Re: Yiddish Language Instructions - Duolingo #yiddish

Gloria Berkenstat Freund

The people voicing the Yiddish sentences on Duolingo are speaking Yiddish with a Satmar [Hungarian] accent. It is definitely not the "standard" YIVO pronunciation nor the Yiddish that was spoken in Poland that I grew up hearing. It also is not the Yiddish accent that one would hear at the Workers' Circle [Arbeter Ring] or YIVO Yiddish classes. 

Gloria Berkenstat Freund

Re: Yiddish Language Instructions - Duolingo #yiddish

Jeffrey Grossman

Here are links to a couple of explanations of the various accents/dialects used in the Duolingo course:

Jeffrey Grossman 
Redmond WA

SEARCHING Horowitz/Gurevitch (Vitebsk)
Grossmann (Berlin)

Re: Perkels in Belarus #belarus


Here are the Perkels in Pruzhany in the Census of 1853. The source is a site about Pruzhany I am not sure it still exist.


Abram Leizerovich Perkel 62

Sons 1) Leizer Ber 37  

2) Leiba 24     

3) Morduch 21

4) Shmuilo 14 

Leizer’s son Orel Icka 10        

Chaim  Gesheliovich Perkel 25          

Brother Meer 29         

Leizer Mendel Davidovich Perkel 43

Son Shlioma 21

Rafal   Leizerovich Perkel 30

Son Leizer 14 

Brother Movsha 26     

Jankel  Eliovich Perkel 25     

Brother Orel 30

Orel’s son Nosel 11      

Hope this helps,

Max Polonovski
Cercle de genealogie juive, Paris, France

Re: Census Records? 1887 #russia


On Miriam Weiner's Routes to Roots Foundation website,  ,searching for Bialystok, we get under the second Census link:

Locality/Town:         BIALYSTOK
Powiat/County: BIALYSTOK
Wojewodztwo/Province: BIALYSTOK
Country:                 POLAND
Archive Locale: GRODNO
Archive Type:         ARCHIVES
Document Type: CENSUS
Year List:                 1853;1858;1860-1865;1869;1874;1883-1896
Zespol/Sygnatura: 2/2/69;24/7/177,182,187,203,213,224

So it appears that the Archives in Grodno has "census" records of some type, maybe they are really revision lists.

I hope this helps.

Larry Bassist
Springville, Utah, USA

Re: Free Webinar with Dr Janette Silverman , May 23rd Researching in Easter Europe #events #announcements


Apologies, there was a problem with the link
This one will get you registered.  

Vivs Laliberte

Orange County, Calfiornia

Re: Different date on birth record #romania #records #yizkorbooks

David Harrison <djh_119@...>

An example of the change of date due to change of calendars the Birthday of my Grandfather.  At home in England this was always treated as  14 Jan 1868.  But in Poland (or in Russia) it was 30 Dec 1867.    Therefore, note that in different countries there may be different calendars.  It should be simple for a Jew to swap between them, being used to swapping dates for work and for play and with some families keeping Yahrzeits in the one system and others in the other.  But I forgot it when searching in Poland.
David Harrison
Birmingham, England

From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of jbonline1111@... <jbonline1111@...>
Sent: 15 May 2021 16:56
To: main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [] Different date on birth record #romania #records #yizkorbooks
My maternal grandfather was born in what is now Belarus and did not know his birth date, just that it was during Passover, so his children "gave" him a birthday, April 15.  

My father's birth certificate says he was born in NYC on March 30, 1917, but we always celebrated his birthday on March 29, because "my mother said that's the day I was born."

While the notion that that October 22 was the date of the bris and well might be the correct answer in this case, as my family history shows, there are many reasons that exact birth dates are not known.
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Re: Different date on birth record #romania #records #yizkorbooks


Ha!  Birth dates are a fun topic.  People really didn't pay attention to those things especially in the old country.  Even in the US they can be iffy.

A couple of examples:  My gm was born in Warsaw, but she never really new her actual birthday.  Somehow in the early 1960s one of her brothers got the date from Warsaw (I wish I knew how).

My father's New York City birth certificate has a "wrong" first name (as does my mother's) and a birth date that he said he didn't use as a child.  The family celebrated it on a different day a few weeks earlier.  Our theory is that the later date was the day the midwife registered the birth. He used the certificate date as his official b-day and celebrated it then too. And to make things crazier, his father's Petition for Naturalization, which lists his family, has a birth date for my father that is a year later and his sister's year was several years too early. And my adult father was there when the petition was filled out. 

Unless there is a burning reason to have certainty for a birth date, I wouldn't get to worked up about the actual date.  As long as you have the right person, be satisfied.

Jessica Schein

Free Webinar with Dr Janette Silverman , May 23rd Researching in Easter Europe #events #announcements


Please share with anyone whom you believe will be interested.
Join us May 23rd at Noon Pacific Time (google what time is it in Los Angeles if you need help converting 😊 for a world class lecturer on Eastern European and Jewish Genealogy, Janette Silverman!  
"Join me in a recap of  a 27 day trip my team and I took to find documents and context for research projects. We drove to Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, Romania and Moldova in search of elusive documents and to discover what various towns might have looked like 100+ years ago, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. We’ll stop in a few of the places so you have an overview of what researching on the ground was like. We’ll discuss some general challenges and what can be accomplished. Perhaps in future talks we’ll take a more in-depth look at archives in specific countries and  look at types of documents that can be found."
Dr. Janette Silverman is a professional genealogist, heading a team of researchers specializing in Eastern European and Jewish research at AncestryProGenealogists® the division of Ancestry® that does private client research. Her research on behalf of clients takes her all over the U.S. and Europe.
Janette holds a Doctorate in Jewish Studies from Spertus Institute. Her dissertation, "In Living Memory" explored her family's journey from Europe to the U.S. from the 1880s to the 1920s, contextualizing their experiences.
Her journey into genealogy began over 40 years ago as a hobby with her dad. It became an obsession and the two of them could be found at family gatherings asking endless questions. Her mom taught her to love jigsaw puzzles as a child. The lessons she learned from that are to look at problems and their solutions from many different angles.
Janette speaks at conferences all over the world, now virtually, but previously in person. She has published articles on genealogical research in The Association of Professional Genealogists Quarterly, The Tennessee Historical Quarterly, Avotaynu, and Galitzianer. Most recently, she wrote "Genealogy at a Glance: Finding Eastern European Jewish Ancestors," part of the Genealogy at a Glance series. Except during this period of COVID, she travels extensively in Eastern Europe doing archival research and accompanying clients on visits to their ancestral villages.
Register at this link
Sponsored by the E-Y6923 Jewish YDNA Project
Vivs Laliberte

Orange County, Calfiornia

Re: Response to query: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #names

Frank Szmulowicz

How about the simple Schwarz, which is German for black.
Frank Szmulowicz

Re: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #general #poland #names

Fred Millner

Thank you, Lee, for a thorough response.  One point:  Shimel/Szymel is Yiddish for Simon.  Szmuel/Shmuil is homophonic search-wise but is Samuel.  My ggf Shmuil had a brother Shimel.
Fred Millner

Re: What happened to Lilli Karoline Loeb? #names #usa

Diane Jacobs

Several things come to mind for you to search.

1.  Try  for NYC death and marriage indexes 

 2. Look up NYC Directories for 1946 and after.

3. The 1950 US census is due to be public info
Next year.  This could help you find her in NYC 
Or elsewhere.

Good luck.

Diane Jacobs

On May 15, 2021, at 9:49 PM, rlmeher via <> wrote:

I am trying to find out what happened to my Aunt, Lilli Karoline Loeb.  I know that she was born  on 10 October 1912 in Sprendlingen, Germany.    ( I am also interested in joining a Sprendlingen research group. ) I have been able to discover that she fled Germany to work as a nurse at the City Hospital in Nottingham, UK in 1939.   Nov. 7, 1940 she came to the US on the ship ‘Samaria’.   Then she joined her brother, Arthur Anselm Loeb, in Vicksburg, Mississippi in 1941.  She lived with him and his wife Edith Loeb  (nee Zodner).  Finally, she made her way to New York City in 1946.  Her address at the time was in Washington Heights, NYC.


After 1946, I can not find any information. I do not know if she married, or if she left the United States or if she died.   I have requested marriage or death records from NYC but there are no records for her.   If anyone has any ideas of where I could continue to research please let me know.

Ramona Meher

Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Obtaining German Citizenship under Article 116 #germany

Richard Oppenheimer

A number of you have recently asked questions about obtaining German Citizenship under Article 116. I have just completed the process and received my German citizenship Certificate on May 14, 2021. I started the process in April of 2019. I did everything by myself without the assistance of an attorney. Both of my parents were born in Germany, I was born in the US. I live in Florida, so I contacted the German Embassy in Miami. You must use the Embassy that has jurisdiction of where you live. I was able to obtain birth records of both my parents through the local archives in Germany. Both of my parents are deceased. Additional documents such as proof of my parent’s residency in US, my parents’ marriage certificate, my birth certificate, and my parent’s naturalization certificates for US Citizenship rounded out the documentation needed to apply. I was also asked to provide birth information of all four grandparents. I was told the entire process should take between 18 and 24 months. I mailed all of the documents, which needed to be notarized (in the US) to the Embassy in Miami. Miami mailed the package to Germany for processing. No tests of German history or German language skills were given. The German embassy in Miami reviewed all of my documents prior to sending them to Germany. The Miami embassy asked for a few more details, but once they reviewed it, no one came back to me for more information.

Last week, exactly 22 months since I started the process, I was notified to come to the Embassy in person to pick up my Naturalization Certificate and simultaneously apply for a German passport. This must be done in person. The passport should be mailed to me 6 weeks after submitting the application. I looked at the German Embassy website today, and the process now is estimated to take between 24 and 36 months.

I hope this answers many of your questions. Feel free to email me directly if you have any more questions.



Richard Oppenheimer

Venice Florida


Richard Oppenheimer
Venice, Florida, USA

New York Deed Research #usa #general

Judy Floam

Is there a way to research deeds in Manhattan on-line?   If not, how can I do it in person?  I am trying to find out when my grandparents bought the building they lived in (I’m guessing it was in the 1920s or 30s).   Thank you.


Judy Floam

Baltimore, MD


Re: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #general #poland #names

Reuven Mohr

"when he arrived in the U.S. in 1875 from Wroclaw, Poland." makes no sense.
If you mean Wroclaw in Silesia, it was a German city till 1945, so Polish spellings are not relevant.
If you mean another Polish city, the spelling is probably different.

Reuven Mohr, Israel

Re: Yiddish Language Instructions - Duolingo #yiddish

Bernard Miller

Thanks for that useful piece of information. 

I have been using Duolingo over the past few months either to refresh, activate or learn and have found it useful (but sometimes very annoying) but I will certainly give the Yiddish a try.

I was looking for a Catalan course and they do one from Spanish (which I have now completed) and I would be interested in a Ladino course (uTalk do one). And I have used it to refresh my Portuguese and am hoping to revive my Hebrew with it.

Bernard Miller
London, England

Re: Perkels in Belarus #belarus

Louis Zetler

There are/were PERKELs in South Africa

Louis Zetler

Re: Response to query: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #names

Israel P

Samuel could have been any of a  dozen Jewish given names or maybe something not connected at all.

Black could be a translation, in which case it would depend on the place he came from. Or it could be a "sounds like."

Israel Pickholtz

My genealogy research is electric.
It follows the path of least resistance.

Prero, Rosenblum and Schwimmer from Munkacz #subcarpathia #galicia #general

Moishe Miller

Dear Group,

My g-g-gf was Israel Schwimmer of Munkacz. I have found records related to his sister, Brane. The 1874 second marriage for Brane Schwimmer of Munkacz (daughter of Jakob Svimmer and Szure), lists her as a widow, marrying Israel Abraham ROSENBLUM, a widower, Talmud teacher, son of Beniamin [Rosenblum], and Beile Klein, born Rÿmánow in Galicia. You can see that marriage record here:

I have found earlier records in Munkacz showing children born to a Brane Schwimmer and Lazar (Eliezer) PRERO (but no marriage record yet). It seems possible that these two Brane's, PRERO and ROSENBLUM, are the same person, as the births for the Prero children stop about 1872, prior to Brane's being widowed. 

Would anyone have knowledge of any of these families? I am looking for some record of family history to bolster or deny my theory.

Stay safe,

Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
JGFF #3391

Re: How to track naturalization number codes written later on passenger manifests #records

David Oseas


In addition to the info in the JewishGen Manifest Markings Infofile that Laurie pointed you to, here are a couple of observations that I've made during my naturalization research that might help you:
  • unfortunately, there isn't an index that cross references the number in the naturalization verification marking (the Certificate of Arrival request) and petition number
  • the number before the dash will help you pinpoint the district in which the person filed for naturalization
  • the naturalization verification date can help you locate a possible naturalization in a naturalization index collection.  While there are no hard & fast rules regarding dates, the majority of the cases that I've researched have a CofA date from 2 weeks to 4 months prior to filing their petition and the petition date is 4 months to 1 year prior to their citizenship certificate date (which is the date shown in naturalization indexes).  So, I would look in an index for a naturalization with a date from 4.5 months to 1.5 years after the verification date.  Of course, there are exceptions: in one case, the CofA verification occurred 6 months after the petition was filed.
  • only about 50% of the folks that I've researched that were issued a 505 form rather than a CofA ever went on to successfully naturalize (and none of the folks that had received a 404 ever naturalized).
David Oseas

HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York;  KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
Hungary > New York;  OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York;  SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel;  WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles

Response to query: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #names


In response to: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black?

It is possible that the name is Blach (German Jews have changed their Blach name to Black).

Leslie Koelsch

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