc.--like data1, data2
2. After I log off the website I open the page and copy and paste the data
into an Excel (2000 version) spread sheet.
3. After copying the data into a spread sheet , select the data and click
on edit, clear, formats--this will get rid of the HTML formatting.
4. Now your data is all alligned in rows which you can sort by alphabetical
order, date, residence etc

Worked for me

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:21:50, Suee20@... opined:

Can anyone tell me what the words Chevra Adas means?

"Chevra" = "Society"
"Adat (Adas for Yiddish speakers)" is a genitive form of "Eidah",
which means "Flock" or "Congregation"

In respect to the synagogue you cite in another posting to this
newsgroup, the name of which contains these two words, the name is
grammatically defective, and should be "Chevrat Adat Wolkowiska"
(where the two Ts might be replaced by Ss in the accent used by the
congregants), which would mean "Society of the Congregation of
Wolkowisk" (the final A is dropped here, because it is a sign of the
genitive case in Russian).

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: To send me email, please delete the REMOVE_THIS >from my
address.

Gene Sucov wrote as follows:

"I tried to enter the website described below. The home page is quite
impressive with 3D, moving images. However, when I clicked on Enter, I got
an index list but with no way to go forward >from there. After trying 4
times to continue I got an error message. Very frustrating, especially
after the rave review by Prof. Esterson."

The amazing new web sight which allows you to walk through the Second
Temple in Jerusalem can be daunting. Navigation does require a bit of
ingenuity and second-guessing, because the requirements are not always
intuitive. Here's how to make it work for you.

When you first enter the site at < http://www.archpark.org.il >, there is a
longish, image-laden introduction. You can by-pass this by, at the bottom
of the home page, clicking on "Skip Intro." Or you can simply wait for the
Intro to finish and AUTOMATICALLY be brought to the main page. >from this
main page you have access to a menu bar at the top of the page, or to a
time-line at the bottom of the page.

>from the left side, the menu bar includes "Jerusalem Archeological
Park", "Davidson Center", and the "Virtual Reconstruction Model." The
first (JAP) and the third (VRM) are the main ones of interest to the
visitor to the site. However, don't neglect to check the time-line at the
bottom of the main page, where you can select and click on a time period
and obtain informative information about that period.

Enjoy.

Prof. G. L. Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE: This moderator also experienced some difficulty getting
into the site. Possibly the site is experiencing more traffic than
anticipated. As with other sites we may have heard something about lately
;-)}, persistence and timing may be the key.

A second thought to my last email:

I also found on searching my great-great-grandmother's son in law's name (to
find his wife) that he had returned to Europe and come back again, 2nd time
with a relative of his wife's, something that I would not have noticed on
the Soundex, as I looked for and found the card for the *first* immigration,
and matching manifest, all matching the Naturalization papers, and would not
have looked any further [perhaps some of you are smarter than I, but, yes, I
would have quit there]

It was *impossible* to ignore the two "Joe Pfefferblum"s that popped up on
the Ellis site, though.

Debra J. Kay
debjkay@...
Simi Valley, CA

A JRI search gave us a male Skalat Pikholz descendant with the first
name Kafka. I wondered if it was a transcription error by the folks in
Warsaw, but we now have the record itself and there doesn't seem to
be any other way to read it.

A neighbor of mine suggests it may be a dimuitive of Yaakov, similar
to Kopel. Any other suggestions?

Israel Pickholtz

Nathan,

Batschkurinsky (Basia's maiden name) has probably an Ukrainian or Polish
origin. Probably in an original Polish it was written as: Baczkurinski
(Bachkurinsky) or Baszkurinski [Bashkurinsky] (>from Baszkir, surname appears
frequently in the JRI-P database).

Ragards,
--
Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta

Genners,

I need some of your very good ideas and suggestions.
Our original family surname is unknown.
The original parents of our family were Nachum and Basya. (Ukraine)
The Americanized surname of Greenberg was attached to them.
Basya's maiden name has been handed down as "Batshkurinsky" or some other
spelling or pronunciation.
There is a prevalent thought in the family that this might be a version of
the original surname.
This is not a commonplace name.
Can anyone offer a more known name >from this arrangement of sounds.

...

Nathan GREENBERG
San Diego, CA

Jews generally have both Yiddish (or Hebrew) and Slavic names. Ruchel is

I tried to enter the website described below. The home page is quite
impressive with 3D, moving images. However, when I clicked on Enter, I got
an index list but with no way to go forward >from there. After trying 4
times to continue I got an error message. Very frustrating, especially
after the rave review by Prof. Esterson.
Gene Sucov, Pittsburgh JGS, searching for
SUCHOWCZYCKI, Horodetz-Bialystok-US
SHLAFMITZ, Zaremby-Koscielne-US

I tried to enter the website described below. The home page is quite
impressive with 3D, moving images. However, when I clicked on Enter, I got
an index list but with no way to go forward >from there. After trying 4
times to continue I got an error message. Very frustrating, especially
after the rave review by Prof. Esterson.
Gene Sucov, Pittsburgh JGS, searching for
SUCHOWCZYCKI, Horodetz-Bialystok-US
SHLAFMITZ, Zaremby-Koscielne-US

Jews generally have both Yiddish (or Hebrew) and Slavic names. Ruchel is

A second thought to my last email:

I also found on searching my great-great-grandmother's son in law's name (to
find his wife) that he had returned to Europe and come back again, 2nd time
with a relative of his wife's, something that I would not have noticed on
the Soundex, as I looked for and found the card for the *first* immigration,
and matching manifest, all matching the Naturalization papers, and would not
have looked any further [perhaps some of you are smarter than I, but, yes, I
would have quit there]

It was *impossible* to ignore the two "Joe Pfefferblum"s that popped up on
the Ellis site, though.

Debra J. Kay
debjkay@...
Simi Valley, CA