Richard Friedman wrote: ....I came across two possible ancestors. I
would like to know if they are the same person. I could not find a match
using Jewishgen's name list. The first names are Shlioma and Shimel. Any
thoughts would be appreciated.

Well, theoretically they have origins as two different Hebrew male names:
Shlioma is a Yiddish variant of the Hebrew name Schlomo/Solomon and
Schimel is a diminutive of the Hebrew name Shimon/Simon. I write
"theoretically" because, as was often the custom, a Jewish person's
formal religious name and their secular name could be different and (to
add to the confusion) the secular name might change with fashion or
necessity. My approach on those cases is that until I can find supporting
documents, which conclusively link the two names together as one person,
I work with the material but treat it as potentially unreliable.

Martin Davis
London (UK)
Researching: DAWIDOWICZ, WOLKOWICZ, MAYEROW, MOSZKOWICZ (Dzialoszyn,
Poland), ABRAMOWICZ (Debina, Poland), JAKUBOWICZ, KUSTRZYCKI, SLAMOWICZ,
RADOZYNSKI (Widawa and Lask, Poland), DAWIDOWICZ, GOLDRING, ELIASZ,
SKORUPA-HUBERMAN, PASALSKA (Szczercow, Poland), LEIFERMAN/LAFERMAN
(Kamenets-Podolsk - Ukraine), GOLDSCHMIDT, SHISTER (Balti - Moldova).

Richard Friedman wrote: ....I came across two possible ancestors. I
would like to know if they are the same person. I could not find a match
using Jewishgen's name list. The first names are Shlioma and Shimel. Any
thoughts would be appreciated.

Well, theoretically they have origins as two different Hebrew male names:
Shlioma is a Yiddish variant of the Hebrew name Schlomo/Solomon and
Schimel is a diminutive of the Hebrew name Shimon/Simon. I write
"theoretically" because, as was often the custom, a Jewish person's
formal religious name and their secular name could be different and (to
add to the confusion) the secular name might change with fashion or
necessity. My approach on those cases is that until I can find supporting
documents, which conclusively link the two names together as one person,
I work with the material but treat it as potentially unreliable.

Martin Davis
London (UK)
Researching: DAWIDOWICZ, WOLKOWICZ, MAYEROW, MOSZKOWICZ (Dzialoszyn,
Poland), ABRAMOWICZ (Debina, Poland), JAKUBOWICZ, KUSTRZYCKI, SLAMOWICZ,
RADOZYNSKI (Widawa and Lask, Poland), DAWIDOWICZ, GOLDRING, ELIASZ,
SKORUPA-HUBERMAN, PASALSKA (Szczercow, Poland), LEIFERMAN/LAFERMAN
(Kamenets-Podolsk - Ukraine), GOLDSCHMIDT, SHISTER (Balti - Moldova).

My mother would like to learn about someone who lived with her family for s=
everal months in Budapest in early 1944. This woman was a refugee >from ano=
ther country, probably there illegally. Her accent was German/Austrian. Sh=
e said her name was Klari Goldberg. She asked the family not to ask questi=
ons. After a few months, she disappeared.=20

My grandfather was involved with the Zionists in Budapest during that time,=
and may have come across her that way, and offered shelter.

Does anyone know a way to find out about such refugees?

Many thanks.

Diane Jacobs
Austin, Texas

My mother would like to learn about someone who lived with her family for s=
everal months in Budapest in early 1944. This woman was a refugee >from ano=
ther country, probably there illegally. Her accent was German/Austrian. Sh=
e said her name was Klari Goldberg. She asked the family not to ask questi=
ons. After a few months, she disappeared.=20

My grandfather was involved with the Zionists in Budapest during that time,=
and may have come across her that way, and offered shelter.

Does anyone know a way to find out about such refugees?

Many thanks.

Diane Jacobs
Austin, Texas

Richard Friedman <richfriedman@...> asked whether first names
Shlioma and Shimel are the same.

I would say generally not (although what are supposed to be different
names sometimes become convoluted):-
Shlioma - A Yiddish version of the Hebrew name Shlomo - often rendered
in English as Solomon.
Shimel - A Yiddish version of the Hebrew name Shimon - often rendered in
English as Simon.

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching (on maternal ancestry): GEVELBA (became GABLE, RAVEL, GALE),
SINGER (both >from Warsaw, Poland); REINA, REINFELD (>from Netherlands -
Dutch Ashkenazi); MICHAELS (originally MICHAEL), VIEYRA, RODERIGUE and
almost every other Dutch Sephardi family name (English and Dutch Sephardi).

Richard Friedman <richfriedman@...> asked whether first names
Shlioma and Shimel are the same.

I would say generally not (although what are supposed to be different
names sometimes become convoluted):-
Shlioma - A Yiddish version of the Hebrew name Shlomo - often rendered
in English as Solomon.
Shimel - A Yiddish version of the Hebrew name Shimon - often rendered in
English as Simon.

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching (on maternal ancestry): GEVELBA (became GABLE, RAVEL, GALE),
SINGER (both >from Warsaw, Poland); REINA, REINFELD (>from Netherlands -
Dutch Ashkenazi); MICHAELS (originally MICHAEL), VIEYRA, RODERIGUE and
almost every other Dutch Sephardi family name (English and Dutch Sephardi).

Allan offers look-ups in NYC, but I want to clarify to everyone what
is available for NYC without a visit to the Municipal Archives. You
may save yourself and Allan some time.

FamilySearch has a huge number of NYC records available. In some
cases, they have an index online, and the images are browseable, but
they do not have a link between the two.

NYC Naturalizations are available online for most NYC area courts.
The major exception is the Bronx County Court; they have the index
but not the naturalization documents. Most other courts are available
online, >from your home, on FamilySearch. They are all indexed
somewhere online, sometimes on Ancestry, but those indexes give you
the information you need to find the record on FamilySearch. (Yes, NY
Supreme Court is on FamilySearch; the index is on Ancestry.)

NYC Vital Records -- births, marriages, and deaths -- are now
available >from FamilySearch but only >from within the Family History
Library (FHL) or a Family History Center (FHC). Again, the index on
FamilySearch does not link to those browseable images, but they are
easy to find using either the FamilySearch index, or ItalianGen,
and/or Steve Morse's site. Simply search the catalog for the film
number, then browse the film to find the record you need.

According to Allan, FamilySearch has the same births and marriages,
while the Municipal Srchive has a few more years of deaths available.

The marriage licenses are not available >from FamilySearch.
Additionally, stillbirths and some other records with S or D in the
certificate number are not at FamilySearch but I believe are at the
Municipal Archive.

The 1890 Police Census is available >from Ancestry. FamilySearch also
has an index online you can search >from home, and the images are
browseable >from their FHCs.

FamilySearch's browseable images may not always be found >from their
"Records" section. You may need to find the items in the "Catalog",
where you will find a camera icon next to the films. A camera with a
key over it means you must be in an FHC to see the images.

Remember that records >from FamilySearch are free, so if you can get
to an FHC, you do not need to pay for copies of many of the records.
Printing copies will cost money. I've heard that some centers charge
for saving digital copies, but not all and I don't know if that's
true of saving digitized copies or just for making new digital images

from films. (I don't think that saving something already digitized

will cost anything, but I only know the FHL in SLC, where scans are
always free.)

For records that are indexed on Ancestry, the FHC offers free access
to that site as well, as do some public libraries.

If you cannot get to an FHC or the FHL in Salt Lake City, there are
other people who can help you to retrieve the images. It just sounds
like Allan has a lot of work to do, and a backlog of requests, so
some of your requests could probably be found without his help and he
can concentrate on the records that are not otherwise available outside
of NYC.

Banai Lynn Feldstein

From: "A. E. Jordan" <aejordan@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:34:50 -0500

I am going to be resuming lookups in the New York area.

Generally I offer if anyone needs documents >from the New York Municipal
Archives or naturalizations or Manhattan probate. I will also be doing the
NY Public Library lookups.

Yes I can retrieve the City Clerk marriage licenses, the ones where
the indexes went on line recently, and up to 1950 is available at the
Archives.

As a reminder I can only access births through 1909, marriages through 1937,
City Clerk licenses through 1950 (after that requires going to the marriage
bureau); and deaths through 1948.

I can also do the 1890 Police Census which is not online but that requires
very specific information >from you.

Also I can do naturalizations at the NY Supreme Court which is in the same
building and probates for Manhattan.

Allan offers look-ups in NYC, but I want to clarify to everyone what
is available for NYC without a visit to the Municipal Archives. You
may save yourself and Allan some time.

FamilySearch has a huge number of NYC records available. In some
cases, they have an index online, and the images are browseable, but
they do not have a link between the two.

NYC Naturalizations are available online for most NYC area courts.
The major exception is the Bronx County Court; they have the index
but not the naturalization documents. Most other courts are available
online, >from your home, on FamilySearch. They are all indexed
somewhere online, sometimes on Ancestry, but those indexes give you
the information you need to find the record on FamilySearch. (Yes, NY
Supreme Court is on FamilySearch; the index is on Ancestry.)

NYC Vital Records -- births, marriages, and deaths -- are now
available >from FamilySearch but only >from within the Family History
Library (FHL) or a Family History Center (FHC). Again, the index on
FamilySearch does not link to those browseable images, but they are
easy to find using either the FamilySearch index, or ItalianGen,
and/or Steve Morse's site. Simply search the catalog for the film
number, then browse the film to find the record you need.

According to Allan, FamilySearch has the same births and marriages,
while the Municipal Srchive has a few more years of deaths available.

The marriage licenses are not available >from FamilySearch.
Additionally, stillbirths and some other records with S or D in the
certificate number are not at FamilySearch but I believe are at the
Municipal Archive.

The 1890 Police Census is available >from Ancestry. FamilySearch also
has an index online you can search >from home, and the images are
browseable >from their FHCs.

FamilySearch's browseable images may not always be found >from their
"Records" section. You may need to find the items in the "Catalog",
where you will find a camera icon next to the films. A camera with a
key over it means you must be in an FHC to see the images.

Remember that records >from FamilySearch are free, so if you can get
to an FHC, you do not need to pay for copies of many of the records.
Printing copies will cost money. I've heard that some centers charge
for saving digital copies, but not all and I don't know if that's
true of saving digitized copies or just for making new digital images

from films. (I don't think that saving something already digitized

will cost anything, but I only know the FHL in SLC, where scans are
always free.)

For records that are indexed on Ancestry, the FHC offers free access
to that site as well, as do some public libraries.

If you cannot get to an FHC or the FHL in Salt Lake City, there are
other people who can help you to retrieve the images. It just sounds
like Allan has a lot of work to do, and a backlog of requests, so
some of your requests could probably be found without his help and he
can concentrate on the records that are not otherwise available outside
of NYC.

Banai Lynn Feldstein

From: "A. E. Jordan" <aejordan@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:34:50 -0500

I am going to be resuming lookups in the New York area.

Generally I offer if anyone needs documents >from the New York Municipal
Archives or naturalizations or Manhattan probate. I will also be doing the
NY Public Library lookups.

Yes I can retrieve the City Clerk marriage licenses, the ones where
the indexes went on line recently, and up to 1950 is available at the
Archives.

As a reminder I can only access births through 1909, marriages through 1937,
City Clerk licenses through 1950 (after that requires going to the marriage
bureau); and deaths through 1948.

I can also do the 1890 Police Census which is not online but that requires
very specific information >from you.

Also I can do naturalizations at the NY Supreme Court which is in the same
building and probates for Manhattan.

Dear Genners,

The Jewish community in Port Said existed there between 1869-1956. At
the highest point in the 1920 it had around 1,000 members. It was
composed of three groups: Adenis, Sephardic and Ashkenazi. >from the
little we know most of the time there was a Rabbi who was also the
Shochet and Mohel.

I managed to gather so far the names of the following Rabbis:

Zalel Mandelbaum- Rabbi of the *Sephardic*!!! community,?-1905

Yitchak Yedid Halevi Sephardi 1910?- 1916

Nissim Binyamin Ohana " 1920-1930?

Yeshayahu Lurie Ashkenazi during the 1930. Not sure whether
he was the Rabbi, but was the Head of the Ashkenazi Community.

Menahem Azouz Sephardic 1938

Meir Shbabu Sephardi in the 1940s

I have no idea about the Rabbis in the 1870=1890 years an have some
gaps and unclear dates in the 20th century.

Any additions will be highly appreciated.

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

Dear Genners,

The Jewish community in Port Said existed there between 1869-1956. At
the highest point in the 1920 it had around 1,000 members. It was
composed of three groups: Adenis, Sephardic and Ashkenazi. >from the
little we know most of the time there was a Rabbi who was also the
Shochet and Mohel.

I managed to gather so far the names of the following Rabbis:

Zalel Mandelbaum- Rabbi of the *Sephardic*!!! community,?-1905

Yitchak Yedid Halevi Sephardi 1910?- 1916

Nissim Binyamin Ohana " 1920-1930?

Yeshayahu Lurie Ashkenazi during the 1930. Not sure whether
he was the Rabbi, but was the Head of the Ashkenazi Community.

Menahem Azouz Sephardic 1938

Meir Shbabu Sephardi in the 1940s

I have no idea about the Rabbis in the 1870=1890 years an have some
gaps and unclear dates in the 20th century.

Any additions will be highly appreciated.

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

Dear Genners,

The Jewish community in Port Said existed there between 1869-1956. At
the highest point in the 1920 it had around 1,000 members. It was
composed of three groups: Adenis, Sephardic and Ashkenazi. >from the
little we know most of the time there was a Rabbi who was also the
Shochet and Mohel.

I managed to gather so far the names of the following Rabbis:

Zalel Mandelbaum- Rabbi of the *Sephardic*!!! community,?-1905

Yitchak Yedid Halevi Sephardi 1910?- 1916

Nissim Binyamin Ohana " 1920-1930?

Yeshayahu Lurie Ashkenazi during the 1930. Not sure whether
he was the Rabbi, but was the Head of the Ashkenazi Community.

Menahem Azouz Sephardic 1938

Meir Shbabu Sephardi in the 1940s

I have no idea about the Rabbis in the 1870=1890 years an have some
gaps and unclear dates in the 20th century.

Any additions will be highly appreciated.

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

Dear Genners,

The Jewish community in Port Said existed there between 1869-1956. At
the highest point in the 1920 it had around 1,000 members. It was
composed of three groups: Adenis, Sephardic and Ashkenazi. >from the
little we know most of the time there was a Rabbi who was also the
Shochet and Mohel.

I managed to gather so far the names of the following Rabbis:

Zalel Mandelbaum- Rabbi of the *Sephardic*!!! community,?-1905

Yitchak Yedid Halevi Sephardi 1910?- 1916

Nissim Binyamin Ohana " 1920-1930?

Yeshayahu Lurie Ashkenazi during the 1930. Not sure whether
he was the Rabbi, but was the Head of the Ashkenazi Community.

Menahem Azouz Sephardic 1938

Meir Shbabu Sephardi in the 1940s

I have no idea about the Rabbis in the 1870=1890 years an have some
gaps and unclear dates in the 20th century.

Any additions will be highly appreciated.

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

On 16th Jan I posted a message about my great-aunt Sarah Goldstein,
apparently she migrated >from London to the USA where i sought her
records. Several kind people have told me that the Sarah recorded in
Worcester was not my aunt, wrong parents. I will advise the MyHeritage
site that the Match was incorrect.

So I now have no reason to believe she left England, I have searched in
the "freeBMD" site, which has one or two marriages of her name in
London in each year in the 1880s onwards, but does not give the father's
name so I cannot identify her without ordering certificates.

Bryan Diamond
---
I wrote previously:

My grandmother Jane GOLDSTEIN had a sister Sarah, born in Ellen Street.
east London (parents Suchar Goldstein and Leah Krohn) in 1865-6
according to the 1871 Census of England, in 1881 she was a dressmaker
aged 15, she was not then found in the English records.
...

On 16th Jan I posted a message about my great-aunt Sarah Goldstein,
apparently she migrated >from London to the USA where i sought her
records. Several kind people have told me that the Sarah recorded in
Worcester was not my aunt, wrong parents. I will advise the MyHeritage
site that the Match was incorrect.

So I now have no reason to believe she left England, I have searched in
the "freeBMD" site, which has one or two marriages of her name in
London in each year in the 1880s onwards, but does not give the father's
name so I cannot identify her without ordering certificates.

Bryan Diamond
---
I wrote previously:

My grandmother Jane GOLDSTEIN had a sister Sarah, born in Ellen Street.
east London (parents Suchar Goldstein and Leah Krohn) in 1865-6
according to the 1871 Census of England, in 1881 she was a dressmaker
aged 15, she was not then found in the English records.
...

Yes it is correct that indexes are available online but there are
numerous generalizations in this message which unfortunately are
misleading on the records. I repeat my offer to discuss in detail the
specifics of NYC records with anyone who has a question.

There is a lot of value in the individual records were the summaries
posted online. The LDS for example does not include all of the lines
in the summaries on FamilyHistory not to mention the issues of
handwriting interpretations. A lot of the data entry was done by
people not familiar with New York or Jewish customs so you find
inaccuracies in names for example.

The LDS has a lot of the New York City records but they are mostly
only available with an in person visit to the Family History Library
or Family History Center.

There are however also tools available at the Archives that help to
solve problems. The Archives has the original indexes on microfilm
and >from which many of the online indexes were built, Of course
there are errors or omissions in the online indexes which sometimes
can be solved by working with the microfilmed indexes.

It is correct that the Archives charges a much higher price but the
copies are certified records >from the Archives which some people
require when filing with a court or seeking to use one record to open
another. For example, with a certified death certificate >from the
Archives you in theory can get some of the birth certificates still
held at the Health Department. I say in theory because the Health
Department is difficult to work with and is trying to make the privacy
rules even more difficult but I have had some successes using this
method.

You also need to be careful because some of the online sources appear
to have the files but in many cases those records are incomplete. For
example the 1890 Police Census. The LDS index fails to supply a
critical bit of information which is the address and I have had numerous
instances where I have used the LDS index for this file and the person
in question is not where the index seems to indicate they are located.

The 1890 Police Census images that are on line are a tiny fraction of
the census. If you read Ancestry's description of the file you will see
that it says "These constitute 26 of the 894 extant books...: -- that's
about 3% of the census.

Many people om this list have worked with me in the past and I think you
all understand this is first and foremost a mitzvah to the community. I
enjoy the research challenges and helping others and am happy to assist
anyone who contacts me or offer you recommendations on how to advance
you research.

Allan Jordan

Yes it is correct that indexes are available online but there are
numerous generalizations in this message which unfortunately are
misleading on the records. I repeat my offer to discuss in detail the
specifics of NYC records with anyone who has a question.

There is a lot of value in the individual records were the summaries
posted online. The LDS for example does not include all of the lines
in the summaries on FamilyHistory not to mention the issues of
handwriting interpretations. A lot of the data entry was done by
people not familiar with New York or Jewish customs so you find
inaccuracies in names for example.

The LDS has a lot of the New York City records but they are mostly
only available with an in person visit to the Family History Library
or Family History Center.

There are however also tools available at the Archives that help to
solve problems. The Archives has the original indexes on microfilm
and >from which many of the online indexes were built, Of course
there are errors or omissions in the online indexes which sometimes
can be solved by working with the microfilmed indexes.

It is correct that the Archives charges a much higher price but the
copies are certified records >from the Archives which some people
require when filing with a court or seeking to use one record to open
another. For example, with a certified death certificate >from the
Archives you in theory can get some of the birth certificates still
held at the Health Department. I say in theory because the Health
Department is difficult to work with and is trying to make the privacy
rules even more difficult but I have had some successes using this
method.

You also need to be careful because some of the online sources appear
to have the files but in many cases those records are incomplete. For
example the 1890 Police Census. The LDS index fails to supply a
critical bit of information which is the address and I have had numerous
instances where I have used the LDS index for this file and the person
in question is not where the index seems to indicate they are located.

The 1890 Police Census images that are on line are a tiny fraction of
the census. If you read Ancestry's description of the file you will see
that it says "These constitute 26 of the 894 extant books...: -- that's
about 3% of the census.

Many people om this list have worked with me in the past and I think you
all understand this is first and foremost a mitzvah to the community. I
enjoy the research challenges and helping others and am happy to assist
anyone who contacts me or offer you recommendations on how to advance
you research.

Allan Jordan

Hi,

I have another question regarding my great grandparents' wedding:

They held their wedding reception at Szwajcarskiej Hall, Dzielnej street
number 7.

Would anyone know what kind of indication this gives in regard to their
social standing ?

Best regards,

Tsiporah Trom
Antwerp, Belgium

Researching in WARSAW: GRUNBAUM, BAUMAN, BUGARSKY, PORTNER

Can anyone identify the town in Russia that this 1913 French entry document
indicates as my grandmother's birthplace? It seems to read "Sguerf" Russia.
I had understood my grandmother Lea Grunberg (born in 1892) to be from
Warsaw.

I have posted an excerpt of the original French document on Viewmate at the
following address:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63670

Michael Goldsmith
Bedford, NH

Hi,

I have another question regarding my great grandparents' wedding:

They held their wedding reception at Szwajcarskiej Hall, Dzielnej street
number 7.

Would anyone know what kind of indication this gives in regard to their
social standing ?

Best regards,

Tsiporah Trom
Antwerp, Belgium

Researching in WARSAW: GRUNBAUM, BAUMAN, BUGARSKY, PORTNER

Can anyone identify the town in Russia that this 1913 French entry document
indicates as my grandmother's birthplace? It seems to read "Sguerf" Russia.
I had understood my grandmother Lea Grunberg (born in 1892) to be from
Warsaw.

I have posted an excerpt of the original French document on Viewmate at the
following address:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63670

Michael Goldsmith
Bedford, NH