Date   

census question #hungary

John Rothchild <jroth@...>
 

In an 1843 census document, as several H-SIG members have helpfully
responded, I two columns that are supposed to contain the number of girl
children and boy children attached to each head of family, yet there are
never more than two boys or two girls marked in either of the columns, and
most entries have only one or none in each column. Is there some reason
why a census taker in 1843 would have wanted to count up to only two
children of each sex and no more? It can't be that every Jewish family was
hiding their children >from the census-taker, can it?? --Joan Hartman
(jroth@cpcug.org)


Hungary SIG #Hungary census question #hungary

John Rothchild <jroth@...>
 

In an 1843 census document, as several H-SIG members have helpfully
responded, I two columns that are supposed to contain the number of girl
children and boy children attached to each head of family, yet there are
never more than two boys or two girls marked in either of the columns, and
most entries have only one or none in each column. Is there some reason
why a census taker in 1843 would have wanted to count up to only two
children of each sex and no more? It can't be that every Jewish family was
hiding their children >from the census-taker, can it?? --Joan Hartman
(jroth@cpcug.org)


Name changes and Posting #ukraine

SelmaN@...
 

In a recent message someone wrote:
<<[those] registering our ancestors ...did not have the "authority" to
change names ... If you think there weren't misspellings and mistakes, bad
copying etc., purposeful or not, and if you think that the average
immigrant was going to challenge authority that could send them back, it
is simply not the case. So...you're right no authority to do so, but
somehow it happened ...>>
I think I need to jump in here. A search in the JewishGen Archives
should bring up emails written by Rafi Guber, who I believe has explained
why names were not changed at Ellis Island; that the immigrants names were
put on the ships' manifests at the port >from which they left; and the
immigrants answered to those names on the manifests upon arrival. But,
I'm hardly an expert, and I suggest a search through the Archives for
Rafi's writings. Immigrants "Americanized" their names in many ways once
in the US. One of those ways was to tell the Court in which they were
being naturalized that they wanted their names changed.

Selma Neubauer
Philadelphia, PA USA
SelmaN@aol.com

MODERATORS NOTE: Personal references were edited. This thread has
now been exhausted.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Name changes and Posting #ukraine

SelmaN@...
 

In a recent message someone wrote:
<<[those] registering our ancestors ...did not have the "authority" to
change names ... If you think there weren't misspellings and mistakes, bad
copying etc., purposeful or not, and if you think that the average
immigrant was going to challenge authority that could send them back, it
is simply not the case. So...you're right no authority to do so, but
somehow it happened ...>>
I think I need to jump in here. A search in the JewishGen Archives
should bring up emails written by Rafi Guber, who I believe has explained
why names were not changed at Ellis Island; that the immigrants names were
put on the ships' manifests at the port >from which they left; and the
immigrants answered to those names on the manifests upon arrival. But,
I'm hardly an expert, and I suggest a search through the Archives for
Rafi's writings. Immigrants "Americanized" their names in many ways once
in the US. One of those ways was to tell the Court in which they were
being naturalized that they wanted their names changed.

Selma Neubauer
Philadelphia, PA USA
SelmaN@aol.com

MODERATORS NOTE: Personal references were edited. This thread has
now been exhausted.


*Re: Tax Census 1828 LDS film #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello friends,

Something worth mentioning that those who have searched the 1828
census well know. This census has two major advantages for the Jewish
researcher. Many town sheets (but not all) identify the Jewish tax
payers with words such as Jud, Jude, Judeus or similar. Clearly this
was an anti-semitic touch the censors added to their surveying, but
now this is of tremendous help for the researcher. The second
interesting feature is that, very likely, this is the first survey in
which Hungarian Jews carried a surname. It was through this census
that I learned that one of my ancestors was named Isaac VINACZY.

I would also recommend to decode the 14th column "Observationes".
Sometimes it contains very useful information about the person in
question. Of course you will need to have somebody translate the
Latin writing.

As for the headings of each column, here is the English translation
of each one (courtesy of Family Tree):

1. taxpayer's name - head of the household

2. family members between 18 and 60 (children, relatives, employees)

3. details of the column 2 contents (what kind of people were
listed). The columns are headed by the phrase "among these" (ex his
sunt) and >from left to right these are the entries: honoratior,
citizen, serf cotter, homeless cotter, sibling, boy, girl, servant,
server, tradesman, salesman, merchant

4. house after which rent is paid and the rental amount

5. inner court (sq. meter and price)

6. cultivation of corn
a. serf or citizen rights to the land
b. taxpayer's profit per unit
c. percentage of profit in units
d. usual price of the harvest

7. fields
a. serf or citizen rights to the profit
b. fields belonging to the lands

8. vineyards
a. size in Pozsony measurement
b. profit per unit

9. apple and plum orchards
a. number of scythes
b. profit on one scythe's worth of land

10. larger animals
a. yoke oxen
b. calves or cows
c. barren cows
d. steers and heifers over 3 years old
e. steers and heifers over 2 years old
f. studs and draught horses over 3 years old
g. studs and draught horses over 2 years old

11. It's not clear but seems to list sheep and goats.

12. Forests

13. Pub rental rights

14. Notes >from the censor

Each page has a header which indicates the jurisdiction (usually the
name of the county, varhely in Hungarian - Nomen Jurisdictionis in
Latin) and the district (Nomen Loci Conscripti)

From: Gary Luke <feraltek@zeta.org.au>

Has anyone had a look at the LDS films of the Census of the Taxable
Population of Hungary 1828, LDS films #622941 to #623771? What sort of
information does it have?
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary *Re: Tax Census 1828 LDS film #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello friends,

Something worth mentioning that those who have searched the 1828
census well know. This census has two major advantages for the Jewish
researcher. Many town sheets (but not all) identify the Jewish tax
payers with words such as Jud, Jude, Judeus or similar. Clearly this
was an anti-semitic touch the censors added to their surveying, but
now this is of tremendous help for the researcher. The second
interesting feature is that, very likely, this is the first survey in
which Hungarian Jews carried a surname. It was through this census
that I learned that one of my ancestors was named Isaac VINACZY.

I would also recommend to decode the 14th column "Observationes".
Sometimes it contains very useful information about the person in
question. Of course you will need to have somebody translate the
Latin writing.

As for the headings of each column, here is the English translation
of each one (courtesy of Family Tree):

1. taxpayer's name - head of the household

2. family members between 18 and 60 (children, relatives, employees)

3. details of the column 2 contents (what kind of people were
listed). The columns are headed by the phrase "among these" (ex his
sunt) and >from left to right these are the entries: honoratior,
citizen, serf cotter, homeless cotter, sibling, boy, girl, servant,
server, tradesman, salesman, merchant

4. house after which rent is paid and the rental amount

5. inner court (sq. meter and price)

6. cultivation of corn
a. serf or citizen rights to the land
b. taxpayer's profit per unit
c. percentage of profit in units
d. usual price of the harvest

7. fields
a. serf or citizen rights to the profit
b. fields belonging to the lands

8. vineyards
a. size in Pozsony measurement
b. profit per unit

9. apple and plum orchards
a. number of scythes
b. profit on one scythe's worth of land

10. larger animals
a. yoke oxen
b. calves or cows
c. barren cows
d. steers and heifers over 3 years old
e. steers and heifers over 2 years old
f. studs and draught horses over 3 years old
g. studs and draught horses over 2 years old

11. It's not clear but seems to list sheep and goats.

12. Forests

13. Pub rental rights

14. Notes >from the censor

Each page has a header which indicates the jurisdiction (usually the
name of the county, varhely in Hungarian - Nomen Jurisdictionis in
Latin) and the district (Nomen Loci Conscripti)

From: Gary Luke <feraltek@zeta.org.au>

Has anyone had a look at the LDS films of the Census of the Taxable
Population of Hungary 1828, LDS films #622941 to #623771? What sort of
information does it have?
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Researching Frankfurt, Wohlgemuth #hungary

Ellen I. Goldberg <Ellen@...>
 

I am very impressed with the quality of information shared by H-Sig and
am hoping someone will be able help me find my father's family. His
mother was the daughter of Liebe (Lajos/Louis) Frankfurt of Abaujszanto
or Fany/Fony, and Esther Wohlgemuth of Tokaj. Each parent was born in
1854. Their children were: my grandmother Rose/Regina (married Hyman
Israel nee Dachslager), Fanny (married __Baurer) and Herman( married
Bella Gluck). The daughters came to Connecticut, while the son Herman
and his wife, who remained in Hungary, presumably died in the Holocaust
.

I believe Liebe's parents were Moses Joseph Frankfurt and Rosi/Rachel
Widder. Other children were Luszel, Lisel, Abraham, Nathan, Debora,
Gitel and Linka. Names appearing in the LDS records in connection with
the family include Rosenberg, Auerbach, Schwarz, Rosler and Berkovits.
Abraham's name appears as Frankfurter in 1893. His children (with Hani
Auerbach) >from 1888-1894 are listed as Sverin, Ede, Esther, Miksa,
Hanvick and Samm. Several died in infancy.

Wohlgemuth names >from Tokaj include Samson (Esther's father), Samuel,
Farkas, another Samuel and Moses. Names in the next generation, besides
Esther, are Sheindel (1868), daughter of Samuel and Hani Sachs;
Fredrick and Samuel, sons of Farkas and Rosa Rosenberg; Mayer and Mari,
children of the other Samuel and Lali Lichtenberg; Josua, son of Moses
and Rebecca; and Moses and Frumeh (don't know if they were children of
Samuel or husband and wife. Another Wohlgemuth married Wolf
Spielberger, whose daughter was Lena in 1854.

Although I'm not sure of all the relationships, I have been in contact
with some of the Wohlgemuth decendents who are definitely related. The
only Frankfurts I know are my grandmother's nephew and family.

I'd appreciate any help you might provide. Thank you.

Ellen Israel Goldberg
5054 Oak Shadows Drive
Houston, Texas 77091
713/686-5867


Hungary SIG #Hungary Researching Frankfurt, Wohlgemuth #hungary

Ellen I. Goldberg <Ellen@...>
 

I am very impressed with the quality of information shared by H-Sig and
am hoping someone will be able help me find my father's family. His
mother was the daughter of Liebe (Lajos/Louis) Frankfurt of Abaujszanto
or Fany/Fony, and Esther Wohlgemuth of Tokaj. Each parent was born in
1854. Their children were: my grandmother Rose/Regina (married Hyman
Israel nee Dachslager), Fanny (married __Baurer) and Herman( married
Bella Gluck). The daughters came to Connecticut, while the son Herman
and his wife, who remained in Hungary, presumably died in the Holocaust
.

I believe Liebe's parents were Moses Joseph Frankfurt and Rosi/Rachel
Widder. Other children were Luszel, Lisel, Abraham, Nathan, Debora,
Gitel and Linka. Names appearing in the LDS records in connection with
the family include Rosenberg, Auerbach, Schwarz, Rosler and Berkovits.
Abraham's name appears as Frankfurter in 1893. His children (with Hani
Auerbach) >from 1888-1894 are listed as Sverin, Ede, Esther, Miksa,
Hanvick and Samm. Several died in infancy.

Wohlgemuth names >from Tokaj include Samson (Esther's father), Samuel,
Farkas, another Samuel and Moses. Names in the next generation, besides
Esther, are Sheindel (1868), daughter of Samuel and Hani Sachs;
Fredrick and Samuel, sons of Farkas and Rosa Rosenberg; Mayer and Mari,
children of the other Samuel and Lali Lichtenberg; Josua, son of Moses
and Rebecca; and Moses and Frumeh (don't know if they were children of
Samuel or husband and wife. Another Wohlgemuth married Wolf
Spielberger, whose daughter was Lena in 1854.

Although I'm not sure of all the relationships, I have been in contact
with some of the Wohlgemuth decendents who are definitely related. The
only Frankfurts I know are my grandmother's nephew and family.

I'd appreciate any help you might provide. Thank you.

Ellen Israel Goldberg
5054 Oak Shadows Drive
Houston, Texas 77091
713/686-5867


Translation #hungary

Andrew Sanders <atsmord@...>
 

Re: John Rothchild's questions:

Ossze irasa -- its listing
Munkatsi Jaras Also -- Lower Munkacs District
.. dor tero Zsido folenete -- ? (Other than Zsido=Jewish, there are no
such words)
Neve a csalados teno fonch -- ? (Name of the family ... there is no teno
or fonch)

Hazi gazda vagy Gazdasszony, neve -- Landlord's or Landlady's name
Hazi csaladod attya vagy annya (should be atyja vagy anyja) -- Father or
Mother
of your home family
Felesegek -- wives
Ezzel egy: fiu gyermek and (?) leany gyermek -- with this, one: boy and
girl
Testverek -- siblings

I hope that some other respondents will have more luck with the third
and fourth items.

Andrew Sanders


Hungary SIG #Hungary Translation #hungary

Andrew Sanders <atsmord@...>
 

Re: John Rothchild's questions:

Ossze irasa -- its listing
Munkatsi Jaras Also -- Lower Munkacs District
.. dor tero Zsido folenete -- ? (Other than Zsido=Jewish, there are no
such words)
Neve a csalados teno fonch -- ? (Name of the family ... there is no teno
or fonch)

Hazi gazda vagy Gazdasszony, neve -- Landlord's or Landlady's name
Hazi csaladod attya vagy annya (should be atyja vagy anyja) -- Father or
Mother
of your home family
Felesegek -- wives
Ezzel egy: fiu gyermek and (?) leany gyermek -- with this, one: boy and
girl
Testverek -- siblings

I hope that some other respondents will have more luck with the third
and fourth items.

Andrew Sanders


Help with transcription #hungary

E. Randol Schoenberg <randols@...>
 

I need help transcribing two notes left behind by my great-great grandfather
Max Schwarz (b. 1853 Pezinok (Boesing), Slovakia, d. 1938 Vienna, Austria).
Normally I can decipher the old gothic script, but I am having trouble with
his. The second page is in pencil on the back of the first and will
probably be too hard to read. But the first page is in pen and looks like
it starts "Meine Urgrossmutter, Grossmutter, Mutter, ich und jetzt du" (My
great-grandmother, grandmother, mother, I and now you . . ." I don't need a
translation, "just" a transcription.

The notes are viewable on-line thanks to JewishGen's ViewMate at
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview58.html#vm162

Thanks in advance,

E. Randol Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
randols@primenet.com
http://www.primenet.com/~randols
randols@schoenberglaw.com
http://www.schoenberglaw.com


Isaac Joel Linetsky #yiddish

BLINETT@...
 

Hello, all. I was wondering if anyone had information on Isaac Joel
LINETSKY. A Yiddish author, his most famous work was The Polish Lad, a
work that sent tremors through the Hasidic community throughout Eastern
Europe.

Originally >from Vinnitsa, and a son of a rabbi (Yosef Jacoblevich
Linetsky), he later moved to Odessa, where he was buried in 1915.

I am looking for any and all relatives.

Bob Linett


Hungary SIG #Hungary Help with transcription #hungary

E. Randol Schoenberg <randols@...>
 

I need help transcribing two notes left behind by my great-great grandfather
Max Schwarz (b. 1853 Pezinok (Boesing), Slovakia, d. 1938 Vienna, Austria).
Normally I can decipher the old gothic script, but I am having trouble with
his. The second page is in pencil on the back of the first and will
probably be too hard to read. But the first page is in pen and looks like
it starts "Meine Urgrossmutter, Grossmutter, Mutter, ich und jetzt du" (My
great-grandmother, grandmother, mother, I and now you . . ." I don't need a
translation, "just" a transcription.

The notes are viewable on-line thanks to JewishGen's ViewMate at
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview58.html#vm162

Thanks in advance,

E. Randol Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
randols@primenet.com
http://www.primenet.com/~randols
randols@schoenberglaw.com
http://www.schoenberglaw.com


Yiddish Theatre and Vadeville #YiddishTheatre Isaac Joel Linetsky #yiddish

BLINETT@...
 

Hello, all. I was wondering if anyone had information on Isaac Joel
LINETSKY. A Yiddish author, his most famous work was The Polish Lad, a
work that sent tremors through the Hasidic community throughout Eastern
Europe.

Originally >from Vinnitsa, and a son of a rabbi (Yosef Jacoblevich
Linetsky), he later moved to Odessa, where he was buried in 1915.

I am looking for any and all relatives.

Bob Linett


Re: NYBC and digitization #yizkorbooks

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Joyce Eastman wrote:

What a great thing it would be to have all yizkor books digitized and
available for purchase.

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL
This is a great thing, but keep in mind that these digitized Yikor books
will not be available in English translation.

Tilford Bartman


Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks Re: NYBC and digitization #yizkorbooks

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Joyce Eastman wrote:

What a great thing it would be to have all yizkor books digitized and
available for purchase.

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL
This is a great thing, but keep in mind that these digitized Yikor books
will not be available in English translation.

Tilford Bartman


Digitization of Yizkor books by NYBC #yizkorbooks

sidney zabludoff <sozablud@...>
 

Two years ago I published a Yizkor book in English (translated from
Russian). The costs were high, but a small group of us contributed and
raised funds for the project. We also invested hundreds of hours of our
time and skills as a labor of love. Needless to say, I had to get
permission to issue this English-language edition >from the original
publisher in Israel, who held the copyright of the Russian edition.

Upon publication, we donated some 200 copies of the book to Holocaust
organizations, public and university libraries and institutions.
Naturally, the New York Public Library was a recipient, as well as the
NYBC.

We later discovered there was a market for the book, so we started
selling copies to individuals and organizations who could afford to pay
for the book. The proceeds have been going into a fund earmarked for the
restoration and maintenance of the mass grave sites and the old Jewish
cemetery in the shtetl the book commemorates. We feel this is a
wonderful way to recycle the success of our effort into another
worthwhile project.

Do you mean that the NYBC can now legally digitize the book that I
donated to the New York Public Library? And do this for profit?
Something is very wrong.

Olga Zabludoff


Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks Digitization of Yizkor books by NYBC #yizkorbooks

sidney zabludoff <sozablud@...>
 

Two years ago I published a Yizkor book in English (translated from
Russian). The costs were high, but a small group of us contributed and
raised funds for the project. We also invested hundreds of hours of our
time and skills as a labor of love. Needless to say, I had to get
permission to issue this English-language edition >from the original
publisher in Israel, who held the copyright of the Russian edition.

Upon publication, we donated some 200 copies of the book to Holocaust
organizations, public and university libraries and institutions.
Naturally, the New York Public Library was a recipient, as well as the
NYBC.

We later discovered there was a market for the book, so we started
selling copies to individuals and organizations who could afford to pay
for the book. The proceeds have been going into a fund earmarked for the
restoration and maintenance of the mass grave sites and the old Jewish
cemetery in the shtetl the book commemorates. We feel this is a
wonderful way to recycle the success of our effort into another
worthwhile project.

Do you mean that the NYBC can now legally digitize the book that I
donated to the New York Public Library? And do this for profit?
Something is very wrong.

Olga Zabludoff


Re: RAPOPORT #general

NFatouros@...
 

On a couple of my maternal grandfather's documents his mother's name
appears as "Beila Shifra Jos.Meerovna." Her married name was BELKOVSKY.
from some old letters written by a Chaim RAPOPORT >from Palestine during the
1930's to my grandfather, I learned that Chaim was the grandson of Jacob
Israel Rapoport who, as he explained, was the brother of my grandfather's
mother. I can only assume that my great grandmother was a RAPOPORT daughter.

So I am asking RAPORPORT-RAPPAPORT researchers whether they know of a
Joseph Meier RAPOPORT who might have lived in Berdichev, or Radomysl, or
some other town near Berdichev, or who might be connected to the Rapoport
family of Tarnopol which is discussed in the RAPOPORT chapter by Chaim's
brother Arieh RAPOPORT in the Podwolchisk Yizkor book.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


December issue of Shemot #general

david fielker <david@...>
 

The December issue of Shemot, the journal of the JGS of Great Britain, will
be out next week.

Topics covered include details of speakers for the 2001 London Conference;
personal researches in London, Berlin, Poland and the US; mid-19th-century
passenger records at the Public Record Office at Kew; using the Library in
Salt Lake City.

Visit our website <http://www.ort.org/jgsgb> where among other things you
can find a list of articles published in previous issues. There is also
information on membership which will entitle you to your own copies.

David Fielker
Editor: Shemot
JGS of Gt Britain