Date   

Fate of Sarah (Sure) TROLMAN (TROULEMAN) #general

Richard Jay Keene
 

I wonder if any Genners are relatives/ descendants of Sarah TROLMAN who came
to NYC >from Russia in 1904 as the wife of my pgf Abraham KEENE. I found the
couple living in Manhattan with their infant son Bernard in the 1905 NYC
city census.

Two years later Abraham KEENE married my pgm Rosie RODINSKY. I cannot find
an appropriate Sarah KEENE or any records of a Sarah TROLMAN remarriage in
the NYC Vital statistics. Of course there are other possibilities.

Please reply privately.

Thanks,

Richard Keene


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Fate of Sarah (Sure) TROLMAN (TROULEMAN) #general

Richard Jay Keene
 

I wonder if any Genners are relatives/ descendants of Sarah TROLMAN who came
to NYC >from Russia in 1904 as the wife of my pgf Abraham KEENE. I found the
couple living in Manhattan with their infant son Bernard in the 1905 NYC
city census.

Two years later Abraham KEENE married my pgm Rosie RODINSKY. I cannot find
an appropriate Sarah KEENE or any records of a Sarah TROLMAN remarriage in
the NYC Vital statistics. Of course there are other possibilities.

Please reply privately.

Thanks,

Richard Keene


Help in Visiting Old Montefiore (Queens, NY) #general

Arnon Hershkovitz <arnonh@...>
 

Hello, Dear Colleagues!

I've found a potential relative who's buried in Old Montefiore Cemetery
(Queens, NY).
I have his exact grave location (>from the cemetery office), and full details
(name, date of death).

I'd like now to get his father's name (and any other details) >from the tomb.

Any help in getting to the cemetery and take a picture of his grave will be
much appreciated.

Yours,
Arnon Hershkovitz, Israel
arnonh@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help in Visiting Old Montefiore (Queens, NY) #general

Arnon Hershkovitz <arnonh@...>
 

Hello, Dear Colleagues!

I've found a potential relative who's buried in Old Montefiore Cemetery
(Queens, NY).
I have his exact grave location (>from the cemetery office), and full details
(name, date of death).

I'd like now to get his father's name (and any other details) >from the tomb.

Any help in getting to the cemetery and take a picture of his grave will be
much appreciated.

Yours,
Arnon Hershkovitz, Israel
arnonh@...


RAIKHZELIGMAN Database query #general

Angie Elfassi
 

Hi,

I am searching my RAYKHZELIGMAN (or variants of that name) family.

I have been very fortunate >from day one finding information with
JewishGen's database about my family and I used this data to start
my tree.

I recently rechecked the database and found happily that there was
new information. But here's the thing.

Some of the information does not tie in with the info I originally
found on the database.

Could it be that two different ancestors each married a second time?
And one of the ancestors - RAIKHZELIGMAN, Khaim Mordukh s/o Josel,
s/o Shlomo, according to my previous records that I found on the
LitvakSIG site, Josel was the s/o Leib.

Any ideas/suggestions would be gratefully accepted.
Regards
Angie Elfassi
Israel

Searching:
RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds
COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds
MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds
KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RAIKHZELIGMAN Database query #general

Angie Elfassi
 

Hi,

I am searching my RAYKHZELIGMAN (or variants of that name) family.

I have been very fortunate >from day one finding information with
JewishGen's database about my family and I used this data to start
my tree.

I recently rechecked the database and found happily that there was
new information. But here's the thing.

Some of the information does not tie in with the info I originally
found on the database.

Could it be that two different ancestors each married a second time?
And one of the ancestors - RAIKHZELIGMAN, Khaim Mordukh s/o Josel,
s/o Shlomo, according to my previous records that I found on the
LitvakSIG site, Josel was the s/o Leib.

Any ideas/suggestions would be gratefully accepted.
Regards
Angie Elfassi
Israel

Searching:
RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds
COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds
MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds
KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds


KALMEN/KALMAN/KOLMAN from Vieksniai, Lithuania #general

Andrew Colman
 

Dear Genners

My paternal ancestors >from Vieksniai, Lithuania, are listed in
historical records as KALMEN, KALMAN, and occasionally KOLMAN.
My branch of the family emigrated to South Africa in the 1890s.
I have subsequently found another family, also >from Vieksniai,
now called KOLMAN, some of whom died in the Holocaust but with
(non English-speaking) descendants still living in Lithuania
(Kaunas and Klaipeda). These two families must surely be related,
but I can't find the connection, although I've tried hard. I
have posted a genealogy report of my own KALMEN family (linked
to a Facebook group page) as a Word document here:

http://www.le.ac.uk/home/amc/family/kalmen.doc

And I've also posted a very incomplete and probably inaccurate
genealogy report of the other KOLMAN family, here:

http://www.le.ac.uk/home/amc/family/kolman.doc

I'd be greatly indebted to anyone who could help me find the
missing link between these two families, if there is one. And
of course I'd also be grateful also to anyone who could help me
fill in gaps in either of them, even without establishing any
link. Please reply privately.

Andrew Colman
Leicester, UK
@Xenogenes


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen KALMEN/KALMAN/KOLMAN from Vieksniai, Lithuania #general

Andrew Colman
 

Dear Genners

My paternal ancestors >from Vieksniai, Lithuania, are listed in
historical records as KALMEN, KALMAN, and occasionally KOLMAN.
My branch of the family emigrated to South Africa in the 1890s.
I have subsequently found another family, also >from Vieksniai,
now called KOLMAN, some of whom died in the Holocaust but with
(non English-speaking) descendants still living in Lithuania
(Kaunas and Klaipeda). These two families must surely be related,
but I can't find the connection, although I've tried hard. I
have posted a genealogy report of my own KALMEN family (linked
to a Facebook group page) as a Word document here:

http://www.le.ac.uk/home/amc/family/kalmen.doc

And I've also posted a very incomplete and probably inaccurate
genealogy report of the other KOLMAN family, here:

http://www.le.ac.uk/home/amc/family/kolman.doc

I'd be greatly indebted to anyone who could help me find the
missing link between these two families, if there is one. And
of course I'd also be grateful also to anyone who could help me
fill in gaps in either of them, even without establishing any
link. Please reply privately.

Andrew Colman
Leicester, UK
@Xenogenes


Thanks for Identifying a New Zealand Photo #general

Mady Land <madyland@...>
 

Dear Genners,
Although I've tried to thank everyone individually who responded to my
Viewmate posting of a 1908 New Zealand photo, I wanted to express my
gratitude with the group in case I missed someone. The location has been
identified as a well-known Wellington landmark called "Athletic Field",
which I've looked up on Wikipedia (for a complete history). The
photographer, Joseph Zachariah, has also been identified, and has an
interesting background.
I still have no idea why my grandmother had the picture (which is a generic
crowd scene) other than my grandfather and his brother had spent some time
in New Zealand/Australia prior to coming to America. Perhaps they were just
rugby fans. My grandfather could not have been in the photo as I thought (as
he left for the U.S. a year before the photo was taken), but this experience
just reinforces for me how genealogical research can lead to an unexpected
education!
Thanks again everyone for your help.
Mady Land, New York, NY
Madyland04@...
Researching:
LANDSZNEJDER/LANDSCHNEIDER/Plock, Bodzanow, Gabin, Zychlin, New York;
GEDEGER/EIIDEGER/KELMAN/KIELMAN/Nowe Miasto Nad Pilica,
New York; FOGEL/FOGIEL/Hrubieszow, New York;
LADZINSKI/LADYSINSKA/Myastowka, Ukraine, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Thanks for Identifying a New Zealand Photo #general

Mady Land <madyland@...>
 

Dear Genners,
Although I've tried to thank everyone individually who responded to my
Viewmate posting of a 1908 New Zealand photo, I wanted to express my
gratitude with the group in case I missed someone. The location has been
identified as a well-known Wellington landmark called "Athletic Field",
which I've looked up on Wikipedia (for a complete history). The
photographer, Joseph Zachariah, has also been identified, and has an
interesting background.
I still have no idea why my grandmother had the picture (which is a generic
crowd scene) other than my grandfather and his brother had spent some time
in New Zealand/Australia prior to coming to America. Perhaps they were just
rugby fans. My grandfather could not have been in the photo as I thought (as
he left for the U.S. a year before the photo was taken), but this experience
just reinforces for me how genealogical research can lead to an unexpected
education!
Thanks again everyone for your help.
Mady Land, New York, NY
Madyland04@...
Researching:
LANDSZNEJDER/LANDSCHNEIDER/Plock, Bodzanow, Gabin, Zychlin, New York;
GEDEGER/EIIDEGER/KELMAN/KIELMAN/Nowe Miasto Nad Pilica,
New York; FOGEL/FOGIEL/Hrubieszow, New York;
LADZINSKI/LADYSINSKA/Myastowka, Ukraine, New York


LIDMAN or LITMAN Family from Kiev Gubernia #general

Linda Shefler
 

Up until recently I knew that the sister (Toby NULMAN) of my gg grandfather
had married a man named BORNSTEIN or BRAUNSTEIN. But it turns out that the
son of Toby and his family used that name when they immigrated to America at
the turn of the 20th century and their real name was LIDMAN or LITMAN.

I am attempting to properly piece together this disjointed LIDMAN/LITMAN
family that I believe is >from Kiev gubernia. The family might have come
from someplace around Fastov as they married into the NULMAN family from
Fastov. They settled at the turn of the 20th century in Fall River, MA and
Providence, RI.

This is what "I think" I know:
An Unknown LIDMAN married Toby NULMAN (probably around 1870).

They had three children that I am aware of:
Barnet (Benjamin) LIDMAN (born ~1870) who married Hida KOPIT/COPIT and had
daughters Bessie and Sarah (born ~1892).

Rose (Bobsy) LIDMAN (born ~1874) who married Wolf (William) CHARNOW
(probably originally CHARNOFSKY). They had seven children; three born in
Russia and the last four born in Providence.

Ethel LIDMAN (born ~1879) married to Nathan KANOFSKY. They had six
children, initially lived in Providence and eventually settled in Chicago
(about 1914).

There was also a Charles LIDMAN who was probably born about 1880. I do not
know who his parents were, but he settled in Fall River and married Ann
NULMAN about 1902. I believe they and their children died in the 1918 flu
epidemic. I am sure he is related to the other LIDMAN family but don't know
how.

There are several intermarriages between the LIDMAN/LITMAN family and my
NULMAN family. Amazingly, I have been unable to locate any manifests for
any of the three families, but I am particularly anxious to locate the
BORNSTEIN/BRAUNSTEIN manifest for Benjamin, Hida/Isa, Bessie and Sarah.
Supposedly they immigrated 1904. I'm hoping it holds some clues....to
something!

I also cannot locate census records for this family. I found marriage
records for both Bessie and Sarah. One's surname is listed as LIDMAN and
the other as BRAUNSTEIN!!

For those interested in LITMAN >from Kiev gubernia, if these families are
familiar to anyone I would love to hear >from you!

Many thanks for your time.
Linda Silverman Shefler
Hod HaSharon
linda.shefler@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LIDMAN or LITMAN Family from Kiev Gubernia #general

Linda Shefler
 

Up until recently I knew that the sister (Toby NULMAN) of my gg grandfather
had married a man named BORNSTEIN or BRAUNSTEIN. But it turns out that the
son of Toby and his family used that name when they immigrated to America at
the turn of the 20th century and their real name was LIDMAN or LITMAN.

I am attempting to properly piece together this disjointed LIDMAN/LITMAN
family that I believe is >from Kiev gubernia. The family might have come
from someplace around Fastov as they married into the NULMAN family from
Fastov. They settled at the turn of the 20th century in Fall River, MA and
Providence, RI.

This is what "I think" I know:
An Unknown LIDMAN married Toby NULMAN (probably around 1870).

They had three children that I am aware of:
Barnet (Benjamin) LIDMAN (born ~1870) who married Hida KOPIT/COPIT and had
daughters Bessie and Sarah (born ~1892).

Rose (Bobsy) LIDMAN (born ~1874) who married Wolf (William) CHARNOW
(probably originally CHARNOFSKY). They had seven children; three born in
Russia and the last four born in Providence.

Ethel LIDMAN (born ~1879) married to Nathan KANOFSKY. They had six
children, initially lived in Providence and eventually settled in Chicago
(about 1914).

There was also a Charles LIDMAN who was probably born about 1880. I do not
know who his parents were, but he settled in Fall River and married Ann
NULMAN about 1902. I believe they and their children died in the 1918 flu
epidemic. I am sure he is related to the other LIDMAN family but don't know
how.

There are several intermarriages between the LIDMAN/LITMAN family and my
NULMAN family. Amazingly, I have been unable to locate any manifests for
any of the three families, but I am particularly anxious to locate the
BORNSTEIN/BRAUNSTEIN manifest for Benjamin, Hida/Isa, Bessie and Sarah.
Supposedly they immigrated 1904. I'm hoping it holds some clues....to
something!

I also cannot locate census records for this family. I found marriage
records for both Bessie and Sarah. One's surname is listed as LIDMAN and
the other as BRAUNSTEIN!!

For those interested in LITMAN >from Kiev gubernia, if these families are
familiar to anyone I would love to hear >from you!

Many thanks for your time.
Linda Silverman Shefler
Hod HaSharon
linda.shefler@...


Re: Strategies for viewing and translating microfilm #general

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
 

Boris, your suggestions are excellent.

A bit more information on how I did it: When I asked my Russian-fluent friends
to write out the names in various ways, cursive, printed and not-perfect
writing, I also made sure to ask the oldest grandparents as well as the youngest
kids. The grandparents informed me of the 1918 spelling changes and included
those in their samples. Many of the grandparents also knew Yiddish and could
read Hebrew, so that also helped in a big way, although I had many fewer
problems with that side of the records.

Sometimes the younger kids'immature handwriting was easier to compare with
the records! And, of course, you are absolutely correct about the
chicken-scratch handwriting that seemed to be quite common.

Another idea I used was to look at the strange illegible handwritten name in
Hebrew and write it on paper trying to copy it using the letters I thought
they might be. Sometimes the clues to the name popped up that way, in strange
personal forms of certain letters.

On the other hand, it was a pleasure to see my ancestor, Rabbi Leib Talalai of
Mogilev, writing the 1837 birth record for his own son in his beautiful
Hebrew calligraphy. It really stood out on the page as a masterpiece of clarity.

And, as Boris states, as you go through these films with your handy-dandy cheat
sheet, do make copies of everything that looks like it --could-- be the name
in question, and take the pages along to your Russian-speaking friends to
decipher.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
Tracing the Tribe: The Jewish Genealogy Blog
http://tracingthetribe.blogspot.com
dardasht1@...
---
From: Boris Feldblyum <boris.feldblyum@...>

Expanding on Schelly Dardashti's excellent suggestions, it is important to
remember that reading old records is more about deciphering chicken-scratch
-like handwriting than translating, at least in the beginning, at the
library. While it is good idea to ask native Russian-speakers to write a name in
cursive, it is even better to photocopy it >from as many old records as possible.
Russian orthography was simplified in 1918, with several letter disappearing
as a result. Although the name Talalai is written today exactly as it was 100
years ago, other names, e.g. Ratner will have the letter called "yat'" at the
end (old Russian version of silent "e"), etc. It is also possible that a
name might be hyphenated when it did not fit into a column, e.g. Ta-lalai or
R-atner, etc., so the eye must be trained to recognize variations....(snip)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Strategies for viewing and translating microfilm #general

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
 

Boris, your suggestions are excellent.

A bit more information on how I did it: When I asked my Russian-fluent friends
to write out the names in various ways, cursive, printed and not-perfect
writing, I also made sure to ask the oldest grandparents as well as the youngest
kids. The grandparents informed me of the 1918 spelling changes and included
those in their samples. Many of the grandparents also knew Yiddish and could
read Hebrew, so that also helped in a big way, although I had many fewer
problems with that side of the records.

Sometimes the younger kids'immature handwriting was easier to compare with
the records! And, of course, you are absolutely correct about the
chicken-scratch handwriting that seemed to be quite common.

Another idea I used was to look at the strange illegible handwritten name in
Hebrew and write it on paper trying to copy it using the letters I thought
they might be. Sometimes the clues to the name popped up that way, in strange
personal forms of certain letters.

On the other hand, it was a pleasure to see my ancestor, Rabbi Leib Talalai of
Mogilev, writing the 1837 birth record for his own son in his beautiful
Hebrew calligraphy. It really stood out on the page as a masterpiece of clarity.

And, as Boris states, as you go through these films with your handy-dandy cheat
sheet, do make copies of everything that looks like it --could-- be the name
in question, and take the pages along to your Russian-speaking friends to
decipher.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
Tracing the Tribe: The Jewish Genealogy Blog
http://tracingthetribe.blogspot.com
dardasht1@...
---
From: Boris Feldblyum <boris.feldblyum@...>

Expanding on Schelly Dardashti's excellent suggestions, it is important to
remember that reading old records is more about deciphering chicken-scratch
-like handwriting than translating, at least in the beginning, at the
library. While it is good idea to ask native Russian-speakers to write a name in
cursive, it is even better to photocopy it >from as many old records as possible.
Russian orthography was simplified in 1918, with several letter disappearing
as a result. Although the name Talalai is written today exactly as it was 100
years ago, other names, e.g. Ratner will have the letter called "yat'" at the
end (old Russian version of silent "e"), etc. It is also possible that a
name might be hyphenated when it did not fit into a column, e.g. Ta-lalai or
R-atner, etc., so the eye must be trained to recognize variations....(snip)


Re: finding location of houses utilizing house numbers #general

roe kard
 

Renee Stevens asks: Is there any cross-reference >from these early
house numbers to today's street and house number?
I would love to know >from where you have gotten a current map of the
town. For me, in possession of no current maps outside of L'viv, this
is a perfect example of the importance of the Cadastral Maps and the
project being run by Gesher Galicia: if you have a photo of the
Cadastral map, you could look on it, find the house number, overlay
Google Earth, and GPS it. Poof!! You know exactly - *exactly* - where
the house was, even if, as is very likely in a place like Mosty, the
house itself is probably gone. (see our article on Geospatial
Genealogy in next issue of AVOTAYNU & presentation at IAJGS ) Maybe
you will be incredibly lucky and there actually is another way in this
particular town in Ukraine and the house is still there???

Good luck.

karen roekard
aka gitel chaye eta rosenfeld rokart (descendant of Reb Shmaryahu
HaLevi Shtuckler zt"l of Mosty Wielke)


Double marriage registration #general

AUBREY JACOBUS <aajacobus@...>
 

Can anyone think of a reason that an American marraige was registered twice
12 months apart .
The first marriage entry was conducted by a Rabbi

Aubrey Jacobus
London


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: finding location of houses utilizing house numbers #general

roe kard
 

Renee Stevens asks: Is there any cross-reference >from these early
house numbers to today's street and house number?
I would love to know >from where you have gotten a current map of the
town. For me, in possession of no current maps outside of L'viv, this
is a perfect example of the importance of the Cadastral Maps and the
project being run by Gesher Galicia: if you have a photo of the
Cadastral map, you could look on it, find the house number, overlay
Google Earth, and GPS it. Poof!! You know exactly - *exactly* - where
the house was, even if, as is very likely in a place like Mosty, the
house itself is probably gone. (see our article on Geospatial
Genealogy in next issue of AVOTAYNU & presentation at IAJGS ) Maybe
you will be incredibly lucky and there actually is another way in this
particular town in Ukraine and the house is still there???

Good luck.

karen roekard
aka gitel chaye eta rosenfeld rokart (descendant of Reb Shmaryahu
HaLevi Shtuckler zt"l of Mosty Wielke)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Double marriage registration #general

AUBREY JACOBUS <aajacobus@...>
 

Can anyone think of a reason that an American marraige was registered twice
12 months apart .
The first marriage entry was conducted by a Rabbi

Aubrey Jacobus
London


Information about a child given to the French Social Services. #general

Robert Neu
 

One of the last times I had a personal visit with my uncle he told me something
that had never been mentioned, at least to my ears. He indicated that one of
his sisters "Iboya Schlesinger" had given birth to a baby boy in Paris in 1935
that she had named "Henri" and had given the child up to the French Social
Services. He indicates that he had tried to find out anything afterwards, but
no information was forthcoming >from the authorities. The mother went back
to Hungary, and perished in the Holocaust, probably in Auschwitz.

Has anyone dealt with such a question, and is there any hope to find anything.

Any suggestion would be welcome.

Thanks
Robert Neu

Is there a French Sig. If so what is the correct email address ?

MODERATOR NOTE: Information about JewishGen SIGs can be found by going
to the JewishGen home page, <www.jewishgen.org>, and selecting "Special
Interest Groups (SIGs) under "Research". Each SIG has a mailing list,
to which only subscribers to that list may post.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Information about a child given to the French Social Services. #general

Robert Neu
 

One of the last times I had a personal visit with my uncle he told me something
that had never been mentioned, at least to my ears. He indicated that one of
his sisters "Iboya Schlesinger" had given birth to a baby boy in Paris in 1935
that she had named "Henri" and had given the child up to the French Social
Services. He indicates that he had tried to find out anything afterwards, but
no information was forthcoming >from the authorities. The mother went back
to Hungary, and perished in the Holocaust, probably in Auschwitz.

Has anyone dealt with such a question, and is there any hope to find anything.

Any suggestion would be welcome.

Thanks
Robert Neu

Is there a French Sig. If so what is the correct email address ?

MODERATOR NOTE: Information about JewishGen SIGs can be found by going
to the JewishGen home page, <www.jewishgen.org>, and selecting "Special
Interest Groups (SIGs) under "Research". Each SIG has a mailing list,
to which only subscribers to that list may post.