Date   

Re: the word "shkolnik" in a marriage document #general

aida <atedege@...>
 

Steven Lasky <steve725@...> wrote:
"In reviewing the translations of some family
marriage documents >from Poland...I noticed that the
word "shkolnik" was used after the names of the two
people who witnessed the wedding...they were said in
the document to be illiterate... would this word
be used in this way as a matter of respect to the two
witnesses?...Has anybody seen terminology like this
before in such documents?"

=====I don't think the word "shkolnik" was used as a
matter of respect despite the witnesses being
illiterate: the word "shkolnik" is a term used in
slavic to refer to a synagogue sexton, which is
apparently what those marriage certificate witnesses
were.
It is very doubtful that they were indeed illiterate
in Hebrew: they simply wouldn't have been able to
fulfill their role at the local synagogue.
Most probably they were only illiterate in the
non-Jewish language (the tsar's Russian), couldn't
sign their names in that language, and that's why the
acting Russian official qualified them as illiterate.
This was a common occurrence in those times in the
whole Pale of Settlement.
Incidentally, Shkolnik is also a family name: the
former israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol's original
surname was Shkolnik.
Hope this helps.
Aida Rauch [Belgium]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: the word "shkolnik" in a marriage document #general

aida <atedege@...>
 

Steven Lasky <steve725@...> wrote:
"In reviewing the translations of some family
marriage documents >from Poland...I noticed that the
word "shkolnik" was used after the names of the two
people who witnessed the wedding...they were said in
the document to be illiterate... would this word
be used in this way as a matter of respect to the two
witnesses?...Has anybody seen terminology like this
before in such documents?"

=====I don't think the word "shkolnik" was used as a
matter of respect despite the witnesses being
illiterate: the word "shkolnik" is a term used in
slavic to refer to a synagogue sexton, which is
apparently what those marriage certificate witnesses
were.
It is very doubtful that they were indeed illiterate
in Hebrew: they simply wouldn't have been able to
fulfill their role at the local synagogue.
Most probably they were only illiterate in the
non-Jewish language (the tsar's Russian), couldn't
sign their names in that language, and that's why the
acting Russian official qualified them as illiterate.
This was a common occurrence in those times in the
whole Pale of Settlement.
Incidentally, Shkolnik is also a family name: the
former israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol's original
surname was Shkolnik.
Hope this helps.
Aida Rauch [Belgium]


Mt Zion Cemetery, NY - Need Gravestone(s) lookup and photo. #general

Yaacov Slizak <yslizak@...>
 

Dear Friends,

My great-graudaunt Fanny BLEUSTEIN nee FELDMAN is buried in Mt. Zion
Cemetery in NY, as well as her 3 sons and their spouses.
I would be grateful for any help in transcribing the tomb inscriptions and -
if possible at all - a photo. I am particulately interested in any Hebrew
inscription.

Most of the gravestones are very close to each other. If any good soul is
willing to help, please reply privately and I will provide the exact
location.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Yaacov Slizak
Ennis, Co.Clare, Ireland

SLIZAK, SANDAL, FELDMAN, WOLFSON, ZYLBERKRANTZ, DOMB - Miedzyrzec/Lukow
(Pol) SPOSOB/SPOSEEP - Kurytnycja, Lyuboml (Ukr), Chelm, Dubenka (Pol), USA;
FARBER - Kiyev (Ukr), Argentina; GURFINKEL - Hrubieszow (Pol)
KLEINER/KLEIN - Hrubieszow, Chrzanow, Sieniawa (Pol), UK;
PLOJT, PLOIT - Vladimir Volynskiy, Ozdziutycze, Kovel (Ukr), Argentina;
JAEGER, (Eastern Galicia);


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Mt Zion Cemetery, NY - Need Gravestone(s) lookup and photo. #general

Yaacov Slizak <yslizak@...>
 

Dear Friends,

My great-graudaunt Fanny BLEUSTEIN nee FELDMAN is buried in Mt. Zion
Cemetery in NY, as well as her 3 sons and their spouses.
I would be grateful for any help in transcribing the tomb inscriptions and -
if possible at all - a photo. I am particulately interested in any Hebrew
inscription.

Most of the gravestones are very close to each other. If any good soul is
willing to help, please reply privately and I will provide the exact
location.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Yaacov Slizak
Ennis, Co.Clare, Ireland

SLIZAK, SANDAL, FELDMAN, WOLFSON, ZYLBERKRANTZ, DOMB - Miedzyrzec/Lukow
(Pol) SPOSOB/SPOSEEP - Kurytnycja, Lyuboml (Ukr), Chelm, Dubenka (Pol), USA;
FARBER - Kiyev (Ukr), Argentina; GURFINKEL - Hrubieszow (Pol)
KLEINER/KLEIN - Hrubieszow, Chrzanow, Sieniawa (Pol), UK;
PLOJT, PLOIT - Vladimir Volynskiy, Ozdziutycze, Kovel (Ukr), Argentina;
JAEGER, (Eastern Galicia);


Looking for: Paula/Paulina STEINER #general

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I am looking for Paula/Paulina STEINER, a distant relative who became
known to me only recently. She lived for many years in and around Montreal,
Quebec, Canada.

Please reply privately.

STAN ZEIDENBERG
Toronto, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for: Paula/Paulina STEINER #general

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I am looking for Paula/Paulina STEINER, a distant relative who became
known to me only recently. She lived for many years in and around Montreal,
Quebec, Canada.

Please reply privately.

STAN ZEIDENBERG
Toronto, Canada


Galveston Plan #general

haviva <havival@...>
 

Dear Genners,
There was a query about immigration into Galveston, Texas. There is a book,
"Galveston: Ellis Island of the West" by Bernard Marinbach that describes
how this immigration of about 10,000 Jews >from 1907 to 1914 came to be.
The book may be a bit pricey, but should be available >from a library.
The plan came about when a group of affluent New York German Jews wanted to
divert further immigration of Eastern European Jews away >from the New York
area. Recruiters were hired to go to the pogrom ridden Ukraine and
encourage the Jews who were trying to get to America to come to Galveston,
where work would be found for them and they would then become settlers in
America's western and midwestern cities. Financial aid was often provided.
The details of the Galveston Movement are too lengthy to provide here, but
are definitely worth researching.
My own relatives, who came >from Radomyshl to Galveston, through this
movement, were then sent to Minneapolis.
Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph.D.
Palm Beach, Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Galveston Plan #general

haviva <havival@...>
 

Dear Genners,
There was a query about immigration into Galveston, Texas. There is a book,
"Galveston: Ellis Island of the West" by Bernard Marinbach that describes
how this immigration of about 10,000 Jews >from 1907 to 1914 came to be.
The book may be a bit pricey, but should be available >from a library.
The plan came about when a group of affluent New York German Jews wanted to
divert further immigration of Eastern European Jews away >from the New York
area. Recruiters were hired to go to the pogrom ridden Ukraine and
encourage the Jews who were trying to get to America to come to Galveston,
where work would be found for them and they would then become settlers in
America's western and midwestern cities. Financial aid was often provided.
The details of the Galveston Movement are too lengthy to provide here, but
are definitely worth researching.
My own relatives, who came >from Radomyshl to Galveston, through this
movement, were then sent to Minneapolis.
Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph.D.
Palm Beach, Florida


Re: Yad Vashem: one day to visit #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Rabbi Gary M. Gans" <rabbigansATcomcast.net@...> wrote

If I have one day for research at Yad Vashem, what might I be able to
accomplish that I can't do on line?

My interests are Galicia and Lithuania.

I do speak/read Hebrew.
I don't know specifically in relation to Yad Vashem, but given that many
such organisations have wonderful websites with catalogues on-line, it is
certain that your visit can be much enhanced by pre-planning using the
website.

I visited the Leo Baeck Library in New York in March. My time was at a
premium as I was attending a family wedding.

Using the web catalogue I was able to identify in advance the documents that
were of interest.

If I hadn't visited I might have had to request the whole lot at large
expense.

I was able to see the original documents and decide very quickly which
documents I wanted copied.

My visit was only 3 hours and I achieved a lot.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Yad Vashem: one day to visit #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Rabbi Gary M. Gans" <rabbigansATcomcast.net@...> wrote

If I have one day for research at Yad Vashem, what might I be able to
accomplish that I can't do on line?

My interests are Galicia and Lithuania.

I do speak/read Hebrew.
I don't know specifically in relation to Yad Vashem, but given that many
such organisations have wonderful websites with catalogues on-line, it is
certain that your visit can be much enhanced by pre-planning using the
website.

I visited the Leo Baeck Library in New York in March. My time was at a
premium as I was attending a family wedding.

Using the web catalogue I was able to identify in advance the documents that
were of interest.

If I hadn't visited I might have had to request the whole lot at large
expense.

I was able to see the original documents and decide very quickly which
documents I wanted copied.

My visit was only 3 hours and I achieved a lot.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


Re: galveston plan #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Joan Parker" <joanparker@...> wrote in message
news:035e01c71be4$6cc016d0$3a8c94ce@acer2e68c49b20...

What is the Galveston Immigration Plan? I recently found some Goldberg
family in Galveston around 1923.
See http://www.cjh.org/nhprc/JIIBGalveston02.html via Google!

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: galveston plan #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Joan Parker" <joanparker@...> wrote in message
news:035e01c71be4$6cc016d0$3a8c94ce@acer2e68c49b20...

What is the Galveston Immigration Plan? I recently found some Goldberg
family in Galveston around 1923.
See http://www.cjh.org/nhprc/JIIBGalveston02.html via Google!

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


Re: The word "shkolnik" in marriage document #general

Jake Goldstein
 

On 2006.12.09, Steven Lasky <steve725@...> wrote:

> In reviewing the translations of some family marriage documents from
> Poland (year 1890, so in Cyrillic), I noticed that the word
> "shkolnik" was used after the names of the two people who witnessed
> the wedding. One was age fifty-five, the other seventy-three, and
> they were said in the document to be illiterate. I understand that
> the word "shkolnik" can mean pupil or scholar in English. My
> question is, would this word be used in this way as a matter of
> respect to the two witnesses? I imagine that even though they might
> have been illiterate per se, they might still have been scholars or
> students of the Torah, even at their age. I wonder whether this was
> a common practice. Has anybody seen terminology like this before in
> such documents?

Hi Steve,

The translator made a mistake. S/He must have misassociated the
word illiterate, listed after one of the names at the foot of a
marriage registration (probably that of the mother of the bride or
the groom) with that of a witness.

A szkolnik was an observant person of unquestionable probity. He (it
was always a male) was a student or a teacher, shul attendant and/or
overseer, or he may have had some administrative duty in the
community. A witness would be a person who could certainly read a
prayerbook and study and who would definitely have signed his
Hebrew/Yiddish name on the marriage registration.

When you look at a town's marriage registrations, you see the same
witness names over and over. Rabbis used to pick witnesses who
would accompany them to every marriage in which they officiated. It
was important for them to be able to sign both the ketuba (religious
marriage contract), and, later, a civil registration in front of the
registrar, attesting that the event had indeed occurred.

Jake Goldstein
Boston, Massachusetts, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The word "shkolnik" in marriage document #general

Jake Goldstein
 

On 2006.12.09, Steven Lasky <steve725@...> wrote:

> In reviewing the translations of some family marriage documents from
> Poland (year 1890, so in Cyrillic), I noticed that the word
> "shkolnik" was used after the names of the two people who witnessed
> the wedding. One was age fifty-five, the other seventy-three, and
> they were said in the document to be illiterate. I understand that
> the word "shkolnik" can mean pupil or scholar in English. My
> question is, would this word be used in this way as a matter of
> respect to the two witnesses? I imagine that even though they might
> have been illiterate per se, they might still have been scholars or
> students of the Torah, even at their age. I wonder whether this was
> a common practice. Has anybody seen terminology like this before in
> such documents?

Hi Steve,

The translator made a mistake. S/He must have misassociated the
word illiterate, listed after one of the names at the foot of a
marriage registration (probably that of the mother of the bride or
the groom) with that of a witness.

A szkolnik was an observant person of unquestionable probity. He (it
was always a male) was a student or a teacher, shul attendant and/or
overseer, or he may have had some administrative duty in the
community. A witness would be a person who could certainly read a
prayerbook and study and who would definitely have signed his
Hebrew/Yiddish name on the marriage registration.

When you look at a town's marriage registrations, you see the same
witness names over and over. Rabbis used to pick witnesses who
would accompany them to every marriage in which they officiated. It
was important for them to be able to sign both the ketuba (religious
marriage contract), and, later, a civil registration in front of the
registrar, attesting that the event had indeed occurred.

Jake Goldstein
Boston, Massachusetts, USA


Re: Israel family tree internet groups #general

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
 

I have written privately to Bea but am also posting to
the list as it is likely that others around the world
need this information as well.

JFRA Israel, a five-branched Jewish genealogical
society in Israel, maintains an English-language
discussion list with nearly 400 members. Most are in
Israel and others are in the US and other countries.

List members are happy to assist researchers no matter
where they are located.

To become a member of the JFRA List, please send a
message to our electronic media coordinator Micha
Reisel, micha@..., who will be happy to
assist.

JFRA Israel (a member of the IAJGS) looks forward to
helping you.

With best wishes,

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
dardasht1@...
schelly@...

Tracing the Tribe - The Jewish Genealogy Blog
http://tracingthetribe.blogspot.com

Subject: Israel family tree internet groups
From: "Bea" <blspabas@...>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:22:58 -0000
Dear JewishGen,

Firstly, many thanks to everyone for all your
emails, help and interest.

Secondly, I am convinced I have/had SHUEL relatives
living in Israel.

I am thus looking for a Jewish family tree group
like this one, on the internet, based in Israel, or
an Israeli SIG, but in full English, in order to make
further enquiries. Can anyone please suggest which
Israeli family tree internet groups are available?

Please email me privately.

Thank you for your help,

B.Shiel (London) blspabas@...

SHIEL, SHUEL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Israel family tree internet groups #general

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
 

I have written privately to Bea but am also posting to
the list as it is likely that others around the world
need this information as well.

JFRA Israel, a five-branched Jewish genealogical
society in Israel, maintains an English-language
discussion list with nearly 400 members. Most are in
Israel and others are in the US and other countries.

List members are happy to assist researchers no matter
where they are located.

To become a member of the JFRA List, please send a
message to our electronic media coordinator Micha
Reisel, micha@..., who will be happy to
assist.

JFRA Israel (a member of the IAJGS) looks forward to
helping you.

With best wishes,

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
dardasht1@...
schelly@...

Tracing the Tribe - The Jewish Genealogy Blog
http://tracingthetribe.blogspot.com

Subject: Israel family tree internet groups
From: "Bea" <blspabas@...>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:22:58 -0000
Dear JewishGen,

Firstly, many thanks to everyone for all your
emails, help and interest.

Secondly, I am convinced I have/had SHUEL relatives
living in Israel.

I am thus looking for a Jewish family tree group
like this one, on the internet, based in Israel, or
an Israeli SIG, but in full English, in order to make
further enquiries. Can anyone please suggest which
Israeli family tree internet groups are available?

Please email me privately.

Thank you for your help,

B.Shiel (London) blspabas@...

SHIEL, SHUEL


Re: The word "shkolnik" in marriage document #general

Jules Levin
 

At 03:22 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
Greetings,

In reviewing the translations of some family
marriage documents >from Poland (year 1890, so in0
Cyrillic), I noticed that the word "shkolnik"
was used after the names of the two people who
witnessed the wedding. One was age fifty-five,
the other seventy-three, and they were said in
the document to be illiterate. I understand that
the word "shkolnik" can mean pupil or scholar in
English. My question is, would this word be used
in this way as a matter of respect to the two
witnesses? I imagine that even though they might
have been illiterate per se, they might still
have been scholars or students of the Torah,
even at their age. I wonder whether this was a
common practice. Has anybody seen terminology
like this before in such documents?
Thanks.
I am experiencing deja vu all over again, since
this very topic was discussed some months ago,
and even the 2 shkolniki seem to have similar ages...
First, I doubt they were illiterate, except maybe
in Russian. They must have had Hebrew and Yiddish literacy.
Altho this meaning is not registered in standard
Russian dictionaries, it seems to be used for the
guys hanging around the shul--shkola!
Is there a word 'shuler'? in Yiddish? Shkolnik
would be an exact correspondance. More likely
they were shameses, rather than yeshiva bochers.
Jules Levin


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The word "shkolnik" in marriage document #general

Jules Levin
 

At 03:22 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
Greetings,

In reviewing the translations of some family
marriage documents >from Poland (year 1890, so in0
Cyrillic), I noticed that the word "shkolnik"
was used after the names of the two people who
witnessed the wedding. One was age fifty-five,
the other seventy-three, and they were said in
the document to be illiterate. I understand that
the word "shkolnik" can mean pupil or scholar in
English. My question is, would this word be used
in this way as a matter of respect to the two
witnesses? I imagine that even though they might
have been illiterate per se, they might still
have been scholars or students of the Torah,
even at their age. I wonder whether this was a
common practice. Has anybody seen terminology
like this before in such documents?
Thanks.
I am experiencing deja vu all over again, since
this very topic was discussed some months ago,
and even the 2 shkolniki seem to have similar ages...
First, I doubt they were illiterate, except maybe
in Russian. They must have had Hebrew and Yiddish literacy.
Altho this meaning is not registered in standard
Russian dictionaries, it seems to be used for the
guys hanging around the shul--shkola!
Is there a word 'shuler'? in Yiddish? Shkolnik
would be an exact correspondance. More likely
they were shameses, rather than yeshiva bochers.
Jules Levin


Belarus cemetery projects #belarus

Joyce Field
 

Fundraising for the four Belarus cemetery projects described at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=26
is continuing. Through the end of November the following amounts
were raised for each project. Total funds that need to be raised are
in parentheses.

Lenin: $645 ($1457)
Novogrudok: $690 ($1022 revised)
Oshmyany: $535 ($2759)
Volozhin: $100 ($1325)

Please continue to contribute so Lenin, Oshmyany, and Volozhin can be
started in the Spring. Make your donations online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=26
Photographing of the tombstones in the Novogrudok cemetery has been
completed and the data have been prepared; as soon as the photographs
are received, the material can be donated to JOWBR and included at
the next scheduled update, contingent on fundraising.

The sole purpose of these cemetery project is to photograph the
tombstones, to transliterate the inscriptions, and to include the
data in JOWBR, JewishGen's Online Worldwide Burial Registry,
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/. These projects cannot
begin, however, until all the funds have been contributed.

Lenin also has a yizkor book translation project and funds are needed
to begin the translation by a professional translator. Donations can
be made for this project at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.

Please give yourself and your family a Chanukah gift that will last
forever by helping to memorialize your ancestral towns through
cemetery and yizkor book projects.

Chag Sameach Chanukah.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition


Belarus SIG #Belarus Belarus cemetery projects #belarus

Joyce Field
 

Fundraising for the four Belarus cemetery projects described at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=26
is continuing. Through the end of November the following amounts
were raised for each project. Total funds that need to be raised are
in parentheses.

Lenin: $645 ($1457)
Novogrudok: $690 ($1022 revised)
Oshmyany: $535 ($2759)
Volozhin: $100 ($1325)

Please continue to contribute so Lenin, Oshmyany, and Volozhin can be
started in the Spring. Make your donations online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=26
Photographing of the tombstones in the Novogrudok cemetery has been
completed and the data have been prepared; as soon as the photographs
are received, the material can be donated to JOWBR and included at
the next scheduled update, contingent on fundraising.

The sole purpose of these cemetery project is to photograph the
tombstones, to transliterate the inscriptions, and to include the
data in JOWBR, JewishGen's Online Worldwide Burial Registry,
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/. These projects cannot
begin, however, until all the funds have been contributed.

Lenin also has a yizkor book translation project and funds are needed
to begin the translation by a professional translator. Donations can
be made for this project at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.

Please give yourself and your family a Chanukah gift that will last
forever by helping to memorialize your ancestral towns through
cemetery and yizkor book projects.

Chag Sameach Chanukah.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition