Date   

Searching in France for two brothers - both Doctors #general

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I am searching for a family in France. The only clues I have are:

1) There are two brothers, both doctors.
2) I only have the given names which are Daniel and Marc.
3) They have a sister, Michelle.
4) Their mother is Irene
5) The doctors could possibly be practising in either Paris or Strassburg

Stan ZEIDENBERG
Toronto, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching in France for two brothers - both Doctors #general

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I am searching for a family in France. The only clues I have are:

1) There are two brothers, both doctors.
2) I only have the given names which are Daniel and Marc.
3) They have a sister, Michelle.
4) Their mother is Irene
5) The doctors could possibly be practising in either Paris or Strassburg

Stan ZEIDENBERG
Toronto, Canada


Re: Viewmate VM8197 - Igowsk Location? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:12:29 UTC, shawnkates@rogers.com (Shawn Kates)
opined:

Hi Everyone,

I have posted a file on the ViewMate site, as file - VM8197
(http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate)

Could someone please view the attached document >from Ellis Island Manifest.
It is my ggm, Gussie Katz, who had Igowsk, Russia as her last place of
residence, however the manifest looks like something else? Or has anyone
ever heard of Igowsk, I cannot find any record of this location?

Please respond to me directly at shawnkates@rogers.com

Best regards,
Shawn.

Shawn Kates
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Researching - KATZ (Orsha, Zhitomir), LIPSHITS (Kiev), KELMAN (Berdichev ,
Kiev), SIROTA (Kiev), CHITRANSKY (Abramavo, Dmitrovichi, Kaments-Litovskie -
Poland), BESSNER (Bukovina), NUSBAUM (Galician).
"Igowsk" is a wildly improbable name for a place in Russia or anywhere else
in the Slavic region. Although the penmanship is, as usual, execrable, I
make the fourth letter an R, followed by something indeterminate, so
"Igor_sk"(where the blank is probably a vowel>, which makes some sense.
Unfortunately, I don't find such a place in my large Soviet era world atlas.
This means only that the place was small. But you might be able to chase it
down in the preciously-named "Shtetl Seeker" on the JewishGen site.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: Zloczow Nigun Sought #rabbinic

Dick Plotz
 

On 2006.07.16, Joyce Field <jfield@nlci.com> wrote:

Thank you to all the people who responded to my request for Reb
Yiekhiel Mekhl Zlotchover's Nigun. Each person added important
information about how to locate the Nigun, which I relayed to
Meylakh.

One person sent me an online source for this Nigun,
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media.asp?AID=140697, which I am
posting for all to see. It is an amazing source which others may
find useful.
A warning to those who might want to listen to this nigun: when I
tried the link to listen, my browser hung and I lost ongoing work
in other windows. Before trying this link, make sure you're not
working on anything else you would mind losing, or use a different
browser.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA

[Moderator's Note: Dr. Plotz uses Safari as his browser...]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Viewmate VM8197 - Igowsk Location? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:12:29 UTC, shawnkates@rogers.com (Shawn Kates)
opined:

Hi Everyone,

I have posted a file on the ViewMate site, as file - VM8197
(http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate)

Could someone please view the attached document >from Ellis Island Manifest.
It is my ggm, Gussie Katz, who had Igowsk, Russia as her last place of
residence, however the manifest looks like something else? Or has anyone
ever heard of Igowsk, I cannot find any record of this location?

Please respond to me directly at shawnkates@rogers.com

Best regards,
Shawn.

Shawn Kates
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Researching - KATZ (Orsha, Zhitomir), LIPSHITS (Kiev), KELMAN (Berdichev ,
Kiev), SIROTA (Kiev), CHITRANSKY (Abramavo, Dmitrovichi, Kaments-Litovskie -
Poland), BESSNER (Bukovina), NUSBAUM (Galician).
"Igowsk" is a wildly improbable name for a place in Russia or anywhere else
in the Slavic region. Although the penmanship is, as usual, execrable, I
make the fourth letter an R, followed by something indeterminate, so
"Igor_sk"(where the blank is probably a vowel>, which makes some sense.
Unfortunately, I don't find such a place in my large Soviet era world atlas.
This means only that the place was small. But you might be able to chase it
down in the preciously-named "Shtetl Seeker" on the JewishGen site.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: Zloczow Nigun Sought #rabbinic

Dick Plotz
 

On 2006.07.16, Joyce Field <jfield@nlci.com> wrote:

Thank you to all the people who responded to my request for Reb
Yiekhiel Mekhl Zlotchover's Nigun. Each person added important
information about how to locate the Nigun, which I relayed to
Meylakh.

One person sent me an online source for this Nigun,
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media.asp?AID=140697, which I am
posting for all to see. It is an amazing source which others may
find useful.
A warning to those who might want to listen to this nigun: when I
tried the link to listen, my browser hung and I lost ongoing work
in other windows. Before trying this link, make sure you're not
working on anything else you would mind losing, or use a different
browser.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA

[Moderator's Note: Dr. Plotz uses Safari as his browser...]


Re: Caro---Clechchovia #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/18/2006 11:35:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Jslevey@aol.com writes:

< On my grtgrandfather's side, I found that his mother and her parents (my
grtgrtgrandmother and my grtgrtgrtgrandparents) had the name Caro and are listed
in one census as having been born in Clechchovia and another census says Deu
Poland. I either find nothing on Shtetlfinder or over 1000 possible matches
if I don't narrow it to Poland. Since I see a reference to Poland in one
census, I'm assuming they were >from Poland.
Anyone have any ideas or info as to where Clechchovia could be or what "Deu,
Poland" means? >

==OK, the last question is easy: "German Poland"

==Here's an answer to a question you didn't ask: The Caros are a famous
Sefardi family. The most famous Caro was the compiler of the Shulchan Arukh,
the 16th century compilation of Jewish law, that is still the basic authority
today for rabbis. A long column of Caros is listed in the Encyclopedia Judaica.

==Lars Menk lists CARO in his Dictionary of German Jewish Surnames. I
suggest you look it up at your local library. Most of them are >from Silesia, an
area that Prussia annexed >from Poland and that was ceded back to Poland in 1945.
The main cities he listed were Posen and Glogau. I tried checking out
Clechchovia but my local heatwave and thunderstorms interefered too much with my
light and thus my vision.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Caro---Clechchovia #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/18/2006 11:35:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Jslevey@aol.com writes:

< On my grtgrandfather's side, I found that his mother and her parents (my
grtgrtgrandmother and my grtgrtgrtgrandparents) had the name Caro and are listed
in one census as having been born in Clechchovia and another census says Deu
Poland. I either find nothing on Shtetlfinder or over 1000 possible matches
if I don't narrow it to Poland. Since I see a reference to Poland in one
census, I'm assuming they were >from Poland.
Anyone have any ideas or info as to where Clechchovia could be or what "Deu,
Poland" means? >

==OK, the last question is easy: "German Poland"

==Here's an answer to a question you didn't ask: The Caros are a famous
Sefardi family. The most famous Caro was the compiler of the Shulchan Arukh,
the 16th century compilation of Jewish law, that is still the basic authority
today for rabbis. A long column of Caros is listed in the Encyclopedia Judaica.

==Lars Menk lists CARO in his Dictionary of German Jewish Surnames. I
suggest you look it up at your local library. Most of them are >from Silesia, an
area that Prussia annexed >from Poland and that was ceded back to Poland in 1945.
The main cities he listed were Posen and Glogau. I tried checking out
Clechchovia but my local heatwave and thunderstorms interefered too much with my
light and thus my vision.

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: Levy/Levi/Caro #general

david nathan <d.nathan1@...>
 

Janette wrote:

<<I posted recently about searching for my roots on my father's side of the
family. I was able to find a lot in the British censuses. My great grandparents
were born in England. On my grgrandmother's line it looks like I may be able
to trace back to my grtgrtgrtgrtgrandmother in England in the 1780's. I'll
post the details in a separate post soon.

On my grtgrandfather's side, I found that his mother and her parents (my
grtgrtgrandmother and my grtgrtgrtgrandparents) had the name Caro and are listed
in one census as having been born in Clechchovia and another census says Deu
Poland. I either find nothing on Shtetlfinder or over 1000 possible matches
if I don't narrow it to Poland. Since I see a reference to Poland in one
census, I'm assuming they were >from Poland.

Anyone have any ideas or info as to where Clechchovia could be or what "Deu,
Poland" means?

Thanks for whatever anyone is able to suggest.

Janette Levey Frisch>>

Janette,

You will find that British censuses (censusi?) only started in 1841 so you
may have difficulty getting much information without a lot of deep digging.
BMD records were only centralised - at the Family Records Centre - from
1837. Before that you will have to depend on records by many church
parishes. If your family is of Sephardi origin, the records of the Spanish
and Portuguese Synagogue, otherwise known as Bevis Marks, in London, go back
to the late 1600s or early 1700s.

Good luck and be sure to let us know how you get on.

David Nathan, London, England

PS. By the way, the 'Deu' could be an abbreviation for Deutsch or Germany.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Levy/Levi/Caro #general

david nathan <d.nathan1@...>
 

Janette wrote:

<<I posted recently about searching for my roots on my father's side of the
family. I was able to find a lot in the British censuses. My great grandparents
were born in England. On my grgrandmother's line it looks like I may be able
to trace back to my grtgrtgrtgrtgrandmother in England in the 1780's. I'll
post the details in a separate post soon.

On my grtgrandfather's side, I found that his mother and her parents (my
grtgrtgrandmother and my grtgrtgrtgrandparents) had the name Caro and are listed
in one census as having been born in Clechchovia and another census says Deu
Poland. I either find nothing on Shtetlfinder or over 1000 possible matches
if I don't narrow it to Poland. Since I see a reference to Poland in one
census, I'm assuming they were >from Poland.

Anyone have any ideas or info as to where Clechchovia could be or what "Deu,
Poland" means?

Thanks for whatever anyone is able to suggest.

Janette Levey Frisch>>

Janette,

You will find that British censuses (censusi?) only started in 1841 so you
may have difficulty getting much information without a lot of deep digging.
BMD records were only centralised - at the Family Records Centre - from
1837. Before that you will have to depend on records by many church
parishes. If your family is of Sephardi origin, the records of the Spanish
and Portuguese Synagogue, otherwise known as Bevis Marks, in London, go back
to the late 1600s or early 1700s.

Good luck and be sure to let us know how you get on.

David Nathan, London, England

PS. By the way, the 'Deu' could be an abbreviation for Deutsch or Germany.


Re: Question regarding naming patterns & religion #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

Dayna <zoeys_mom@yahoo.com> wrote:

I've had a fairly easy time figuring out naming
patterns for 3 of my 4 family branches, but my
Zeidee's family is giving me some trouble.
Now, perhaps I've simply not gone back far enough in
the tree to find certain names, but what I have so far
looks like the names were mostly original.
For example: my Zeidee (Natan Leib) had 7 siblings:
Motel, Yehuda, Dwera, Golda, Elka, Hinde, Channa.
While Dwera was the name of the paternal grandmother,
none of the other names (including my Zeidee's name)
can be found anywhere in the family tree of either the
mother or father. Both grandfathers were named
Eliah/Eliahu, and I do know that the paternal great-GF
was Yisrael, and the maternal grandmother was Rocha. I
also know that the maternal g-GF was Velvel. These
names are nowhere (although a sister of my g-GM did
name her daughter Rose in 1894, I assume for her
mother Rocha, which means that Rocha was dead by the
time my g-GM had her first child in 1895).
I suppose it is possible that the grandparents were
alive when the children were born (although this has
not proven true in any of the other lines of my
family), but one would imagine the great GPs would be
represented someplace.
It is possible that the children were named after people
who were not family members. In particular, hassidim
often name children after their rebbe or rebbetzin, or
previous rebbes and rebbetzins.

I also found a photograph of my Zeidee's family while
they were still in Russia (they were >from Olszany, now
Golshany in Belarus) and was shocked to see that his
mother was not wearing a shetl (or any other head
covering, although the photo was taken outdoors and
there is snow on the ground).
Perhaps you mean a tichel. A sheitel is a wig, a tichel
is a kerchief. If she was wearing a sheitel, that might
not be obvious in a photo.

My Zeidee was an extremely devout man, so we always
assumed he came >from a devout family, but now I'm not
so sure. Can I assume anything about the lack of a
shetl on my g-GM, or >from the seeming lack of a naming
pattern?
It is not possible to make such assumptions. The fact is
that some practices that nowadays are badges of
orthodoxy were not always universally followed by frum
people in previous generations. In particular, many very
frum married women did not cover their hair.

Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Question regarding naming patterns & religion #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

Dayna <zoeys_mom@yahoo.com> wrote:

I've had a fairly easy time figuring out naming
patterns for 3 of my 4 family branches, but my
Zeidee's family is giving me some trouble.
Now, perhaps I've simply not gone back far enough in
the tree to find certain names, but what I have so far
looks like the names were mostly original.
For example: my Zeidee (Natan Leib) had 7 siblings:
Motel, Yehuda, Dwera, Golda, Elka, Hinde, Channa.
While Dwera was the name of the paternal grandmother,
none of the other names (including my Zeidee's name)
can be found anywhere in the family tree of either the
mother or father. Both grandfathers were named
Eliah/Eliahu, and I do know that the paternal great-GF
was Yisrael, and the maternal grandmother was Rocha. I
also know that the maternal g-GF was Velvel. These
names are nowhere (although a sister of my g-GM did
name her daughter Rose in 1894, I assume for her
mother Rocha, which means that Rocha was dead by the
time my g-GM had her first child in 1895).
I suppose it is possible that the grandparents were
alive when the children were born (although this has
not proven true in any of the other lines of my
family), but one would imagine the great GPs would be
represented someplace.
It is possible that the children were named after people
who were not family members. In particular, hassidim
often name children after their rebbe or rebbetzin, or
previous rebbes and rebbetzins.

I also found a photograph of my Zeidee's family while
they were still in Russia (they were >from Olszany, now
Golshany in Belarus) and was shocked to see that his
mother was not wearing a shetl (or any other head
covering, although the photo was taken outdoors and
there is snow on the ground).
Perhaps you mean a tichel. A sheitel is a wig, a tichel
is a kerchief. If she was wearing a sheitel, that might
not be obvious in a photo.

My Zeidee was an extremely devout man, so we always
assumed he came >from a devout family, but now I'm not
so sure. Can I assume anything about the lack of a
shetl on my g-GM, or >from the seeming lack of a naming
pattern?
It is not possible to make such assumptions. The fact is
that some practices that nowadays are badges of
orthodoxy were not always universally followed by frum
people in previous generations. In particular, many very
frum married women did not cover their hair.

Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada


Determining "Jewish" Identity Through DNA Testing #dna

Naidia Woolf <rnwoolf@...>
 

According to Joan Hartman's posting on 7/16, "Jews are mostly found
in haplogroup J." I'd be interested in knowing where that info came
from and the basis of what to me, at least, seems to be no more than
an assumption or hypothesis. After all, as we all know, Judaism is
not a race or ethnicity, it is a religion.

After I got my mtDNA results, I was advised that there was no way of
knowing whether I was "Jewish."

I quote:
"Jewish ancestry is not an exact genetic result. However, by way of
comparison [to other individuals' test results] we can tell _whether
or not a line is likely to be Jewish in origin_ [my emphasis] and
this seems more than possible with your results ."

At the same time I was informed that I was "matching many people who
had listed Eastern European countries for their origins" and that
meant there was a "stronger possibility" of my own country of origin
being the same as theirs.

As presumably everyone in this group knows, the mt(mitochondrial)
DNA is a genetic material is passed down >from females to sons and
daughters. My direct maternal line is haplogroup V, a European
haplogroup found mainly in Spain and Finland.

My results were as follows:
HVR1 Haplogroup V
HVR1 differences >from CRS (the Cambridge Reference Sequence) 16153A
and 16298C

For anyone interested in the distant past of DNA, I've been informed
that haplogroup V is primarily European [in origin] and underwent an
expansion within Europe beginning approximately 13,000 years ago and
that individuals in haplogroup V were involved in the colonization
of Europe subsequent to the last ice age.

My question is: why is that individuals who belong in the "J'
haplogroup can identify themselves as Jews (and seem to have even
isolated a "cohen gene") whereas I am unable to do so!

Any suggestions or input will be appreciated.

Naidia Woolf
San Francisco, CA


DNA Research #DNA Determining "Jewish" Identity Through DNA Testing #dna

Naidia Woolf <rnwoolf@...>
 

According to Joan Hartman's posting on 7/16, "Jews are mostly found
in haplogroup J." I'd be interested in knowing where that info came
from and the basis of what to me, at least, seems to be no more than
an assumption or hypothesis. After all, as we all know, Judaism is
not a race or ethnicity, it is a religion.

After I got my mtDNA results, I was advised that there was no way of
knowing whether I was "Jewish."

I quote:
"Jewish ancestry is not an exact genetic result. However, by way of
comparison [to other individuals' test results] we can tell _whether
or not a line is likely to be Jewish in origin_ [my emphasis] and
this seems more than possible with your results ."

At the same time I was informed that I was "matching many people who
had listed Eastern European countries for their origins" and that
meant there was a "stronger possibility" of my own country of origin
being the same as theirs.

As presumably everyone in this group knows, the mt(mitochondrial)
DNA is a genetic material is passed down >from females to sons and
daughters. My direct maternal line is haplogroup V, a European
haplogroup found mainly in Spain and Finland.

My results were as follows:
HVR1 Haplogroup V
HVR1 differences >from CRS (the Cambridge Reference Sequence) 16153A
and 16298C

For anyone interested in the distant past of DNA, I've been informed
that haplogroup V is primarily European [in origin] and underwent an
expansion within Europe beginning approximately 13,000 years ago and
that individuals in haplogroup V were involved in the colonization
of Europe subsequent to the last ice age.

My question is: why is that individuals who belong in the "J'
haplogroup can identify themselves as Jews (and seem to have even
isolated a "cohen gene") whereas I am unable to do so!

Any suggestions or input will be appreciated.

Naidia Woolf
San Francisco, CA


I seek Any And All Information On David & Marcos Fajkes/Faikes-Argentina-Buenos Aires #general

sacredsisters3@aol.com <sacredsisters3@...>
 

Hello All

I am seeking any and all information on David & Marcos Fajkes/Faikes,
siblings of my grandfather Milton. I already have copies of their death
records, so I know they lived and died there. David, who never married
died in 1996 and Marcos died in 1989. Marcos had kids, but I do not
know how many. I do know that one of his daughters married and had twin
boys, which are my grandfather's great-nephews.

I only know one of their names because in 1998 he sent my grandfather a
card. His name is Sebastian BURD, and I am assuming he still lives in
Argentina. I would love to find out where he is and contact him. He
would be in his middle 30's. David & Marcos left poland in 1928 to go
to Argentina. Their other siblings, Rose(Faikes)Friedman came to New
York in 1922, the mother Riva/Rywa(widowed) in 1928-29, and my
grandfather Milton in 1932. The mother died in Brooklyn, New York in
the 1940's.

If, anyone out there can help me do research on my grandfathers family
or help me get in touch with descendants that would be great.

Sarah Greenberg(USA)
sacredsisters3@aol.com
Faikes/Fajkes


Re: Question regarding naming patterns & religion #general

Cyndee Meystel <cmeys@...>
 

Very true. My husband's great-grandmother always covered her hair (with a
"parouk" -- a forerunner of today's sheitel) and she was convinced to remove
it to be photographed bare headed for the one existing portrait
(professional quality) we have of her.
--
Cyndee Meystel
Chicago, IL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen I seek Any And All Information On David & Marcos Fajkes/Faikes-Argentina-Buenos Aires #general

sacredsisters3@aol.com <sacredsisters3@...>
 

Hello All

I am seeking any and all information on David & Marcos Fajkes/Faikes,
siblings of my grandfather Milton. I already have copies of their death
records, so I know they lived and died there. David, who never married
died in 1996 and Marcos died in 1989. Marcos had kids, but I do not
know how many. I do know that one of his daughters married and had twin
boys, which are my grandfather's great-nephews.

I only know one of their names because in 1998 he sent my grandfather a
card. His name is Sebastian BURD, and I am assuming he still lives in
Argentina. I would love to find out where he is and contact him. He
would be in his middle 30's. David & Marcos left poland in 1928 to go
to Argentina. Their other siblings, Rose(Faikes)Friedman came to New
York in 1922, the mother Riva/Rywa(widowed) in 1928-29, and my
grandfather Milton in 1932. The mother died in Brooklyn, New York in
the 1940's.

If, anyone out there can help me do research on my grandfathers family
or help me get in touch with descendants that would be great.

Sarah Greenberg(USA)
sacredsisters3@aol.com
Faikes/Fajkes


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Question regarding naming patterns & religion #general

Cyndee Meystel <cmeys@...>
 

Very true. My husband's great-grandmother always covered her hair (with a
"parouk" -- a forerunner of today's sheitel) and she was convinced to remove
it to be photographed bare headed for the one existing portrait
(professional quality) we have of her.
--
Cyndee Meystel
Chicago, IL


Yiddish translation #general

David Ross <dsross3@...>
 

I am seeking assistance in translating some written (as opposed to
printed) yiddish on a post card written to my mother around 1915. I
can attach a clear image of it in an e-mail response to anyone who
might be able to help.

Thanks for any response.

David Ross
Palo Alto


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish translation #general

David Ross <dsross3@...>
 

I am seeking assistance in translating some written (as opposed to
printed) yiddish on a post card written to my mother around 1915. I
can attach a clear image of it in an e-mail response to anyone who
might be able to help.

Thanks for any response.

David Ross
Palo Alto