Dear Lawrence:


Most likely, this is an extract of a marriage registration, and not the
registration itself. This is probably the German version of the sort of
extract we wold receive in Polish >from the local town hall if we asked for
records that are less than 100 years old. The registration and marriage
probably took place in 1908 in Zloczew, but this document probably reflects
a 1940 extract prepared by the local German authorities and send to the
couple in the US.

As for why this document was requested, my guess is that the couple needed
proof of their marriage for immigration, naturalization, social security or
other reasons. It may be worthwhile to find out what was going on in their
lives at this time to answer that question.

I do find it interesting that the German occupying civil officials responded
to the request. I do not think at this early date ghettoization of the Jews
was taking place, but the United States had not entered the War yet, so a
request >from the US for an official record may have been responded to. The
existence of the record does demonstrate that there was some sort of civil
bureaucracy in existence at the time.

Joe Ross

Dear Lawrence:


Most likely, this is an extract of a marriage registration, and not the
registration itself. This is probably the German version of the sort of
extract we wold receive in Polish >from the local town hall if we asked for
records that are less than 100 years old. The registration and marriage
probably took place in 1908 in Zloczew, but this document probably reflects
a 1940 extract prepared by the local German authorities and send to the
couple in the US.

As for why this document was requested, my guess is that the couple needed
proof of their marriage for immigration, naturalization, social security or
other reasons. It may be worthwhile to find out what was going on in their
lives at this time to answer that question.

I do find it interesting that the German occupying civil officials responded
to the request. I do not think at this early date ghettoization of the Jews
was taking place, but the United States had not entered the War yet, so a
request >from the US for an official record may have been responded to. The
existence of the record does demonstrate that there was some sort of civil
bureaucracy in existence at the time.

Joe Ross

Dear Belinda:

JRI-Poland's AGAD Project will be a great help to you. This project involves
the indexing of all 19th Century vital records housed at the AGAD Archives in
Warsaw. Vital records for Kamionka Strumilowa, Lwow, Zloczow, Sasow, and
Gologory are included. You can find more information about this project at
our web page at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/agad/>.

The vital records for the smaller towns Snowicz and Remizowce were registered
in Zloczow. If any subscribers have not found their town in the list of AGAD
towns, it could be that that town's vital events were registered in a nearby
larger town. As had previously been pointed out on this forum, PolishRoots
provides a Town Locator at <http://www.polishroots.com/galicia_towns.htm>
that identifies the district town where Jewish Vital Records were registered
in 1900.

Each of the towns that you are researching will be part of Phase 2 of the
AGAD Project. Keep tuned to this forum for Phase 2 announcements within the
next few weeks.

Mark Halpern
AGAD Project Coordinator
JRI-Poland
===============================================

In a message dated 2/24/01 12:41:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
belinda.dishon@... writes:

Searching for following people from:

>from KAMIONKA STRUMILOWA: Avrom PECZENIK & his wife.
Children: Heinech Yoshe, Yentele & possibly another child

>from LVOV: Hersh PECZENIK, his wife and 2 children
Regina PRAGER & her husband Lonek GOLDMAN, Son Geoffrey

>from ZLOCOV: PECZENIK & KATZ (dressmaker had 2 daughters, 1 died just
before the war)

>from SASOV: PECZENIK, KATZ, PRAGER, YAKER/YUCKER

>from SNOVICZ: Yisroel& Bayleh KATZ & their children Moshe & Sheye (known
as Oskar in the Polish army, Ukraininan spelling - Sziye).
Leibish PECZENIK (Known in Polish as Leone), also Klara(wife), Sala & Mela
PECZENIK,Fruma PECZENIK(Leibish's mother)
KOHN: Basia & her 2 children Awromcio (Avromche) & Jetka
PRAGER/GOLDMAN: Regina lived there for a while.

>from REMIZOWCE: Yente PRAGER/KATZ

Also need to find the link between PECZENIK >from Gologory and

abovementioned

PECZENIK

Many thanks for any help

Dear Belinda:

JRI-Poland's AGAD Project will be a great help to you. This project involves
the indexing of all 19th Century vital records housed at the AGAD Archives in
Warsaw. Vital records for Kamionka Strumilowa, Lwow, Zloczow, Sasow, and
Gologory are included. You can find more information about this project at
our web page at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/agad/>.

The vital records for the smaller towns Snowicz and Remizowce were registered
in Zloczow. If any subscribers have not found their town in the list of AGAD
towns, it could be that that town's vital events were registered in a nearby
larger town. As had previously been pointed out on this forum, PolishRoots
provides a Town Locator at <http://www.polishroots.com/galicia_towns.htm>
that identifies the district town where Jewish Vital Records were registered
in 1900.

Each of the towns that you are researching will be part of Phase 2 of the
AGAD Project. Keep tuned to this forum for Phase 2 announcements within the
next few weeks.

Mark Halpern
AGAD Project Coordinator
JRI-Poland
===============================================

In a message dated 2/24/01 12:41:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
belinda.dishon@... writes:

Searching for following people from:

>from KAMIONKA STRUMILOWA: Avrom PECZENIK & his wife.
Children: Heinech Yoshe, Yentele & possibly another child

>from LVOV: Hersh PECZENIK, his wife and 2 children
Regina PRAGER & her husband Lonek GOLDMAN, Son Geoffrey

>from ZLOCOV: PECZENIK & KATZ (dressmaker had 2 daughters, 1 died just
before the war)

>from SASOV: PECZENIK, KATZ, PRAGER, YAKER/YUCKER

>from SNOVICZ: Yisroel& Bayleh KATZ & their children Moshe & Sheye (known
as Oskar in the Polish army, Ukraininan spelling - Sziye).
Leibish PECZENIK (Known in Polish as Leone), also Klara(wife), Sala & Mela
PECZENIK,Fruma PECZENIK(Leibish's mother)
KOHN: Basia & her 2 children Awromcio (Avromche) & Jetka
PRAGER/GOLDMAN: Regina lived there for a while.

>from REMIZOWCE: Yente PRAGER/KATZ

Also need to find the link between PECZENIK >from Gologory and

abovementioned

PECZENIK

Many thanks for any help

First time writing for me. Myra Brenner Rothenberg here in Seattle.
Thought I'd try and see if any Bobrkar or really near folk are looking
and can find a match to their relatives. Here are my names:

BRENNER, HOCHBERG, EHRLICH, SPRITZER, MEHL, SCHMIER....Anyone out there,
check in, please. and thanks..myra

[Moderator note: Welcome Myra. I think you will find almost all these
names in the JGFF: www.jewishgen.org/jgff ]

First time writing for me. Myra Brenner Rothenberg here in Seattle.
Thought I'd try and see if any Bobrkar or really near folk are looking
and can find a match to their relatives. Here are my names:

BRENNER, HOCHBERG, EHRLICH, SPRITZER, MEHL, SCHMIER....Anyone out there,
check in, please. and thanks..myra

[Moderator note: Welcome Myra. I think you will find almost all these
names in the JGFF: www.jewishgen.org/jgff ]

Dear East Galician Researchers:

Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is proud to announce the following additions
to our growing database of 19th Century vital record indices >from Poland.

Podwoloczyska Births: 1877-1889
Skalat Births: 1859-1883
Tarnopol Births: 1898-1899
Tarnopol Marriages: 1898-1899
Zborow Births: 1877-1890
Zborow Deaths: 1877-1886

These records can be ordered >from the AGAD Archives using the Special Interim
Procedures that are linked to your search results. These Procedures can be
read at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/psa/psaagadinst.htm>.

Additionally, indices for 1877-1896 Podwoloczyska Deaths have been added to
the database. However, since AGAD only has the Index to these death records,
the actual record cannot be ordered through AGAD. We understand that these
death records may be housed at the Lviv branch of the Central State Archives
of Ukraine.

With this addition of nearly 10,000 indices, the AGAD project has now added
over 30,000 vital record indices to the JRI-Poland database. Search the
database today at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/jriplweb.htm>. To search
all the AGAD (East Galician -- currently Ukraine) indices, make sure that
Province = Ukraine on the search page. To search only a specific town, enter
that town name.

We wish all East Galician researchers success in their search. We encourage
researchers to share their successes with all of us by posting their stories
to this forum.

Indexing for the following towns in the Tarnopol area continues. If you are
interested in one or more of these towns, please contact me. These indices
will only be added to the database when certain objectives are met.

Brzezany, Kozlow, Mikulince, Podwoloczyska, Tarnopol, Zalozce, and Zbaraz

For more information about the AGAD project, please see our webpage at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/agad/>.

Happy Hunting,

Mark Halpern
AGAD Project Coordinator
JRI-Poland

Dear East Galician Researchers:

Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is proud to announce the following additions
to our growing database of 19th Century vital record indices >from Poland.

Podwoloczyska Births: 1877-1889
Skalat Births: 1859-1883
Tarnopol Births: 1898-1899
Tarnopol Marriages: 1898-1899
Zborow Births: 1877-1890
Zborow Deaths: 1877-1886

These records can be ordered >from the AGAD Archives using the Special Interim
Procedures that are linked to your search results. These Procedures can be
read at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/psa/psaagadinst.htm>.

Additionally, indices for 1877-1896 Podwoloczyska Deaths have been added to
the database. However, since AGAD only has the Index to these death records,
the actual record cannot be ordered through AGAD. We understand that these
death records may be housed at the Lviv branch of the Central State Archives
of Ukraine.

With this addition of nearly 10,000 indices, the AGAD project has now added
over 30,000 vital record indices to the JRI-Poland database. Search the
database today at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/jriplweb.htm>. To search
all the AGAD (East Galician -- currently Ukraine) indices, make sure that
Province = Ukraine on the search page. To search only a specific town, enter
that town name.

We wish all East Galician researchers success in their search. We encourage
researchers to share their successes with all of us by posting their stories
to this forum.

Indexing for the following towns in the Tarnopol area continues. If you are
interested in one or more of these towns, please contact me. These indices
will only be added to the database when certain objectives are met.

Brzezany, Kozlow, Mikulince, Podwoloczyska, Tarnopol, Zalozce, and Zbaraz

For more information about the AGAD project, please see our webpage at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/agad/>.

Happy Hunting,

Mark Halpern
AGAD Project Coordinator
JRI-Poland

Dear All:

Please allow me to offer my sincerest thanks to all the people who have
contributed so many superb comments to my questions. I have already sent
personal notes of thanks to many of you, however I wanted to publicly thank
everyone who has contributed. Your answers have confirmed many of my
thoughts on the matter and have provided incredible insights.

Regrettably, all the immigrant generations of my family, as well as the
first American generation have all passed on and with them the Galitzianer
Yiddish they spoke and the Galitzianer Hebrew dialect they used in prayer.
Though I can't speak as they spoke, in adopting the Sefardic Liturgy, I can
at least recite the words they recited. This, and the genealogical
research I'm doing allows me to remain connected with those I miss so much
and to introduce my dear bride, Rachel to a family she'll never be able to
meet.

Thank you again and have a very happy Purim.

Mike Sturm
Reply to ka2e@...

Researching: Hauser, Hirschhorn, Horowitz and Sturm
Family Trees at: http://ka2e.home.att.net/gen

Debbie Raff just informed me that part of the URL for the Galizien
German Descendants web site on FEEFHS was incorrect.

Please note the correct page: http://feefhs.org/gal/ggd/frg-ggd.html

Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks, Debbie.

Shelley Kellerman Pollero, Coordinator
Gesher Galicia
Severna Park, MD
rkpollero@...

Dear All:

Please allow me to offer my sincerest thanks to all the people who have
contributed so many superb comments to my questions. I have already sent
personal notes of thanks to many of you, however I wanted to publicly thank
everyone who has contributed. Your answers have confirmed many of my
thoughts on the matter and have provided incredible insights.

Regrettably, all the immigrant generations of my family, as well as the
first American generation have all passed on and with them the Galitzianer
Yiddish they spoke and the Galitzianer Hebrew dialect they used in prayer.
Though I can't speak as they spoke, in adopting the Sefardic Liturgy, I can
at least recite the words they recited. This, and the genealogical
research I'm doing allows me to remain connected with those I miss so much
and to introduce my dear bride, Rachel to a family she'll never be able to
meet.

Thank you again and have a very happy Purim.

Mike Sturm
Reply to ka2e@...

Researching: Hauser, Hirschhorn, Horowitz and Sturm
Family Trees at: http://ka2e.home.att.net/gen

Debbie Raff just informed me that part of the URL for the Galizien
German Descendants web site on FEEFHS was incorrect.

Please note the correct page: http://feefhs.org/gal/ggd/frg-ggd.html

Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks, Debbie.

Shelley Kellerman Pollero, Coordinator
Gesher Galicia
Severna Park, MD
rkpollero@...

Dear Moderator,
I urge you not to close threads such as the current one on Hassidic
rebbes. I have already learned so much >from it and find the discussion
not only informative but also fascinating. Often the items on the GG
digest are rather cut and dried and so specific to an individual that
the rest of us have little to get >from it or simply a repetition from
the JG digest. Here now is a theme that is important for so many
people.
Joan Baronberg, Denver, CO
FRIEDMAN, WEISSER, MASTERMAN, GERSTENBLITH
Suchostav, Ukr.

[MODERATOR NOTE: I humbly acceed to public demand. The discussion will remain open.]

Dear Moderator,
I urge you not to close threads such as the current one on Hassidic
rebbes. I have already learned so much >from it and find the discussion
not only informative but also fascinating. Often the items on the GG
digest are rather cut and dried and so specific to an individual that
the rest of us have little to get >from it or simply a repetition from
the JG digest. Here now is a theme that is important for so many
people.
Joan Baronberg, Denver, CO
FRIEDMAN, WEISSER, MASTERMAN, GERSTENBLITH
Suchostav, Ukr.

[MODERATOR NOTE: I humbly acceed to public demand. The discussion will remain open.]

While I have the deepest respect for the moderators of this group I am
always amazed that they want to close the thread of the most interesting
discussions.
respectfully,
David Gurtler
David and Tina Gurtler

Jerusalem, Israel
gurtler@...

[.....snip.....]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Answers concerning the search for Chassidic Rabbis in
Galicia will be accepted. After that, this thread will be closed and
you may continue the discussion privately.]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I simply felt we were straying away >from genealogical
concerns, but have no problem keeping the discussion open for another few
days if that's what the readership would like - B]

While I have the deepest respect for the moderators of this group I am
always amazed that they want to close the thread of the most interesting
discussions.
respectfully,
David Gurtler
David and Tina Gurtler

Jerusalem, Israel
gurtler@...

[.....snip.....]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Answers concerning the search for Chassidic Rabbis in
Galicia will be accepted. After that, this thread will be closed and
you may continue the discussion privately.]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I simply felt we were straying away >from genealogical
concerns, but have no problem keeping the discussion open for another few
days if that's what the readership would like - B]

<< Again, I would be happy to share photos upon request. >>

Gary Platt

I would very much like to see these photos. Can you send them to me as an
attached file? Preferably JPEG or TIFF.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

This is in response to the question of how one would tell if a family
was Chassidic and, if they did, who they followed. This is a tough
one. In a small town, virtually everyone would have been at least
nominally Chassidic just because the social norms would have pushed
everyone in that direction. It is much the same today. Someone in a
small town or village anywhere in the world is more likely to be like
his neighbors because to be different, would be uncomfortable. Business
relationships, social relationships, family relationships all would have
demanded a level of conformity.

Finding out which Rebbe was followed is a bit tricky because you would
have to know which Chassidic communities were in existence in that town
or village. Even more complicated, village residents, seemed to have
davened in the larger communities in the region.....generally the same
places where the government had placed the seat of the administrative
district. Kehilla records are hard to come by. Yizkor books are
available for some regions and towns and that is always a good way to
find out about the religious life of those communities, but, without
that or a similar resource, it may not be possible to reconstruct which
Rebbe or Chassidic community was in a specific area. Sometimes a family
tradition can stem >from involvement with a particular Chassidic
community for those lucky enough to still have an observant family
tradition that was never broken.

Most larger communities in Galicia had multiple Chassidic strains or
communities. This of course, confuses the issue for those wishing to
know something about the family's historical involvement. I have made
this point before but just to reinforce the point, matches for marriages
among the Chassidim were almost always made within the religious
community except, perhaps, when the children or grandchildren of two
Rebbes were matched in order to solidify a religio-political
alliance.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD

<< Again, I would be happy to share photos upon request. >>

Gary Platt

I would very much like to see these photos. Can you send them to me as an
attached file? Preferably JPEG or TIFF.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

This is in response to the question of how one would tell if a family
was Chassidic and, if they did, who they followed. This is a tough
one. In a small town, virtually everyone would have been at least
nominally Chassidic just because the social norms would have pushed
everyone in that direction. It is much the same today. Someone in a
small town or village anywhere in the world is more likely to be like
his neighbors because to be different, would be uncomfortable. Business
relationships, social relationships, family relationships all would have
demanded a level of conformity.

Finding out which Rebbe was followed is a bit tricky because you would
have to know which Chassidic communities were in existence in that town
or village. Even more complicated, village residents, seemed to have
davened in the larger communities in the region.....generally the same
places where the government had placed the seat of the administrative
district. Kehilla records are hard to come by. Yizkor books are
available for some regions and towns and that is always a good way to
find out about the religious life of those communities, but, without
that or a similar resource, it may not be possible to reconstruct which
Rebbe or Chassidic community was in a specific area. Sometimes a family
tradition can stem >from involvement with a particular Chassidic
community for those lucky enough to still have an observant family
tradition that was never broken.

Most larger communities in Galicia had multiple Chassidic strains or
communities. This of course, confuses the issue for those wishing to
know something about the family's historical involvement. I have made
this point before but just to reinforce the point, matches for marriages
among the Chassidim were almost always made within the religious
community except, perhaps, when the children or grandchildren of two
Rebbes were matched in order to solidify a religio-political
alliance.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD