Date   
ROSENTHAL in Britain #general

Walter Rosenthal <rwrx@...>
 

Background: My father, Samuel ROSENTHAL, was born in NYC in 1890. His
parents obviously arrived sometime earlier. Both his birth and marriage
certificates list his father's name as Wolf and his mother's maiden name as
Annie Rosenthal, the same as her husband. My grandmother (Annie) told me
that she came >from Europe through England. Her cousins who remained in
Britain who had no direct memory of her

Question: Which sources can I use to determine the possible British
embarcation ports in 1888-1890. This might give me the ships' names, each
ship's manifest, which could then provide my grandparents' European home
town? If I can locate the town, then further research might bring me closer
to finding my roots.

Any help will be most appreciated.

Walter Rosenthal

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ROSENTHAL in Britain #general

Walter Rosenthal <rwrx@...>
 

Background: My father, Samuel ROSENTHAL, was born in NYC in 1890. His
parents obviously arrived sometime earlier. Both his birth and marriage
certificates list his father's name as Wolf and his mother's maiden name as
Annie Rosenthal, the same as her husband. My grandmother (Annie) told me
that she came >from Europe through England. Her cousins who remained in
Britain who had no direct memory of her

Question: Which sources can I use to determine the possible British
embarcation ports in 1888-1890. This might give me the ships' names, each
ship's manifest, which could then provide my grandparents' European home
town? If I can locate the town, then further research might bring me closer
to finding my roots.

Any help will be most appreciated.

Walter Rosenthal

Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel Genealogical Society #hungary

Klausner
 

Shalom,
The May 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society just appeared.
Below is the Table of Contents of the Journal.
Thank you and best wishes, Yocheved

Yocheved Klausner, Editor
Sharsheret Hadorot (bilingual: Hebrew and English)
Israel Genealogical Society (IGS)

Visit our Website: www.isragen.org.il

Sharsheret Hadorot, May 2006 Vol. 20, No. 2

Contents

The Family of Rabbi Yehuda Ashkenazi, by Jona Schellekens, Ben Noach and
Moshe Mossel
On the Rapaport Family Name, by Chanan Rapaport.
A Good Name is Like Good Oil - Origins of the Name Kam, by Michael Kam
Shemesh Tzedakah, by Shalom Bronstein
A Family Quest in Istanbul, by Daniel Kazez.
The Wimple that came home 60 years later, by Carl Alpert
The Fulfilled Blessing of a Tzadik, by Yehuda Klausner

Moderator: Please direct inquiries to Yocheved.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel Genealogical Society #hungary

Klausner
 

Shalom,
The May 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society just appeared.
Below is the Table of Contents of the Journal.
Thank you and best wishes, Yocheved

Yocheved Klausner, Editor
Sharsheret Hadorot (bilingual: Hebrew and English)
Israel Genealogical Society (IGS)

Visit our Website: www.isragen.org.il

Sharsheret Hadorot, May 2006 Vol. 20, No. 2

Contents

The Family of Rabbi Yehuda Ashkenazi, by Jona Schellekens, Ben Noach and
Moshe Mossel
On the Rapaport Family Name, by Chanan Rapaport.
A Good Name is Like Good Oil - Origins of the Name Kam, by Michael Kam
Shemesh Tzedakah, by Shalom Bronstein
A Family Quest in Istanbul, by Daniel Kazez.
The Wimple that came home 60 years later, by Carl Alpert
The Fulfilled Blessing of a Tzadik, by Yehuda Klausner

Moderator: Please direct inquiries to Yocheved.

Re: Registration for Hungarian Research Session #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

Hello Vivian,

I may be out of date, and have not followed all info.
Location and cost of the IAJGS conference?
Is anybody going to create a video-tape of your session on Hungarian
research? Something that could be distribuuted to those not able to attend? Video,
or other distribution may be of interest to others as well.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

In a message dated 6/4/2006 11:45:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vkahn@... writes:
I'm very pleased about the interest in the workshop I'm presenting at
the IAJGS conference on Hungarian research sources on the web.
Registration for this session opens on Sunday and will continue until
the numbers exceed available computers. I believe that we can handle
25 students per session. The session will be on Thursday, August
17, >from 2:45 to 4 pm.

This promises to be an outstanding conference. Click on http://
www.jgsny2006.org/ to check the program on-line. Make sure to leave
time for the Hungarian SIG business meeting, which will be held right
before the workshop >from 1:15 PM - 2:30 PM on Thursday, and the
Hungarian SIG luncheon at 12:30 on Tuesday, Aug. 15. We're working
out arrangements w. our luncheon speaker and hope to have an
announcement very soon.

Vivian Kahn, H-SIG Coordinator

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Registration for Hungarian Research Session #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

Hello Vivian,

I may be out of date, and have not followed all info.
Location and cost of the IAJGS conference?
Is anybody going to create a video-tape of your session on Hungarian
research? Something that could be distribuuted to those not able to attend? Video,
or other distribution may be of interest to others as well.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

In a message dated 6/4/2006 11:45:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vkahn@... writes:
I'm very pleased about the interest in the workshop I'm presenting at
the IAJGS conference on Hungarian research sources on the web.
Registration for this session opens on Sunday and will continue until
the numbers exceed available computers. I believe that we can handle
25 students per session. The session will be on Thursday, August
17, >from 2:45 to 4 pm.

This promises to be an outstanding conference. Click on http://
www.jgsny2006.org/ to check the program on-line. Make sure to leave
time for the Hungarian SIG business meeting, which will be held right
before the workshop >from 1:15 PM - 2:30 PM on Thursday, and the
Hungarian SIG luncheon at 12:30 on Tuesday, Aug. 15. We're working
out arrangements w. our luncheon speaker and hope to have an
announcement very soon.

Vivian Kahn, H-SIG Coordinator

New Online Budapest Resource #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <rutabegatree@...>
 

Hi all,

Yesterday I happened to check Janos Bogardi's Radix Log
<www.radixlog.com> and was greeted by a posting of his >from just a
couple days ago, announcing the release of a new database >from the
Budapest Municipal Archives (Budapest Fovaros Leveltara). As Janos
described, the database (located at <http://tarstort.bparchiv.hu/
tarstort/simplesearch.html>:

"...contains metadata about the documents in the holdings of the
archives, covering the following subject areas:
- Probate cases (provenience: court records, public notaries'
records), 1915-1955, full coverage.
- Various records of public notaries, 1875-1950. As of now, the
period of 1875-1900 is covered the most in the database.
- Cases at various courthouses in Budapest, 1872-1895. The Court of
Budapest is fully processed.
- Last wills and testaments, 1896-1950, fully processed, the period
of 1699-1873 is under processing.
- Orphans' courts' records, first records planned to be released in
2006. "

I have already queried the database for several of my family names
with some definite and very promising hits - this looks like a
fantastic resource for those of us with family in Budapest. However,
everything is in Hungarian, which makes it a little more difficult
for those of us whose knowledge of Hungarian is practically nil... I
don't know how copies of the original documents can be requested >from
the archive, nor do I know anything more about the source materials
than was described at Radix Log. But maybe one of you folks who
knows more Hungarian than I do (which isn't hard because I know about
5 words!) can elucidate us all... :)

Rebecca Fenning
Los Angeles, Ca.

Hungary SIG #Hungary New Online Budapest Resource #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <rutabegatree@...>
 

Hi all,

Yesterday I happened to check Janos Bogardi's Radix Log
<www.radixlog.com> and was greeted by a posting of his >from just a
couple days ago, announcing the release of a new database >from the
Budapest Municipal Archives (Budapest Fovaros Leveltara). As Janos
described, the database (located at <http://tarstort.bparchiv.hu/
tarstort/simplesearch.html>:

"...contains metadata about the documents in the holdings of the
archives, covering the following subject areas:
- Probate cases (provenience: court records, public notaries'
records), 1915-1955, full coverage.
- Various records of public notaries, 1875-1950. As of now, the
period of 1875-1900 is covered the most in the database.
- Cases at various courthouses in Budapest, 1872-1895. The Court of
Budapest is fully processed.
- Last wills and testaments, 1896-1950, fully processed, the period
of 1699-1873 is under processing.
- Orphans' courts' records, first records planned to be released in
2006. "

I have already queried the database for several of my family names
with some definite and very promising hits - this looks like a
fantastic resource for those of us with family in Budapest. However,
everything is in Hungarian, which makes it a little more difficult
for those of us whose knowledge of Hungarian is practically nil... I
don't know how copies of the original documents can be requested >from
the archive, nor do I know anything more about the source materials
than was described at Radix Log. But maybe one of you folks who
knows more Hungarian than I do (which isn't hard because I know about
5 words!) can elucidate us all... :)

Rebecca Fenning
Los Angeles, Ca.

Salt Lake City #hungary

Barbara Franchi <bf@...>
 

Hi

I will be going to Salt Lake City in June. I will have only about 1/2
day to research in the library there. Can anyone give me any hints on
where to go to find the records of KisVarda, Hungary or Novosad, now
Slovakia or Bobrka bei Lemburg (now L'viv) Ukraine?

Thank you in advance.
--
Barbara Franchi (bf@...)
http://www/reviewingtheevidence.com
Researching: PASSEL,PESSEL, GAN (Bobrka, Ukr) FRANK (Kis Varda,
Hungary) GOODMAN, NEWMAN, NEUWIRTH (Novosad, Slovakia) FRANCHI, IACOPPI
(Parma, Piacenza, Italy)

Moderator: Have you checked the on-line FHL Catalogue? Tom Venetianer recently provided a tip on how to search the catalogue for records >from specific places. Go to http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp and click on "keyword search"
Enter Slovakia Jewish, Hungary Jewish, or Romania Jewish, etc. as appropriate in the search block. In addition to listings of books and censuses, you will get links to entries of Jewish vital record films in many Hungarian towns as well as formerly Hungarian places that are now in Slovakia, Romania, Ukraine, etc. Click on the "order results by title" button and the search returns will appear in alphabetical order.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Salt Lake City #hungary

Barbara Franchi <bf@...>
 

Hi

I will be going to Salt Lake City in June. I will have only about 1/2
day to research in the library there. Can anyone give me any hints on
where to go to find the records of KisVarda, Hungary or Novosad, now
Slovakia or Bobrka bei Lemburg (now L'viv) Ukraine?

Thank you in advance.
--
Barbara Franchi (bf@...)
http://www/reviewingtheevidence.com
Researching: PASSEL,PESSEL, GAN (Bobrka, Ukr) FRANK (Kis Varda,
Hungary) GOODMAN, NEWMAN, NEUWIRTH (Novosad, Slovakia) FRANCHI, IACOPPI
(Parma, Piacenza, Italy)

Moderator: Have you checked the on-line FHL Catalogue? Tom Venetianer recently provided a tip on how to search the catalogue for records >from specific places. Go to http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp and click on "keyword search"
Enter Slovakia Jewish, Hungary Jewish, or Romania Jewish, etc. as appropriate in the search block. In addition to listings of books and censuses, you will get links to entries of Jewish vital record films in many Hungarian towns as well as formerly Hungarian places that are now in Slovakia, Romania, Ukraine, etc. Click on the "order results by title" button and the search returns will appear in alphabetical order.

Pronunciation of woman's given name, "Gisella" #hungary

HeyJudy123@...
 

The branch of my mother's family that hailed >from the part of the world that
presently is the modern country of Slovakia, but which had been Hungary when
they left for the USA, c. 1885, had several women named "Gisella" as members.

It has been well-settled on the "Hungarian Special Interest Group" ("H-Sig")
that "Gisella" was a fairly popular name for Hungarian-Jewish woman, and
that its nickname often was "Katie."

My mother, now in her 80's, clearly remembers one of her mother's cousins
with the name.

This woman had stopped in New York after leaving Hungary, staying with my
mother's family for a period during the 1920's. Then, she moved on to
Cleveland and my mother never saw her again. (Again, the participants of the H-Sig
have made it clear that there was a disproportionately large settlement of
immigrant Hungarian Jews in the Cleveland area.)

Here is my question. It seems to me that this name should be pronounced
GIZZ-el-ah or GIZ-zel-lah (or GHIZZ-el-ah or GHIZ-zel-lah) but my mother
pronounces it "GIH-hel-la." No "Z" or "S" sound at all.

Is this a known pronunciation of the name or is it that, 80 years later, my
mother still is parroting her own baby talk?

And, if anyone knows of a "Gihhella" or her descendants in the Cleveland
area, please contact me privately!

thanks,
Judy SEGAL
New York City USA

Hungary SIG #Hungary Pronunciation of woman's given name, "Gisella" #hungary

HeyJudy123@...
 

The branch of my mother's family that hailed >from the part of the world that
presently is the modern country of Slovakia, but which had been Hungary when
they left for the USA, c. 1885, had several women named "Gisella" as members.

It has been well-settled on the "Hungarian Special Interest Group" ("H-Sig")
that "Gisella" was a fairly popular name for Hungarian-Jewish woman, and
that its nickname often was "Katie."

My mother, now in her 80's, clearly remembers one of her mother's cousins
with the name.

This woman had stopped in New York after leaving Hungary, staying with my
mother's family for a period during the 1920's. Then, she moved on to
Cleveland and my mother never saw her again. (Again, the participants of the H-Sig
have made it clear that there was a disproportionately large settlement of
immigrant Hungarian Jews in the Cleveland area.)

Here is my question. It seems to me that this name should be pronounced
GIZZ-el-ah or GIZ-zel-lah (or GHIZZ-el-ah or GHIZ-zel-lah) but my mother
pronounces it "GIH-hel-la." No "Z" or "S" sound at all.

Is this a known pronunciation of the name or is it that, 80 years later, my
mother still is parroting her own baby talk?

And, if anyone knows of a "Gihhella" or her descendants in the Cleveland
area, please contact me privately!

thanks,
Judy SEGAL
New York City USA

Re: Hungarian help on Viewmate #hungary

Tomas Lang <tlang@...>
 

An other opinion:

the abreviation "p.p." was used (before introducing ZIP-codes) as "posledna
posta",
that means "last post office" = closest post office which delivered the
postings when no local office operated.

Tomi LANG
Nove Zamky/Slovakia
===========================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hlavinka" <j-hlavinka@...>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Hungarian help on Viewmate


The "p.p." in the address of Fany Szrulovics >from Zavadka (
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7887)

stands for "postova podatelna" / most probably/ what one can translate as
"Post office".

Best,
Jan Hlavinka

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re:Hungarian help on Viewmate #hungary

Tomas Lang <tlang@...>
 

An other opinion:

the abreviation "p.p." was used (before introducing ZIP-codes) as "posledna
posta",
that means "last post office" = closest post office which delivered the
postings when no local office operated.

Tomi LANG
Nove Zamky/Slovakia
===========================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hlavinka" <j-hlavinka@...>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Hungarian help on Viewmate


The "p.p." in the address of Fany Szrulovics >from Zavadka (
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7887)

stands for "postova podatelna" / most probably/ what one can translate as
"Post office".

Best,
Jan Hlavinka

Ekaterinoslav along exit route from Kiev region to U.S.? #ukraine

Jay Paul <jpaul54@...>
 

I cannot figure out a puzzle: two members of my father's family, the
Pavlovskijs, born and raised in Antonovka, Vasilkov uezd, Kiev
gubernia, who emigrated to the United States between 1903 and 1904,
list their birthplace in U.S. documents as you would expect (oftentimes
"Kiev"), but list their last residence prior to leaving the Russian
Empire as Ekaterinoslav. >from census records in the Kiev area, I
certainly know that they couldn't have been there very long. Although
it seems like a round-about direction to be choosing to emigrate >from
the Russian Empire, I am wondering if this is somehow a route that some
people took -- either because there was a railway that was a transit
route or because some people followed the Dnieper. Does anyone have any
information on this, so I can know if my relatives simply had an
idiosyncratic journey >from their original home to the U.S., or if this
was somehow a standard route for some?

Thanks for any information.

Jay P. Paul
San Francisco CA

Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Ekaterinoslav along exit route from Kiev region to U.S.? #ukraine

Jay Paul <jpaul54@...>
 

I cannot figure out a puzzle: two members of my father's family, the
Pavlovskijs, born and raised in Antonovka, Vasilkov uezd, Kiev
gubernia, who emigrated to the United States between 1903 and 1904,
list their birthplace in U.S. documents as you would expect (oftentimes
"Kiev"), but list their last residence prior to leaving the Russian
Empire as Ekaterinoslav. >from census records in the Kiev area, I
certainly know that they couldn't have been there very long. Although
it seems like a round-about direction to be choosing to emigrate >from
the Russian Empire, I am wondering if this is somehow a route that some
people took -- either because there was a railway that was a transit
route or because some people followed the Dnieper. Does anyone have any
information on this, so I can know if my relatives simply had an
idiosyncratic journey >from their original home to the U.S., or if this
was somehow a standard route for some?

Thanks for any information.

Jay P. Paul
San Francisco CA

Re: Censii and Vital records integrity #hungary

Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
 

Such discrepances may be disturbing, but are worth of careful analysis.
Very often I found a family in a 1869 Census, where apparently all or some
of the children were not born by the wife ( age discrepancy) registered in
the Census, but obviously by first wife, which died before Nov.1869.
Jozsef and Yehuda is the same man.
Simon and Samuel are also being used for the same person, although not so
often.
In marriage records, one has to be careful too; to "be from" and being "born
in" are not always the same places.
With female given names there can be instances, where several names appear.
The best thing to do is just to keep them all tied to one person and wait
till all records are exhausted and then take the most probable version. The
younger the records ( death for example) the better the chance is, that the
name will be correct.
To positively identify one person in relation to others only a name is not
enough. There must be several cross references to have it confirmed.
Vladimir Bohinc
Nove Mesto nad Vahom
Slovakia

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Censii and Vital records integrity
From: alex p miller <alex.miller@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:36:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

Hello Friends,

Here is a mini comparison to discourage anyone >from putting too much
stock into the 19th Century records.

I compared a few items in the vital records vs the census of 1869 in
Cigand, Zemplen CO. Here are some troubling differences I found: A "/"
separates the discrepant entries)

Guttman Simon/Sam, age 24/21, born in Cigand/Keresztur
Wife is Gluck Perl/Peppisz
Schwartz Jozsef/Yehuda
Elefant Emanuel married to Eszter Adler/Guttman/ Klein--same children
Weisz Bernat born in Cigand/Ladmoc
He is married to Rezsi/Rozina gluck/Sloszer >from Cigand/Poruba
Krausz Kati/Zsani is married to Joszef/Jehuda Schwartz

It is easy to get hung up on some discrepancy like these and misdirect
your research!

Best Regards,

Alex Miller, Chester CO. PA
alex.miller@...

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re:Censii and Vital records integrity #hungary

Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
 

Such discrepances may be disturbing, but are worth of careful analysis.
Very often I found a family in a 1869 Census, where apparently all or some
of the children were not born by the wife ( age discrepancy) registered in
the Census, but obviously by first wife, which died before Nov.1869.
Jozsef and Yehuda is the same man.
Simon and Samuel are also being used for the same person, although not so
often.
In marriage records, one has to be careful too; to "be from" and being "born
in" are not always the same places.
With female given names there can be instances, where several names appear.
The best thing to do is just to keep them all tied to one person and wait
till all records are exhausted and then take the most probable version. The
younger the records ( death for example) the better the chance is, that the
name will be correct.
To positively identify one person in relation to others only a name is not
enough. There must be several cross references to have it confirmed.
Vladimir Bohinc
Nove Mesto nad Vahom
Slovakia

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Censii and Vital records integrity
From: alex p miller <alex.miller@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:36:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

Hello Friends,

Here is a mini comparison to discourage anyone >from putting too much
stock into the 19th Century records.

I compared a few items in the vital records vs the census of 1869 in
Cigand, Zemplen CO. Here are some troubling differences I found: A "/"
separates the discrepant entries)

Guttman Simon/Sam, age 24/21, born in Cigand/Keresztur
Wife is Gluck Perl/Peppisz
Schwartz Jozsef/Yehuda
Elefant Emanuel married to Eszter Adler/Guttman/ Klein--same children
Weisz Bernat born in Cigand/Ladmoc
He is married to Rezsi/Rozina gluck/Sloszer >from Cigand/Poruba
Krausz Kati/Zsani is married to Joszef/Jehuda Schwartz

It is easy to get hung up on some discrepancy like these and misdirect
your research!

Best Regards,

Alex Miller, Chester CO. PA
alex.miller@...

Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel Genealogical Society #germany

Klausner
 

Shalom,
The May 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society just appeared.
Below is the Table of Contents of May 2006 Vol. 20, No. 2
Thank you and best wishes, Yocheved

Yocheved Klausner, Editor "Sharsheret Hadorot" (bilingual: Hebrew and English)
Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) Visit our Website: www.isragen.org.il

The Family of Rabbi Yehuda Ashkenazi, by Jona Schellekens, Ben Noach and
Moshe Mossel
On the RAPAPORT Family Name, by Chanan Rapaport.
A Good Name is Like Good Oil - Origins of the Name KAM, by Michael Kam
Shemesh Tzedakah, by Shalom Bronstein
A Family Quest in Istanbul, by Daniel Kazez.
The Wimple that came home 60 years later, by Carl Alpert
The Fulfilled Blessing of a Tzadik, by Yehuda Klausner

German SIG #Germany Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel Genealogical Society #germany

Klausner
 

Shalom,
The May 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society just appeared.
Below is the Table of Contents of May 2006 Vol. 20, No. 2
Thank you and best wishes, Yocheved

Yocheved Klausner, Editor "Sharsheret Hadorot" (bilingual: Hebrew and English)
Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) Visit our Website: www.isragen.org.il

The Family of Rabbi Yehuda Ashkenazi, by Jona Schellekens, Ben Noach and
Moshe Mossel
On the RAPAPORT Family Name, by Chanan Rapaport.
A Good Name is Like Good Oil - Origins of the Name KAM, by Michael Kam
Shemesh Tzedakah, by Shalom Bronstein
A Family Quest in Istanbul, by Daniel Kazez.
The Wimple that came home 60 years later, by Carl Alpert
The Fulfilled Blessing of a Tzadik, by Yehuda Klausner