Just to add my 2 cents to this very interesting discussion, born in
Kosice (Kassa), I was raised speaking 3 languages: Slovakian (my
father), Hungarian (my mother and German (my grandmother). We never
spoke yiddish and I never heard somebody in my family or close
relationship speaking yiddish. We did use a lot of yiddish
expressions. Even in concentration camp (Terezin), I don't recall
having heard somebody speaking yiddish. It is my impression (I could
be wrong), that yiddish was only spoken by the very orthodox Jews in
Northern Hungary (Ung, Sziget, Bereg, etc. counties). My mother's
family was orthodox, even so they didn't speak yiddish. They did
speak, once awhile, Hebrew, but their daily language was Hungarian.
German was the lingua franca of educated Jews, Hungarian the common
language and Slovak was spoken by nationalists such as my father.
Keep in mind that we were living under the Czechoslovak Republic and
President Tomas Masarik (after whom I was named) was a very much
admired philo-semite. Even President Benes, who followed Masarik, was
a friend of the Jews. Thus my father was a proud Czech-Slovak (he was
born in Presov-Eperjes).

Wishing to all a kosher Pessach sameach
Tom
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

Just to add my 2 cents to this very interesting discussion, born in
Kosice (Kassa), I was raised speaking 3 languages: Slovakian (my
father), Hungarian (my mother and German (my grandmother). We never
spoke yiddish and I never heard somebody in my family or close
relationship speaking yiddish. We did use a lot of yiddish
expressions. Even in concentration camp (Terezin), I don't recall
having heard somebody speaking yiddish. It is my impression (I could
be wrong), that yiddish was only spoken by the very orthodox Jews in
Northern Hungary (Ung, Sziget, Bereg, etc. counties). My mother's
family was orthodox, even so they didn't speak yiddish. They did
speak, once awhile, Hebrew, but their daily language was Hungarian.
German was the lingua franca of educated Jews, Hungarian the common
language and Slovak was spoken by nationalists such as my father.
Keep in mind that we were living under the Czechoslovak Republic and
President Tomas Masarik (after whom I was named) was a very much
admired philo-semite. Even President Benes, who followed Masarik, was
a friend of the Jews. Thus my father was a proud Czech-Slovak (he was
born in Presov-Eperjes).

Wishing to all a kosher Pessach sameach
Tom
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

Margarita Lacko wrote:
"My maternal grandfather was born in 1888 in Miskolc as Herman BLAU...
When he married, in 1924, his name was Erno BANO...
How can I find out where and when my grandfather changed his name?"

In my experience, birth records are often annotated with name changes.
For example, my maternal GM and her seven siblings were born named NEUMAN
in Murska Sobota, Slovenia in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Her four
brothers changed their name to TIMA'R IN 1917. This fact appears as an
annotation of each of their birth records in the Murska Sobota BMD record
book. I found the same thing of the family of a good friend in Baja, so the
practice must have been quite common.

Good luck, Margarita! I hope this helps.

Judy Bacskai
Kensington, California

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

<quote>
>| Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:10:27 -0500
>| Subject: H-jewish cooking
>|
>| Can anyone in our wonderful world-wide community give me
the title of a
>| good Hungarian-Jewish cookbook (in English)?? Good food is
definitely part
>| of our heritage, and while we probably all have
hand-written recipes, my
>| daughters are eager to have a real cook book. Sincerely,
>|
>|
>| mod. several months ago we had a scintalling discussion
about Hungarian cooking. You can find the
>| messages for that discussion in the H-sig archives on our
web page www.Jewishgen.org/Hungary.LS
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

<quote>
>| Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:10:27 -0500
>| Subject: H-jewish cooking
>|
>| Can anyone in our wonderful world-wide community give me
the title of a
>| good Hungarian-Jewish cookbook (in English)?? Good food is
definitely part
>| of our heritage, and while we probably all have
hand-written recipes, my
>| daughters are eager to have a real cook book. Sincerely,
>|
>|
>| mod. several months ago we had a scintalling discussion
about Hungarian cooking. You can find the
>| messages for that discussion in the H-sig archives on our
web page www.Jewishgen.org/Hungary.LS
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

Margarita Lacko wrote:
"My maternal grandfather was born in 1888 in Miskolc as Herman BLAU...
When he married, in 1924, his name was Erno BANO...
How can I find out where and when my grandfather changed his name?"

In my experience, birth records are often annotated with name changes.
For example, my maternal GM and her seven siblings were born named NEUMAN
in Murska Sobota, Slovenia in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Her four
brothers changed their name to TIMA'R IN 1917. This fact appears as an
annotation of each of their birth records in the Murska Sobota BMD record
book. I found the same thing of the family of a good friend in Baja, so the
practice must have been quite common.

Good luck, Margarita! I hope this helps.

Judy Bacskai
Kensington, California

My great-grandfather's (STRAUSZ, Adolf) tombstone says that his death =
occurred on 25 Eyyar 1923 (May? 25, 1923). I wrote to:
Miskolc Megyei Jogu Varosi Polgarmesteri Hivatal
3525 Miskolc
Varoshaz ter 8
Hungary
but did not get a reply. I don't think that LDS has any microfilm for the "=
current" years. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can obtain a =
death certificate for my great-grandfather?
Thank you,
Julie Strauss Kirsh

STRAUSZ, ADLER, ROSENBAUM, NAGY, SCHWARTZ, KLEIN, TIGERMANN, GRUNFELD in =
Miskolc, Hungary

Hi,

In reply to Margarita Laczko's question about where you can find proof of
name changes: I have one answer (though I am sure there are others). I have
a copy of the page >from my grandfather's birth registration (>from the Kajar
Israelite birth registry book). Strangely enough his family name was also
Blau, and was changed to Balazs. He was born in 1889, their name was changed
in 1913 and this change is noted (with date and official number) in the
right and column of the page called "notes" right on the line which records
his birth the names of parents, midwife, mohel, etc. This name change is
even added to my grandfather's older brother's registry page (born in
1879) - the changes were added in 1913.

I suppose this does not help if you have the birth registration and the name
change is not marked on it.

Judy Young
jy-abcd@...

My great-grandfather's (STRAUSZ, Adolf) tombstone says that his death =
occurred on 25 Eyyar 1923 (May? 25, 1923). I wrote to:
Miskolc Megyei Jogu Varosi Polgarmesteri Hivatal
3525 Miskolc
Varoshaz ter 8
Hungary
but did not get a reply. I don't think that LDS has any microfilm for the "=
current" years. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can obtain a =
death certificate for my great-grandfather?
Thank you,
Julie Strauss Kirsh

STRAUSZ, ADLER, ROSENBAUM, NAGY, SCHWARTZ, KLEIN, TIGERMANN, GRUNFELD in =
Miskolc, Hungary

Hi,

In reply to Margarita Laczko's question about where you can find proof of
name changes: I have one answer (though I am sure there are others). I have
a copy of the page >from my grandfather's birth registration (>from the Kajar
Israelite birth registry book). Strangely enough his family name was also
Blau, and was changed to Balazs. He was born in 1889, their name was changed
in 1913 and this change is noted (with date and official number) in the
right and column of the page called "notes" right on the line which records
his birth the names of parents, midwife, mohel, etc. This name change is
even added to my grandfather's older brother's registry page (born in
1879) - the changes were added in 1913.

I suppose this does not help if you have the birth registration and the name
change is not marked on it.

Judy Young
jy-abcd@...

Can anyone give me the mailing address for the regional or historical
archives in Sombor, Yugoslavia?

E. Randol Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
randols@...
http://www.schoenberglaw.com

I have found that my Hungarian relatives
do not for the most part speak Yiddish.

Whatever my father knows he learned
here. The son of the rabbi >from his town,
does speak Yiddish. So orthodoxy might
have been the key factor.

Avrumy Heschel mentioned that his interviews
were for the "YIVO Zamler Project").

Would they be interested in any of our
interviews with our relatives?

Michael Kelemen

I have found that my Hungarian relatives
do not for the most part speak Yiddish.

Whatever my father knows he learned
here. The son of the rabbi >from his town,
does speak Yiddish. So orthodoxy might
have been the key factor.

Avrumy Heschel mentioned that his interviews
were for the "YIVO Zamler Project").

Would they be interested in any of our
interviews with our relatives?

Michael Kelemen

Can anyone give me the mailing address for the regional or historical
archives in Sombor, Yugoslavia?

E. Randol Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
randols@...
http://www.schoenberglaw.com

What is the current/correct town name for Vag-Ujhely, Hungary? I am told
that it is now located in Slovakia in Nitra, Province. I am trying to
locate vital records of my great grandparents who were >from this town, and
may have been born there. It is also the birthplace of my maternal
grandfather and his siblings.

Also, in a comment regarding languages of the area: when my aunt was born in
Trencin, Slovakia in 1906 it was part of Austria-Hungary, and she was raised
to speak Hungarian. However, when my mother was born ten years later the
same town was part of Czechoslovakia. She was raised to speak
Czechoslovakian. It is no wonder that people in this general geographic
area sought a common language to be able to communicate with each other, and
that German became a common language as well as Yiddish.

Researching:

FRANKL, WEISZ - Vag-Uhjely, Hungary

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL USA

What is the current/correct town name for Vag-Ujhely, Hungary? I am told
that it is now located in Slovakia in Nitra, Province. I am trying to
locate vital records of my great grandparents who were >from this town, and
may have been born there. It is also the birthplace of my maternal
grandfather and his siblings.

Also, in a comment regarding languages of the area: when my aunt was born in
Trencin, Slovakia in 1906 it was part of Austria-Hungary, and she was raised
to speak Hungarian. However, when my mother was born ten years later the
same town was part of Czechoslovakia. She was raised to speak
Czechoslovakian. It is no wonder that people in this general geographic
area sought a common language to be able to communicate with each other, and
that German became a common language as well as Yiddish.

Researching:

FRANKL, WEISZ - Vag-Uhjely, Hungary

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL USA

the closest i can guess is "suszter", which means "shoemaker" or "cobbler".

regards,

....... tom klein, toronto

"Faith Gardner" <ragfhg@...> wrote:

fg>>> Yesterday in the 1869 Census, I found my great-grandmother's
fg>>> brother but was unable to make a copy and scan it in. His
fg>>> occupation is listed as what appears to be:
fg>>> "supher" There were no accent marks. Because the initial
fg>>> consonant was difficult to read, I have tried using others
fg>>> besides the "s", such as "f", but cannot find anything like it in
fg>>> my dictionary.
fg>>>
fg>>> I'm hoping that somebody can help me with a translation.

the closest i can guess is "suszter", which means "shoemaker" or "cobbler".

regards,

....... tom klein, toronto

"Faith Gardner" <ragfhg@...> wrote:

fg>>> Yesterday in the 1869 Census, I found my great-grandmother's
fg>>> brother but was unable to make a copy and scan it in. His
fg>>> occupation is listed as what appears to be:
fg>>> "supher" There were no accent marks. Because the initial
fg>>> consonant was difficult to read, I have tried using others
fg>>> besides the "s", such as "f", but cannot find anything like it in
fg>>> my dictionary.
fg>>>
fg>>> I'm hoping that somebody can help me with a translation.

This is evidence >from just one person, but my grandmother, who grew up in
Kassa (Kosice), supposedly spoke Hungarian and attended the gymnasium
(secular high school?) but Yiddish was her first language and the one she
spoke most comfortably with my grandfather and my father; her English never
was that good, even after many years here.
Speaking of food (i.e, charoseth), she used to bake something called
"tzibele pletzels". Does anyone know what this is and perhaps have a recipe
for it?
Happy Pesach/Chag Sameach to all.
Judy Floam
Baltimore, Md.
-------------
Judy and Gary Floam
3300 Marnat Road
Baltimore, MD 21208 USofA

After receiving several inquiries on my posting I realized that I was not
clear in my original message. I did not mean to make a generalities about
the many Jews in Hungary - that would be a veritable impossibility. I simply
reported on the interviews I had conducted, which although were mostly of
religious Jews >from only a handful of towns and cities and thus not a true
scientific representative, I felt would be of interest to the group.

Regards,

Avrumy Heschel

Brooklyn NY