Date   

Trip to Hungary #hungary

mimi simon
 

Hi Genners,
We just returned >from a trip to Berlin, Prague,
Vienna, and Budapest. While in Budapest we went to
the village where my maternal grandmother had lived
prior to coming to the U.S. in 1903. We had arranged
for an English-speaking driver and car to take us
there. (The gentleman was very accommodating, bright,
helpful and I would recommend him highly, if anyone is
interested. Contact me privately for this
information. He speaks English, Hungarian, Russian,
Ukrainian, and other languages and can arrange and
conduct trips also.)
The village of Ke'ked, currently of about 342
inhabitants, is in north east Hungary, a stone's throw
from the Slovakia border. We were looking for the inn
and farm that my great grandparents had owned. We were
also looking for the Jewish cemetery in Abaujvar, the
next village, where my great grandparents may be
buried.
The drive was about 3 hours - 2 hours on the
motorway and another hour on good local roads. We
came to Abaujvar first and our driver asked an elderly
man on the street where the cemetery might be. He
told him to look for a water tower. We found the
water tower after driving around curving roads,
parked, and walked to the cemetery. The cemetery was
next to a group of abandoned collective farm buildings
from the Soviet days. We trudged down a slope and up
another slope to the spot where we could see
tombstones. It had rained earlier so the weeds and
ground were wet and muddy. The cemetery was exactly
as it had been described in the jewishgen cemetery
project as previously reported. Many stones were
upright and many were on the ground. There are no
Jews nearby to take care of the cemetery so it has
fallen into disrepair. We took photos of tombstones
that were legible and will have them translated from
the Hebrew. There were a few with Hungarian names in
addition to the Hebrew but not of my family.
We then went to Ke'ked and visited the mayor
(polgarmeister) to whom I had written about our visit.
He told us, through our driver, that a certain
building had been an inn prior to WWII, according to
the elderly people in the village. Someone, not clear
whom, owns it but may not live there, may rent rooms
in summer, but it was all vague. They, or someone
previously, had renovated the small one-story building
and it was in excellent condition but we weren't able
to go inside.
The woman who lives next to the former inn said that
her grandmother, who died in 2000 at age 96, said that
the Klein girls were pretty. They would have been my
great aunts, Hermina and Ilona, both of whom perished
in Auschwitz.
A bonus was the village monument honoring the dead
of WWI and WWII. My great uncle, Lajos Klein, had
been a medical student, drafted as a "litter bearer,"
and had died in almost the first battle he attended.
His name was listed. Under the WWII names was the
Klein Family, which must have been the village's way
of honoring the family members who died in Auschwitz,
since none of them were military.
All in all, it was a very satisfying visit. One
question remains, however. A nephew by marriage had
requested permission to retrieve the property >from the
government after he had returned >from a work camp and
found the family had all perished. He wanted to sell
it and leave for Israel, we think. The question is
whether he was able to retrieve the property because
by the time he returned, in 1945 probably, the
communist government owned all properties. In 1989 or
1990 after the collapse of the Soviet Union, people
did buy property >from the government so it may never
have been returned to the family. Is there any way to
find out what actually happened to the property
without having a deed available? It is my
understanding that it is very difficult to locate such
deeds.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
KLEIN - Ke'ked, Hungary
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary
WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (now Storozhnitsa, Hungary)
all immigrated to Western Pennsylvania


Re: Hungarian Yizkor Book on Well-known online auction site #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

obviously, there are more areas of the site that i need to explore!

the list is great and has lots of good information, however, there are relatively few yiddish names listed, many of which are virtually the same as the hungarian (i.e. "munkatsch" for munkacs), and transliterated back into latin letters, which also introduces errors. (in the specific case of "kalov", the file shows "kalev", which is a misspelling and therefore would not have matched this specific book title.) and there are also some useful names that are just plain missing, such as "offen" (buda!).

i think it would be much more helpful to retain hebrew spellings, with or without the transliteration, and to add more names, particularly where they are significantly different >from the hungarian. to avoid font issues, it may be necessary to store hebrew spellings as small graphic files, but that's an issue for the webmaster. and it would also be helpful if this list were a real server database, rather than a pdf file, both for maintainability and to save bandwidth (downloading a 129-page file just to look up an entry or two is cumbersome).

if one of our members buys this particular book, i would be happy to transcribe that page of town names >from it.


....... tom klein, toronto


ps. tzelem was used to refer to deutschkreuz in austria, once known as keresztur. it is a common hebrew euphemism for crucifix.

"Carol J. Robinson" <caroljr@alamedanet.net> wrote:

The cross-reference guide on the H-SIG website was created to support
research efforts and includes Hebrew/Yiddish names in cases where they
were available to us. The cross reference guide is found on the Methods
page of the website (http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/methods.htm). In
addition to providing alternative names, it also lists the synagogue
with which the town was associated (which is useful for searching for
vital records).

Carol Robinson
Research Coordinator
Alameda, CA
caroljr@alamedanet.net

tom klein wrote:
i had a quick look at that auction (it's a 1-week listing), and in case it helps anyone, the hebrew title is: "the tzadik of kalov and his congregation". it refers to nagykallo (aka kalov).

the listing of towns is titled "the foreign spelling of place names mentioned in the book", and probably contains little information pertaining to most of the towns listed, outside the area of nagykallo.

i think that such a listing of hungarian place names in hebrew/yiddish would make a very useful research tool for the h-sig web site. (many yiddish names are confusingly different >from their hungarian equivalents, e.g. "altoffen" or "tzelem" or "presburg", for various reasons.)


....... tom klein, toronto


Re: h-sig digest: May 22, 2007 #hungary

A. Marmorstein <mehadrin@...>
 

There is a fairly good list of such place names at the front of the
book Chachmei Hungaria by Rabbi Y Y Cohen, and published by Machon
Yerusholayim (about 1990), it is in 3 columns, name as written in
Hebrew letters and documents, name in Hungarian and name in other
languages (Romanian or Slovak or otehr local language used after 1918
and the breakup of greater hungary). If the copyright issue could be
resolved, it would be a useful addition to the website.
A. MArmorstein
New York City

On May 23, 2007, at 2:04 AM, H-SIG digest wrote:

i think that such a listing of hungarian place names in hebrew/
yiddish would make a very useful research tool for the h-sig web
site. (many yiddish names are confusingly different >from their
hungarian equivalents, e.g. "altoffen" or "tzelem" or "presburg",
for various reasons.)


Hungary SIG #Hungary Trip to Hungary #hungary

mimi simon
 

Hi Genners,
We just returned >from a trip to Berlin, Prague,
Vienna, and Budapest. While in Budapest we went to
the village where my maternal grandmother had lived
prior to coming to the U.S. in 1903. We had arranged
for an English-speaking driver and car to take us
there. (The gentleman was very accommodating, bright,
helpful and I would recommend him highly, if anyone is
interested. Contact me privately for this
information. He speaks English, Hungarian, Russian,
Ukrainian, and other languages and can arrange and
conduct trips also.)
The village of Ke'ked, currently of about 342
inhabitants, is in north east Hungary, a stone's throw
from the Slovakia border. We were looking for the inn
and farm that my great grandparents had owned. We were
also looking for the Jewish cemetery in Abaujvar, the
next village, where my great grandparents may be
buried.
The drive was about 3 hours - 2 hours on the
motorway and another hour on good local roads. We
came to Abaujvar first and our driver asked an elderly
man on the street where the cemetery might be. He
told him to look for a water tower. We found the
water tower after driving around curving roads,
parked, and walked to the cemetery. The cemetery was
next to a group of abandoned collective farm buildings
from the Soviet days. We trudged down a slope and up
another slope to the spot where we could see
tombstones. It had rained earlier so the weeds and
ground were wet and muddy. The cemetery was exactly
as it had been described in the jewishgen cemetery
project as previously reported. Many stones were
upright and many were on the ground. There are no
Jews nearby to take care of the cemetery so it has
fallen into disrepair. We took photos of tombstones
that were legible and will have them translated from
the Hebrew. There were a few with Hungarian names in
addition to the Hebrew but not of my family.
We then went to Ke'ked and visited the mayor
(polgarmeister) to whom I had written about our visit.
He told us, through our driver, that a certain
building had been an inn prior to WWII, according to
the elderly people in the village. Someone, not clear
whom, owns it but may not live there, may rent rooms
in summer, but it was all vague. They, or someone
previously, had renovated the small one-story building
and it was in excellent condition but we weren't able
to go inside.
The woman who lives next to the former inn said that
her grandmother, who died in 2000 at age 96, said that
the Klein girls were pretty. They would have been my
great aunts, Hermina and Ilona, both of whom perished
in Auschwitz.
A bonus was the village monument honoring the dead
of WWI and WWII. My great uncle, Lajos Klein, had
been a medical student, drafted as a "litter bearer,"
and had died in almost the first battle he attended.
His name was listed. Under the WWII names was the
Klein Family, which must have been the village's way
of honoring the family members who died in Auschwitz,
since none of them were military.
All in all, it was a very satisfying visit. One
question remains, however. A nephew by marriage had
requested permission to retrieve the property >from the
government after he had returned >from a work camp and
found the family had all perished. He wanted to sell
it and leave for Israel, we think. The question is
whether he was able to retrieve the property because
by the time he returned, in 1945 probably, the
communist government owned all properties. In 1989 or
1990 after the collapse of the Soviet Union, people
did buy property >from the government so it may never
have been returned to the family. Is there any way to
find out what actually happened to the property
without having a deed available? It is my
understanding that it is very difficult to locate such
deeds.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
KLEIN - Ke'ked, Hungary
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary
WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (now Storozhnitsa, Hungary)
all immigrated to Western Pennsylvania


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re: Hungarian Yizkor Book on Well-known online auction site #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

obviously, there are more areas of the site that i need to explore!

the list is great and has lots of good information, however, there are relatively few yiddish names listed, many of which are virtually the same as the hungarian (i.e. "munkatsch" for munkacs), and transliterated back into latin letters, which also introduces errors. (in the specific case of "kalov", the file shows "kalev", which is a misspelling and therefore would not have matched this specific book title.) and there are also some useful names that are just plain missing, such as "offen" (buda!).

i think it would be much more helpful to retain hebrew spellings, with or without the transliteration, and to add more names, particularly where they are significantly different >from the hungarian. to avoid font issues, it may be necessary to store hebrew spellings as small graphic files, but that's an issue for the webmaster. and it would also be helpful if this list were a real server database, rather than a pdf file, both for maintainability and to save bandwidth (downloading a 129-page file just to look up an entry or two is cumbersome).

if one of our members buys this particular book, i would be happy to transcribe that page of town names >from it.


....... tom klein, toronto


ps. tzelem was used to refer to deutschkreuz in austria, once known as keresztur. it is a common hebrew euphemism for crucifix.

"Carol J. Robinson" <caroljr@alamedanet.net> wrote:

The cross-reference guide on the H-SIG website was created to support
research efforts and includes Hebrew/Yiddish names in cases where they
were available to us. The cross reference guide is found on the Methods
page of the website (http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/methods.htm). In
addition to providing alternative names, it also lists the synagogue
with which the town was associated (which is useful for searching for
vital records).

Carol Robinson
Research Coordinator
Alameda, CA
caroljr@alamedanet.net

tom klein wrote:
i had a quick look at that auction (it's a 1-week listing), and in case it helps anyone, the hebrew title is: "the tzadik of kalov and his congregation". it refers to nagykallo (aka kalov).

the listing of towns is titled "the foreign spelling of place names mentioned in the book", and probably contains little information pertaining to most of the towns listed, outside the area of nagykallo.

i think that such a listing of hungarian place names in hebrew/yiddish would make a very useful research tool for the h-sig web site. (many yiddish names are confusingly different >from their hungarian equivalents, e.g. "altoffen" or "tzelem" or "presburg", for various reasons.)


....... tom klein, toronto


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: h-sig digest: May 22, 2007 #hungary

A. Marmorstein <mehadrin@...>
 

There is a fairly good list of such place names at the front of the
book Chachmei Hungaria by Rabbi Y Y Cohen, and published by Machon
Yerusholayim (about 1990), it is in 3 columns, name as written in
Hebrew letters and documents, name in Hungarian and name in other
languages (Romanian or Slovak or otehr local language used after 1918
and the breakup of greater hungary). If the copyright issue could be
resolved, it would be a useful addition to the website.
A. MArmorstein
New York City

On May 23, 2007, at 2:04 AM, H-SIG digest wrote:

i think that such a listing of hungarian place names in hebrew/
yiddish would make a very useful research tool for the h-sig web
site. (many yiddish names are confusingly different >from their
hungarian equivalents, e.g. "altoffen" or "tzelem" or "presburg",
for various reasons.)


Re: Geza #hungary

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

to answer:

<<Can anyone tell me if the name Geza is a nickname for a longer name, or
> simply a name on its own?>>

If a Hungarian woman was known as "Geza," she most likely had the full given
name of "Gizella," a popular Magyar name given to Jewish women in the 19th
and early 20th centuries.

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


The Given Name Geza #hungary

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Suzanne Kemeny Riddle posted as follows:

"Can anyone tell me if the name Geza is a nickname for a longer name, or
simply a name on its own?"


The Hungarian given name Geza (for a male) was used many centuries ago in
Hungary, by Hungarians, as a stand-alone given name. The use of the name
was taken up by Jews in later centuries in significant frequencies, and in
particular in the 19th century.

However, statistical studies of the frequencies in which secular names were
adopted by Jews show that this use of the name Geza by Jews was less than
for other more popular Hungarian names like Andras, Antal, Eugen, Bela,
Bernat, Bodog, Dezso, Ede, Elek, Erno, Farkas, and others. For these
latter names the rabbis of that period authorized the use of these
Hungarian secular names as secular kinuim for Hebrew names, but Geza was
not included in this list. Thus, for a Jew who had the secular Hungarian
name Bela and the Hebrew name Avraham, his Legal Jewish name (written in a
Get, a Jewish divorce contract) would be:

Avraham haMechune Bela ben Ploni

But the Hungarian given name Geza did not enjoy this privilege. (Ploni is
the Jewish given name of his father.)

These authorized secular names can be seen in the JewishGen Given Names
Data Base for Hungary, at this web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/ >



--
Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Geza #hungary

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

to answer:

<<Can anyone tell me if the name Geza is a nickname for a longer name, or
> simply a name on its own?>>

If a Hungarian woman was known as "Geza," she most likely had the full given
name of "Gizella," a popular Magyar name given to Jewish women in the 19th
and early 20th centuries.

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary The Given Name Geza #hungary

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Suzanne Kemeny Riddle posted as follows:

"Can anyone tell me if the name Geza is a nickname for a longer name, or
simply a name on its own?"


The Hungarian given name Geza (for a male) was used many centuries ago in
Hungary, by Hungarians, as a stand-alone given name. The use of the name
was taken up by Jews in later centuries in significant frequencies, and in
particular in the 19th century.

However, statistical studies of the frequencies in which secular names were
adopted by Jews show that this use of the name Geza by Jews was less than
for other more popular Hungarian names like Andras, Antal, Eugen, Bela,
Bernat, Bodog, Dezso, Ede, Elek, Erno, Farkas, and others. For these
latter names the rabbis of that period authorized the use of these
Hungarian secular names as secular kinuim for Hebrew names, but Geza was
not included in this list. Thus, for a Jew who had the secular Hungarian
name Bela and the Hebrew name Avraham, his Legal Jewish name (written in a
Get, a Jewish divorce contract) would be:

Avraham haMechune Bela ben Ploni

But the Hungarian given name Geza did not enjoy this privilege. (Ploni is
the Jewish given name of his father.)

These authorized secular names can be seen in the JewishGen Given Names
Data Base for Hungary, at this web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/ >



--
Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


JGFF success story #ukraine

taxtroll@...
 

I just wanted to share this with the group...

My ggm was Lena BELINSKY LUTSKY. She came to the US alone in 1906, an
unmarried seamstress >from Lysyanka, Ukraine, to see an uncle Benjamin
GARFELD/HOCHFELD. She married Louis LUTSKY in Brooklyn circa 1908-9,
had 2 babies, and then committed suicide in 1912. I knew she had a
brother Leib/Louis BELINSKY per the 1910 census so I tried doing my
research through him. He came to the US in 1907, also >from Lysyanka, to
see his sister. I also found another brother Solomon BELINSKY who came
in 1913 (too late to see his sister) >from Talne, Ukraine. Their parents
were Abraham BELINSKY & Ethel GELFAND who I don't think ever came to
the US.

That's where the trail ended. My dad and his siblings didn't even know
that Lena had brothers. In 2006, I noticed someone on the JGFF
searching for BELINSKY in Ukraine. I sent an e-mail. The response came
>from the wife of the grandson of Louis BELINSKY. Jackpot! This led me
to a large family, first cousins of my father that we didn't know
existed. It turns out that my grandparents knew this family but the
connection was lost in the next generation.

A few days ago, I pulled out my BELINSKY file again. I went back to the
JGFF and noticed someone searching for BELINKY (no S) in Talne, Ukraine
(this was an old post that I never noticed before). I sent an e-mail.
The reply came >from the granddaughter of Solomon BELINSKY. Jackpot
again! She had given up on the BELINSKY branch of her family and hadn't
even visited JGFF for over 900 days. We're now in the process of
exchanging information about our families. Her mother is still living
with her memory intact so I'm getting some great stories. Her mother
remembers pushing my dad around the block in his stroller. Hopefully
she has more clues we can follow back to the old country.

There is a living male descendent of Louis BELINSKY. I'm trying to get
in touch with him to see if he's interested in providing a DNA sample.
According to the RTR Foundation website, very few records survive for
these towns so DNA may be the best way to connect with the past.

My tip to other researchers, just as you re-visit records you haven't
looked at in a while, don't forget to go back and check the JGFF
occassionally. You never know who recently posted or when an older
posting will suddenly mean something to you.

Sharon Klein
Acworth, GA

Moderator's comment: Thank you for sharing that! This is what we
are about and it is great to be able to share in your find.
As one who has been involved in the world of genealogy since the
late 70's - I also try to go back to the basics of reviewing old
papers, notes and such. And every year or two, manage to attend
the long Sunday session of Beginner's Genealogy at the Annual
Jewish Genealogy Conference. And by golly, learn something new
each time! See you there???


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine JGFF success story #ukraine

taxtroll@...
 

I just wanted to share this with the group...

My ggm was Lena BELINSKY LUTSKY. She came to the US alone in 1906, an
unmarried seamstress >from Lysyanka, Ukraine, to see an uncle Benjamin
GARFELD/HOCHFELD. She married Louis LUTSKY in Brooklyn circa 1908-9,
had 2 babies, and then committed suicide in 1912. I knew she had a
brother Leib/Louis BELINSKY per the 1910 census so I tried doing my
research through him. He came to the US in 1907, also >from Lysyanka, to
see his sister. I also found another brother Solomon BELINSKY who came
in 1913 (too late to see his sister) >from Talne, Ukraine. Their parents
were Abraham BELINSKY & Ethel GELFAND who I don't think ever came to
the US.

That's where the trail ended. My dad and his siblings didn't even know
that Lena had brothers. In 2006, I noticed someone on the JGFF
searching for BELINSKY in Ukraine. I sent an e-mail. The response came
>from the wife of the grandson of Louis BELINSKY. Jackpot! This led me
to a large family, first cousins of my father that we didn't know
existed. It turns out that my grandparents knew this family but the
connection was lost in the next generation.

A few days ago, I pulled out my BELINSKY file again. I went back to the
JGFF and noticed someone searching for BELINKY (no S) in Talne, Ukraine
(this was an old post that I never noticed before). I sent an e-mail.
The reply came >from the granddaughter of Solomon BELINSKY. Jackpot
again! She had given up on the BELINSKY branch of her family and hadn't
even visited JGFF for over 900 days. We're now in the process of
exchanging information about our families. Her mother is still living
with her memory intact so I'm getting some great stories. Her mother
remembers pushing my dad around the block in his stroller. Hopefully
she has more clues we can follow back to the old country.

There is a living male descendent of Louis BELINSKY. I'm trying to get
in touch with him to see if he's interested in providing a DNA sample.
According to the RTR Foundation website, very few records survive for
these towns so DNA may be the best way to connect with the past.

My tip to other researchers, just as you re-visit records you haven't
looked at in a while, don't forget to go back and check the JGFF
occassionally. You never know who recently posted or when an older
posting will suddenly mean something to you.

Sharon Klein
Acworth, GA

Moderator's comment: Thank you for sharing that! This is what we
are about and it is great to be able to share in your find.
As one who has been involved in the world of genealogy since the
late 70's - I also try to go back to the basics of reviewing old
papers, notes and such. And every year or two, manage to attend
the long Sunday session of Beginner's Genealogy at the Annual
Jewish Genealogy Conference. And by golly, learn something new
each time! See you there???


Arrival in NYC 1875; return to Old Country? #usa

Linda Epstein
 

My gggf, Marckus SEMLER, arrived in New York in 1875. Although I have found his
naturalization papers >from 1885, they don't provide much information. All
documents state that he and his family were >from "Austria".

The last clue I have to Marcus's wereabouts is the 1890 NY Police Census,
which states he lived on the Lower East Side. By the 1900 Federal Census his
wife is listed as a widow. As I cannot find collateral relatives, I have
been desperately trying to find Marcus's death certificate, but to no avail.

Family lore says Marcus was ill and returned to Europe to die. He was a peddler
with 6 children, could he really afford to return to the old country? If he did,
is there a way to find out?

Linda Epstein New Orleans, LA <linny61@yahoo.com>

NOTE PLEASE - Last names ( SEMLER ) should always be typed in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS
in email to this and other JewishGen lists. No other text in ALL CAPS please.
I have corrected SEMLER in this message as a courtesy to the writer. Frequent
violations of this and other JewishGen rules will cause your email to be rejected
by the list moderators.


Early American SIG #USA Arrival in NYC 1875; return to Old Country? #usa

Linda Epstein
 

My gggf, Marckus SEMLER, arrived in New York in 1875. Although I have found his
naturalization papers >from 1885, they don't provide much information. All
documents state that he and his family were >from "Austria".

The last clue I have to Marcus's wereabouts is the 1890 NY Police Census,
which states he lived on the Lower East Side. By the 1900 Federal Census his
wife is listed as a widow. As I cannot find collateral relatives, I have
been desperately trying to find Marcus's death certificate, but to no avail.

Family lore says Marcus was ill and returned to Europe to die. He was a peddler
with 6 children, could he really afford to return to the old country? If he did,
is there a way to find out?

Linda Epstein New Orleans, LA <linny61@yahoo.com>

NOTE PLEASE - Last names ( SEMLER ) should always be typed in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS
in email to this and other JewishGen lists. No other text in ALL CAPS please.
I have corrected SEMLER in this message as a courtesy to the writer. Frequent
violations of this and other JewishGen rules will cause your email to be rejected
by the list moderators.


SITE CITE -Schopfloch Jewish Cemetery Database #germany

Karen Franklin <kfranklin@...>
 

Just to make you aware of a wonderful database that was recently
posted thanks to the volunteer work of Rolf Hofmann and Angelika Brosig.

The Schopfloch Cemetery Database includes not only information on the
tombstones, but gives details about the families, relationships
between individuals in the town and other communities, and additional
relevant material. The individuals who worked on this data obviously
have a good working knowledge of the Jewish history in the area and a
passion for their work.

http://www.alemannia-judaica.de/images/Images%20101/CEM-SCHOPFLOCH-NAMELIST-GERMAN.htm

Karen Franklin Director of Family Research kfranklin@lbi.cjh.org
Leo Baeck Insitute, New York, NY


German SIG #Germany SITE CITE -Schopfloch Jewish Cemetery Database #germany

Karen Franklin <kfranklin@...>
 

Just to make you aware of a wonderful database that was recently
posted thanks to the volunteer work of Rolf Hofmann and Angelika Brosig.

The Schopfloch Cemetery Database includes not only information on the
tombstones, but gives details about the families, relationships
between individuals in the town and other communities, and additional
relevant material. The individuals who worked on this data obviously
have a good working knowledge of the Jewish history in the area and a
passion for their work.

http://www.alemannia-judaica.de/images/Images%20101/CEM-SCHOPFLOCH-NAMELIST-GERMAN.htm

Karen Franklin Director of Family Research kfranklin@lbi.cjh.org
Leo Baeck Insitute, New York, NY


Re: "Geo Server" and Bezirke and Laender of German towns #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

Genealogy.net shows enormous promise. Its presentation of the
complexities of political geography over time has been done creatively
and in several different ways. It's hard to describe; just head over
there and start clicking. Hint: the word "mehr" means "more".

That said, it should not be taken as gospel. I started (of course) with
Gleiwitz, my father's home town.

I got ten hits:
1)Alt-Gleiwitz (town)
2)Gleiwitz (church district)
3)Gleiwitz (parish)
4)Gleiwitz (church)
5)Gleiwitz (town)
6)Gleiwitz (county #1)
7)Gleiwitz (county #2)
8)Gleiwitzer Hütte (place)
9)Tost-Gleiwitz (county #1)
10)Tost-Gleiwitz (county #2)

Comments on each one:
1) The main listing gives the highest-order parent territory as
"Norddeutscher Bund", which is correct (according to the detailed
graph-chart on a sub-page) only for 1867-70. Its county is listed as
Tost-Gleiwitz, without a date-range filled in. (The name of the county
was changed to "Gleiwitz" in 1930, about a century after people started
calling it that...) Polish name is correct.

2) The term for church district is "Kirchenkreis", which is used here.
This is the Evangelical-Lutheran church district. There are no entries
for the (overwhelming-majority) Catholic churches, and nothing on the
Jewish community.

3) On the other hand, they use the word "parish" instead of the German
"Kirchspiel." Pity--I *like* that word.

4) "Church" is the term used here. I guess there was only one
Protestant church in town.

5) Here the graphs, etc. go haywire. The county name-change is dated
1897, which is correct for all I know. Must look that up... Then the
Bezirk (district) is shown as Kattowitz for 1897 and after; correct
starting date is 1939 (when Kattowitz was occupied and became German
again). Then there's an arrow leading to Galicia of all places, which
is shown as variously subordinate to Austria, Ukraine and Poland.
Whatever. Gleiwitz was never part of Galicia, let alone Ukraine! It was
Austrian until 1742, but that's not noted here. Polish name is correct.

6) Same nonsensical hierarchy here. The term here and in 7, 9, and 10
is "County", not "Kreis".

7) A different hierarchy this time, but still pointing to Galicia.
Also, the Polish (current!) name of the place is incorrectly given as
Gliwicki.

8) Awwww! This is a mountaineering lodge in Austria, founded by Alpine
fans >from Gleiwitz in 1900, my g-grandfather Eugen Lustig among them.
http://www.gleiwitzerhuette.at/index.html The "Chronik" (timeline)
page at that site mentions that in 1933 the German Alpine Society was
Nazified, and that the head of the Gleiwitz (i.e., Upper Silesia)
division, Dr. Wilhelm Lustig, resigned as a consequence. That's my
grandpa Bill. (He rejoined after the war, despite living much nearer
the Andes than the Alps.) They'd be so proud that it's still there,
still known. Made my whole day.

9) Here, the date of transfer to Bezirk Kattowitz is correct (1939) but
the name isn't! Galicia is no longer in the picture.

10) This time the county is in the Breslau administrative district for
1816-1845, which is precisely backwards: the Oppeln district was created
in 1816, and Gleiwitz belonged to Breslau *before* then. Worse yet, the
district is referred to as "Niederschlesien," which is entirely wrong:
Gleiwitz was and is in the heart of Upper, not Lower Silesia.

A search on "Gliwice" produced nos. 1 and 5 above, plus 5 other places
(Brzezinka, Laband, Czechowitz, Bojkow, Ostroppa) within the county that
were eventually incorporated into the city. Other incorporated places
(Petersdorf, Trynek) do not show up...
======================================================================

Now the good news: *this is a Wiki.*

That is, registered users may log in and correct things. As you can
see, we have our work cut out for us, but that's nothing new.

For a good overview of this stuff, but in a limited time period
(1871-1945), try www.verwaltungsgeschichte.de.

Onward!

Roger Lustig, GerSIG Research Coordinator, Princeton, NJ USA <trovato@verizon.net>

Hanna Grossman Cornwall, CT <hannakg@optonline.net>

A week ago I sent the following query but phrased it counties and
states, and thus got only one response about US counties and states.
Perhaps phrasing the subject better will produce a useful answer.
"I have once again lost this valuable e-mail address and once again
been unable to compose a query which would find it on the gersig
archives. Could someone be kind enough to spell it out once again."
MODERATOR NOTE: One source is http://gov.genealogy.net/
In the past I have often used the Geo Server at Genealogy.net
you send an email to: geo@genealogy.net
with the name of the town you are seeking as the only text in your email
The reply used to come within seconds.
NOTE: The name of the town must be spelled correctly.
I have tried this a few times just now on receipt of your new inquiry
and it is not responding.
It may be that the site is down for a short time or perhaps Genealogy.net
has discontinued this service.
If a GerSIG member who is fluent in German could check the Genealogy.net
website for information about this it would be helpfu to us all.
http://gov.genealogy.net/ MODERATOR


German SIG #Germany Re: "Geo Server" and Bezirke and Laender of German towns #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

Genealogy.net shows enormous promise. Its presentation of the
complexities of political geography over time has been done creatively
and in several different ways. It's hard to describe; just head over
there and start clicking. Hint: the word "mehr" means "more".

That said, it should not be taken as gospel. I started (of course) with
Gleiwitz, my father's home town.

I got ten hits:
1)Alt-Gleiwitz (town)
2)Gleiwitz (church district)
3)Gleiwitz (parish)
4)Gleiwitz (church)
5)Gleiwitz (town)
6)Gleiwitz (county #1)
7)Gleiwitz (county #2)
8)Gleiwitzer Hütte (place)
9)Tost-Gleiwitz (county #1)
10)Tost-Gleiwitz (county #2)

Comments on each one:
1) The main listing gives the highest-order parent territory as
"Norddeutscher Bund", which is correct (according to the detailed
graph-chart on a sub-page) only for 1867-70. Its county is listed as
Tost-Gleiwitz, without a date-range filled in. (The name of the county
was changed to "Gleiwitz" in 1930, about a century after people started
calling it that...) Polish name is correct.

2) The term for church district is "Kirchenkreis", which is used here.
This is the Evangelical-Lutheran church district. There are no entries
for the (overwhelming-majority) Catholic churches, and nothing on the
Jewish community.

3) On the other hand, they use the word "parish" instead of the German
"Kirchspiel." Pity--I *like* that word.

4) "Church" is the term used here. I guess there was only one
Protestant church in town.

5) Here the graphs, etc. go haywire. The county name-change is dated
1897, which is correct for all I know. Must look that up... Then the
Bezirk (district) is shown as Kattowitz for 1897 and after; correct
starting date is 1939 (when Kattowitz was occupied and became German
again). Then there's an arrow leading to Galicia of all places, which
is shown as variously subordinate to Austria, Ukraine and Poland.
Whatever. Gleiwitz was never part of Galicia, let alone Ukraine! It was
Austrian until 1742, but that's not noted here. Polish name is correct.

6) Same nonsensical hierarchy here. The term here and in 7, 9, and 10
is "County", not "Kreis".

7) A different hierarchy this time, but still pointing to Galicia.
Also, the Polish (current!) name of the place is incorrectly given as
Gliwicki.

8) Awwww! This is a mountaineering lodge in Austria, founded by Alpine
fans >from Gleiwitz in 1900, my g-grandfather Eugen Lustig among them.
http://www.gleiwitzerhuette.at/index.html The "Chronik" (timeline)
page at that site mentions that in 1933 the German Alpine Society was
Nazified, and that the head of the Gleiwitz (i.e., Upper Silesia)
division, Dr. Wilhelm Lustig, resigned as a consequence. That's my
grandpa Bill. (He rejoined after the war, despite living much nearer
the Andes than the Alps.) They'd be so proud that it's still there,
still known. Made my whole day.

9) Here, the date of transfer to Bezirk Kattowitz is correct (1939) but
the name isn't! Galicia is no longer in the picture.

10) This time the county is in the Breslau administrative district for
1816-1845, which is precisely backwards: the Oppeln district was created
in 1816, and Gleiwitz belonged to Breslau *before* then. Worse yet, the
district is referred to as "Niederschlesien," which is entirely wrong:
Gleiwitz was and is in the heart of Upper, not Lower Silesia.

A search on "Gliwice" produced nos. 1 and 5 above, plus 5 other places
(Brzezinka, Laband, Czechowitz, Bojkow, Ostroppa) within the county that
were eventually incorporated into the city. Other incorporated places
(Petersdorf, Trynek) do not show up...
======================================================================

Now the good news: *this is a Wiki.*

That is, registered users may log in and correct things. As you can
see, we have our work cut out for us, but that's nothing new.

For a good overview of this stuff, but in a limited time period
(1871-1945), try www.verwaltungsgeschichte.de.

Onward!

Roger Lustig, GerSIG Research Coordinator, Princeton, NJ USA <trovato@verizon.net>

Hanna Grossman Cornwall, CT <hannakg@optonline.net>

A week ago I sent the following query but phrased it counties and
states, and thus got only one response about US counties and states.
Perhaps phrasing the subject better will produce a useful answer.
"I have once again lost this valuable e-mail address and once again
been unable to compose a query which would find it on the gersig
archives. Could someone be kind enough to spell it out once again."
MODERATOR NOTE: One source is http://gov.genealogy.net/
In the past I have often used the Geo Server at Genealogy.net
you send an email to: geo@genealogy.net
with the name of the town you are seeking as the only text in your email
The reply used to come within seconds.
NOTE: The name of the town must be spelled correctly.
I have tried this a few times just now on receipt of your new inquiry
and it is not responding.
It may be that the site is down for a short time or perhaps Genealogy.net
has discontinued this service.
If a GerSIG member who is fluent in German could check the Genealogy.net
website for information about this it would be helpfu to us all.
http://gov.genealogy.net/ MODERATOR


Immigration #poland

Shirley B. Radding <sbradding@...>
 

Are there any online sites to search for immigration other than Ellis
Island especailly before 1900? I'm not mobile and have to do my
searching on line.

Shirley Radding

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Since this topic isn't strictly within the scope
of the BialyGen Discussion Group, please send your responses to Shirley
privately.


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Immigration #poland

Shirley B. Radding <sbradding@...>
 

Are there any online sites to search for immigration other than Ellis
Island especailly before 1900? I'm not mobile and have to do my
searching on line.

Shirley Radding

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Since this topic isn't strictly within the scope
of the BialyGen Discussion Group, please send your responses to Shirley
privately.