I've posted a vital record in Russian >from Piotrkow Trybunalski for
which I need extraction of all genealogical data. It is on ViewMate at
the following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71272
Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much.

Abba Caspi,
Manchester, Connecticut, USA

Searching ZELWER in Belchatow, Kolo, Piotrkow Trybunalski,
Tuszyn, Czestochowa;
NAJMARK / NEUMARK, BROMBERG in Przedborz, Piotrkow Trybunalski;
SZAFIR / SAFIR, ROZENBLAT in Tuszyn;
FRYDE in Kolo;
KUNIN, VINOKUROV, POGULYAEV, ELY, RIVKIN in Novozybkov;
KUNIN, FEIGIN in Rechytsa, Homyel.

I've posted a vital record in Russian >from Piotrkow Trybunalski for
which I need extraction of all genealogical data. It is on ViewMate at
the following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71272
Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much.

Abba Caspi,
Manchester, Connecticut, USA

Searching ZELWER in Belchatow, Kolo, Piotrkow Trybunalski,
Tuszyn, Czestochowa;
NAJMARK / NEUMARK, BROMBERG in Przedborz, Piotrkow Trybunalski;
SZAFIR / SAFIR, ROZENBLAT in Tuszyn;
FRYDE in Kolo;
KUNIN, VINOKUROV, POGULYAEV, ELY, RIVKIN in Novozybkov;
KUNIN, FEIGIN in Rechytsa, Homyel.

Hello All.

I have found over the years reaching out to this community to solve
the most obscure puzzles, more often than not, there is someone who
has a special knowledge and rises to solve the unsolvable problem.
So, I am now reaching out as many have before me.

A person contacted me because of my interest in the town of Subacius
Lithuania vis a vis Jewish Gen. They had reached their own brick wall
in their family research.

I had been far "luckier" in so far as there have been records for my family
branch taking my journey back to the late 1700s in Lithuania. I say
lucky because as many of you Litvak researchers know, Lithuanian records
can be sparse just at the moment when you need them most.

After some weeks we determined we might be just one generation away >from
linking her family to mine, i.e. our common branch.

I proposed she take a DNA test. So she did and the results indicated we
were indeed related to the degree where we thought our common link
might be. Her two brothers then took the test.

Her father was born in Subacius Lithuania in 1911. In that same year
his father passed away. The story goes, he had gone to America hoping
to eventually bring the rest of the family over, but he fell ill and died.
There is no found record for him yet in the United States.

After the outbreak of the first world war the family was expelled >from
Lithuania and did not return until the early 1920's and when Lithuania
became a sovereign state. Through passport records that still exist, we
learned her father with his mother's help and witnesses >from their town
had to appeal for and prove his citizenship. He was eventually successful
and received his internal passport papers.

In 1939 Lithuania lost its short lived sovereignty, becoming a vassal
state under the Soviet Union vis a vis the signing of the Hitler-Stalin
pact. By the summer of 1941, German forces arrived in Lithuania and her
father was forced into the Kowno Ghetto with his wife and young daughter.
They had married in 1935. (There is a record for that) (There is no
record yet found for the birth of the daughter) Through all of the
horror that was the Kowno Ghetto, they survived.

In the summer of 1944 her father was placed on a transport with his wife
and now 8/9 year old daughter. The transport stopped at KZ-Stutthof whee
his wife, and we presume also his daughter, were detained along with 280
other Jews >from Kowno. After Stutthof, her father was transported to
Dachau and specifically the sub camp Kaufering I. In the summer of 1945,
her father was free again. Approximately one month after her arrival at
Stutthof, his wife was sent to Auschwitz, where thus far, there is no
record of her there. At this moment we presume she went straight to her
death upon arrival. Of the daughter, still no record.

While recovering at the DP Hospital in the St. Otillien monastery near
Landsberg am Lech, Germany, her father met his second wife, also a survivor
of Dachau, originally >from Poland. They had their first child who died a
few days after birth and is buried at St. Otillien. They then had a second
child, a boy. Though their first choice was to go to Palestine, they
were, in 1949, resettled in Australia. After resettlement they had two
more children, a girl and a boy. It is the girl who has become my
correspondent in this story vis a vis Jewish gen and our common town
Subacious.

So, for the lack of a record, she and her brothers take a DNA test.
Her results come back first indicating we are indeed cousins of a kind.
Strangely though, we share as a common cluster, DNA relationships with
some of my "other" cousins >from another family branch (also originally
Lithuanian) and also with a dear friend of hers >from childhood in Australia.
Her dear friend's father, also resettled after the war, lived with her
parents for a time, then went to Israel where he married and then returned
to Australia. The results for her brothers come back and they show sh
is the half sibling of one, her brother born as she was in Australia, and
between the two of them show they are not related to their older brother,
the one born in Germany at St. Otillien.

In recent years there was a ceremony held at St. Otillien celebrating
the many babies born there to Jewish parents after the war.When the first
Jewish baby was born it is said that Jewish American soldiers came to the
bris and wept over both the sadness and the joy.100's of Jewish babies
were born at St. Otillien, so much life coming after so much death.
On this occasion, the son of a good family friend who was also born at
St. Otillien, invited the oldest brother in this family to go with
him to attend this ceremony. Their expenses were paid by St. Otillien
such was the importance of the occasion. There is a picture of her
father and this family friend taken at St. Otillien. The friend has
a remarkable resemblance to her older brother. She doesn't see it,
but somehow I do.

You can imagine quite easily the difficulties these results have created.
I theorize that some time between her father's time in the Kowno Ghetto
and his eventual release >from the work camps at Dachau, he became sterile
He met his wife at the displaced persons camp and a very special
place called St. Otillien where weekly a new birth was celebrated in a long
list of births numbering well over 400 Jewish babies after the horrors
suffered by their parents during the Shoah. My theory is, her father and
mother wanted a family and willingly sought a surrogate, first at St.
Otillien and then again in Australia. Making such a thing public today
would not be unusual, but in the late 1940's and early 1950's, one can
only guess how unusual that might have been. More DNA tests are being
performed.

However, the one fact that needs the most finding is: some proof, her
father was made sterile either by the Nazi's or in some other way.
I have found over the years now that I became a Genealogy researcher,
there is always the general story, like the story of the Shoah in all of
its chapters and versions, but it is not until one digs down into an
archive with a tweezer that the real story emerges in the way of pulling
a needle >from a haystack. So, perhaps there is at least one person on this
email list who has encountered an archive as yet not discovered by me, that
will have that needle to answer this question regarding my cousin's father's
sterility, and for that family, bring them peace regarding this question.
They will never lose the true family they had or their growing up with
the parents who parented them, but there is now something missing for
them, and maybe this is the thing that can make them whole as well as do
service to the heroic couple they knew as mom and da. So, if YOU are
re out there and can help with this brick wall of mine, please then reach
out to me. I will be grateful, as will they, for the help.

Regards

Joe Glass

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

Hello All.

I have found over the years reaching out to this community to solve
the most obscure puzzles, more often than not, there is someone who
has a special knowledge and rises to solve the unsolvable problem.
So, I am now reaching out as many have before me.

A person contacted me because of my interest in the town of Subacius
Lithuania vis a vis Jewish Gen. They had reached their own brick wall
in their family research.

I had been far "luckier" in so far as there have been records for my family
branch taking my journey back to the late 1700s in Lithuania. I say
lucky because as many of you Litvak researchers know, Lithuanian records
can be sparse just at the moment when you need them most.

After some weeks we determined we might be just one generation away >from
linking her family to mine, i.e. our common branch.

I proposed she take a DNA test. So she did and the results indicated we
were indeed related to the degree where we thought our common link
might be. Her two brothers then took the test.

Her father was born in Subacius Lithuania in 1911. In that same year
his father passed away. The story goes, he had gone to America hoping
to eventually bring the rest of the family over, but he fell ill and died.
There is no found record for him yet in the United States.

After the outbreak of the first world war the family was expelled >from
Lithuania and did not return until the early 1920's and when Lithuania
became a sovereign state. Through passport records that still exist, we
learned her father with his mother's help and witnesses >from their town
had to appeal for and prove his citizenship. He was eventually successful
and received his internal passport papers.

In 1939 Lithuania lost its short lived sovereignty, becoming a vassal
state under the Soviet Union vis a vis the signing of the Hitler-Stalin
pact. By the summer of 1941, German forces arrived in Lithuania and her
father was forced into the Kowno Ghetto with his wife and young daughter.
They had married in 1935. (There is a record for that) (There is no
record yet found for the birth of the daughter) Through all of the
horror that was the Kowno Ghetto, they survived.

In the summer of 1944 her father was placed on a transport with his wife
and now 8/9 year old daughter. The transport stopped at KZ-Stutthof whee
his wife, and we presume also his daughter, were detained along with 280
other Jews >from Kowno. After Stutthof, her father was transported to
Dachau and specifically the sub camp Kaufering I. In the summer of 1945,
her father was free again. Approximately one month after her arrival at
Stutthof, his wife was sent to Auschwitz, where thus far, there is no
record of her there. At this moment we presume she went straight to her
death upon arrival. Of the daughter, still no record.

While recovering at the DP Hospital in the St. Otillien monastery near
Landsberg am Lech, Germany, her father met his second wife, also a survivor
of Dachau, originally >from Poland. They had their first child who died a
few days after birth and is buried at St. Otillien. They then had a second
child, a boy. Though their first choice was to go to Palestine, they
were, in 1949, resettled in Australia. After resettlement they had two
more children, a girl and a boy. It is the girl who has become my
correspondent in this story vis a vis Jewish gen and our common town
Subacious.

So, for the lack of a record, she and her brothers take a DNA test.
Her results come back first indicating we are indeed cousins of a kind.
Strangely though, we share as a common cluster, DNA relationships with
some of my "other" cousins >from another family branch (also originally
Lithuanian) and also with a dear friend of hers >from childhood in Australia.
Her dear friend's father, also resettled after the war, lived with her
parents for a time, then went to Israel where he married and then returned
to Australia. The results for her brothers come back and they show sh
is the half sibling of one, her brother born as she was in Australia, and
between the two of them show they are not related to their older brother,
the one born in Germany at St. Otillien.

In recent years there was a ceremony held at St. Otillien celebrating
the many babies born there to Jewish parents after the war.When the first
Jewish baby was born it is said that Jewish American soldiers came to the
bris and wept over both the sadness and the joy.100's of Jewish babies
were born at St. Otillien, so much life coming after so much death.
On this occasion, the son of a good family friend who was also born at
St. Otillien, invited the oldest brother in this family to go with
him to attend this ceremony. Their expenses were paid by St. Otillien
such was the importance of the occasion. There is a picture of her
father and this family friend taken at St. Otillien. The friend has
a remarkable resemblance to her older brother. She doesn't see it,
but somehow I do.

You can imagine quite easily the difficulties these results have created.
I theorize that some time between her father's time in the Kowno Ghetto
and his eventual release >from the work camps at Dachau, he became sterile
He met his wife at the displaced persons camp and a very special
place called St. Otillien where weekly a new birth was celebrated in a long
list of births numbering well over 400 Jewish babies after the horrors
suffered by their parents during the Shoah. My theory is, her father and
mother wanted a family and willingly sought a surrogate, first at St.
Otillien and then again in Australia. Making such a thing public today
would not be unusual, but in the late 1940's and early 1950's, one can
only guess how unusual that might have been. More DNA tests are being
performed.

However, the one fact that needs the most finding is: some proof, her
father was made sterile either by the Nazi's or in some other way.
I have found over the years now that I became a Genealogy researcher,
there is always the general story, like the story of the Shoah in all of
its chapters and versions, but it is not until one digs down into an
archive with a tweezer that the real story emerges in the way of pulling
a needle >from a haystack. So, perhaps there is at least one person on this
email list who has encountered an archive as yet not discovered by me, that
will have that needle to answer this question regarding my cousin's father's
sterility, and for that family, bring them peace regarding this question.
They will never lose the true family they had or their growing up with
the parents who parented them, but there is now something missing for
them, and maybe this is the thing that can make them whole as well as do
service to the heroic couple they knew as mom and da. So, if YOU are
re out there and can help with this brick wall of mine, please then reach
out to me. I will be grateful, as will they, for the help.

Regards

Joe Glass

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

Yad Vashem Pages of Testimony for my great-aunt & uncle's family was
submitted by a Neighbor's Cousin named Beihla Kuzinetz [Don't know her
maiden name]. I am searching for Beihla's descendants to figure out her
specific relationship to my family.

My great aunt & uncle Isaac/Aizl & Fraidke Deutsch [Dajcz], their daughter
Cheinka Deutsch, their daughter Batia Deutsch Bukovitzki, son-in-law Avraham
Bukovitzki & grandchildren Khana & Rasha Bukovitzki were all murdered in an
Einsatzgruppen Aktion in Slonim, Belarus in 1942.

A researcher in Israel was able to find out Beihla Kuzinetz (1893-1977) &
husband Eliezar Kuzinetz (1886-1975) emigrated to Israel, Sept, 1951 & lived
in Haifa. A son Itzhak Barzilay (formerly Kuzinetz), b. 1932 emigrated to
Israel in 1964 and lived in Ashkelon. Itzhak Barzilay had two sons Sahy &
Izzy-Eliezer Barzilay. No other information was found & researcher suggested
sons may have emigrated???

If anyone is aware of this family or can suggest additional avenues of
research I'd be most grateful. My guess is Beihla may be a cousin of Avraham
Bukovitzki, as that's the only POT where she writes "Cousin" rather than
"Relative" or "Neighbor".

Please reply privately: Slaterd@bellsouth.net

David Slater
Atlanta, GA

Researching
SCHLACHTER, BARON, DROBIS/DROBIZ/DROBES, MORVITZ/MOFTEZ, IOFFE/YAFFE/JAFFE,
SKODOWITZ; - Kavarskas, Lithuania
DROBIS/DROBIZ/DROBES; - Anyksciai, Lithuania
SIMONSOHN/SIMSON, WEINSTEIN, WINBLER, SCHWARTZ; - Riga, Latvia
KRAUZE/KRAUSE, FIKSEL/FIXEL, WASILKOVSKY, WEISS, SPECTOR, KUPER/KOOPER,
JANOWSKY/JANO Bialystok, Poland

MODERATOR NOTE: Research list truncated at 6 lines in accordance with JewishGen
Discussion Group Rules.

Yad Vashem Pages of Testimony for my great-aunt & uncle's family was
submitted by a Neighbor's Cousin named Beihla Kuzinetz [Don't know her
maiden name]. I am searching for Beihla's descendants to figure out her
specific relationship to my family.

My great aunt & uncle Isaac/Aizl & Fraidke Deutsch [Dajcz], their daughter
Cheinka Deutsch, their daughter Batia Deutsch Bukovitzki, son-in-law Avraham
Bukovitzki & grandchildren Khana & Rasha Bukovitzki were all murdered in an
Einsatzgruppen Aktion in Slonim, Belarus in 1942.

A researcher in Israel was able to find out Beihla Kuzinetz (1893-1977) &
husband Eliezar Kuzinetz (1886-1975) emigrated to Israel, Sept, 1951 & lived
in Haifa. A son Itzhak Barzilay (formerly Kuzinetz), b. 1932 emigrated to
Israel in 1964 and lived in Ashkelon. Itzhak Barzilay had two sons Sahy &
Izzy-Eliezer Barzilay. No other information was found & researcher suggested
sons may have emigrated???

If anyone is aware of this family or can suggest additional avenues of
research I'd be most grateful. My guess is Beihla may be a cousin of Avraham
Bukovitzki, as that's the only POT where she writes "Cousin" rather than
"Relative" or "Neighbor".

Please reply privately: Slaterd@bellsouth.net

David Slater
Atlanta, GA

Researching
SCHLACHTER, BARON, DROBIS/DROBIZ/DROBES, MORVITZ/MOFTEZ, IOFFE/YAFFE/JAFFE,
SKODOWITZ; - Kavarskas, Lithuania
DROBIS/DROBIZ/DROBES; - Anyksciai, Lithuania
SIMONSOHN/SIMSON, WEINSTEIN, WINBLER, SCHWARTZ; - Riga, Latvia
KRAUZE/KRAUSE, FIKSEL/FIXEL, WASILKOVSKY, WEISS, SPECTOR, KUPER/KOOPER,
JANOWSKY/JANO Bialystok, Poland

MODERATOR NOTE: Research list truncated at 6 lines in accordance with JewishGen
Discussion Group Rules.

During December 1944 and January 1945 20,000 Jews in Hungary were taken from
the Budapest ghetto and ordered to remove their shoes and then murdered on
the banks of the Danube. Their bodies were dumped in the Danube after being
shot. There is a permanent memorial of 60 pairs of shoes, "Shoes of the
Danube" made of iron on the bank of the river marking the mass execution.

Hungarian and Israeli divers will jointly search for the bones of Jews
murdered on the banks of the Danube. ZAKA, a Hungarian emergency service and
victim identification organization announced divers will have sonar
equipment. Seventy-five years later it is unknown whether the bones will be
found, but if they are, Israeli Interior Minister Deri said the remains will
be brought to Israel for burial. In 2011, human remains were discovered
during construction work on a bridge overlooking the Danube. DNA tests
indicated that they belonged to 20 different people. Results showed the
majority were Ashkenazi Jews >from Europe . Those remains were buried in a
Jewish cemetery in Budapest.

The Jews were murdered by the Arrow Cross Party which was the fascist party
that controlled the Hungarian government >from October 1944 to April 1945.
When the Nazis occupied Hungary and set up a collaborationist government in
March 1944 the Arrow Cross party received official approval >from the new
government. Previously it was not as well recognized although starting in
1939 it was the second most popular party.

During the Holocaust 600,000 Hungarian Jews were murdered, mostly in the
German concentration camps.

See: https://tinyurl.com/y9dfdy95
Original url:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-divers-to-search-for-holocaust-victims-remains-in-hungary-river/

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee

During December 1944 and January 1945 20,000 Jews in Hungary were taken from
the Budapest ghetto and ordered to remove their shoes and then murdered on
the banks of the Danube. Their bodies were dumped in the Danube after being
shot. There is a permanent memorial of 60 pairs of shoes, "Shoes of the
Danube" made of iron on the bank of the river marking the mass execution.

Hungarian and Israeli divers will jointly search for the bones of Jews
murdered on the banks of the Danube. ZAKA, a Hungarian emergency service and
victim identification organization announced divers will have sonar
equipment. Seventy-five years later it is unknown whether the bones will be
found, but if they are, Israeli Interior Minister Deri said the remains will
be brought to Israel for burial. In 2011, human remains were discovered
during construction work on a bridge overlooking the Danube. DNA tests
indicated that they belonged to 20 different people. Results showed the
majority were Ashkenazi Jews >from Europe . Those remains were buried in a
Jewish cemetery in Budapest.

The Jews were murdered by the Arrow Cross Party which was the fascist party
that controlled the Hungarian government >from October 1944 to April 1945.
When the Nazis occupied Hungary and set up a collaborationist government in
March 1944 the Arrow Cross party received official approval >from the new
government. Previously it was not as well recognized although starting in
1939 it was the second most popular party.

During the Holocaust 600,000 Hungarian Jews were murdered, mostly in the
German concentration camps.

See: https://tinyurl.com/y9dfdy95
Original url:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-divers-to-search-for-holocaust-victims-remains-in-hungary-river/

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee

I've posted a vital record in Russian for which I need extraction of all
genealogical data. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71272

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much.


Abba Caspi,
Manchester, Connecticut, USA

Searching ZELWER in Belchatow, Piotrkow Trybunalski,
Tuszyn, Czestochowa;
NAJMARK / NEUMARK, BROMBERG in Przedborz, Piotrkow Trybunalski;
SZAFIR / SAFIR, ROZENBLAT in Tuszyn;
FRYDE in Kolo;
KUNIN, VINOKUROV, POGULYAEV, ELY, RIVKIN in Novozybkov;
KUNIN, FEIGIN in Rechytsa, Homyel.

I've posted a vital record in Russian for which I need extraction of all
genealogical data. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71272

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much.


Abba Caspi,
Manchester, Connecticut, USA

Searching ZELWER in Belchatow, Piotrkow Trybunalski,
Tuszyn, Czestochowa;
NAJMARK / NEUMARK, BROMBERG in Przedborz, Piotrkow Trybunalski;
SZAFIR / SAFIR, ROZENBLAT in Tuszyn;
FRYDE in Kolo;
KUNIN, VINOKUROV, POGULYAEV, ELY, RIVKIN in Novozybkov;
KUNIN, FEIGIN in Rechytsa, Homyel.

I've posted a vital record in Polish and two records in Russian for
which I need a translation. They are on ViewMate at the following
address ...

Russian
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71146
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71185

Polish
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71177

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you in advance for your valuable time and help.

Nomi Fiszenfeld Waksberg

Researching Family Names:
FISZENFLED, BRAUN, FRYDMAN, ZINGER, ELWIG, WOLKOWICZ,
RYGIEL, WAKSBERG, ROZENBLAT, SLUPSKA, RYGIEL, KLAJNBART

I've posted a vital record in Polish and two records in Russian for
which I need a translation. They are on ViewMate at the following
address ...

Russian
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71146
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71185

Polish
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71177

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you in advance for your valuable time and help.

Nomi Fiszenfeld Waksberg

Researching Family Names:
FISZENFLED, BRAUN, FRYDMAN, ZINGER, ELWIG, WOLKOWICZ,
RYGIEL, WAKSBERG, ROZENBLAT, SLUPSKA, RYGIEL, KLAJNBART

I've posted vital records in Russian (71212 71214) and Polish (71215)
for which I need a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following
address...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71215
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71214
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71212

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you very much.
Robert Leifer,
Monsey NY USA

I've posted vital records in Russian (71212 71214) and Polish (71215)
for which I need a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following
address...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71215
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71214
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71212

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you very much.
Robert Leifer,
Monsey NY USA

Hello,

I've posted three vital records on ViewMate and I need translations for them.

Death record for Josef TOREM, in Russian:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71239

Marriage record of Necha TOREM and Moshe GLICK in Polish:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=70827

Marriage record of Matla TOREM and Nojech LUSTYKMAN in Russian:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71240

I would be very grateful if anyone can please help me out with this.

Many thanks,
Raphael Thurm

Hello,

I've posted three vital records on ViewMate and I need translations for them.

Death record for Josef TOREM, in Russian:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71239

Marriage record of Necha TOREM and Moshe GLICK in Polish:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=70827

Marriage record of Matla TOREM and Nojech LUSTYKMAN in Russian:
https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71240

I would be very grateful if anyone can please help me out with this.

Many thanks,
Raphael Thurm

Hello All.

I have found over the years reaching out to this community to solve the most
obscure puzzles, more often than not, there is someone who has a special
knowledge and rises to solve the unsolvable problem. So, I am now reaching
out as many have before me.

A person contacted me because of my interest in the town of Subacius Lithuania
vis a vis Jewish Gen. They had reached their own brick wall in their family
research.

I had been far "luckier" in so far as there have been records for my family
branch taking my journey back to the late 1700s in Lithuania. I say lucky
because as many of you Litvak researchers know, Lithuanian records can be
sparse just at the moment when you need them most.

After some weeks we determined we might be just one generation away >from
linking her family to mine, i.e. our common branch.

I proposed she take a DNA test. So she did and the results indicated we were
indeed related to the degree where we thought our common link might be. Her
two brothers then took the test.

Her father was born in Subacius Lithuania in 1911. In that same year his
father passed away. The story goes, he had gone to America hoping to
eventually bring the rest of the family over, but he fell ill and died. There
is no found record for him yet in the United States.

After the outbreak of the first world war the family was expelled >from
Lithuania and did not return until the early 1920's and when Lithuania became
a sovereign state. Through passport records that still exist, we learned her
father with his mother's help and witnesses >from their town had to appeal for
and prove his citizenship. He was eventually successful and received his
internal passport papers.

In 1939 Lithuania lost its short lived sovereignty, becoming a vassal state
under the Soviet Union vis a vis the signing of the Hitler-Stalin pact. By
the summer of 1941, German forces arrived in Lithuania and her father was
forced into the Kowno Ghetto with his wife and young daughter. They had
married in 1935. (There is a record for that) (There is no record yet found
for the birth of the daughter). Through all of the horror that was the Kowno
Ghetto, they survived.

In the summer of 1944 her father was placed on a transport with his wife and
now 8/9 year old daughter. The transport stopped at KZ-Stutthof where his
wife, and we presume also his daughter, were detained along with 280 other
Jews >from Kowno. After Stutthof, her father was transported to Dachau and
specifically the sub camp Kaufering I. In the summer of 1945, her father was
free again. Approximately one month after her arrival at Stuffhof, his wife
was sent to Auschwitz, where thus far, there is no record of her there. At
this moment we presume she went straight to her death upon arrival. Of the
daughter, still no record.

While recovering at the DP Hospital in the St. Otillien monastery near
Landsberg am Lech, Germany, her father met his second wife, also a survivor
of Dachau, originally >from Poland. They had their first child who died a
few days after birth and is buried at St. Otillien. They then had a second
child, a boy. Though their first choice was to go to Palestine, they were,
in 1949, resettled in Australia. After resettlement they had two more
children, a girl and a boy. It is the girl who has become my correspondent
in this story vis a vis Jewish gen and our common town Subacious.

So, for the lack of a record, she and her brothers take a DNA test. Her
results come back first indicating we are indeed cousins of a kind.
Strangely though, we share as a common cluster, DNA relationships with some
of my "other" cousins >from another family branch (also originally Lithuanian)
and also with a dear friend of hers >from childhood in Australia. Her dear
friend's father, also resettled after the war, lived with her parents for a
time, then went to Israel where he married and then returned to Australia.
The results for her brothers come back and they show she is the half sibling
of one, her brother born as she was in Australia, and between the two of them
show they are not related to their older brother, the one born in Germany at
St. Otillien.

In recent years there was a ceremony held at St. Otillien celebrating the
many babies born there to Jewish parents after the war. When the first Jewish
baby was born it is said that Jewish American soldiers came to the bris and
wept over both the sadness and the joy. 100's of Jewish babies were born at
St. Otillien, so much life coming after so much death. On this occasion, the
son of a good family friend who was also born at St. Otillien, invited the
oldest brother in this family to go with him to attend this ceremony. Their
expenses were paid by St. Otillien such was the importance of the occasion.
There is a picture of her father and this family friend taken at St. Otillien.
The friend has a remarkable resemblance to her older brother. She doesn't
see it, but somehow I do.

You can imagine quite easily the difficulties these results have created. I
theorize that some time between her father's time in the Kowno Ghetto and
his eventual release >from the work camps at Dachau, he became sterile. He
met his wife at the displaced persons camp and a very special place called
St. Otillien where weekly a new birth was celebrated in a long list of
births numbering well over 400 Jewish babies after the horrors suffered by
their parents during the Shoah. My theory is, her father and mother wanted
a family and willingly sought a surrogate, first at St. Otillien and then
again in Australia. Making such a thing public today would not be unusual,
but in the late 1940's and early 1950's, one can only guess how unusual that
might have been. More DNA tests are being performed.

However, the one fact that needs the most finding is: some proof, her father
was made sterile either by the Nazi's or in some other way. I have found
over the years now that I became a Genealogy researcher, there is always the
general story, like the story of the Shoah in all of its chapters and
versions, but it is not until one digs down into an archive with a tweezer
that the real story emerges in the way of pulling a needle >from a haystack.
So, perhaps there is at least one person on this email list who has
encountered an archive as yet not discovered by me, that will have that
needle to answer this question regarding my cousin's father's sterility,
and for that family, bring them peace regarding this question. They will
never lose the true family they had or their growing up with the parents
who parented them, but there is now something missing for them, and maybe
this is the thing that can make them whole as well as do service to the
heroic couple they knew as mom and dad. So, if **you** are out there and
can help with this brick wall of mine, please then reach out to me. I
will be grateful, as will they, for the help.

Regards

Joe Glass

MODERATOR NOTE: This story brings up many questions about evaluating DNA results.
Please keep discussion on this discussion group to other types of genealogical
records. For further discussion of DNA testing, please carry on at the DNA
testing list.

Hello All.

I have found over the years reaching out to this community to solve the most
obscure puzzles, more often than not, there is someone who has a special
knowledge and rises to solve the unsolvable problem. So, I am now reaching
out as many have before me.

A person contacted me because of my interest in the town of Subacius Lithuania
vis a vis Jewish Gen. They had reached their own brick wall in their family
research.

I had been far "luckier" in so far as there have been records for my family
branch taking my journey back to the late 1700s in Lithuania. I say lucky
because as many of you Litvak researchers know, Lithuanian records can be
sparse just at the moment when you need them most.

After some weeks we determined we might be just one generation away >from
linking her family to mine, i.e. our common branch.

I proposed she take a DNA test. So she did and the results indicated we were
indeed related to the degree where we thought our common link might be. Her
two brothers then took the test.

Her father was born in Subacius Lithuania in 1911. In that same year his
father passed away. The story goes, he had gone to America hoping to
eventually bring the rest of the family over, but he fell ill and died. There
is no found record for him yet in the United States.

After the outbreak of the first world war the family was expelled >from
Lithuania and did not return until the early 1920's and when Lithuania became
a sovereign state. Through passport records that still exist, we learned her
father with his mother's help and witnesses >from their town had to appeal for
and prove his citizenship. He was eventually successful and received his
internal passport papers.

In 1939 Lithuania lost its short lived sovereignty, becoming a vassal state
under the Soviet Union vis a vis the signing of the Hitler-Stalin pact. By
the summer of 1941, German forces arrived in Lithuania and her father was
forced into the Kowno Ghetto with his wife and young daughter. They had
married in 1935. (There is a record for that) (There is no record yet found
for the birth of the daughter). Through all of the horror that was the Kowno
Ghetto, they survived.

In the summer of 1944 her father was placed on a transport with his wife and
now 8/9 year old daughter. The transport stopped at KZ-Stutthof where his
wife, and we presume also his daughter, were detained along with 280 other
Jews >from Kowno. After Stutthof, her father was transported to Dachau and
specifically the sub camp Kaufering I. In the summer of 1945, her father was
free again. Approximately one month after her arrival at Stuffhof, his wife
was sent to Auschwitz, where thus far, there is no record of her there. At
this moment we presume she went straight to her death upon arrival. Of the
daughter, still no record.

While recovering at the DP Hospital in the St. Otillien monastery near
Landsberg am Lech, Germany, her father met his second wife, also a survivor
of Dachau, originally >from Poland. They had their first child who died a
few days after birth and is buried at St. Otillien. They then had a second
child, a boy. Though their first choice was to go to Palestine, they were,
in 1949, resettled in Australia. After resettlement they had two more
children, a girl and a boy. It is the girl who has become my correspondent
in this story vis a vis Jewish gen and our common town Subacious.

So, for the lack of a record, she and her brothers take a DNA test. Her
results come back first indicating we are indeed cousins of a kind.
Strangely though, we share as a common cluster, DNA relationships with some
of my "other" cousins >from another family branch (also originally Lithuanian)
and also with a dear friend of hers >from childhood in Australia. Her dear
friend's father, also resettled after the war, lived with her parents for a
time, then went to Israel where he married and then returned to Australia.
The results for her brothers come back and they show she is the half sibling
of one, her brother born as she was in Australia, and between the two of them
show they are not related to their older brother, the one born in Germany at
St. Otillien.

In recent years there was a ceremony held at St. Otillien celebrating the
many babies born there to Jewish parents after the war. When the first Jewish
baby was born it is said that Jewish American soldiers came to the bris and
wept over both the sadness and the joy. 100's of Jewish babies were born at
St. Otillien, so much life coming after so much death. On this occasion, the
son of a good family friend who was also born at St. Otillien, invited the
oldest brother in this family to go with him to attend this ceremony. Their
expenses were paid by St. Otillien such was the importance of the occasion.
There is a picture of her father and this family friend taken at St. Otillien.
The friend has a remarkable resemblance to her older brother. She doesn't
see it, but somehow I do.

You can imagine quite easily the difficulties these results have created. I
theorize that some time between her father's time in the Kowno Ghetto and
his eventual release >from the work camps at Dachau, he became sterile. He
met his wife at the displaced persons camp and a very special place called
St. Otillien where weekly a new birth was celebrated in a long list of
births numbering well over 400 Jewish babies after the horrors suffered by
their parents during the Shoah. My theory is, her father and mother wanted
a family and willingly sought a surrogate, first at St. Otillien and then
again in Australia. Making such a thing public today would not be unusual,
but in the late 1940's and early 1950's, one can only guess how unusual that
might have been. More DNA tests are being performed.

However, the one fact that needs the most finding is: some proof, her father
was made sterile either by the Nazi's or in some other way. I have found
over the years now that I became a Genealogy researcher, there is always the
general story, like the story of the Shoah in all of its chapters and
versions, but it is not until one digs down into an archive with a tweezer
that the real story emerges in the way of pulling a needle >from a haystack.
So, perhaps there is at least one person on this email list who has
encountered an archive as yet not discovered by me, that will have that
needle to answer this question regarding my cousin's father's sterility,
and for that family, bring them peace regarding this question. They will
never lose the true family they had or their growing up with the parents
who parented them, but there is now something missing for them, and maybe
this is the thing that can make them whole as well as do service to the
heroic couple they knew as mom and dad. So, if **you** are out there and
can help with this brick wall of mine, please then reach out to me. I
will be grateful, as will they, for the help.

Regards

Joe Glass

MODERATOR NOTE: This story brings up many questions about evaluating DNA results.
Please keep discussion on this discussion group to other types of genealogical
records. For further discussion of DNA testing, please carry on at the DNA
testing list.

Hi,

I've posted two vital records in Polish for which I'd like a translation.
It is on ViewMate at the following addresses:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71249
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71248

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thanks in advance,
Steven Zedeck

Hi,

I've posted two vital records in Polish for which I'd like a translation.
It is on ViewMate at the following addresses:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71249
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM71248

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thanks in advance,
Steven Zedeck