I am trying to trace my father's family in Warszawa. They owned
farmland with several houses in what were the outskirts of Warszawa
pre-WWII. I have found out that it is now part of the city of
Warszawa. The area was called Ochota, the family name was Grabski
(spelling changed to Grabsky in the US). Would I be able to find out
any information about the family in the land records, and if so would it
tell me who owns the property now. I do not think the Grabskis still
own it but the records might tell me how long they had the land. I have
an autobiography written by a grand uncle with street names and house
addresses of where the family lived >from the time he was three years of
age until the family emigrated to the US. His parents owned a pottry
shop for a while. I believe it was his mother's parents who owned the
farm - his father took his mother's surname when he lived with the
family after becoming an orphan.
Anita Drexler
Miami, Florida
GRABSKI
BERNSTEIN
MODEL

I am researching the Chidner (Tschidner) and Bezboki families of Warsaw and
Rakinoye, Poland. Any information which might be available would be very
much appreciated.

Nadine Kaufman
CoolGram13@...

I am trying to trace my father's family in Warszawa. They owned
farmland with several houses in what were the outskirts of Warszawa
pre-WWII. I have found out that it is now part of the city of
Warszawa. The area was called Ochota, the family name was Grabski
(spelling changed to Grabsky in the US). Would I be able to find out
any information about the family in the land records, and if so would it
tell me who owns the property now. I do not think the Grabskis still
own it but the records might tell me how long they had the land. I have
an autobiography written by a grand uncle with street names and house
addresses of where the family lived >from the time he was three years of
age until the family emigrated to the US. His parents owned a pottry
shop for a while. I believe it was his mother's parents who owned the
farm - his father took his mother's surname when he lived with the
family after becoming an orphan.
Anita Drexler
Miami, Florida
GRABSKI
BERNSTEIN
MODEL

I am researching the Chidner (Tschidner) and Bezboki families of Warsaw and
Rakinoye, Poland. Any information which might be available would be very
much appreciated.

Nadine Kaufman
CoolGram13@...

On Sun, 09 July 2000, "Daniel Wagner" wrote:

Dear Hadassah:

Your answer regarding Franciszkanska Street is indeed very interesting. I
was wondering if you could share with us what the "Property Archives" is,
where it is, how to contact and interact with them etc.
Thank you for any help about this.
Daniel Wagner

Originally, I sent a friend into the Property Archives (which I believe is called the Hipoteka) and I gave him one of the lot numbers that I was looking for and asked him to check the file. He reported back that the file for that property was over 500 pages thick and consisted of two volumes. He did not go thru the files much, as there were many items in Russian legalize which he claimed gave him goose bumps trying to figure out. Then on my recent visit to Warszawa, I went to check it out myself. The file contained family wills and vital records providing proof of relationship. There were also several legal judgement documents because portions of the property were sold off (to an in-law) and the buyer allegedly owed money to a kehilla in a town in Lublin Gubernia. I was not able to get copies of any of the documents but instead wrote notes. I was told that you are not allowed.

I was not able to document everything that I needed and I have other lots numbers >from other sides of my family. I am investigating hiring someone to go in and do the extracts for these other lots. I will let you know my progress as it comes along.

Hadassah Lipsius
Kew Gardens Hills, Ny

On Sun, 09 July 2000, "Daniel Wagner" wrote:

Dear Hadassah:

Your answer regarding Franciszkanska Street is indeed very interesting. I
was wondering if you could share with us what the "Property Archives" is,
where it is, how to contact and interact with them etc.
Thank you for any help about this.
Daniel Wagner

Originally, I sent a friend into the Property Archives (which I believe is called the Hipoteka) and I gave him one of the lot numbers that I was looking for and asked him to check the file. He reported back that the file for that property was over 500 pages thick and consisted of two volumes. He did not go thru the files much, as there were many items in Russian legalize which he claimed gave him goose bumps trying to figure out. Then on my recent visit to Warszawa, I went to check it out myself. The file contained family wills and vital records providing proof of relationship. There were also several legal judgement documents because portions of the property were sold off (to an in-law) and the buyer allegedly owed money to a kehilla in a town in Lublin Gubernia. I was not able to get copies of any of the documents but instead wrote notes. I was told that you are not allowed.

I was not able to document everything that I needed and I have other lots numbers >from other sides of my family. I am investigating hiring someone to go in and do the extracts for these other lots. I will let you know my progress as it comes along.

Hadassah Lipsius
Kew Gardens Hills, Ny

Dear Dr. Orenstein,

I wish I had more useful info. w/ which to provide you, but it sounds like
you are on the right track. I would certainly take any of the advice
offered to you by Hadassah Lipsius, as she is totally involved with the
Warsaw list serve group. My own family--both sides of my grandmother's and
great-aunt's family--owned lucrative businesses prior to the War (although
times got bad in the early 30's/late 20's--as was the case throughout the
world), and quite frankly, I don't have the necessary details, phone
listings, etc. for either of these businesses, so I definitely empathize w/
you. The only other thing besides the phones directories might be to
contact the Jewish Institute in Warsaw (funded, I believe, by the Ron Lauder
Foundation). Perhaps they may be of help.

As for the info. that I have uncovered, it is perhaps most meaninful to
me--not necessarily of any use to other people. But one thing that I found
most interesting is that my maternal great great grandparents--surname
Pinkel--lived in the very same building complex as did Isaac Bashevis
Singer, at Krochmalna 12. At this same address were also study houses for
various Chasidic groups: Radzyminer, Minsker, and perhaps the Alexander
Chasidim. In any event, my great grandfather (surname Pszenica) became an
adherent of the Radzyminer Rebbe. Singer vividly describes this locale in
his autobiographical work, "In My Father's Court." I highly recommend it if
you are trying to get a sense of pre-WWII Warsaw.

Otherwise, there is not a great deal to tell, right now. I hope to visit
Warsaw--especially the Jewish Cemetery--sometime in the near future. That
may be the only way, ultimately, to uncover some of these missing pieces.

Best wishes,
Rivka

Dear Dr. Orenstein,

I wish I had more useful info. w/ which to provide you, but it sounds like
you are on the right track. I would certainly take any of the advice
offered to you by Hadassah Lipsius, as she is totally involved with the
Warsaw list serve group. My own family--both sides of my grandmother's and
great-aunt's family--owned lucrative businesses prior to the War (although
times got bad in the early 30's/late 20's--as was the case throughout the
world), and quite frankly, I don't have the necessary details, phone
listings, etc. for either of these businesses, so I definitely empathize w/
you. The only other thing besides the phones directories might be to
contact the Jewish Institute in Warsaw (funded, I believe, by the Ron Lauder
Foundation). Perhaps they may be of help.

As for the info. that I have uncovered, it is perhaps most meaninful to
me--not necessarily of any use to other people. But one thing that I found
most interesting is that my maternal great great grandparents--surname
Pinkel--lived in the very same building complex as did Isaac Bashevis
Singer, at Krochmalna 12. At this same address were also study houses for
various Chasidic groups: Radzyminer, Minsker, and perhaps the Alexander
Chasidim. In any event, my great grandfather (surname Pszenica) became an
adherent of the Radzyminer Rebbe. Singer vividly describes this locale in
his autobiographical work, "In My Father's Court." I highly recommend it if
you are trying to get a sense of pre-WWII Warsaw.

Otherwise, there is not a great deal to tell, right now. I hope to visit
Warsaw--especially the Jewish Cemetery--sometime in the near future. That
may be the only way, ultimately, to uncover some of these missing pieces.

Best wishes,
Rivka

I will start with a lateral question:
How do you write music notes in hebrew: left to right ?

Looking for MOSES -> Odessa - late 1800's

H.Moses
Ottawa,Canada
e-mail to nhmoses@...


MODERATOR NOTE: Please send responses to the music question privately.

I am hoping that someone can tell me if the Alabama Society for the
Prevention of cruelty to Animals is still located in Birmingham, AL. In
1888, it was located at 216 20th in Birmingham and an ancestor, Nathan
Platshek, was the Secretary and Treasurer of this organization then. Would
appreciate any information including a present address if possible. Please
contact privately at "byrnea@...>. Thanks in advance.

Ann Guthman Byrne
Colorado
byrnea@...

This may have nothing to do with this list but I am at a brick wall trying
to do my family Genealogy so I am trying to answer a question I have all
ways had. What kind of clothes did my ancestors wear? So I am trying to do
a Genealogy of clothes of the Jews through the ages. I am looking for
pictures or stories of different types of dress for Jews if anyone has an
info or matter like that connect me privately at moshe@... . So
that I may be able to get a copy of this documents. Thank you for your help.
Moshe Schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KIRSCHNER, LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER,
SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

I will start with a lateral question:
How do you write music notes in hebrew: left to right ?

Looking for MOSES -> Odessa - late 1800's

H.Moses
Ottawa,Canada
e-mail to nhmoses@...


MODERATOR NOTE: Please send responses to the music question privately.

I am hoping that someone can tell me if the Alabama Society for the
Prevention of cruelty to Animals is still located in Birmingham, AL. In
1888, it was located at 216 20th in Birmingham and an ancestor, Nathan
Platshek, was the Secretary and Treasurer of this organization then. Would
appreciate any information including a present address if possible. Please
contact privately at "byrnea@...>. Thanks in advance.

Ann Guthman Byrne
Colorado
byrnea@...

This may have nothing to do with this list but I am at a brick wall trying
to do my family Genealogy so I am trying to answer a question I have all
ways had. What kind of clothes did my ancestors wear? So I am trying to do
a Genealogy of clothes of the Jews through the ages. I am looking for
pictures or stories of different types of dress for Jews if anyone has an
info or matter like that connect me privately at moshe@... . So
that I may be able to get a copy of this documents. Thank you for your help.
Moshe Schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KIRSCHNER, LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER,
SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

"Mark A. Shilling" wrote:

...I keep coming across a given name in old Polish ...records. It is
difficult to make out because of the handwriting...appears to be Teyk,
or perhaps Ieyk.

I suspect the name is Icek which is the Polish version of Yitzchak.

David Colman
Toronto, Canada

"Mark A. Shilling" wrote:

...I keep coming across a given name in old Polish ...records. It is
difficult to make out because of the handwriting...appears to be Teyk,
or perhaps Ieyk.

I suspect the name is Icek which is the Polish version of Yitzchak.

David Colman
Toronto, Canada

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Is there anybody who has any experience with getting certificates/documents

from the State Archive in Wroclaw? I have written several times to a Dr.

Pater but had no answer. Am I right in thinking that responses >from Poland
tend to be very slow?
It must be unsettling for Poles to get so many inquiries (hardly ever, I
think in their mother tongue) >from people who had ancestors in Poland and
who say to them for example 'This is where my grandfather used to live,
etc. and who keep using German names. I also fear that inquiries >from Jews
or on behalf of Jews may not always be welcome.
I have made contact with the "Bundesvereinigung der Breslauer" in Germany
and the "Heimatbund Reichenbach", also in Germany. While they were
initially very helpful, and they passed my questions on to the "Deutsche
Freundschaftskreis" in Wroclaw, the office there sent me a very short reply
(after a very lond time) saying that they are unable to help and they have
now stopped responding.
Juergen Schwiening
---
Schwiening Language School
Market Boswort, Nuneaton, CV13 0LG
FAX: +44 (0)1455 292073 Tel: +44 (0)1455 292035

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Is there anybody who has any experience with getting certificates/documents

from the State Archive in Wroclaw? I have written several times to a Dr.

Pater but had no answer. Am I right in thinking that responses >from Poland
tend to be very slow?
It must be unsettling for Poles to get so many inquiries (hardly ever, I
think in their mother tongue) >from people who had ancestors in Poland and
who say to them for example 'This is where my grandfather used to live,
etc. and who keep using German names. I also fear that inquiries >from Jews
or on behalf of Jews may not always be welcome.
I have made contact with the "Bundesvereinigung der Breslauer" in Germany
and the "Heimatbund Reichenbach", also in Germany. While they were
initially very helpful, and they passed my questions on to the "Deutsche
Freundschaftskreis" in Wroclaw, the office there sent me a very short reply
(after a very lond time) saying that they are unable to help and they have
now stopped responding.
Juergen Schwiening
---
Schwiening Language School
Market Boswort, Nuneaton, CV13 0LG
FAX: +44 (0)1455 292073 Tel: +44 (0)1455 292035

Dear Hadassah,

Thanks for responding. I wonder if the property archives which you mention
has a researcher who might be able to find information about my uncle's
restaurant. If so, how might I go about contacting him or her? The only
information I have is >from the 1929 Polish Business Directory which merely
lists my uncle as the reigistered owner.
Howard


Hadassah Lipsius wrote:

Both, Nicole Berline (our coordinator) and I have
ancestors that lived on Franciszkanska street.

During my recent visit to Warszawa, I visited the property archives and
viewed the file for one of the properties that my family owned on
Franciszkanska Street. The file had over 30 vital record documents include
my elusive ggm's birth record. The records included several 20th Century
documents. The file also contained some information on tenants.

You may also want to check the 1930's telephone books for Warszawa.
Several libraries have copies including the NYPL. It may not give you
much information and I am sure the number is no longer valid <grin> but it
brings your family more to life.

--
Howard B. Orenstein, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
Western Maryland College
2 College Hill
Westminster, MD 21157
horenstn@...
410.857.2521
410.857.2729 (FAX)
http://www.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Academics/Psychology/hik.html

Dear Hadassah,

Thanks for responding. I wonder if the property archives which you mention
has a researcher who might be able to find information about my uncle's
restaurant. If so, how might I go about contacting him or her? The only
information I have is >from the 1929 Polish Business Directory which merely
lists my uncle as the reigistered owner.
Howard


Hadassah Lipsius wrote:

Both, Nicole Berline (our coordinator) and I have
ancestors that lived on Franciszkanska street.

During my recent visit to Warszawa, I visited the property archives and
viewed the file for one of the properties that my family owned on
Franciszkanska Street. The file had over 30 vital record documents include
my elusive ggm's birth record. The records included several 20th Century
documents. The file also contained some information on tenants.

You may also want to check the 1930's telephone books for Warszawa.
Several libraries have copies including the NYPL. It may not give you
much information and I am sure the number is no longer valid <grin> but it
brings your family more to life.

--
Howard B. Orenstein, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
Western Maryland College
2 College Hill
Westminster, MD 21157
horenstn@...
410.857.2521
410.857.2729 (FAX)
http://www.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Academics/Psychology/hik.html