Date   

Re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Fraida Cohen [NY] writes about these London families: < Today, I
received the death certificate, Hannah HOLRIE, who died at the age of
63, in 1896. .....

I also received the marriage certificates of two of their daughters:
In 1889, Anna HOLRIE, age 21, spinster, tailoress, married Lewis
ABRAHAMS, age 23, bachelor, master tailor. His father's name was
Joseph ABRAHAMS, also a tailor. .....In the 1890 and 1900 censuses,
Lewis and Anna are listed with the surname of BRAHAM)

John POULTOW or POULTON, a bachelor marine engineer aged 25 and son
of Alfred POULTOW or POULTON, who was a shipwright, married Minnie
HOLRIE, a 25 year old spinster. This couple was married in the
Register Office ......

Another curiosity, since I am unfamiliar with British naming customs.
Is POULTOW or POULTON a Jewish surname in Britain? I can ask the
same about my relative's name, because I have absolutely no idea
where the name HOLRIE came >from as well. I recently found out that
Harris is the common name given to many people who carried the Hebrew
name Mordechai.>

1. The HOLRIE family were all >from Warsaw and can already be seen in
the 1881 census of England. What their original name could have been
I leave to others to guess.

Somehow they never got nationalised by *1901* when one can see the
BRAHAM family plus widowed father all living together in the East
End: Lewis BRAHAM 35; Annie BRAHAM 31; Children Sarah 10; Sidney 9;
Lilly 8; Caroline 6 and Harris HOLRIE 61

Annie and Harris HOLRIE [father and daughter] were still foreign
subjects >from Warsaw and Lewis BRAHAM [was ABRAHAM] was a foreign
subject >from Poland.

2. I am pretty sure the POULTON family were a poor working-class
non-Jewish English family >from Kent [Greenwich and Deptford by the
River Thames - hence the jobs of John and father Alfred related to
ships and the river!]. I believe this to be John POULSON's family in
1881: John 18 and his brothers Joseph 23 and Alfred 14 are living
with married brother William POULTON 32 [transcribed as 22]; and his
wife Caroline 24 and their children: Caroline 5; William 3 and George
2.

This suggests that the parents had died and perhaps that is why John
was living/lodging in the HOLRIE household. I cannot find Minnie and
John POULTON in any census after their marriage in 1890.

POULTON is variously mistranscribed in the census too as PONLTON etc
.. The final *W* as in POULTOW is a common transcription error for
the real letter *N*.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: Congregation Ohel Jacob Anshe Kovno, Chicago, Maxwell Street district. #general

Mimi Katz <genealogist@...>
 

Are the records of old Synagogues like, Congregation Kovno
maintained in any accessable archive? Somewhere in
Chicago, obviously.
There's a book by Irving Cutler, "Synagogues of Chicago". I believe that it
is in 2 volumes. It gives the address, names of officers of the
congregations, and former names of synagogue.

Mimi Katz, Chicago


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Fraida Cohen [NY] writes about these London families: < Today, I
received the death certificate, Hannah HOLRIE, who died at the age of
63, in 1896. .....

I also received the marriage certificates of two of their daughters:
In 1889, Anna HOLRIE, age 21, spinster, tailoress, married Lewis
ABRAHAMS, age 23, bachelor, master tailor. His father's name was
Joseph ABRAHAMS, also a tailor. .....In the 1890 and 1900 censuses,
Lewis and Anna are listed with the surname of BRAHAM)

John POULTOW or POULTON, a bachelor marine engineer aged 25 and son
of Alfred POULTOW or POULTON, who was a shipwright, married Minnie
HOLRIE, a 25 year old spinster. This couple was married in the
Register Office ......

Another curiosity, since I am unfamiliar with British naming customs.
Is POULTOW or POULTON a Jewish surname in Britain? I can ask the
same about my relative's name, because I have absolutely no idea
where the name HOLRIE came >from as well. I recently found out that
Harris is the common name given to many people who carried the Hebrew
name Mordechai.>

1. The HOLRIE family were all >from Warsaw and can already be seen in
the 1881 census of England. What their original name could have been
I leave to others to guess.

Somehow they never got nationalised by *1901* when one can see the
BRAHAM family plus widowed father all living together in the East
End: Lewis BRAHAM 35; Annie BRAHAM 31; Children Sarah 10; Sidney 9;
Lilly 8; Caroline 6 and Harris HOLRIE 61

Annie and Harris HOLRIE [father and daughter] were still foreign
subjects >from Warsaw and Lewis BRAHAM [was ABRAHAM] was a foreign
subject >from Poland.

2. I am pretty sure the POULTON family were a poor working-class
non-Jewish English family >from Kent [Greenwich and Deptford by the
River Thames - hence the jobs of John and father Alfred related to
ships and the river!]. I believe this to be John POULSON's family in
1881: John 18 and his brothers Joseph 23 and Alfred 14 are living
with married brother William POULTON 32 [transcribed as 22]; and his
wife Caroline 24 and their children: Caroline 5; William 3 and George
2.

This suggests that the parents had died and perhaps that is why John
was living/lodging in the HOLRIE household. I cannot find Minnie and
John POULTON in any census after their marriage in 1890.

POULTON is variously mistranscribed in the census too as PONLTON etc
.. The final *W* as in POULTOW is a common transcription error for
the real letter *N*.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Congregation Ohel Jacob Anshe Kovno, Chicago, Maxwell Street district. #general

Mimi Katz <genealogist@...>
 

Are the records of old Synagogues like, Congregation Kovno
maintained in any accessable archive? Somewhere in
Chicago, obviously.
There's a book by Irving Cutler, "Synagogues of Chicago". I believe that it
is in 2 volumes. It gives the address, names of officers of the
congregations, and former names of synagogue.

Mimi Katz, Chicago


Re: London names HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM #unitedkingdom

david nathan <d.nathan1@...>
 

Hi Fraida,

You have the name of that synagogue correct - Sandys Row. It is a very
old-established synagogue which was, a believe, previously a Huguenot chapel
and is now a mosque. Strange how buildings once given a religious use seem
to be able to maintain that use, albeit for a different religion.

That part of London's East End, not far >from the docks (now no longer poor
dock areas but now very upmarket apartments and financial offices) was a
very popular settling place for immigrants, first the Huguenots, then the
Jews and now Asians, mostly >from Bangladesh.

Can't answer re Poultrow or Poulton. Many immigrant Jews changed their names
or adopted new ones when they came here to London, England, as they did on
arrival or soon after in the US.

Kind regards

David Nathan, London, England
d.nathan1@ntlworld.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:London names HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM #general

david nathan <d.nathan1@...>
 

Hi Fraida,

You have the name of that synagogue correct - Sandys Row. It is a very
old-established synagogue which was, a believe, previously a Huguenot chapel
and is now a mosque. Strange how buildings once given a religious use seem
to be able to maintain that use, albeit for a different religion.

That part of London's East End, not far >from the docks (now no longer poor
dock areas but now very upmarket apartments and financial offices) was a
very popular settling place for immigrants, first the Huguenots, then the
Jews and now Asians, mostly >from Bangladesh.

Can't answer re Poultrow or Poulton. Many immigrant Jews changed their names
or adopted new ones when they came here to London, England, as they did on
arrival or soon after in the US.

Kind regards

David Nathan, London, England
d.nathan1@ntlworld.com


Re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, POMERANTZ, BROOKS, STERN #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Bubby" <yeruchem18@bestweb.net> wrote

In 1889, Anna HOLRIE, age 21, spinster, tailoress, married Lewis ABRAHAMS,
age 23, bachelor, master tailor. His father's name was Joseph ABRAHAMS, also
a tailor. The wedding took place in the "Sandys Row Synagogue" (that first
word may be wrong; it's hard to read)

In 1890, John POULTOW or POULTON, a bachelor marine engineer aged 25 and son
of Alfred POULTOW or POULTON, who was a shipwright, married Minnie HOLRIE, a
25 year old spinster. This couple was married in the Register Office.
Sandys Row Synagogue still exists in Sandys Row, London E1 just off
Petticoat Lane (Middlesex Street).

If John Poultow/Poulton and Minnie Holrie were married in a Registry Office
this was presumably because he wasn't Jewish. Poulton doesn't sound a Jewish
name although Poultow could be - but one cannot be categorical about such
matters as it is very difficult to deduce simply >from the possession of an
"English" surname that the person is definitely not Jewish.

I think more to the point is that while tailoring is definitely a Jewish
trade, a shipwright or marine engineer certainly isn't. (I would have
thought that marine engineer was a more recent term).

There was a Jewish population in many ports (eg Chatham, Portsmouth,
Plymouth) but these would have been chandlers or provisions merchants - I
don't think Jews built the ships.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, POMERANTZ, BROOKS, STERN #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Bubby" <yeruchem18@bestweb.net> wrote

In 1889, Anna HOLRIE, age 21, spinster, tailoress, married Lewis ABRAHAMS,
age 23, bachelor, master tailor. His father's name was Joseph ABRAHAMS, also
a tailor. The wedding took place in the "Sandys Row Synagogue" (that first
word may be wrong; it's hard to read)

In 1890, John POULTOW or POULTON, a bachelor marine engineer aged 25 and son
of Alfred POULTOW or POULTON, who was a shipwright, married Minnie HOLRIE, a
25 year old spinster. This couple was married in the Register Office.
Sandys Row Synagogue still exists in Sandys Row, London E1 just off
Petticoat Lane (Middlesex Street).

If John Poultow/Poulton and Minnie Holrie were married in a Registry Office
this was presumably because he wasn't Jewish. Poulton doesn't sound a Jewish
name although Poultow could be - but one cannot be categorical about such
matters as it is very difficult to deduce simply >from the possession of an
"English" surname that the person is definitely not Jewish.

I think more to the point is that while tailoring is definitely a Jewish
trade, a shipwright or marine engineer certainly isn't. (I would have
thought that marine engineer was a more recent term).

There was a Jewish population in many ports (eg Chatham, Portsmouth,
Plymouth) but these would have been chandlers or provisions merchants - I
don't think Jews built the ships.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


tombstones in India #general

Harold Greenberg <harold.greenberg@...>
 

JewishGen has advised me that the previous URL which I gave for this
site is not acceptable to some internet providers. The site can be
reached here-

http://tinyurl.com/ppech

or here

http://in.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ijs_shapurkar/my_photos
--
researching - GREENBERG, SHAPIRO (kohanim), ROSENTHAL - Vaslui, Romania
WIDAWSKY, SZER - Klobuck and Praszka, Czestochowa, Kielce, Poland
HYMAN - Myegina, Piotrkow, Poland
ISRAELOWITZ - Piotrkow, Poland
===
Harold Hershel Zvi Greenberg
Eilat, Israel
harold.greenberg@utoronto.ca

MODERATOR NOTE: If you did not receive Harold Greeneberg's earlier message
about Jewish tombstones in India, or the digest (6 Aug) in which it appeared,
you can retrieve that day's messages. Go to the JewishGen Support Center
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/Support.htm> for instructions.


Re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 4:56 PM -0400 8/7/06, Bubby wrote:
The wedding took place in the "Sandys Row Synagogue" (that first
word may be wrong; it's hard to read)
The Sandys Row Synagogue is quite famous and flourishing in the 19th
century , so my guess is that you have read it correctly.

I recently found out that Harris is the common name given
to many people who carried the Hebrew name Mordechai.
Please tell us how you found that out -- it is news to me! I have
zillions of Mordechais in my family, including one of my sons, but
none of them is a "Harris." They are all Marks -- except for a
cousin named Martin. (Mark is in fact a standard English soundalike
for Mordechai) .

Harris is a much used English sound-alike , but not normally for
Mordechai. It is the standard sound-alike for the Yiddish name
Hirsch/Hersh/ Herschel (which means stag and indicates that the
ancestral Hebrew name was almost certainly Zvi (pronounced Tsvee)
-- which is Hebrew for a stag.

Now if the Mordechais in your family had a double barreled name
Mordechai-Tsvi, or Mordechai-Hersh, I could understand them being
called Harris -- but that would represent the name Zvi or the
Hersh and not the name Mordechai..

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen tombstones in India #general

Harold Greenberg <harold.greenberg@...>
 

JewishGen has advised me that the previous URL which I gave for this
site is not acceptable to some internet providers. The site can be
reached here-

http://tinyurl.com/ppech

or here

http://in.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ijs_shapurkar/my_photos
--
researching - GREENBERG, SHAPIRO (kohanim), ROSENTHAL - Vaslui, Romania
WIDAWSKY, SZER - Klobuck and Praszka, Czestochowa, Kielce, Poland
HYMAN - Myegina, Piotrkow, Poland
ISRAELOWITZ - Piotrkow, Poland
===
Harold Hershel Zvi Greenberg
Eilat, Israel
harold.greenberg@utoronto.ca

MODERATOR NOTE: If you did not receive Harold Greeneberg's earlier message
about Jewish tombstones in India, or the digest (6 Aug) in which it appeared,
you can retrieve that day's messages. Go to the JewishGen Support Center
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/Support.htm> for instructions.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: London names: HOLRIE, ABRAHAM, BRAHAM, POULTON/POULTOW, #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 4:56 PM -0400 8/7/06, Bubby wrote:
The wedding took place in the "Sandys Row Synagogue" (that first
word may be wrong; it's hard to read)
The Sandys Row Synagogue is quite famous and flourishing in the 19th
century , so my guess is that you have read it correctly.

I recently found out that Harris is the common name given
to many people who carried the Hebrew name Mordechai.
Please tell us how you found that out -- it is news to me! I have
zillions of Mordechais in my family, including one of my sons, but
none of them is a "Harris." They are all Marks -- except for a
cousin named Martin. (Mark is in fact a standard English soundalike
for Mordechai) .

Harris is a much used English sound-alike , but not normally for
Mordechai. It is the standard sound-alike for the Yiddish name
Hirsch/Hersh/ Herschel (which means stag and indicates that the
ancestral Hebrew name was almost certainly Zvi (pronounced Tsvee)
-- which is Hebrew for a stag.

Now if the Mordechais in your family had a double barreled name
Mordechai-Tsvi, or Mordechai-Hersh, I could understand them being
called Harris -- but that would represent the name Zvi or the
Hersh and not the name Mordechai..

Judith Romney Wegner


Brooklyn, NY Probate Court look-up needed #general

Monica Talmor
 

I need a one name look-up at the Brooklyn Probate Court, on someone who died
40 years ago. I called the court today and I was told that they don't do
telephone inquiries, and a search via a written request costs $90! I can
return the favor in New Haven or other Connecticut town. Please respond
privately. Thank you.

Monica Talmor
Hamden, CT


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Brooklyn, NY Probate Court look-up needed #general

Monica Talmor
 

I need a one name look-up at the Brooklyn Probate Court, on someone who died
40 years ago. I called the court today and I was told that they don't do
telephone inquiries, and a search via a written request costs $90! I can
return the favor in New Haven or other Connecticut town. Please respond
privately. Thank you.

Monica Talmor
Hamden, CT


Hamburg Emigration - Links to your Roots advice needed #general

Bubby <yeruchem18@...>
 

Has anyone successfully received records >from the website Hamburg
emigration - Links to Your Roots? Did you feel it was worth it?

I ask because I noticed that the date of emigration is absent, which is one
of the most important pieces of information to help one choose which names
might be their relative.

Also,I wanted to order some records, but I noticed that the webpage that
takes the credit card information is not secure.

Any experiences or thoughts to share before I go ahead with this (if I do)?

Fraida Cohen
New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Hamburg Emigration - Links to your Roots advice needed #general

Bubby <yeruchem18@...>
 

Has anyone successfully received records >from the website Hamburg
emigration - Links to Your Roots? Did you feel it was worth it?

I ask because I noticed that the date of emigration is absent, which is one
of the most important pieces of information to help one choose which names
might be their relative.

Also,I wanted to order some records, but I noticed that the webpage that
takes the credit card information is not secure.

Any experiences or thoughts to share before I go ahead with this (if I do)?

Fraida Cohen
New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


INTRO - Max ROTHFELS of Bebra, Hessen Germany #germany

Volker Biehl <rehaugen@...>
 

Hello,
I am researching the ROTHFELS family of Bebra and Ronshausen, Hessen Germany.

Meier ROTHFELS had 9 children, born betwen 1885 and 1903. Two sons were
killed in WWI, 6 children were killed in the holocaust. It is Max
ROTHFELS, born 1903, I have no info about, except that he was perhaps
married with Gerda NEUHAUS, no further info. Best regards

Volker Biehl City ????? Germany <rehaugen@gmx.de>

All messages should be signed with the full name plus city and state or nation
of the sender's residence.


German SIG #Germany INTRO - Max ROTHFELS of Bebra, Hessen Germany #germany

Volker Biehl <rehaugen@...>
 

Hello,
I am researching the ROTHFELS family of Bebra and Ronshausen, Hessen Germany.

Meier ROTHFELS had 9 children, born betwen 1885 and 1903. Two sons were
killed in WWI, 6 children were killed in the holocaust. It is Max
ROTHFELS, born 1903, I have no info about, except that he was perhaps
married with Gerda NEUHAUS, no further info. Best regards

Volker Biehl City ????? Germany <rehaugen@gmx.de>

All messages should be signed with the full name plus city and state or nation
of the sender's residence.


New Brunswick, NJ Cemetery Found #general

Rochelle Gershenow
 

Thanks to all who suggested how to find the cemeteryin New Brunswick, NJ. I
had tried all the traditional ways of looking it up including the IAJGS
cemetery project site but to no avail. That is why I sent out my email to
the list. The cemetery was found through the extraordinary help of someone
who worked at a nearby cemetery, and we were able to visit it this weekend.
For anyone who might be interested the cemetery is Poile Zedak--it has a
Workman's Circle section, a Sephardic section, and a Poile Zedak (historic
synagogue in New Brunswick, NJ) section.

Rochelle Gershenow
Potomac, MD

MODERATOR NOTE: Now that you have found the cemetery, please report it for
inclusion in the IAJGS cemetery database. Of course, if you can muster the
effort, JewishGen would welcome information on the burials there for the JOWBR.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen New Brunswick, NJ Cemetery Found #general

Rochelle Gershenow
 

Thanks to all who suggested how to find the cemeteryin New Brunswick, NJ. I
had tried all the traditional ways of looking it up including the IAJGS
cemetery project site but to no avail. That is why I sent out my email to
the list. The cemetery was found through the extraordinary help of someone
who worked at a nearby cemetery, and we were able to visit it this weekend.
For anyone who might be interested the cemetery is Poile Zedak--it has a
Workman's Circle section, a Sephardic section, and a Poile Zedak (historic
synagogue in New Brunswick, NJ) section.

Rochelle Gershenow
Potomac, MD

MODERATOR NOTE: Now that you have found the cemetery, please report it for
inclusion in the IAJGS cemetery database. Of course, if you can muster the
effort, JewishGen would welcome information on the burials there for the JOWBR.