Date   
Re: Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

rayvenna@...
 

Lara Diamond has been working on a project for Ashkenazi Jews.
Initial results can be found here:
https://larasgenealogy.blogspot.com/2018/02/ashkenazic-jewish-shared-dna-survey.html
[or https://tinyurl.com/yajqt2ol --Mod.]

Information on how to contribute is here:
https://larasgenealogy.blogspot.com/2018/01/ashkenazic-jewish-shared-dna-survey.html
[or https://tinyurl.com/ydc3pyqn --Mod.]

She also asks for information about known double relationships.

I do like the idea of establishing your own "norm" within your own
genetic lines, but it is insanely time consuming. I'm working on a
spreadsheet comparing all of my kits now. It's revealing some
fascinating information, but it's also taking a *lot* of work.

Mindie Kaplan
Montgomery Village, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Davis martindavis@..." <dna@...>
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 6:18:42 AM

...
According to Blaine Bettinger's graph ( >from the autosomal Shared cM
Project - see https://i.stack.imgur.com/yJDKx.png), you would expect to
see an average of 79cM shared with a single third cousin and the sharing
can vary >from 0 to 198cM in total. That may increase, possibly even double,
when the third cousin has 'reinforcement' >from both the maternal and
paternal lines (logically it should lift the third cousin to a variety of
second cousin - again reference the Bettinger graph). But...

DNA Research #DNA Re: Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

rayvenna@...
 

Lara Diamond has been working on a project for Ashkenazi Jews.
Initial results can be found here:
https://larasgenealogy.blogspot.com/2018/02/ashkenazic-jewish-shared-dna-survey.html
[or https://tinyurl.com/yajqt2ol --Mod.]

Information on how to contribute is here:
https://larasgenealogy.blogspot.com/2018/01/ashkenazic-jewish-shared-dna-survey.html
[or https://tinyurl.com/ydc3pyqn --Mod.]

She also asks for information about known double relationships.

I do like the idea of establishing your own "norm" within your own
genetic lines, but it is insanely time consuming. I'm working on a
spreadsheet comparing all of my kits now. It's revealing some
fascinating information, but it's also taking a *lot* of work.

Mindie Kaplan
Montgomery Village, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Davis martindavis@..." <dna@...>
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 6:18:42 AM

...
According to Blaine Bettinger's graph ( >from the autosomal Shared cM
Project - see https://i.stack.imgur.com/yJDKx.png), you would expect to
see an average of 79cM shared with a single third cousin and the sharing
can vary >from 0 to 198cM in total. That may increase, possibly even double,
when the third cousin has 'reinforcement' >from both the maternal and
paternal lines (logically it should lift the third cousin to a variety of
second cousin - again reference the Bettinger graph). But...

Re: Ancestry Matches #dna

Adam Cherson
 

Dear David,

Having been in a number of similar situations myself, I can only say
that in most cases the 'fog' is caused by my own (and that of my
co-researchers) lack of knowledge of the historical facts surrounding
our heritages. The dna doesn't lie... Clearly there is a mystery there.
Your job is to solve the case.

The first thing I would try to do is determine whether you are related
through her maternal or paternal sides. There are a number of techniques
and tests which can help in this regard and there is no time to explain
those here. If you are lucky enough to be related through her mother,
then there may be a documentary trail you can pick up. Otherwise, things
will be much more difficult since you will be confronted with an
investigation into the biological parents of her adopted father.

Take it one step at a time and keep seeking expert advice along the way.

Best Wishes,
Adam Cherson

---
From: "David Goldman" <lugman@...>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 13:26:47 -0400

I am totally new to the issue of the DNA testing
(and just read some article online about who can get access to DNA
information >from genealogy research). I got my matches, and have contacted a
number of people who also did the Ancestry test. Only a couple have so far
replied, but one of them was classified as an "extremely high match" and I
saw the closeness based on having 204 centimorgans over 8 segments. Well, we
corresponded, and she told me that her mother's side was >from England/Wales,
and her father (who was adopted) had origins supposedly in the Balkans. The
only thing we had in common was that she lived in Alberta and I was born
there myself.
Can someone shed some light on this fog? How can this demonstrate an
"extremely high" likelihood of being 2nd-3rd cousins when there were no
common geographic origins at all?

DNA Research #DNA RE: Ancestry Matches #dna

Adam Cherson
 

Dear David,

Having been in a number of similar situations myself, I can only say
that in most cases the 'fog' is caused by my own (and that of my
co-researchers) lack of knowledge of the historical facts surrounding
our heritages. The dna doesn't lie... Clearly there is a mystery there.
Your job is to solve the case.

The first thing I would try to do is determine whether you are related
through her maternal or paternal sides. There are a number of techniques
and tests which can help in this regard and there is no time to explain
those here. If you are lucky enough to be related through her mother,
then there may be a documentary trail you can pick up. Otherwise, things
will be much more difficult since you will be confronted with an
investigation into the biological parents of her adopted father.

Take it one step at a time and keep seeking expert advice along the way.

Best Wishes,
Adam Cherson

---
From: "David Goldman" <lugman@...>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 13:26:47 -0400

I am totally new to the issue of the DNA testing
(and just read some article online about who can get access to DNA
information >from genealogy research). I got my matches, and have contacted a
number of people who also did the Ancestry test. Only a couple have so far
replied, but one of them was classified as an "extremely high match" and I
saw the closeness based on having 204 centimorgans over 8 segments. Well, we
corresponded, and she told me that her mother's side was >from England/Wales,
and her father (who was adopted) had origins supposedly in the Balkans. The
only thing we had in common was that she lived in Alberta and I was born
there myself.
Can someone shed some light on this fog? How can this demonstrate an
"extremely high" likelihood of being 2nd-3rd cousins when there were no
common geographic origins at all?

Else KNEDL (?Elsie KENDALL?) #general

tfanders@...
 

Dear Genners,

My gAunt Elsa Knedl, born in Vienna on April 14, 1892 survived WW II
hidden in Vienna. She came to the U.S. in 1947 and became a citizen in
1952. She lived her life in Buffalo at *** Delavan Ave, I am trying to
fin out the date of her death and whether she married and had a family.
She was married in Vienna but her husband, Julius Knedl died in 1930.
In 1957 (age 65) she filed a SocSec claim. A note on that claim is dated
Oct. 1976. Perhaps this marks the date of her death, perhaps at the age
of 84. Might someone be able to help me find a Buffalo obituary or death
notice and the associated information. I have tried numerous online
searches without success. Many thanks.

Tom Anders

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Else KNEDL (?Elsie KENDALL?) #general

tfanders@...
 

Dear Genners,

My gAunt Elsa Knedl, born in Vienna on April 14, 1892 survived WW II
hidden in Vienna. She came to the U.S. in 1947 and became a citizen in
1952. She lived her life in Buffalo at *** Delavan Ave, I am trying to
fin out the date of her death and whether she married and had a family.
She was married in Vienna but her husband, Julius Knedl died in 1930.
In 1957 (age 65) she filed a SocSec claim. A note on that claim is dated
Oct. 1976. Perhaps this marks the date of her death, perhaps at the age
of 84. Might someone be able to help me find a Buffalo obituary or death
notice and the associated information. I have tried numerous online
searches without success. Many thanks.

Tom Anders

Re: Are most WEILLs leviyim? #rabbinic

David Seldner
 

The Korban Netanel was not a levi. In Dr. Leopold Loewenstein's book about
Rabbi Nathanael Weil >from 1898 there is nothing written about a possible
levite ancestry. Since I was very involved with the Korban Netanel I am
sure I would know about this.

David Seldner, Karlsruhe

-----Original Message-----
From: tom <tomk@...>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 10:12:55 -0400

A quick glance at the title pages of his books online,
<http://www.hebrewbooks.org/30659>,
and at his gravestone
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Die_Vorderseite_des_Grabsteines_auf_de
m_Grab_Rabbi_Nathanael_Weil,_2013.JPG>,
show no mention of his being a levite. (You might be mistaking "zt'l",
"zikhron tzadik livrakhah", for indicating a levite?)

....... tom klein, toronto

Bernard Weill <linktree@...> wrote:

Often times i am asked if i am related to the Korban Nesanel (a
commentary on the Talmud) and i am quick to answer no because i believe
the korban nesanel was a levi (levite) whereas i am not a levi...

Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic RE: Are most WEILLs leviyim? #rabbinic

David Seldner
 

The Korban Netanel was not a levi. In Dr. Leopold Loewenstein's book about
Rabbi Nathanael Weil >from 1898 there is nothing written about a possible
levite ancestry. Since I was very involved with the Korban Netanel I am
sure I would know about this.

David Seldner, Karlsruhe

-----Original Message-----
From: tom <tomk@...>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 10:12:55 -0400

A quick glance at the title pages of his books online,
<http://www.hebrewbooks.org/30659>,
and at his gravestone
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Die_Vorderseite_des_Grabsteines_auf_de
m_Grab_Rabbi_Nathanael_Weil,_2013.JPG>,
show no mention of his being a levite. (You might be mistaking "zt'l",
"zikhron tzadik livrakhah", for indicating a levite?)

....... tom klein, toronto

Bernard Weill <linktree@...> wrote:

Often times i am asked if i am related to the Korban Nesanel (a
commentary on the Talmud) and i am quick to answer no because i believe
the korban nesanel was a levi (levite) whereas i am not a levi...

Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

Martin Davis (com)
 

Adam Cherson wrote: Wondering if anyone has done dna comparisons between
double-cousin relatives. For instance, supposing I have a third cousin
whose parents are first cousins? How much more gene sharing is there
between me and my third cousin than there would be otherwise? Can I just
double the expected gene-sharing range since he is my third cousin in
two ways?

According to Blaine Bettinger's graph ( >from the autosomal Shared cM
Project - see https://i.stack.imgur.com/yJDKx.png), you would expect to
see an average of 79cM shared with a single third cousin and the sharing
can vary >from 0 to 198cM in total. That may increase, possibly even double,
when the third cousin has 'reinforcement' >from both the maternal and
paternal lines (logically it should lift the third cousin to a variety of
second cousin - again reference the Bettinger graph). But......

1) Endogamy skews the statistics and so Jewish people almost automatically
share a segment or two, three, four with other Jewish people. So you need
to establish your own "norm" for segment matches.
2) Genetic recombinations place third cousins at the limit of automatic
acceptance of identical by descent (IBD) without need for triangulation
with other kits.

Martin Davis
London (UK)

DNA Research #DNA Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

Martin Davis (com)
 

Adam Cherson wrote: Wondering if anyone has done dna comparisons between
double-cousin relatives. For instance, supposing I have a third cousin
whose parents are first cousins? How much more gene sharing is there
between me and my third cousin than there would be otherwise? Can I just
double the expected gene-sharing range since he is my third cousin in
two ways?

According to Blaine Bettinger's graph ( >from the autosomal Shared cM
Project - see https://i.stack.imgur.com/yJDKx.png), you would expect to
see an average of 79cM shared with a single third cousin and the sharing
can vary >from 0 to 198cM in total. That may increase, possibly even double,
when the third cousin has 'reinforcement' >from both the maternal and
paternal lines (logically it should lift the third cousin to a variety of
second cousin - again reference the Bettinger graph). But......

1) Endogamy skews the statistics and so Jewish people almost automatically
share a segment or two, three, four with other Jewish people. So you need
to establish your own "norm" for segment matches.
2) Genetic recombinations place third cousins at the limit of automatic
acceptance of identical by descent (IBD) without need for triangulation
with other kits.

Martin Davis
London (UK)

Tiraspol KehilaLinks - News #bessarabia

Inna Vayner
 

Dear Tiraspol Researchers,

I wanted to let you know about a new addition to Tiraspol KehilaLinks
site. We now have a section dedicated to Family Search under Research
tab, where everyone can ask for help with research and post about
their families and specific family members, and add corresponding
photos and documents.

Please feel free to send me your family research information if you'd
like it to be included on the KehilaLinks site and check entries that
have been already posted.

https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/tiraspol/default.asp

Inna Vayner
Bessarabia SIG coordinator
Tiraspol and Grigoriopol KehilaLinks owner

**************************************************
Researching Vayner/Wainer/Weiner, Studinovskiy, Sheinfeld , Maizler,
Dekhtyar/Dechtyar/Dechter, Sobol >from Tiraspol, Nezavertailvoka,
Kishinev, and Odessa.
***************************************************
Please join us on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Bessarabian.Moldavian.Jewishroots/

Bessarabia SIG #Bessarabia Tiraspol KehilaLinks - News #bessarabia

Inna Vayner
 

Dear Tiraspol Researchers,

I wanted to let you know about a new addition to Tiraspol KehilaLinks
site. We now have a section dedicated to Family Search under Research
tab, where everyone can ask for help with research and post about
their families and specific family members, and add corresponding
photos and documents.

Please feel free to send me your family research information if you'd
like it to be included on the KehilaLinks site and check entries that
have been already posted.

https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/tiraspol/default.asp

Inna Vayner
Bessarabia SIG coordinator
Tiraspol and Grigoriopol KehilaLinks owner

**************************************************
Researching Vayner/Wainer/Weiner, Studinovskiy, Sheinfeld , Maizler,
Dekhtyar/Dechtyar/Dechter, Sobol >from Tiraspol, Nezavertailvoka,
Kishinev, and Odessa.
***************************************************
Please join us on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Bessarabian.Moldavian.Jewishroots/

May 17: Searching for Jewish Heritage with Joseph Berger at the Center for Jewish History in New York #general

Moriah Amit
 

Please join us for the following program, presented by the Center for
Jewish History, Ackman & Ziff Family Genealogy Institute, and YIVO
Institute for Jewish Research.

First Person: Jewish Stories, Jewish Lives: Searching for Jewish Heritage
with Joseph Berger
Date: May 17, 6:30 PM
Place: Center for Jewish History, 15 West 16th Street, New York, NY 10011
Description: After his parents died, Joseph Berger and his sister went
back to Poland and visited their parents' childhood homes for the first
time. What they discovered on their "roots journey" was both emotional
and surprising.
Mr. Berger, a former New York Times reporter, and the author of the
acclaimed memoir, Displaced Persons: Growing up American after the
Holocaust, will share stories and photos >from his fascinating journey
and offers tips for successful family searches abroad. Reflecting on the
current political climate in Poland and how it might impact a similar
journey today, he will be joined by Jonathan Ornstein, Executive Director
of the JCC in Krakow, and Helise Lieberman, Director of the Taube Center
for the Renewal of Jewish Life in Poland.
Tickets: $15 general; $10 CJH/partner members, seniors; $5 students;
purchase online at https://www.smarttix.com/Event/sea454

Moriah Amit, New York

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen May 17: Searching for Jewish Heritage with Joseph Berger at the Center for Jewish History in New York #general

Moriah Amit
 

Please join us for the following program, presented by the Center for
Jewish History, Ackman & Ziff Family Genealogy Institute, and YIVO
Institute for Jewish Research.

First Person: Jewish Stories, Jewish Lives: Searching for Jewish Heritage
with Joseph Berger
Date: May 17, 6:30 PM
Place: Center for Jewish History, 15 West 16th Street, New York, NY 10011
Description: After his parents died, Joseph Berger and his sister went
back to Poland and visited their parents' childhood homes for the first
time. What they discovered on their "roots journey" was both emotional
and surprising.
Mr. Berger, a former New York Times reporter, and the author of the
acclaimed memoir, Displaced Persons: Growing up American after the
Holocaust, will share stories and photos >from his fascinating journey
and offers tips for successful family searches abroad. Reflecting on the
current political climate in Poland and how it might impact a similar
journey today, he will be joined by Jonathan Ornstein, Executive Director
of the JCC in Krakow, and Helise Lieberman, Director of the Taube Center
for the Renewal of Jewish Life in Poland.
Tickets: $15 general; $10 CJH/partner members, seniors; $5 students;
purchase online at https://www.smarttix.com/Event/sea454

Moriah Amit, New York

Re: Are most WEILLs leviyim? #rabbinic

tom
 

A quick glance at the title pages of his books online,
<http://www.hebrewbooks.org/30659>,
and at his gravestone
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Die_Vorderseite_des_Grabsteines_auf_dem_Grab_Rabbi_Nathanael_Weil,_2013.JPG>,
show no mention of his being a levite. (You might be mistaking "zt'l",
"zikhron tzadik livrakhah", for indicating a levite?)

....... tom klein, toronto

Bernard Weill <linktree@...> wrote:

Often times i am asked if i am related to the Korban Nesanel (a commentary
on the Talmud) and i am quick to answer no because i believe the korban
nesanel was a levi (levite) whereas i am not a levi...

Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: RE: Are most WEILLs leviyim? #rabbinic

tom
 

A quick glance at the title pages of his books online,
<http://www.hebrewbooks.org/30659>,
and at his gravestone
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Die_Vorderseite_des_Grabsteines_auf_dem_Grab_Rabbi_Nathanael_Weil,_2013.JPG>,
show no mention of his being a levite. (You might be mistaking "zt'l",
"zikhron tzadik livrakhah", for indicating a levite?)

....... tom klein, toronto

Bernard Weill <linktree@...> wrote:

Often times i am asked if i am related to the Korban Nesanel (a commentary
on the Talmud) and i am quick to answer no because i believe the korban
nesanel was a levi (levite) whereas i am not a levi...

Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

Adam Cherson
 

Dear DNA Researchers,

Wondering if anyone has done dna comparisons between double-cousin
relatives. For instance, supposing I have a third cousin whose parents
are first cousins? How much more gene sharing is there between me and my
third cousin than there would be otherwise? Can I just double the
expected gene-sharing range since he is my third cousin in two ways?
This is not just an academic question: the situation can and does come
up with certain frequency in my research. Thanks in advance....

Adam Cherson

DNA Research #DNA Effect of Double Cousining on Gene Sharing Results #dna

Adam Cherson
 

Dear DNA Researchers,

Wondering if anyone has done dna comparisons between double-cousin
relatives. For instance, supposing I have a third cousin whose parents
are first cousins? How much more gene sharing is there between me and my
third cousin than there would be otherwise? Can I just double the
expected gene-sharing range since he is my third cousin in two ways?
This is not just an academic question: the situation can and does come
up with certain frequency in my research. Thanks in advance....

Adam Cherson

BUDLENDER #southafrica

Arlene <arlene@...>
 

A few years ago, I corresponded with someone in Australia about her
BUDLENDER connections in S. A.

I request that she makes contact with me again.

Louis ZETLER
ISRAEL

South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica BUDLENDER #southafrica

Arlene <arlene@...>
 

A few years ago, I corresponded with someone in Australia about her
BUDLENDER connections in S. A.

I request that she makes contact with me again.

Louis ZETLER
ISRAEL