Date   

"Kotish" = "Kaddish" #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Roberta Ponn wrote:
Could some kind genner tell me the meaning of the above phrase.? It was
used in a will (c1893) to describe money left to the Hebrew Union College
in memory of the will writer and his deceased wife. We do not have any
ideas.

Dear Roberta:

How I love the "detective" opportunities afforded by this Digest! This
strange-looking word "kotish" is the testator's attempt to transliterate
the familiar word "Kaddish" (Why he wrote "kotish" is explained in the
third para. of this message.)

"Kaddish money" was -- and is -- money donated by a testator (or by a
relative after the death) to a person or institution in return for their
undertaking to recite Kaddish at the grave on the decedent's Yahrzeit each
year. Such a donation is often made in cases where there are no
descendants or where the descendants have moved somewhere far away from
the gravesite, as is sadly so often true in the USA Among the orthodox it
was, and is, done also where the testator or decedent has no sons, even if
there are daughters -- who by orthodox custom were deemed ineligible to
recite kaddish. I have more than once heard people say of parents with
daughters but no sons, "How unfortunate that he/she has no Kaddish!"

"KOTISH" is clearly an attempt by the testator (probably an immigrant
whose native language was not English?) to render in English letters the
Hebrew word normally transliterated as "Kaddish." So how did this
happen? It happened because many Americans pronounce the letter letter
"o" more like the sound of "u" in "but" (pronounced the British way)
instead of its standard English pronunciation, which is like "o" in "hot"
(again, pronounced the British way); and because many Americans slur the
letter "t" when it occurs in the middle of a word, pronouncing it more
like a "d" (e.g., "little" is often pronounced "liddle"). So it's easy
to see how an immigrant could have rendered the sound of the first syllable
of "Kaddish" by using the letters k-o-t instead of the letters k-a-d!
(Can we say that K.O.T. = K.A.D. = Q.E.D.?)

This "Kotish" example, by the way, illustrates perfectly why people
should try to use (as far as possible) the standard set of transliterations
developed by the Jewish Theological Seminary for Hebrew -- as used, for
instance, in the Conservative Sim Shalom prayerbook. That way, everyone
would know at once exactly which Hebrew word was intended! (I say "as
far as possible" because, alas, it is not always possible on e-mail,
which precludes the use of diacritical symbols such as underdotting the
letter H when it represents the letter Het.)

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...


MODERATOR NOTE: The original question has been
answered. Anyone with further comments, please
continue privately. This thread is now closed.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "Kotish" = "Kaddish" #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Roberta Ponn wrote:
Could some kind genner tell me the meaning of the above phrase.? It was
used in a will (c1893) to describe money left to the Hebrew Union College
in memory of the will writer and his deceased wife. We do not have any
ideas.

Dear Roberta:

How I love the "detective" opportunities afforded by this Digest! This
strange-looking word "kotish" is the testator's attempt to transliterate
the familiar word "Kaddish" (Why he wrote "kotish" is explained in the
third para. of this message.)

"Kaddish money" was -- and is -- money donated by a testator (or by a
relative after the death) to a person or institution in return for their
undertaking to recite Kaddish at the grave on the decedent's Yahrzeit each
year. Such a donation is often made in cases where there are no
descendants or where the descendants have moved somewhere far away from
the gravesite, as is sadly so often true in the USA Among the orthodox it
was, and is, done also where the testator or decedent has no sons, even if
there are daughters -- who by orthodox custom were deemed ineligible to
recite kaddish. I have more than once heard people say of parents with
daughters but no sons, "How unfortunate that he/she has no Kaddish!"

"KOTISH" is clearly an attempt by the testator (probably an immigrant
whose native language was not English?) to render in English letters the
Hebrew word normally transliterated as "Kaddish." So how did this
happen? It happened because many Americans pronounce the letter letter
"o" more like the sound of "u" in "but" (pronounced the British way)
instead of its standard English pronunciation, which is like "o" in "hot"
(again, pronounced the British way); and because many Americans slur the
letter "t" when it occurs in the middle of a word, pronouncing it more
like a "d" (e.g., "little" is often pronounced "liddle"). So it's easy
to see how an immigrant could have rendered the sound of the first syllable
of "Kaddish" by using the letters k-o-t instead of the letters k-a-d!
(Can we say that K.O.T. = K.A.D. = Q.E.D.?)

This "Kotish" example, by the way, illustrates perfectly why people
should try to use (as far as possible) the standard set of transliterations
developed by the Jewish Theological Seminary for Hebrew -- as used, for
instance, in the Conservative Sim Shalom prayerbook. That way, everyone
would know at once exactly which Hebrew word was intended! (I say "as
far as possible" because, alas, it is not always possible on e-mail,
which precludes the use of diacritical symbols such as underdotting the
letter H when it represents the letter Het.)

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...


MODERATOR NOTE: The original question has been
answered. Anyone with further comments, please
continue privately. This thread is now closed.


Searching PRAEGER #general

Luiz Alfredo Lilienthal <lilienth@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I am looking for the descendants of the twin sister of my grandmother
Nora LILIENTHAL, nee SCHLESINGER. Her name was Irmgard SCHLESINGER. She
married Dr Bruno BARBASCH and had two daughters: Anita and Lore (both
born in Germany, perhaps in Berlin). Anita died in her twenties, in
Israel, shortly after being widowed (name of husband unknown). Lore (who
must be in her late sixties today) married E. (?) PRAEGER and had one
son, Dan (Daniel?) PRAEGER. For some time they lived in Beverly Hills,
CA, but I lost contact. Irmgard BARBASCH died in Israel in the 60=92s.

Does this ring any bells?

Luiz Lilienthal
Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching PRAEGER #general

Luiz Alfredo Lilienthal <lilienth@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I am looking for the descendants of the twin sister of my grandmother
Nora LILIENTHAL, nee SCHLESINGER. Her name was Irmgard SCHLESINGER. She
married Dr Bruno BARBASCH and had two daughters: Anita and Lore (both
born in Germany, perhaps in Berlin). Anita died in her twenties, in
Israel, shortly after being widowed (name of husband unknown). Lore (who
must be in her late sixties today) married E. (?) PRAEGER and had one
son, Dan (Daniel?) PRAEGER. For some time they lived in Beverly Hills,
CA, but I lost contact. Irmgard BARBASCH died in Israel in the 60=92s.

Does this ring any bells?

Luiz Lilienthal
Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil


butcher/midwife #general

Jane M. Dotson <jdot1p@...>
 

What is the Jewish terminology for butcher and midewife?

Jane


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen butcher/midwife #general

Jane M. Dotson <jdot1p@...>
 

What is the Jewish terminology for butcher and midewife?

Jane


Lookup street in Berlin #general

Kalman Appel <kaappel@...>
 

Could someone familiar with Berlin tell me whether the following
address was in East or West Berlin before the Berlin Wall came down:
Charlottenburg,
Olympische Str.

Please respond privately.

Kalman Appel
kaappel@... <- use ONLY this as MAILTO address


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Lookup street in Berlin #general

Kalman Appel <kaappel@...>
 

Could someone familiar with Berlin tell me whether the following
address was in East or West Berlin before the Berlin Wall came down:
Charlottenburg,
Olympische Str.

Please respond privately.

Kalman Appel
kaappel@... <- use ONLY this as MAILTO address


Re: A female name #general

Nathan Reiss <reiss@...>
 

pollins@... (Harold Pollins) writes:

My mother was born in Belarus and named Disheh (variously spelled,
eg Disya). Her name in England was Dora.
Disheh is probably the Litvak pronunciation of Dushe, which my copy
of Kaganoff's "A Dictionary of Jewish Names and their History" says
is a nickname for Devorah (Deborah). I have seen the name Dusschen
in German families, which probably comes >from the same root.

Nat Reiss
reiss@...

Researching:
REISS, STRAUSS, BAUM, GOLDSCHMIDT, LILIENSTEIN, GRIESHEIM,
EDELMUTH, LIPPMANN, MAY, METZGER, all >from Hesse, Germany;
GOLDBLUM, FREYLICH, >from Olkusz, Russo-Poland;
KRIEGER >from Malecz and Oswiecim (Auschwitz), Austro-Poland.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A female name #general

Nathan Reiss <reiss@...>
 

pollins@... (Harold Pollins) writes:

My mother was born in Belarus and named Disheh (variously spelled,
eg Disya). Her name in England was Dora.
Disheh is probably the Litvak pronunciation of Dushe, which my copy
of Kaganoff's "A Dictionary of Jewish Names and their History" says
is a nickname for Devorah (Deborah). I have seen the name Dusschen
in German families, which probably comes >from the same root.

Nat Reiss
reiss@...

Researching:
REISS, STRAUSS, BAUM, GOLDSCHMIDT, LILIENSTEIN, GRIESHEIM,
EDELMUTH, LIPPMANN, MAY, METZGER, all >from Hesse, Germany;
GOLDBLUM, FREYLICH, >from Olkusz, Russo-Poland;
KRIEGER >from Malecz and Oswiecim (Auschwitz), Austro-Poland.


Re: butcher/midwife #general

Ray/Lee White <zeppo@...>
 

Midwife is avartiki

Awaiting info on ''butcher''

Ray/Lee White

Jane M. Dotson writes:

What is the Jewish terminology for butcher and midewife?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: butcher/midwife #general

Ray/Lee White <zeppo@...>
 

Midwife is avartiki

Awaiting info on ''butcher''

Ray/Lee White

Jane M. Dotson writes:

What is the Jewish terminology for butcher and midewife?


Re: Anyone planning to visit Mt. Carmel Cemetery, New York? #general

Roger Edelman <roger_edelman@...>
 

Roy

You can call Mt. Carmel. The number and address is: Cypress Hills Rd
Flushing, NY (718) 366-5900.

That info was obtained >from www.yahoo.com. Go to the yellow pages;
change the city location to the one you need. Next put 'cemetery'
in the name of the business to look for. You will get a very
comprehensive list.

I have done this for all of the cemetery's I have relatives in. They
will provide the exact grave locations, and in a few instances, they
can take pictures for you.

Good Luck,
Roger

Roy Ogus wrote:

Is anyone planning to visit Mt. Carmel Cemetery, in Glendale, NY, in
the near future?
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could locate a few family
gravesites in the cemetery, and either photograph the gravestones for
me, or write down the information >from the gravestones for me.
If anyone can help with this, please contact me directly.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Anyone planning to visit Mt. Carmel Cemetery, New York? #general

Roger Edelman <roger_edelman@...>
 

Roy

You can call Mt. Carmel. The number and address is: Cypress Hills Rd
Flushing, NY (718) 366-5900.

That info was obtained >from www.yahoo.com. Go to the yellow pages;
change the city location to the one you need. Next put 'cemetery'
in the name of the business to look for. You will get a very
comprehensive list.

I have done this for all of the cemetery's I have relatives in. They
will provide the exact grave locations, and in a few instances, they
can take pictures for you.

Good Luck,
Roger

Roy Ogus wrote:

Is anyone planning to visit Mt. Carmel Cemetery, in Glendale, NY, in
the near future?
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could locate a few family
gravesites in the cemetery, and either photograph the gravestones for
me, or write down the information >from the gravestones for me.
If anyone can help with this, please contact me directly.


Searching: BOBROWITZ/WOLOSOW - Vilna #general

Michael Trapunsky <mtrap@...>
 

Hi,

I'm looking for any information on the BOBROWITZ and WOLOSOW families
from Shirvint (Sirvintos) and Vilna. They were 2 of the 9 children of
Sholom and Dobe TRAPUNSKI.

Chana TRAPUNSKI (born aprox. 1872) married Abraham Yudel WOLOSOW in 1897
in Vilna. They had 4 children that I know of: Elais, Chaium, Shlomo,
and a daughter.

Gitel TRAPUNSKI (born aprox. 1889) married Shmuel BOBROWITZ in 1909 in
Vilna. They had 3 children that I know of: Roni, Genia and another girl.

I have the marriage documents for both sisters (>from the Vilna Archives)
but I don't know anything else about the families. If anyone has any
information regarding these families I would love to hear >from you.

Thanks in advance.

Michael Trapunsky
Rego Park, NY
mtrap@idt


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: BOBROWITZ/WOLOSOW - Vilna #general

Michael Trapunsky <mtrap@...>
 

Hi,

I'm looking for any information on the BOBROWITZ and WOLOSOW families
from Shirvint (Sirvintos) and Vilna. They were 2 of the 9 children of
Sholom and Dobe TRAPUNSKI.

Chana TRAPUNSKI (born aprox. 1872) married Abraham Yudel WOLOSOW in 1897
in Vilna. They had 4 children that I know of: Elais, Chaium, Shlomo,
and a daughter.

Gitel TRAPUNSKI (born aprox. 1889) married Shmuel BOBROWITZ in 1909 in
Vilna. They had 3 children that I know of: Roni, Genia and another girl.

I have the marriage documents for both sisters (>from the Vilna Archives)
but I don't know anything else about the families. If anyone has any
information regarding these families I would love to hear >from you.

Thanks in advance.

Michael Trapunsky
Rego Park, NY
mtrap@idt


Book- My mother Chaya Sara #lithuania

Molly Karp <MALKAHKARP@...>
 

Subject: Book - My mother Chaya Sara
From: edinbal@...
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 18:28:06 PDT

I am trying to get the book written
by Don Gussow in the 1970's called
"My mother Chaya Sara".

Dear Beryl, and other members of the list,

If you go to the website of the Advanced Book Exchange
(www.abebooks.com),
you will see that they search out-of-print, second-hand, rare and
antiquarian books. Maybe they can find what you're looking for. I have
used this website extensively and have found it to be an excellent
resource. I have no financial interest in the company of any kind.

Molly Karp
New York


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Book- My mother Chaya Sara #lithuania

Molly Karp <MALKAHKARP@...>
 

Subject: Book - My mother Chaya Sara
From: edinbal@...
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 18:28:06 PDT

I am trying to get the book written
by Don Gussow in the 1970's called
"My mother Chaya Sara".

Dear Beryl, and other members of the list,

If you go to the website of the Advanced Book Exchange
(www.abebooks.com),
you will see that they search out-of-print, second-hand, rare and
antiquarian books. Maybe they can find what you're looking for. I have
used this website extensively and have found it to be an excellent
resource. I have no financial interest in the company of any kind.

Molly Karp
New York


Auschwitz Archives #hungary

cyberpass <cyberpass@...>
 

A very dear friend of ours who lives near Krakow called the director of
the archives at Auschwitz yesterday to inquire about the best method for
placing inquiries with the archive. Maria was told that inquiries sent
in Polish will be answered within 2 to 3 weeks (although she was assured
they do read and respond in English if necesssary). There was no mention
of the need for any numbers >from the Auschwitz death books--but you must
include as much detail as possible. The address she was told to write
to is:

ARCHIWUM PANSTWOWEGO MUZEUM W OSWIECIMIU
UL.WIEZNIOW OSWIECIMIA 20
33-603 OSWIECIM

It appears to be pretty close to the one I've seen posted, but this seems
to have a street address--maybe it speeds things up a little?

Good luck,
Sheryl Kastriner ( PS Sorry if some perceive that this did not pertain
directly to Hungary...my thought was that if you are inquiring about you
r Hungarian family as I am, and you know someone who can read and write
Polish, that you would be much better off inquiring in Polish)


Hungary SIG #Hungary Auschwitz Archives #hungary

cyberpass <cyberpass@...>
 

A very dear friend of ours who lives near Krakow called the director of
the archives at Auschwitz yesterday to inquire about the best method for
placing inquiries with the archive. Maria was told that inquiries sent
in Polish will be answered within 2 to 3 weeks (although she was assured
they do read and respond in English if necesssary). There was no mention
of the need for any numbers >from the Auschwitz death books--but you must
include as much detail as possible. The address she was told to write
to is:

ARCHIWUM PANSTWOWEGO MUZEUM W OSWIECIMIU
UL.WIEZNIOW OSWIECIMIA 20
33-603 OSWIECIM

It appears to be pretty close to the one I've seen posted, but this seems
to have a street address--maybe it speeds things up a little?

Good luck,
Sheryl Kastriner ( PS Sorry if some perceive that this did not pertain
directly to Hungary...my thought was that if you are inquiring about you
r Hungarian family as I am, and you know someone who can read and write
Polish, that you would be much better off inquiring in Polish)