Date   

RE- Immigration data base. 11/16 I feel your pain #general

BRENERDA@...
 

Gayle,

"Try as I may, to find this simple name Louis Gold, wife Rebecca,
daughter's Ann, kate and Sarah in about 1885/6 arriving in the USA >from
Romania. I bat zero. I have used Stephen's soundexing..everything I can
think of. Is there a genius out there who can find my great grandfather
born around 1840/50."

Sometimes we just don't find them. I have been looking for years online for
the arrival of two branches of my family. I subscribe to all the services.
Even with the recently vastly expanded database online, no luck. Let me make
some suggestions while telling my sad story.

One is a family unit of 5 that arrived in late 1857. I know them as LEVY
from Koschmin, Pleschen, Posen, Prussia (now Kozmin in the Province of Greater
Poland, Poland). I have tried the most likely variations such as LEVI, LEWI
(30 in all). I have searched on each of their first names, possible
Hebrew/Yiddish names and age range. I am now in the process of looking at the
actual manifests for NYC for all of 1857, 1856 and 1858. By doing that I can
look at family units. Sometimes the surnames are so hard to read, that the
indexer has no chance to get it right. It would be wonderful if Steve could
produce a search engine that would look for multiple names within a passenger
list.

The other is BRENER/BRENNER and PADRASIC. Here I am dealing with the
1880-1895 period with 8 individuals and husband/wife that came over on different
ships! Family oral history says the original surname fir BRENER may have been
J(Y)osselawicz. Still no luck. In this case the Ports could have been NYC,
Philadelphia, Baltimore.

I know I have not solved your problem. But *never* give up!! Someday, when you
least expect it, you will stumble upon it.

David Brener, Fargo, ND


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE- Immigration data base. 11/16 I feel your pain #general

BRENERDA@...
 

Gayle,

"Try as I may, to find this simple name Louis Gold, wife Rebecca,
daughter's Ann, kate and Sarah in about 1885/6 arriving in the USA >from
Romania. I bat zero. I have used Stephen's soundexing..everything I can
think of. Is there a genius out there who can find my great grandfather
born around 1840/50."

Sometimes we just don't find them. I have been looking for years online for
the arrival of two branches of my family. I subscribe to all the services.
Even with the recently vastly expanded database online, no luck. Let me make
some suggestions while telling my sad story.

One is a family unit of 5 that arrived in late 1857. I know them as LEVY
from Koschmin, Pleschen, Posen, Prussia (now Kozmin in the Province of Greater
Poland, Poland). I have tried the most likely variations such as LEVI, LEWI
(30 in all). I have searched on each of their first names, possible
Hebrew/Yiddish names and age range. I am now in the process of looking at the
actual manifests for NYC for all of 1857, 1856 and 1858. By doing that I can
look at family units. Sometimes the surnames are so hard to read, that the
indexer has no chance to get it right. It would be wonderful if Steve could
produce a search engine that would look for multiple names within a passenger
list.

The other is BRENER/BRENNER and PADRASIC. Here I am dealing with the
1880-1895 period with 8 individuals and husband/wife that came over on different
ships! Family oral history says the original surname fir BRENER may have been
J(Y)osselawicz. Still no luck. In this case the Ports could have been NYC,
Philadelphia, Baltimore.

I know I have not solved your problem. But *never* give up!! Someday, when you
least expect it, you will stumble upon it.

David Brener, Fargo, ND


ViewMate -- Need help with 5 more Polish record translation #general

David Hoffman
 

Hello,

Thanks to RH for previous translations.

I posted five additional early 1800s Radomsko Poland
records to ViewMate at the following link:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

The files are: VM8859, VM8860, VM8861, VM8862, and
VM8863.

The direct links to the files are:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8859
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8860
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8861
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8862
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8863

If someone can help to translate/interpret the names,
date, perhaps age, witnesses, and any other pertinent
information, I would be very appreciative. As
requested by the Moderators, please send responses
directly to me at dyhoffman@... - *not* to the
list, news group or the SIG.

Thank you,
David Hoffman
dyhoffman@...
Baltimore, Maryland, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate -- Need help with 5 more Polish record translation #general

David Hoffman
 

Hello,

Thanks to RH for previous translations.

I posted five additional early 1800s Radomsko Poland
records to ViewMate at the following link:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

The files are: VM8859, VM8860, VM8861, VM8862, and
VM8863.

The direct links to the files are:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8859
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8860
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8861
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8862
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8863

If someone can help to translate/interpret the names,
date, perhaps age, witnesses, and any other pertinent
information, I would be very appreciative. As
requested by the Moderators, please send responses
directly to me at dyhoffman@... - *not* to the
list, news group or the SIG.

Thank you,
David Hoffman
dyhoffman@...
Baltimore, Maryland, USA


Re: Three marriage bans #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three
bans in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the
topic only brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?
First, we may note that when used in this meaning it is usual (and
in British English absolutely routine) to spell the word "banns" with
two n's. (Presumably this distinction originated in a desire to
distinguish this use of the word rom the word "ban" used in its more
normal meaning of "prohibition." The original meaning of "ban" was
a simply a proclamation (i.e. not necessarily limited to a
proclamation prohibiting some course of action). So in the case of
marriage a "bann" means simply a proclamation or announcement
(usually made in church) of a forthcoming marriage.

It was a requirement of ecclesiastical law, that the bann (i.e. the
announcement) be read in Church on three successive Sundays --
which obviously explains why it was and in many places still is
routine among Christians but not among Jews. (Presumably the
publication of the upcoming marriage was intended to put people on
notice, in case someone knew of some impediment to the proposed
marriage (such as that one or other party was already married!) ,
which would enable the person with that knowledge to come forward in
time to prevent the commission of a grievous sin .)

However, in cases where the civil laws of a country likewise
required the publication of the "banns" (as seems to have been the
case in Poland based on the document discussed above) presumably Jews
would automatically have followed suit, making the announcement in
the synagogue.

Judith Romney Wegner


Urke Nachalnik - Autobiographical Excerpts From the Polish Gangster #general

Jose Gutstein
 

I've added yet another in a series of articles on Urke Nachalnik, legendary
Polish gangster, who was born in Wizna, Poland.

This one contains excerpts >from one of his two autobiographical books. He
describes his youth in Wizna and Lomza, and the initial episodes which
impacted his life and drove him to a life of crime.

His depictions are riveting, and the two-bit gangster scenes >from his youth
are fascinating to read.

http://www.wizna.com/urke5.htm

...
Jose Gutstein
E-Mail: Gutstein@...
Radzilow web page: http://www.radzilow.com
Szczuczyn web page: http://www.szczuczyn.com
Wizna web page: http://www.wizna.com
Gutstein web page: http://www.gutstein.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Three marriage bans #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three
bans in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the
topic only brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?
First, we may note that when used in this meaning it is usual (and
in British English absolutely routine) to spell the word "banns" with
two n's. (Presumably this distinction originated in a desire to
distinguish this use of the word rom the word "ban" used in its more
normal meaning of "prohibition." The original meaning of "ban" was
a simply a proclamation (i.e. not necessarily limited to a
proclamation prohibiting some course of action). So in the case of
marriage a "bann" means simply a proclamation or announcement
(usually made in church) of a forthcoming marriage.

It was a requirement of ecclesiastical law, that the bann (i.e. the
announcement) be read in Church on three successive Sundays --
which obviously explains why it was and in many places still is
routine among Christians but not among Jews. (Presumably the
publication of the upcoming marriage was intended to put people on
notice, in case someone knew of some impediment to the proposed
marriage (such as that one or other party was already married!) ,
which would enable the person with that knowledge to come forward in
time to prevent the commission of a grievous sin .)

However, in cases where the civil laws of a country likewise
required the publication of the "banns" (as seems to have been the
case in Poland based on the document discussed above) presumably Jews
would automatically have followed suit, making the announcement in
the synagogue.

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Urke Nachalnik - Autobiographical Excerpts From the Polish Gangster #general

Jose Gutstein
 

I've added yet another in a series of articles on Urke Nachalnik, legendary
Polish gangster, who was born in Wizna, Poland.

This one contains excerpts >from one of his two autobiographical books. He
describes his youth in Wizna and Lomza, and the initial episodes which
impacted his life and drove him to a life of crime.

His depictions are riveting, and the two-bit gangster scenes >from his youth
are fascinating to read.

http://www.wizna.com/urke5.htm

...
Jose Gutstein
E-Mail: Gutstein@...
Radzilow web page: http://www.radzilow.com
Szczuczyn web page: http://www.szczuczyn.com
Wizna web page: http://www.wizna.com
Gutstein web page: http://www.gutstein.net


Re: Three marriage bans #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:51:09 UTC, leah25@... (leah aharoni)
wrote:

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?

Thanks in advance,
Since the mention of reading the banns (note spelling) appears in every
Polish marriage registration document I have seen, it seems clear to me that
this was a feature of local law, as influenced by Catholic practice. The
purpose of reading the banns seems even clearer: to publish the intention of
marriage so that anyone claiming an impediment to the proposed union would
learn of it.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


Re: Three marriage bans #general

tom klein <jewishgen@...>
 

Google searches for "marriage bans" are difficult because of the large
number of unrelated references to gay marriage that come up.)

As far as I know, this is a Catholic custom which was a civil requirement for
marriage in Poland, and possibly in other Catholic countries as well, such as
France.

The basic idea was to give advance notice of a wedding, by announcing it in
church on three consecutive Sundays (in some jurisdictions 10 days) prior to the
wedding date, so that anyone objecting to it could come forward. Apparently,
Jews in Poland were required to provide proof that this had been done, in order
to have the marriage recognized by the state.

....... Tom Klein, Toronto

leah aharoni <leah25@...> wrote:

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?


Re: Three marriage bans [should be *banns*] #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Leah Aharoni wrote: <An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the
three bans in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic
only brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?>

Please Leah enter the word *banns* into

1. The Jewishgen SIG message archives.
2. The General Discussion Group archives
3. "Search this site" field on the Jewishgen home page

You will get a pleasant surprise.

Now enter "Jewish banns" onto Google ..... A ban is a prohibition; a *bann* is
something else!

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Three marriage bans #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:51:09 UTC, leah25@... (leah aharoni)
wrote:

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?

Thanks in advance,
Since the mention of reading the banns (note spelling) appears in every
Polish marriage registration document I have seen, it seems clear to me that
this was a feature of local law, as influenced by Catholic practice. The
purpose of reading the banns seems even clearer: to publish the intention of
marriage so that anyone claiming an impediment to the proposed union would
learn of it.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Three marriage bans #general

tom klein <jewishgen@...>
 

Google searches for "marriage bans" are difficult because of the large
number of unrelated references to gay marriage that come up.)

As far as I know, this is a Catholic custom which was a civil requirement for
marriage in Poland, and possibly in other Catholic countries as well, such as
France.

The basic idea was to give advance notice of a wedding, by announcing it in
church on three consecutive Sundays (in some jurisdictions 10 days) prior to the
wedding date, so that anyone objecting to it could come forward. Apparently,
Jews in Poland were required to provide proof that this had been done, in order
to have the marriage recognized by the state.

....... Tom Klein, Toronto

leah aharoni <leah25@...> wrote:

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Three marriage bans [should be *banns*] #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Leah Aharoni wrote: <An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the
three bans in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic
only brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?>

Please Leah enter the word *banns* into

1. The Jewishgen SIG message archives.
2. The General Discussion Group archives
3. "Search this site" field on the Jewishgen home page

You will get a pleasant surprise.

Now enter "Jewish banns" onto Google ..... A ban is a prohibition; a *bann* is
something else!

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: Three marriage bans #general

Alan <ahssha_at_rcn_dot_com@...>
 

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?

Thanks in advance,

Leah Aharoni
---
Sender: leah aharoni <leah25@...>
There are some Google references for banns (that's the correct spelling)
in Polish synagogues. Here are two examples:

http://www.zen28027.zen.co.uk/marcert.htm is an 1867 Polish record
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/resources4.html is a 1926
Polish record

--
Alan Shuchat, Newton, Mass.
ahssha at rcn dot com

SHUCHAT (Talnoye, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Odessa, Balta (Abazovka),
Tavrig, Pogrebishche)
VINOKUR (Talnoye), KURIS (Mogilev-Podolskiy, Ataki, Berdichev)
SILVERMAN (Soroki, Kremenets), BIRNBAUM (Kamenets-Podolskiy)
KITAIGORODSKI (Zvenigorodka)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Three marriage bans #general

Alan <ahssha_at_rcn_dot_com@...>
 

An 1836 Polish marriage record mentions the reading of the three bans
in the synagogue before the marriage. A google search on the topic only
brings up Christian references.

1. Was this practice wide-spread among the Jews?
2. What's the exact nature and purpose of these bans?

Thanks in advance,

Leah Aharoni
---
Sender: leah aharoni <leah25@...>
There are some Google references for banns (that's the correct spelling)
in Polish synagogues. Here are two examples:

http://www.zen28027.zen.co.uk/marcert.htm is an 1867 Polish record
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/resources4.html is a 1926
Polish record

--
Alan Shuchat, Newton, Mass.
ahssha at rcn dot com

SHUCHAT (Talnoye, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Odessa, Balta (Abazovka),
Tavrig, Pogrebishche)
VINOKUR (Talnoye), KURIS (Mogilev-Podolskiy, Ataki, Berdichev)
SILVERMAN (Soroki, Kremenets), BIRNBAUM (Kamenets-Podolskiy)
KITAIGORODSKI (Zvenigorodka)


Return to Europe of immigrants to America #general

suhtlh@...
 

In many discussions with my mom, I found out that my great grandfather,
Reuven ROSENSWEIG, came to NY in the early 20 th century >from Hotin,
Romania (circa 1905). I know he only stayed for a few years (?). I
wanted to know how we go about learning about his life here in the
states, and why he returned to Europe.

Stephen Harris


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Return to Europe of immigrants to America #general

suhtlh@...
 

In many discussions with my mom, I found out that my great grandfather,
Reuven ROSENSWEIG, came to NY in the early 20 th century >from Hotin,
Romania (circa 1905). I know he only stayed for a few years (?). I
wanted to know how we go about learning about his life here in the
states, and why he returned to Europe.

Stephen Harris


Re: Who gets named after whom? #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Judith Romney Wegner" <jrw@...> wrote:

West European Ashkenazim did not subscribe to this superstition and in
fact often named a child after its still-living grandparent. (However,
they would normally refraint >from giving the child the same name as its
own parent -- except in the rare case when a son is born to a father who
died between the child's conception and its birth.)
My own family originated mainly >from Germany (on my father's side) and
Germany and Poland on my mother's side.

They upheld the tradition of not naming the children after a living
relative - which Judith speaks of as being a East European Jewish custom.

Having said that they came >from small villages or towns in Germany and
certainly on my father's side were very religious - indeed until fairly
recently they were rabbis.

So it is fair to suggest that they were not heavily influenced by the
European Enlightenment.

In fact, in many cases they opposed the Reform or Reform religious
tendencies in Germany - so far as writing to the Government of Bavaria to
ask them not to permit choirs in synagogue.

I would therefore say that counter-generalisations might also not reflect
accurately the whole picture regarding "West European Ashkenazim". The
customs that Judith speaks of are unknown to me and I would regard my
origins as mainly >from West European Ashkenazim - except for a Russian
greatgrandfather.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Who gets named after whom? #general

Nick <tulse04-news1@...>
 

"Judith Romney Wegner" <jrw@...> wrote:

West European Ashkenazim did not subscribe to this superstition and in
fact often named a child after its still-living grandparent. (However,
they would normally refraint >from giving the child the same name as its
own parent -- except in the rare case when a son is born to a father who
died between the child's conception and its birth.)
My own family originated mainly >from Germany (on my father's side) and
Germany and Poland on my mother's side.

They upheld the tradition of not naming the children after a living
relative - which Judith speaks of as being a East European Jewish custom.

Having said that they came >from small villages or towns in Germany and
certainly on my father's side were very religious - indeed until fairly
recently they were rabbis.

So it is fair to suggest that they were not heavily influenced by the
European Enlightenment.

In fact, in many cases they opposed the Reform or Reform religious
tendencies in Germany - so far as writing to the Government of Bavaria to
ask them not to permit choirs in synagogue.

I would therefore say that counter-generalisations might also not reflect
accurately the whole picture regarding "West European Ashkenazim". The
customs that Judith speaks of are unknown to me and I would regard my
origins as mainly >from West European Ashkenazim - except for a Russian
greatgrandfather.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)