Date   
Re: Translation Help -- Yiddish or Hebrew #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 8:40 PM -0700 6/5/06, Stewart Bernstein wrote:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

# VM 7930-Tombstone inscription, probably in Yiddishor Hebrew.
Inscription may have the name Niestempoweras part of the text.

# VM 7929-Back of post card >from Poland. I believe the handwriting
may be in Polish. It does not look likeYiddish. The text may include
the names Berl & Golda Niestempower.
Dear Stewart:

This was very interesting so I am replying to the group at large.

First, you are correct that VM 7929 is written in a European
language (which I can't translate, but could be Polish). The reason
it "does not look like Yiddish" (as you put it) is because Yiddish
is traditionally written in Hebrew characters -- never in Latin
characters; transliteration into Latin alphabet letters is only a
modern concession for the benefit of those who have lost the ability
to readthe Hebrew alphabet.

Second, the stone has an interesting (and in one respect rather
puzzling) inscription. It is of course in Hebrew -- they normally are
-- except that this one happens to gives the man's surname, obviously
in Yiddish; it also gives the Yiddish word "gestorben" (meaning
"died") right before the date.

The first two lines are in Hebrew:
'eyneynu yor'dot mayim 'al petirat avinu ha-yaqar
"our eyes drip with water[i.e., tears] on the departure of our dear father"

The inscription does NOT mention either "Berl" or "Golda." In
fact it does not mention any woman at all, only the man who is buried
there. His Hebrew name was Gershon ben R. Abraham Lev Niestenfaver.
Note that the "R." stands for "Reb" -- which means simply "Mr." and
not "Rabbi" as people often mistakenly suppose. (The surname as
written looks more like Niestenfauver -- (with an "n" in the middle,
not an "m" -- and with a double "vav", which normally indicates a
consonantal "v" sound) (If you have European language documents
referring to this person, that will prsumably solve the
name-pronunciation for you. (But it definitely has an "n" in the
middle, not an "m.")

The date is a bit of a mystery; it says 15th of something or other
1930, but he month is blurred in this photograph and hard to read.
It looks like mem aleph bet, which could stand for the Hebrew month
Menahem-Av (which is the full name of the month of Av). If so, this
corresponded with August 9th in 1930. But the next line seems to
contradict that date, it appears to say 8th Heshvan (which
corresponded with 30th October in 1930). I can't explain this
discrepancy, does anyone have any ideas?

Finally the five large Hebrew letters at the bottom are a standard
abbreviation found on all traditional Jewish gravestones They stand
for the Hebrew words t'hi nafsho ts'rurah bi-tsror ha-hayyim, which
means "may his soul be bound up in the bond of [eternal] life."

I hope someone can solve the mystery of those two discrepant dates!

Judith Romney Wegner

MODERATOR NOTE: Ordinarily we ask for ViewMate responses to be sent privately,
but Dr Wegner has raised some points that public posting may help resolve.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Translation Help -- Yiddish or Hebrew #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 8:40 PM -0700 6/5/06, Stewart Bernstein wrote:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

# VM 7930-Tombstone inscription, probably in Yiddishor Hebrew.
Inscription may have the name Niestempoweras part of the text.

# VM 7929-Back of post card >from Poland. I believe the handwriting
may be in Polish. It does not look likeYiddish. The text may include
the names Berl & Golda Niestempower.
Dear Stewart:

This was very interesting so I am replying to the group at large.

First, you are correct that VM 7929 is written in a European
language (which I can't translate, but could be Polish). The reason
it "does not look like Yiddish" (as you put it) is because Yiddish
is traditionally written in Hebrew characters -- never in Latin
characters; transliteration into Latin alphabet letters is only a
modern concession for the benefit of those who have lost the ability
to readthe Hebrew alphabet.

Second, the stone has an interesting (and in one respect rather
puzzling) inscription. It is of course in Hebrew -- they normally are
-- except that this one happens to gives the man's surname, obviously
in Yiddish; it also gives the Yiddish word "gestorben" (meaning
"died") right before the date.

The first two lines are in Hebrew:
'eyneynu yor'dot mayim 'al petirat avinu ha-yaqar
"our eyes drip with water[i.e., tears] on the departure of our dear father"

The inscription does NOT mention either "Berl" or "Golda." In
fact it does not mention any woman at all, only the man who is buried
there. His Hebrew name was Gershon ben R. Abraham Lev Niestenfaver.
Note that the "R." stands for "Reb" -- which means simply "Mr." and
not "Rabbi" as people often mistakenly suppose. (The surname as
written looks more like Niestenfauver -- (with an "n" in the middle,
not an "m" -- and with a double "vav", which normally indicates a
consonantal "v" sound) (If you have European language documents
referring to this person, that will prsumably solve the
name-pronunciation for you. (But it definitely has an "n" in the
middle, not an "m.")

The date is a bit of a mystery; it says 15th of something or other
1930, but he month is blurred in this photograph and hard to read.
It looks like mem aleph bet, which could stand for the Hebrew month
Menahem-Av (which is the full name of the month of Av). If so, this
corresponded with August 9th in 1930. But the next line seems to
contradict that date, it appears to say 8th Heshvan (which
corresponded with 30th October in 1930). I can't explain this
discrepancy, does anyone have any ideas?

Finally the five large Hebrew letters at the bottom are a standard
abbreviation found on all traditional Jewish gravestones They stand
for the Hebrew words t'hi nafsho ts'rurah bi-tsror ha-hayyim, which
means "may his soul be bound up in the bond of [eternal] life."

I hope someone can solve the mystery of those two discrepant dates!

Judith Romney Wegner

MODERATOR NOTE: Ordinarily we ask for ViewMate responses to be sent privately,
but Dr Wegner has raised some points that public posting may help resolve.

A Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #yizkorbooks

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks A Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #yizkorbooks

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #ukraine

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #ukraine

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

A Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #belarus

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Belarus SIG #Belarus A Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #belarus

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

HOGG, IREDALE, SWINHOE, NOSBOM, GOLDWATER names in France #france

desire rolande
 

Good afternoon,

I subscribed to different Jewishgen groups.

For the French one, I am looking for the above
mentionned families'names.

If some of these names is known by somebody, thank you
to make me know.

Yours faithfully.

Claudine

French SIG #France HOGG, IREDALE, SWINHOE, NOSBOM, GOLDWATER names in France #france

desire rolande
 

Good afternoon,

I subscribed to different Jewishgen groups.

For the French one, I am looking for the above
mentionned families'names.

If some of these names is known by somebody, thank you
to make me know.

Yours faithfully.

Claudine

Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #austria-czech

Carol W Skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

A field guide to visiting a jewish cemetery #romania

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #austria-czech

Carol W Skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Romania SIG #Romania A field guide to visiting a jewish cemetery #romania

cskydell@...
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone inscriptions,
decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you are
visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at a
special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing <g>
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
cskydell@...

Re: Czech search engine: Could ROZENBERK be a "sound-alike?" #austria-czech

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

Oh yeah, it could be! Final g's are "hard" in German - more like K than G...

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

----------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is this: ROZENBERG (or, obviously, ROSENBERG) is one of my
family's surnames.

These spellings did not show up on the search engine but, linked to several
different people, ROZEMBERK did appear.

Could ROZEMBERK possibly be a "sound-alike" for ROZENBERG?

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Czech search engine: Could ROZENBERK be a "sound-alike?" #austria-czech

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

Oh yeah, it could be! Final g's are "hard" in German - more like K than G...

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

----------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is this: ROZENBERG (or, obviously, ROSENBERG) is one of my
family's surnames.

These spellings did not show up on the search engine but, linked to several
different people, ROZEMBERK did appear.

Could ROZEMBERK possibly be a "sound-alike" for ROZENBERG?

Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #romania

Mark Vigder <mark.vigder@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone
inscriptions, decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common
inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you
are visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at
a special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

Visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

Romania SIG #Romania Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish Cemetery #romania

Mark Vigder <mark.vigder@...>
 

Snowbound cemeteries are now cleared for visiting and genealogical
sleuthing!

Be sure to include your camera, hedgeclippers, notebook, pencils, whisk
broom and Rabbi Joshua Segal's "Field Guide to Visiting a Jewish
Cemetery"....the quintessential tool for unlocking tombstone
inscriptions, decoding dates and deciphering many of the more common
inscriptions.

Rabbi Segal's soft cover book is a necessary "bring-along" whether you
are visiting a cemetery in North America, Europe or Israel since the
inscriptions are similar. The book is available in the JewishGenMall at
a special conference discounted price of only $18 plus S& H.

Visit www.jewishgenmall.org and enter the title, A Field Guide to
Visiting a Jewish Cemetery, or the product code JCP101

Happy hunting and successful sleuthing
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

* Re: Czech search engine: Could ROZENBERK be a "sound-alike?" #austria-czech

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Judy,

The problem with the ROSENBERG surname and alike spellings is that it
can be either a Jewish or a non-Jewish family name. Recall Alfred Rosenberg,
a prominent Nazi ideologue. In my opinion, but I'm not sure, ROZEMBERK could
be a different spelling of ROSENBERG. Both names have the same Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex code (946795).

Good luck
Tom

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

--------- At 00:05 -0500 06.06.2006, Austria-Czech SIG digest wrote/escreveu:


My question is this: ROZENBERG (or, obviously, ROSENBERG) is one of my
family's surnames.

These spellings did not show up on the search engine but, linked to several
different people, ROZEMBERK did appear.

Could ROZEMBERK possibly be a "sound-alike" for ROZENBERG?
--

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech * Re: Czech search engine: Could ROZENBERK be a "sound-alike?" #austria-czech

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Judy,

The problem with the ROSENBERG surname and alike spellings is that it
can be either a Jewish or a non-Jewish family name. Recall Alfred Rosenberg,
a prominent Nazi ideologue. In my opinion, but I'm not sure, ROZEMBERK could
be a different spelling of ROSENBERG. Both names have the same Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex code (946795).

Good luck
Tom

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

--------- At 00:05 -0500 06.06.2006, Austria-Czech SIG digest wrote/escreveu:


My question is this: ROZENBERG (or, obviously, ROSENBERG) is one of my
family's surnames.

These spellings did not show up on the search engine but, linked to several
different people, ROZEMBERK did appear.

Could ROZEMBERK possibly be a "sound-alike" for ROZENBERG?
--