Date   

Re: Genetics and "Relatedness" #general

Wachtel@...
 

In a message dated 00-05-06 00:55:14 EDT, Daniel Kazez
<dkazez@...> wrote:

<< Among my relatives, this question often arises: "Who's more
closely related to whom?" >>

I tried to answer this question in an article published in the Spring 1995
Avotaynu. I'll summarize some of my conclusions here, omitting the analysis
that leads up to them. These results are straightforward and surely must be
well known in genetics, but I didn't know where to find them, so I derived
them for myself.

The simplest way to express relatedness is in terms of the genetic distance D
between two relatives. D is a positive integer; the smaller it is, the closer
the relationship. The fraction of genetic material these relatives share is R
= 1/2**D, where ** means exponentiation. R is usually a small fraction.

For a relative in the direct line of ascent or descent, the genetic distance
is just the number of generations. For you and your great-grandmother, for
instance, D = 3 and R = 1/8.

In general, for two relatives descended >from a common ancestral couple, D is
the total length of both branches, tracing up one branch to the common
ancestor, then back down the other branch, and subtracting 1 to account for
the two parallel paths through male and female progenitors. Take you and your
uncle, for example: it's two steps up to your grandparents and one back down
to the uncle. Then D = 2 + 1 - 1 = 2, R = 1/4.

If you don't want to count steps on a tree, here's a rule of thumb to find D
quickly:

1. Double the "cousinship." Brothers and sisters can be considered "zeroth
cousins."

2. Add the removal. Besides cousin removal, "aunt," "uncle," "nephew,"
"niece," "great," and "grand" all indicate one degree of removal. An aunt or
uncle (or nephew or niece) is a "zeroth cousin once removed," a great-aunt,
great-uncle, grandnephew, or grandniece is a "zeroth cousin twice removed,"
and so on.

3. Add 1.

An uncle is a zeroth cousin once removed, so D = (2 x 0) + 1 + 1 = 2, the
same result as before.

Dan also asked:

<< In particular, I am curious about
two situations:

1. Two brothers marry two sisters, and each couple has
children. The children of one couple are, of course,
the first cousins of the children of the other couple.
Are the children more or less (or equally) "related"
(genetically, that is) to their siblings as they are
to their first cousins?

2. Am I "equally related" to my first cousin as I am to
my uncle (my mother's brother)? >>

The second question is easier to answer. Your genetic distance >from your
first cousin is D = (2 x 1) + 0 + 1 = 3 (double the cousinship, add the
removal, add 1). So you're more closely related to your uncle (D = 2). This
makes sense, because half the genetic material that you share with your uncle
is lost in the descent to his child, your first cousin.

Of course, corrections have to be made for special cases. The most common is
descent >from only a single common ancestor through half-siblings. This
situation reduces the relatedness by half and increases D by 1.

Dan's first question is another special case. First cousins would normally be
separated by D = 3, R = 1/8. In this example, though, they're related through
two sets of common grandparents, rather than one. They share 1/8 of their
genetic material through one set of grandparents, and another 1/8 through the
other, for a total of R = 1/4 or D = 2.

Sibling have D = 1 (up one step, down one step, subtract 1; or "zeroth
cousins zero times removed," (2 x 0) + 0 + 1 = 1). So these double cousins
are more closely related to each other than ordinary first cousins, but less
closely than siblings (they don't have the same parents, after all, only
related parents). Their degree of relationship is the same, in fact, as
uncles and aunts to nieces and nephews, grandparents to grandchildren, or
half-siblings to each other (left as an exercise for the reader).

Alan Wachtel
Palo Alto, California
< Wachtel@... >

MODERATOR NOTE: This thread is now closed.
Any further comments, please send privately.


JewishGen appoints new Business Director #general

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

For Immediate Release
Contact: Susan E. King (susan.king@...)
Glen Straus (gstrauss@...)
Date: May 8, 2000

Due to the tremendous growth JewishGen is experiencing and recognizing
the need to focus on Business and Corporate Development, it is with
great pleasure that JewishGen can announce today the appointment of
Mr. Glen Strauss as our Director of Business and Corporate Development.
This newly formed position will report directly to the President of
JewishGen with input >from the Development Sub-Committee of JewishGen's
Executive Committee.

Glen's role will be to strengthen and build JewishGen's business
relationships within the Jewish genealogical community and to develop
ongoing relationships within the world's corporate community.

Born in Illinois in 1954, Glen graduated >from the University of
Illinois with a B.S. degree in music education in 1976. He graduated
with a J.D. degree >from the University of Southern California Law
Center, and has been admitted to practice law in the State of
California. He joined Smith Barney as a financial consultant in 1983,
and is now a Senior Vice President of Investments/Financial Consultant
and a Director of the Consulting Group at Smith Barney. He has served
on the Directors Council at Smith Barney for nearly fifteen years, and
has been a member of the Directors Advisory Group.

As co-chairman of the Yitzhak Rabin Peace Memorial Fund, he recently
succeeded in having a large bronze bust of the late Prime Minister
installed at the entrance to the municipality building in Tel Aviv.

For the last two years, he has been very actively pursuing his
genealogy hobby and, through the help of JewishGen, located over 3000
descendants of his maternal great-great grandfather. Glen has
organized two family reunions - one in July, 1998 in Chicago attended
by over 260 relatives, and one last October, in Tel Aviv, with over
225 attendees. His family website at http://www.eisenstein.nu houses
over 2000 family photos. Glen has also successfully arranged for the
translation of the Yizkor book >from Drogichin, the shtetl in Belarus
from which both his maternal grandparents emigrated.
Over the next few months, Glen will be contacting the coordinators of
all those groups we currently serve either by email or telephone. He
will be building an overall plan of expanding awareness of JewishGen
and our partners within the corporate world.

We look forward to the opportunity to broaden the awareness of
JewishGen in the worldwide Jewish community and to strengthen the
relationships with our partners and hosted organizations as we strive
towards our mission of preserving our history for future generations.

Susan E. King
President
JewishGen, Inc.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Genetics and "Relatedness" #general

Wachtel@...
 

In a message dated 00-05-06 00:55:14 EDT, Daniel Kazez
<dkazez@...> wrote:

<< Among my relatives, this question often arises: "Who's more
closely related to whom?" >>

I tried to answer this question in an article published in the Spring 1995
Avotaynu. I'll summarize some of my conclusions here, omitting the analysis
that leads up to them. These results are straightforward and surely must be
well known in genetics, but I didn't know where to find them, so I derived
them for myself.

The simplest way to express relatedness is in terms of the genetic distance D
between two relatives. D is a positive integer; the smaller it is, the closer
the relationship. The fraction of genetic material these relatives share is R
= 1/2**D, where ** means exponentiation. R is usually a small fraction.

For a relative in the direct line of ascent or descent, the genetic distance
is just the number of generations. For you and your great-grandmother, for
instance, D = 3 and R = 1/8.

In general, for two relatives descended >from a common ancestral couple, D is
the total length of both branches, tracing up one branch to the common
ancestor, then back down the other branch, and subtracting 1 to account for
the two parallel paths through male and female progenitors. Take you and your
uncle, for example: it's two steps up to your grandparents and one back down
to the uncle. Then D = 2 + 1 - 1 = 2, R = 1/4.

If you don't want to count steps on a tree, here's a rule of thumb to find D
quickly:

1. Double the "cousinship." Brothers and sisters can be considered "zeroth
cousins."

2. Add the removal. Besides cousin removal, "aunt," "uncle," "nephew,"
"niece," "great," and "grand" all indicate one degree of removal. An aunt or
uncle (or nephew or niece) is a "zeroth cousin once removed," a great-aunt,
great-uncle, grandnephew, or grandniece is a "zeroth cousin twice removed,"
and so on.

3. Add 1.

An uncle is a zeroth cousin once removed, so D = (2 x 0) + 1 + 1 = 2, the
same result as before.

Dan also asked:

<< In particular, I am curious about
two situations:

1. Two brothers marry two sisters, and each couple has
children. The children of one couple are, of course,
the first cousins of the children of the other couple.
Are the children more or less (or equally) "related"
(genetically, that is) to their siblings as they are
to their first cousins?

2. Am I "equally related" to my first cousin as I am to
my uncle (my mother's brother)? >>

The second question is easier to answer. Your genetic distance >from your
first cousin is D = (2 x 1) + 0 + 1 = 3 (double the cousinship, add the
removal, add 1). So you're more closely related to your uncle (D = 2). This
makes sense, because half the genetic material that you share with your uncle
is lost in the descent to his child, your first cousin.

Of course, corrections have to be made for special cases. The most common is
descent >from only a single common ancestor through half-siblings. This
situation reduces the relatedness by half and increases D by 1.

Dan's first question is another special case. First cousins would normally be
separated by D = 3, R = 1/8. In this example, though, they're related through
two sets of common grandparents, rather than one. They share 1/8 of their
genetic material through one set of grandparents, and another 1/8 through the
other, for a total of R = 1/4 or D = 2.

Sibling have D = 1 (up one step, down one step, subtract 1; or "zeroth
cousins zero times removed," (2 x 0) + 0 + 1 = 1). So these double cousins
are more closely related to each other than ordinary first cousins, but less
closely than siblings (they don't have the same parents, after all, only
related parents). Their degree of relationship is the same, in fact, as
uncles and aunts to nieces and nephews, grandparents to grandchildren, or
half-siblings to each other (left as an exercise for the reader).

Alan Wachtel
Palo Alto, California
< Wachtel@... >

MODERATOR NOTE: This thread is now closed.
Any further comments, please send privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JewishGen appoints new Business Director #general

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

For Immediate Release
Contact: Susan E. King (susan.king@...)
Glen Straus (gstrauss@...)
Date: May 8, 2000

Due to the tremendous growth JewishGen is experiencing and recognizing
the need to focus on Business and Corporate Development, it is with
great pleasure that JewishGen can announce today the appointment of
Mr. Glen Strauss as our Director of Business and Corporate Development.
This newly formed position will report directly to the President of
JewishGen with input >from the Development Sub-Committee of JewishGen's
Executive Committee.

Glen's role will be to strengthen and build JewishGen's business
relationships within the Jewish genealogical community and to develop
ongoing relationships within the world's corporate community.

Born in Illinois in 1954, Glen graduated >from the University of
Illinois with a B.S. degree in music education in 1976. He graduated
with a J.D. degree >from the University of Southern California Law
Center, and has been admitted to practice law in the State of
California. He joined Smith Barney as a financial consultant in 1983,
and is now a Senior Vice President of Investments/Financial Consultant
and a Director of the Consulting Group at Smith Barney. He has served
on the Directors Council at Smith Barney for nearly fifteen years, and
has been a member of the Directors Advisory Group.

As co-chairman of the Yitzhak Rabin Peace Memorial Fund, he recently
succeeded in having a large bronze bust of the late Prime Minister
installed at the entrance to the municipality building in Tel Aviv.

For the last two years, he has been very actively pursuing his
genealogy hobby and, through the help of JewishGen, located over 3000
descendants of his maternal great-great grandfather. Glen has
organized two family reunions - one in July, 1998 in Chicago attended
by over 260 relatives, and one last October, in Tel Aviv, with over
225 attendees. His family website at http://www.eisenstein.nu houses
over 2000 family photos. Glen has also successfully arranged for the
translation of the Yizkor book >from Drogichin, the shtetl in Belarus
from which both his maternal grandparents emigrated.
Over the next few months, Glen will be contacting the coordinators of
all those groups we currently serve either by email or telephone. He
will be building an overall plan of expanding awareness of JewishGen
and our partners within the corporate world.

We look forward to the opportunity to broaden the awareness of
JewishGen in the worldwide Jewish community and to strengthen the
relationships with our partners and hosted organizations as we strive
towards our mission of preserving our history for future generations.

Susan E. King
President
JewishGen, Inc.


Re: Genetics and "Relatedness" #general

Asparagirl <asparagirl@...>
 

Daniel Kazez wrote:

1. Two brothers marry two sisters, and each couple has
children. The children of one couple are, of course,
the first cousins of the children of the other couple.
Are the children more or less (or equally) "related"
(genetically, that is) to their siblings as they are
to their first cousins?
Well, I'll try to remember what I can >from the genetics sections of my
AP Biology class a few years back and >from my psych. classes (we looked
at genetic studies of schizophrenia, etc.) here at college. To simplify
things, let's assume that there are two sisters, Ada and Brenna, and two
brothers, Alec and Brent. Assume that Ada and Alec marry each other and
that Brenna and Brent marry each other.

Now, all children receive half their DNA >from their mother and half from
their father (leaving out the issues of X and Y chromosomes, mutations,
and mitochondrial DNA, which is only passed >from mother to child).
Which specific genes are expressed or dominant in a child may be
different each time; for example, I have brown eyes, but my sister has
blue eyes. But, generally, all (full) siblings share, on average, 25%
of their genes with each other, although it can be (technically) as high
as 50% or (technically) as low as 0%. I could, hypothetically, get the
genes >from my father that my sister *didn't* get. We could,
hypothetically, both get the *same* combination of genes >from each
parent and end up as "identical twins" (same DNA), born several years
apart. But obviously, that's really, really unlikely, and on average,
two siblings will only share 25% of the same DNA.

So back to Ada and Alec, and Brenna and Brent. Ada and Alec's kids
will, on average, still be more related to one another than to their
first cousins, Brenna and Brent's kids. The two sets of cousins *may*
be more related to one another than to other sets of cousins in the
family. But when you're talking about statistically small samples (i.e.
two kids, or so), it would be hard to tell. Maybe a statistician in the
group would like to take a crack at it?

One note, though: let's say you have a "Patty Duke" type of situation.
For those of you not familiar with "The Patty Duke Show", it was a
1950's American TV show where a set of *identical* twin brothers married
a set of *identical* twin sisters, each having one daughter, both
roughly the same age. In that case, the two cousins *would* be as
related to each other as they would be to any siblings they might have.
They'd also share the same (very, very, very unlikely!) possibility of
receiving the same combination of genes >from their parents as their
siblings might have, therefore being genetic doubles. But carrying it
out to the "identical cousins" extreme probably only happens in
TV-land. :-)

2. Am I "equally related" to my first cousin as I am to
my uncle (my mother's brother)?
No, you're (slightly) more related to your uncle, although you're not
very closely related to either. You're related to all of the same
ancestors as your uncle (i.e. your grandparents, etc.), although you
share, on average, 25% of your genes with each grandparent, and your
uncle would share, on average, 50% of his genes with each of them, since
they'd be his parents. But your cousin's DNA would be further diluted
by 50% with your aunt's family's DNA. So you're technically more
related to your uncle, even though he's a generation back >from you.

(Once again, if any statistician or geneticist wants to weigh in here
and correct me or add anything, please jump in and do so! :-) )

- Brooke Schreier
Philadelphia, PA
asparagirl at dca dot net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Genetics and "Relatedness" #general

Asparagirl <asparagirl@...>
 

Daniel Kazez wrote:

1. Two brothers marry two sisters, and each couple has
children. The children of one couple are, of course,
the first cousins of the children of the other couple.
Are the children more or less (or equally) "related"
(genetically, that is) to their siblings as they are
to their first cousins?
Well, I'll try to remember what I can >from the genetics sections of my
AP Biology class a few years back and >from my psych. classes (we looked
at genetic studies of schizophrenia, etc.) here at college. To simplify
things, let's assume that there are two sisters, Ada and Brenna, and two
brothers, Alec and Brent. Assume that Ada and Alec marry each other and
that Brenna and Brent marry each other.

Now, all children receive half their DNA >from their mother and half from
their father (leaving out the issues of X and Y chromosomes, mutations,
and mitochondrial DNA, which is only passed >from mother to child).
Which specific genes are expressed or dominant in a child may be
different each time; for example, I have brown eyes, but my sister has
blue eyes. But, generally, all (full) siblings share, on average, 25%
of their genes with each other, although it can be (technically) as high
as 50% or (technically) as low as 0%. I could, hypothetically, get the
genes >from my father that my sister *didn't* get. We could,
hypothetically, both get the *same* combination of genes >from each
parent and end up as "identical twins" (same DNA), born several years
apart. But obviously, that's really, really unlikely, and on average,
two siblings will only share 25% of the same DNA.

So back to Ada and Alec, and Brenna and Brent. Ada and Alec's kids
will, on average, still be more related to one another than to their
first cousins, Brenna and Brent's kids. The two sets of cousins *may*
be more related to one another than to other sets of cousins in the
family. But when you're talking about statistically small samples (i.e.
two kids, or so), it would be hard to tell. Maybe a statistician in the
group would like to take a crack at it?

One note, though: let's say you have a "Patty Duke" type of situation.
For those of you not familiar with "The Patty Duke Show", it was a
1950's American TV show where a set of *identical* twin brothers married
a set of *identical* twin sisters, each having one daughter, both
roughly the same age. In that case, the two cousins *would* be as
related to each other as they would be to any siblings they might have.
They'd also share the same (very, very, very unlikely!) possibility of
receiving the same combination of genes >from their parents as their
siblings might have, therefore being genetic doubles. But carrying it
out to the "identical cousins" extreme probably only happens in
TV-land. :-)

2. Am I "equally related" to my first cousin as I am to
my uncle (my mother's brother)?
No, you're (slightly) more related to your uncle, although you're not
very closely related to either. You're related to all of the same
ancestors as your uncle (i.e. your grandparents, etc.), although you
share, on average, 25% of your genes with each grandparent, and your
uncle would share, on average, 50% of his genes with each of them, since
they'd be his parents. But your cousin's DNA would be further diluted
by 50% with your aunt's family's DNA. So you're technically more
related to your uncle, even though he's a generation back >from you.

(Once again, if any statistician or geneticist wants to weigh in here
and correct me or add anything, please jump in and do so! :-) )

- Brooke Schreier
Philadelphia, PA
asparagirl at dca dot net


L. David OLESKY #general

DBH12345@...
 

I am trying to reach, L. David OLESKY, who recently joined the Raseiniai
District Research Group. The email address I have for you keeps bouncing,
and I would very much like to send you the nearly 100 files that the
Research Group has acquired and translated, covering more than a century.

Please contact me privately.

David Hoffman
Coordinator, Raseiniai District Research Group
DBH12345@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen L. David OLESKY #general

DBH12345@...
 

I am trying to reach, L. David OLESKY, who recently joined the Raseiniai
District Research Group. The email address I have for you keeps bouncing,
and I would very much like to send you the nearly 100 files that the
Research Group has acquired and translated, covering more than a century.

Please contact me privately.

David Hoffman
Coordinator, Raseiniai District Research Group
DBH12345@...


passport translation #general

Martin Tulkoff <mtulkoff@...>
 

I have the Russian passport issued to my husband's grandmother when she
came to the United States in 1913. She was traveling with two sons, one
of them my husband's father. My husband and I can figure out the pages
with the names on them, but wonder if someone is willing to translate the
one page with a paragraph of Russian writing on it.

We also have a passport photo >from his mother's emigration and the back
of the photo has Russian writing on it also. We would be happy to pay for
the translations.
Sylvia and Marty Tulkoff


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen passport translation #general

Martin Tulkoff <mtulkoff@...>
 

I have the Russian passport issued to my husband's grandmother when she
came to the United States in 1913. She was traveling with two sons, one
of them my husband's father. My husband and I can figure out the pages
with the names on them, but wonder if someone is willing to translate the
one page with a paragraph of Russian writing on it.

We also have a passport photo >from his mother's emigration and the back
of the photo has Russian writing on it also. We would be happy to pay for
the translations.
Sylvia and Marty Tulkoff


The 'wrong' Harold Schwartz #general

TomHennie <tomhennie@...>
 

Is anyone looking for information about Harold SCHWARTZ who was born in
1924 in Sharon, Wisconsin? His parents were Benjamin O. SCHWARTZ and
Marion KNILANS. If so I'll be happy to mail you a copy of his SS5.
The Harold SCHWARTZ who I am researching was born in Chicago probably in
the early 1920s to Bennie SCHWARTZ (1896-1976) and Jennie SHANOCK. Harold
was placed in foster care after his mother died in 1930 .Does anyone know
of Harold or his descendants?
I am also searching for information about Harold's uncle Louis SCHWARTZ
(1902-1977), husband of Fay, and his descendants. I think that Louis and
Fay had a son who became a doctor in Chicago and a daughter.
Thanks for your help,

Hennie Moldauer Greenland
Scottsdale, AZ

Researching:
SCHER, GLASER, KRIEGER, LOPATO, COOPER, ALSCHWANGER, YANKELOWICH
from Siauliai, Lithuania
MOLDAUER >from Stryjj, Ukraine and GINSBURG >from Lesko, Poland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The 'wrong' Harold Schwartz #general

TomHennie <tomhennie@...>
 

Is anyone looking for information about Harold SCHWARTZ who was born in
1924 in Sharon, Wisconsin? His parents were Benjamin O. SCHWARTZ and
Marion KNILANS. If so I'll be happy to mail you a copy of his SS5.
The Harold SCHWARTZ who I am researching was born in Chicago probably in
the early 1920s to Bennie SCHWARTZ (1896-1976) and Jennie SHANOCK. Harold
was placed in foster care after his mother died in 1930 .Does anyone know
of Harold or his descendants?
I am also searching for information about Harold's uncle Louis SCHWARTZ
(1902-1977), husband of Fay, and his descendants. I think that Louis and
Fay had a son who became a doctor in Chicago and a daughter.
Thanks for your help,

Hennie Moldauer Greenland
Scottsdale, AZ

Researching:
SCHER, GLASER, KRIEGER, LOPATO, COOPER, ALSCHWANGER, YANKELOWICH
from Siauliai, Lithuania
MOLDAUER >from Stryjj, Ukraine and GINSBURG >from Lesko, Poland


Re: bris #general

JGyori@...
 

The only time a holy day, Shabbat or holiday cannot be broken for a bris
is if the birth was an "unnatural" birth, i.e. a Ceasarian section.
This happened at our synagogue when I lived in California about 16 years
ago.
A member's daughter gave birth on Shabbat by Ceasarian and the bris could
not be until Sunday. I remember it required some discussion and research
before a decision could be made. Maybe just the mohel decided, but I got
the impression that the grandfather ( very observant) and the Rabbi were
in on it too.

Judi Missel
Mesa, Arizona


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: bris #general

JGyori@...
 

The only time a holy day, Shabbat or holiday cannot be broken for a bris
is if the birth was an "unnatural" birth, i.e. a Ceasarian section.
This happened at our synagogue when I lived in California about 16 years
ago.
A member's daughter gave birth on Shabbat by Ceasarian and the bris could
not be until Sunday. I remember it required some discussion and research
before a decision could be made. Maybe just the mohel decided, but I got
the impression that the grandfather ( very observant) and the Rabbi were
in on it too.

Judi Missel
Mesa, Arizona


re gefilte fish #general

Arnie Levine <arnie@...>
 

Sorry just had to carp in. The below listed url has recipes for 41 dishes.

http://www.jewish-food.org/recipes/gefindex.htm


eat to your hearts content

Arnie Levine
arnie@...
Chicago, Illinois
Searching for CZUSIK who changed name to SHERMAN, SCHECTMAN who changed
name to RICH, and LASKOWITZ, who also has used LASKO and LASCOE.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re gefilte fish #general

Arnie Levine <arnie@...>
 

Sorry just had to carp in. The below listed url has recipes for 41 dishes.

http://www.jewish-food.org/recipes/gefindex.htm


eat to your hearts content

Arnie Levine
arnie@...
Chicago, Illinois
Searching for CZUSIK who changed name to SHERMAN, SCHECTMAN who changed
name to RICH, and LASKOWITZ, who also has used LASKO and LASCOE.


Naturalisations #general

Stephen Mednick <smednick@...>
 

Like there is for Births/Deaths/Marriages, is there available an index
of UK Naturalisations that are able to be searched?


Stephen Mednick
Sydney, Australia
smednick@...

Researching:
MEDNICK (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)
SACHS/SACKS (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Naturalisations #general

Stephen Mednick <smednick@...>
 

Like there is for Births/Deaths/Marriages, is there available an index
of UK Naturalisations that are able to be searched?


Stephen Mednick
Sydney, Australia
smednick@...

Researching:
MEDNICK (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)
SACHS/SACKS (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)


Pitchipoi #general

Eve Line Blum <blume@...>
 

Last 28 March, Olivier Lehrer posted a question concerning the origin of
the word "Pitchipoi".

I just read some explanation in a book written by the French writer Annette
Wieviorka.

According to what it's written, it's in an infirmary, around september
1942, that kids invented the word "Pitchipoi" (with a dieresis on the last
"i" to pronounce "oy"). In the children's language, that word meant the
unknown, mysterious and frightening place of deportation.

The author explains that Pitchipoi is one of these imaginary places which
the Yiddish folklore loves. She says that this word comes >from a very
popular nursery rhyme (especially in the schools in Vilne in the thirties).
It was formed with two Polish words : pich (to drink) and poy (to water the
cattle). That's why, in the Drancy camp, Pitchipoi meant the place where
they would send you, where it was better and easier.

Eve Line Blum
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (French JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org


Fw: Searching email for Abraham Goldberg #yizkorbooks

Harriet Brown <hnbrown@...>
 

Searching for Town Kamenetz at JewishGen "The Yizkor Book Database" I found
that Mr. Abraham S. Goldberg 100274.3335@... is prepared to sell
the book "Zichranos (Memories...)" about Kamenetz Litovsk, written by
Yechazkel Kotek and published in Berlin in 1922 in two volumes in Yiddish.

I sent an e-mail to Mr. Goldberg but it was not received (changed
address?).

Somebody can help me to find Mr. Goldberg?

Miguel Kaplansky
mkaplansky@el sitio.net
Mansilla 2431 - 4=BA A
(1121) Buenos Aires
Argentina
Phone 54-11-4-963-7230
=46ax 54-22-4-964-0987

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately to Mr. Kaplansky.