The Telsiai District Research Group of LitvakSIG has recently distributed
data >from the following records:

Barstyciai 1880 Voters List
Barstyciai 1893 Voters List
Seda 1886 Real Estate Owners List
Telsiai Uyezd 1914 Military List: Army Draftees Certificates w/Photos
Telsiai Uyezd 1914 Certificates

If you are interested in learning more about our group, please visit our
informational website at:

http://homepage.mac.com/deenaberton/telsiai_sig_info

Or, feel free to contact me privately.

Deena Berton
Telsiai Uyezd Coordinator
LitvakSIG
deenahome@camcom.com

The Telsiai District Research Group of LitvakSIG has recently distributed
data >from the following records:

Barstyciai 1880 Voters List
Barstyciai 1893 Voters List
Seda 1886 Real Estate Owners List
Telsiai Uyezd 1914 Military List: Army Draftees Certificates w/Photos
Telsiai Uyezd 1914 Certificates

If you are interested in learning more about our group, please visit our
informational website at:

http://homepage.mac.com/deenaberton/telsiai_sig_info

Or, feel free to contact me privately.

Deena Berton
Telsiai Uyezd Coordinator
LitvakSIG
deenahome@camcom.com

Welcome Laura to our SIG. Just as a starter - I know this tree >from the
HAMMERSCHLAG and JOSEPHSON side not the PANETH angle, but it should not
be hard to find out in Vienna what the links are.

Isaac JOSEPHSON [dob late 1700s?] of Berlin married Charlotte LOWENBERGER [dob
abt 1800]. They had three girls [they probably had sons but I do not know of
them yet]: Elise, Betti and Fanni. Isaac and Charlotte JOSEPHSON are the gtgtgt
grandparents of Laura O'Brien >from Enfield, London.

Here are the marriages of the three Berlin JOSEPHSON girls:

1. Elise {Lieschen] JOSEPHSON married an ALTSCHUL >from Dresden - sons Charles
and William in USA see http://www.smokershistory.com/GAI.htm re the connection
between ALTSCHUL and SCHWAB families in the US Financial area. Whetehrteh
ALTSCHUL were actually Bohemian or Moravian, I am not sure - I know of a few
Prague and Olmutz families who settled in Dresden.

You can see Elise ALTSCHUL born abt 1819 crossing the Atlantic on 26 Aug 1881
probably to stay with her son Charles - I suspect her husband had already died.

On 14 Oct 1863 another 5 yr old Elise ALTSCHUL [US citizen] crosses the
Atlantic with Sara 42, Rosa 20, Emilie 9 and Clementine 7.

These are probably the children of Charles who also crosses the Atlantic a
number of times as a merchant.

see also http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/indiv/lehsuite/guides/Altschul.html
for the archive where you see correspondence between the ALTSCHUL and
HAMMERSCHLAG and PANETH cousins and many others.

2. Fanni JOSEPHSON [born abt 1834] married Adolf Abraham SCHWAB and they lived
in Vienna:

SCHWAB Adolf aged 63 buried 21.01.1897 Zentralfriedhof Gate 1 Gp 8 row 62 grave
14 with Fanny [nee JOSEPHSON] aged 80 buried 18.05.1914

Their daughter, Margarethe was married to Hugo FURTH [buried Doblingerfriedhof]
Margarethe's sister Sophie married Josef PANETH [Freud's close friend].

Josef PANETH and his wife Sofie [sic] are buried in the ZF [non-Jewish section]

- if you check you will see that the PANETH burials are scattered in the
Zentral Friedhof between the Jewish sections in Tor I and IV and the non-Jewish
section as well as Doblinger Friedhof. There are three Josef and one Laura
PANETH burials in Vienna. It will be necessary to unravel the relationship
between all these PANETH using the probate and other vital records in Vienna.

Josef and Sophie PANETH had a son Otto [the gt-grandfather of Laura] who
married Marie FURTH; his brothers were Friederich and Ludwig search for PANETH
here:

http://www.hyle.org/journal/issues/3/ruthenb.htm and
http://www.matrikel.unizh.ch/pages/679.htm

and this must be Marie nee FURTH [PANETH], who is Laura's gt-grandmother:
http://www.infed.org/youthwork/bm-pan.htm

I have not worked out if these FURTH in-laws are related and whether they are
related to the Sanatorium FURTH family >from Bohemia we have already discussed
[see message archives].

3. Betti - Babette JOSEPHSON [born Berlin 21 Feb 1825] married the famous Dr
Samuel HAMMERSCHLAG, Freud's beloved Hebrew teacher and first librarian of the
IKG, Vienna. Samuel was born in Bohmische Leipa June 4 1826 [see message
archives]. Samuel and Betti HAMMERSCHLAG were the uncle and aunt of Sophie
PANETH. Zentral Friedhof Vienna, Gate 1 Gp 20 Row 1 Grave 84

HAMMERSCHLAG Samuel aged 78 - buried 10 Nov 1904
with Betti aged 90 buried 3 April 1916

Laura obviously has many distant cousins she does not know! I only know of one
ALTSCHUL in NY I have corresponded with - he wanted to know his relationship to
the DUSCHNITZ family.

Laura and I have one joint relative: Tony Max DUNNING [ne DUSCHNITZ] now sadly
deceased, who was my third-cousin and intriguingly he is Laura's fourth cousin.
Tony's first cousin, accompanist Martin ISEPP is also Laura's fourth cousin,
but not related to me:
http://www.nationaloperastudio.org.uk/staffbiogs/isepp.htm

Martin's piano teacher though, Leonie GOMBRICH, was my grandfather's first
cousin and also my mother's piano teacher ... links links links.

As far as I know, Laura and I are not related but I am very glad we have met on
the SIG and Laura has at last posted her query here, nearly a year after
registering her family on the JGFF!

Celia Male [U.K.]

Welcome Laura to our SIG. Just as a starter - I know this tree >from the
HAMMERSCHLAG and JOSEPHSON side not the PANETH angle, but it should not
be hard to find out in Vienna what the links are.

Isaac JOSEPHSON [dob late 1700s?] of Berlin married Charlotte LOWENBERGER [dob
abt 1800]. They had three girls [they probably had sons but I do not know of
them yet]: Elise, Betti and Fanni. Isaac and Charlotte JOSEPHSON are the gtgtgt
grandparents of Laura O'Brien >from Enfield, London.

Here are the marriages of the three Berlin JOSEPHSON girls:

1. Elise {Lieschen] JOSEPHSON married an ALTSCHUL >from Dresden - sons Charles
and William in USA see http://www.smokershistory.com/GAI.htm re the connection
between ALTSCHUL and SCHWAB families in the US Financial area. Whetehrteh
ALTSCHUL were actually Bohemian or Moravian, I am not sure - I know of a few
Prague and Olmutz families who settled in Dresden.

You can see Elise ALTSCHUL born abt 1819 crossing the Atlantic on 26 Aug 1881
probably to stay with her son Charles - I suspect her husband had already died.

On 14 Oct 1863 another 5 yr old Elise ALTSCHUL [US citizen] crosses the
Atlantic with Sara 42, Rosa 20, Emilie 9 and Clementine 7.

These are probably the children of Charles who also crosses the Atlantic a
number of times as a merchant.

see also http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/indiv/lehsuite/guides/Altschul.html
for the archive where you see correspondence between the ALTSCHUL and
HAMMERSCHLAG and PANETH cousins and many others.

2. Fanni JOSEPHSON [born abt 1834] married Adolf Abraham SCHWAB and they lived
in Vienna:

SCHWAB Adolf aged 63 buried 21.01.1897 Zentralfriedhof Gate 1 Gp 8 row 62 grave
14 with Fanny [nee JOSEPHSON] aged 80 buried 18.05.1914

Their daughter, Margarethe was married to Hugo FURTH [buried Doblingerfriedhof]
Margarethe's sister Sophie married Josef PANETH [Freud's close friend].

Josef PANETH and his wife Sofie [sic] are buried in the ZF [non-Jewish section]

- if you check you will see that the PANETH burials are scattered in the
Zentral Friedhof between the Jewish sections in Tor I and IV and the non-Jewish
section as well as Doblinger Friedhof. There are three Josef and one Laura
PANETH burials in Vienna. It will be necessary to unravel the relationship
between all these PANETH using the probate and other vital records in Vienna.

Josef and Sophie PANETH had a son Otto [the gt-grandfather of Laura] who
married Marie FURTH; his brothers were Friederich and Ludwig search for PANETH
here:

http://www.hyle.org/journal/issues/3/ruthenb.htm and
http://www.matrikel.unizh.ch/pages/679.htm

and this must be Marie nee FURTH [PANETH], who is Laura's gt-grandmother:
http://www.infed.org/youthwork/bm-pan.htm

I have not worked out if these FURTH in-laws are related and whether they are
related to the Sanatorium FURTH family >from Bohemia we have already discussed
[see message archives].

3. Betti - Babette JOSEPHSON [born Berlin 21 Feb 1825] married the famous Dr
Samuel HAMMERSCHLAG, Freud's beloved Hebrew teacher and first librarian of the
IKG, Vienna. Samuel was born in Bohmische Leipa June 4 1826 [see message
archives]. Samuel and Betti HAMMERSCHLAG were the uncle and aunt of Sophie
PANETH. Zentral Friedhof Vienna, Gate 1 Gp 20 Row 1 Grave 84

HAMMERSCHLAG Samuel aged 78 - buried 10 Nov 1904
with Betti aged 90 buried 3 April 1916

Laura obviously has many distant cousins she does not know! I only know of one
ALTSCHUL in NY I have corresponded with - he wanted to know his relationship to
the DUSCHNITZ family.

Laura and I have one joint relative: Tony Max DUNNING [ne DUSCHNITZ] now sadly
deceased, who was my third-cousin and intriguingly he is Laura's fourth cousin.
Tony's first cousin, accompanist Martin ISEPP is also Laura's fourth cousin,
but not related to me:
http://www.nationaloperastudio.org.uk/staffbiogs/isepp.htm

Martin's piano teacher though, Leonie GOMBRICH, was my grandfather's first
cousin and also my mother's piano teacher ... links links links.

As far as I know, Laura and I are not related but I am very glad we have met on
the SIG and Laura has at last posted her query here, nearly a year after
registering her family on the JGFF!

Celia Male [U.K.]

I had some information on the origin or history of the Lithuanian/
Russian system of Crown or State Rabbis, but unfornately have
misplaced it.

Can anyone tell me when the system started and if there is an
existing listing of the locations of the rabbinates.

Thanks,
Ann Rabinowitz

I had some information on the origin or history of the Lithuanian/
Russian system of Crown or State Rabbis, but unfornately have
misplaced it.

Can anyone tell me when the system started and if there is an
existing listing of the locations of the rabbinates.

Thanks,
Ann Rabinowitz

Hello,

I would very much appreciate help locating the geographical location of the
monument to Kletzk victims shown on Viewmate #VM9159. Here is the direct
link:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9159

It seems almost certain that this monument is somewhere in the U.S.,
probably at a landsmanshaften burial plot. I found this picture in a
landsmanshaft publication, but there is no caption describing its location.

Does anyone know the location of this monument?

Please send your responses directly to me at the email address below.

Many thanks in advance!

Henry

Henry Neugass
Palo Alto, CA
Wysokie-Litewske: GRYNFELD, ZUBOFF
Kletsk: KIRZNER

henryn@zzzspacebbs.com remove 'zzz'

Hello,

I would very much appreciate help locating the geographical location of the
monument to Kletzk victims shown on Viewmate #VM9159. Here is the direct
link:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9159

It seems almost certain that this monument is somewhere in the U.S.,
probably at a landsmanshaften burial plot. I found this picture in a
landsmanshaft publication, but there is no caption describing its location.

Does anyone know the location of this monument?

Please send your responses directly to me at the email address below.

Many thanks in advance!

Henry

Henry Neugass
Palo Alto, CA
Wysokie-Litewske: GRYNFELD, ZUBOFF
Kletsk: KIRZNER

henryn@zzzspacebbs.com remove 'zzz'

Hi

I have 3 documents that I would like assistance translating:

The first two are Polish and the 3rd is either Czech or Slovakl.

This is some document >from 1885.
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9092

This one is a "Karta Przemystowa" >from 1858 (as a note my gg grandmother
was born in 1858)
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9093

I also have one (a "domovksy list") that is either in Czech or Slovak

from Braislava in 1923

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9091

Much Thanks in advance - todah rabah!

Ron Kaminker
LA CA, nee Buffalo, NY

Hi

I have 3 documents that I would like assistance translating:

The first two are Polish and the 3rd is either Czech or Slovakl.

This is some document >from 1885.
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9092

This one is a "Karta Przemystowa" >from 1858 (as a note my gg grandmother
was born in 1858)
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9093

I also have one (a "domovksy list") that is either in Czech or Slovak

from Braislava in 1923

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D9091

Much Thanks in advance - todah rabah!

Ron Kaminker
LA CA, nee Buffalo, NY

My Aunt and Uncle belonged to the Shepetovka Sdilkov Verein here in the Chicago,
area many years ago. Interested if anyone else knows of this group, or my
relatives,
Sylvia (Schuchman) and Itzik Haas (Aspiz).

Sherwin Dubren

My Aunt and Uncle belonged to the Shepetovka Sdilkov Verein here in the Chicago,
area many years ago. Interested if anyone else knows of this group, or my
relatives,
Sylvia (Schuchman) and Itzik Haas (Aspiz).

Sherwin Dubren

If you scan an online list of transcribed names and see an obvious or
probable error, please perform anonymous charity. Take the time to
check out the error and send a correction.

I realize that some sites don't make it easy. Ellis Island has a link

from the person's record that brings up your e-mail program. If you use

an online account, you are forced to copy this information. The big
commercial site also has a link >from the person's record, but you must
be a member to make the correction.

Zev Griner
PANCER,GRINER,ZAJDEL,LAIZER/LAJZER/LEIZER/LEJZER,BAUM/BOIM,LAPERDON
Zamosc,Tomaszow,Jarczow
SAVARICK Russia.

If you scan an online list of transcribed names and see an obvious or
probable error, please perform anonymous charity. Take the time to
check out the error and send a correction.

I realize that some sites don't make it easy. Ellis Island has a link

from the person's record that brings up your e-mail program. If you use

an online account, you are forced to copy this information. The big
commercial site also has a link >from the person's record, but you must
be a member to make the correction.

Zev Griner
PANCER,GRINER,ZAJDEL,LAIZER/LAJZER/LEIZER/LEJZER,BAUM/BOIM,LAPERDON
Zamosc,Tomaszow,Jarczow
SAVARICK Russia.

David Rosen wrote on December 23, 2006:

"The Times describes a May, 1944 incident when the Serpa Pinto, traveling
fully lighted, was stopped in mid-ocean by a German U-Boat. While the
U-Boat commander threatened to sink the ship, 385 passengers and crew were
forced to the lifeboats only to be allowed to re-board nine hours later."

In her excellent book "Judeus em Portugal durante a II Guerra Mundial, Em
fuga de Hitler e do Holocausto" (Jews in Portugal during the second WW - the
flight away >from Hitler and the Holocaust), Irene Flunser Pimentel refers to
this incident which happened on 26 May 1944 on the Serpa Pinto. Three
people drowned as a result: a doctor, Antonio Ferreira Machado, a cook,
Hermano Antonio and a 16-month old child, Beatrice Trapunski, the daughter
of a Polish couple who had visas for Canada. According to a report by the
Portuguese Marine Department, the Germans retained two young U.S.
passengers. This indicates that the purpose was to stop young men fit for
combat joining the Allied forces.

Paula Hauser
Brussels

Hi, it's me again, the Zinkov kid. I have another approach for finding my
elusive family, again, they can be >from "anywhere" in the vicinity of
Zinkov. Does anyone have the following couples in their family tree?

ZE'EV/WOLF and ESTER FAGIE. They were probably born in the 1820s, maybe
early 1830s. Some names that "might" appear in their families [or the
families of their children] are: Yechiel, Haskel and Sophia.

YERUHEM FISHEL and ROSA PEPPER (or some variation of PEPPER, it can be
PFEFER, etc.). Pepper was Rosa's maiden name. I'm not including Yeruhem
Fishel's surname as I have some questions about it's accuracy and am open to
hearing >from anyone whose ancestors were a couple by those names. I think
that they were also born in the 1820s or 1830s. I think that Rosa died in
childbirth about 1872 and Yeruhem Fishel died sometime before 1884. He was
some sort of an inspector.

Again, I look forward to hearing >from anyone whose has anything that might
be even remotely related to or sounds like the above information.

Please contact me privately and again, thanks so much for your time.

Regards,
Linda Silverman Shefler
Cary, NC
linsilv@nc.rr.com

David Rosen wrote on December 23, 2006:

"The Times describes a May, 1944 incident when the Serpa Pinto, traveling
fully lighted, was stopped in mid-ocean by a German U-Boat. While the
U-Boat commander threatened to sink the ship, 385 passengers and crew were
forced to the lifeboats only to be allowed to re-board nine hours later."

In her excellent book "Judeus em Portugal durante a II Guerra Mundial, Em
fuga de Hitler e do Holocausto" (Jews in Portugal during the second WW - the
flight away >from Hitler and the Holocaust), Irene Flunser Pimentel refers to
this incident which happened on 26 May 1944 on the Serpa Pinto. Three
people drowned as a result: a doctor, Antonio Ferreira Machado, a cook,
Hermano Antonio and a 16-month old child, Beatrice Trapunski, the daughter
of a Polish couple who had visas for Canada. According to a report by the
Portuguese Marine Department, the Germans retained two young U.S.
passengers. This indicates that the purpose was to stop young men fit for
combat joining the Allied forces.

Paula Hauser
Brussels

Hi, it's me again, the Zinkov kid. I have another approach for finding my
elusive family, again, they can be >from "anywhere" in the vicinity of
Zinkov. Does anyone have the following couples in their family tree?

ZE'EV/WOLF and ESTER FAGIE. They were probably born in the 1820s, maybe
early 1830s. Some names that "might" appear in their families [or the
families of their children] are: Yechiel, Haskel and Sophia.

YERUHEM FISHEL and ROSA PEPPER (or some variation of PEPPER, it can be
PFEFER, etc.). Pepper was Rosa's maiden name. I'm not including Yeruhem
Fishel's surname as I have some questions about it's accuracy and am open to
hearing >from anyone whose ancestors were a couple by those names. I think
that they were also born in the 1820s or 1830s. I think that Rosa died in
childbirth about 1872 and Yeruhem Fishel died sometime before 1884. He was
some sort of an inspector.

Again, I look forward to hearing >from anyone whose has anything that might
be even remotely related to or sounds like the above information.

Please contact me privately and again, thanks so much for your time.

Regards,
Linda Silverman Shefler
Cary, NC
linsilv@nc.rr.com

Does anyone know where the name "BURMIL" or "BERMIL" originated? I know that my
family left the Kolomea Galicia area for the USA in the early 1900s, but there
do not appear to be any BURMIL/BERMIL records >from that area.

Thanks,
David Hoffman
Baltimore, MD
dyhoffman@yahoo.com

Does anyone know where the name "BURMIL" or "BERMIL" originated? I know that my
family left the Kolomea Galicia area for the USA in the early 1900s, but there
do not appear to be any BURMIL/BERMIL records >from that area.

Thanks,
David Hoffman
Baltimore, MD
dyhoffman@yahoo.com