Date   

Re: seemingly Christian given names #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:31:36 UTC, jutel@clear.net.nz opined:
There are many reasons that a Jewish person might have a
Christian given name or might do a range of seemingly
un-Jewish things, despite being Jewish. In my own family,
the recent immigrant parents of my great grandmother, on one
side, and my grand mother on the other, died young. The
children improvised their up-bringing to a certain extent in
both of these families, and on one side, legally changed the
spelling of both first and last names. It's quite curious:
why would one want to change >from Dora Drozdowitz to Dorothy
Drosdowitz? It seems such a small change...
But on the other side, they took a firm departure from
Judaism, and whilst no-one married non-Jews, they practised
new religions (Christian Science), and for two generations,
no one on that branch knew anything about being Jewish, or
about Jewish practices, despite being 100% of Jewish
extraction. My own given name (of course I was born in the
50s, not the 1880s) is the most popular Catholic given name
in the world - my mother liked it - and my son's middle name
is Christian (named for a mentor of mine who died the week
of his birth).
"Practicing new religions" is indeed a "firm departure >from Judaism". It
isn't clear >from the paragraph above if you are descended on the maternal
side >from the group that did this, but if so you might be well advise d to
consult with a _competent_ rabbi before concluding that you are "100 %
Jewish".

As to the names, "Annemarie" is a conflation of two Hebrew names (those of
the mother and bubbe of Jesus), so it's difficult to find fault with it
despite its Catholic popularity. I remain amazed at the phenomenon of

tagging (supposedly) Jewish children with a name that means "Bearer of
Christ" or "Chistlike". Someone didn't think things through.

Not that it is unheard of in earlier history to give names of foreign gods.
The "Hebrew" name "Moshe" is Egyptian and is a nickname for a whole group of
theophoric names of the form "<name of a god>mose", where <name of a god>
might be "Ra", "Ptah", or any number of others; it is interpreted as meaning
"Son of <name of a god>". The nickname appears frequently in Egyptian

litarature. "Amos" belongs in this group too, where "Ah" is a moon god. I am not
saying that the earlier Egyptian example is an excuse for Christopher/Christine.

Before anyone responds with the bedtime-story etymology of "Moshe": The
name, were it really a Hebrew original, would have to be "Nimshe" or

"Mashui" in order to mean "He is drawn (>from the water)". "Moshe" would
have to mean "He draws (>from the water"), which can 't be made to fit the
story.

The contemporary example of mine and my son's given names is
probably not pertinent, but the fact is I am 100% Jewish,
but my family lost much of the understanding and cultural
practices in the early 20th century in the New World.
Interestingly, we still married Jews, and knew we were
Jewish, but didn't do things the way it might have been
expectged of us.

Annemarie Jutel
Wellington, New Zealand
--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: seemingly Christian given names #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:31:36 UTC, jutel@clear.net.nz opined:
There are many reasons that a Jewish person might have a
Christian given name or might do a range of seemingly
un-Jewish things, despite being Jewish. In my own family,
the recent immigrant parents of my great grandmother, on one
side, and my grand mother on the other, died young. The
children improvised their up-bringing to a certain extent in
both of these families, and on one side, legally changed the
spelling of both first and last names. It's quite curious:
why would one want to change >from Dora Drozdowitz to Dorothy
Drosdowitz? It seems such a small change...
But on the other side, they took a firm departure from
Judaism, and whilst no-one married non-Jews, they practised
new religions (Christian Science), and for two generations,
no one on that branch knew anything about being Jewish, or
about Jewish practices, despite being 100% of Jewish
extraction. My own given name (of course I was born in the
50s, not the 1880s) is the most popular Catholic given name
in the world - my mother liked it - and my son's middle name
is Christian (named for a mentor of mine who died the week
of his birth).
"Practicing new religions" is indeed a "firm departure >from Judaism". It
isn't clear >from the paragraph above if you are descended on the maternal
side >from the group that did this, but if so you might be well advise d to
consult with a _competent_ rabbi before concluding that you are "100 %
Jewish".

As to the names, "Annemarie" is a conflation of two Hebrew names (those of
the mother and bubbe of Jesus), so it's difficult to find fault with it
despite its Catholic popularity. I remain amazed at the phenomenon of

tagging (supposedly) Jewish children with a name that means "Bearer of
Christ" or "Chistlike". Someone didn't think things through.

Not that it is unheard of in earlier history to give names of foreign gods.
The "Hebrew" name "Moshe" is Egyptian and is a nickname for a whole group of
theophoric names of the form "<name of a god>mose", where <name of a god>
might be "Ra", "Ptah", or any number of others; it is interpreted as meaning
"Son of <name of a god>". The nickname appears frequently in Egyptian

litarature. "Amos" belongs in this group too, where "Ah" is a moon god. I am not
saying that the earlier Egyptian example is an excuse for Christopher/Christine.

Before anyone responds with the bedtime-story etymology of "Moshe": The
name, were it really a Hebrew original, would have to be "Nimshe" or

"Mashui" in order to mean "He is drawn (>from the water)". "Moshe" would
have to mean "He draws (>from the water"), which can 't be made to fit the
story.

The contemporary example of mine and my son's given names is
probably not pertinent, but the fact is I am 100% Jewish,
but my family lost much of the understanding and cultural
practices in the early 20th century in the New World.
Interestingly, we still married Jews, and knew we were
Jewish, but didn't do things the way it might have been
expectged of us.

Annemarie Jutel
Wellington, New Zealand
--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: Professional lists #unitedkingdom

Peter Glass <monad1@...>
 

Last month David Kravitz and Susan Goldsmith discussed lists for legal and
medical professionals.

For the legal profession, a directory called 'The Law List' has been
published continuously since as early as 1775 although that was not its
exact name in the early years. The City of London Guildhall Library
catalogue states holdings >from 1841 onwards although they must have a
scatter of earlier ones since I've consulted them. The location of other
near full sets would be interesting to know about.

Each list is organised hierarchically beginning with the Law Lords going
through the Q.C.s and barristers then ending with the ordinary
attorneys/solicitors. In the early 19thC there is no more than name and
address recorded although a second address can be included, thus I
discovered my 3xg-grandfather kept a 'country cottage' at the top of
Hornsey Road in Islington for some decades >from the 1820s.

I missed a talk in the winter by a Fellow >from Wellcome Trust's History of
Medicine Library which was a pity but they will have one of the best
collections of available directories of physicians equivalent to the legal
profession.
http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/
They seem to have directories of American doctors listed in the online
catalogue so perhaps the converse is true in the counterpart libraries in
the USA.

In our message archive Hazel Dakers some years ago also mentioned the Royal
College of Surgeons as a separate entity and worth following up.

Peter Glass, London

=

At 11:34 22/06/06 +0300, you wrote:
>
Susan Goldsmith asked "Is there a UK national list for professions (if one
does not know the city where the person is located)? "

All UK public libraries with a reference section have lists for all
professions. If you are not a resident in the UK, you could ask someone to
do a look-up and many librarians are helpful enough to do so as well.

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel
-----------------------------------------------------


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Professional lists #unitedkingdom

Peter Glass <monad1@...>
 

Last month David Kravitz and Susan Goldsmith discussed lists for legal and
medical professionals.

For the legal profession, a directory called 'The Law List' has been
published continuously since as early as 1775 although that was not its
exact name in the early years. The City of London Guildhall Library
catalogue states holdings >from 1841 onwards although they must have a
scatter of earlier ones since I've consulted them. The location of other
near full sets would be interesting to know about.

Each list is organised hierarchically beginning with the Law Lords going
through the Q.C.s and barristers then ending with the ordinary
attorneys/solicitors. In the early 19thC there is no more than name and
address recorded although a second address can be included, thus I
discovered my 3xg-grandfather kept a 'country cottage' at the top of
Hornsey Road in Islington for some decades >from the 1820s.

I missed a talk in the winter by a Fellow >from Wellcome Trust's History of
Medicine Library which was a pity but they will have one of the best
collections of available directories of physicians equivalent to the legal
profession.
http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/
They seem to have directories of American doctors listed in the online
catalogue so perhaps the converse is true in the counterpart libraries in
the USA.

In our message archive Hazel Dakers some years ago also mentioned the Royal
College of Surgeons as a separate entity and worth following up.

Peter Glass, London

=

At 11:34 22/06/06 +0300, you wrote:
>
Susan Goldsmith asked "Is there a UK national list for professions (if one
does not know the city where the person is located)? "

All UK public libraries with a reference section have lists for all
professions. If you are not a resident in the UK, you could ask someone to
do a look-up and many librarians are helpful enough to do so as well.

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel
-----------------------------------------------------


Re: Rare given name Eliezer LIEBER / LIBER #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Yossi Mund writes: One of my ancestors had the rare name combination
"Eliezer Lieber". This is an ancient, but rare, combination - Lieber
is one of many varieties of nicknames of Eliezer, such as Lipa,
Lipman, Lieberman, etc. meaning "beloved". (These can be found in the
"Seder HaShemot", printed in some editions of the "Shulchan Aruch"
with section "Even HaEzer".) I have never come across anyone else
with this particular variation. I suppose that anyone with the same
name in his area is likely related to him. He lived in the Lviv
(Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg) area of Galicia (now Ukraine). He probably was
named after an ancestor with surname WITLIN or WITTLIN. Any one know
someone else with this given name?>

Sadly I have to tell Yossi that there was a teenage holocaust victim
Eliezer LIEBER >from Rzesow [Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg]. There is a PoT from
Chaim, who I assume was his brother {'brat' and then Hebrew] - the
PoT says *son* and I have sent in a correction to that effect.
Eliezer LIEBER was born in Rzeszow, Poland in 1928 to Isak and
Sheindl [Sabina]. Eliezer perished in 1942 in Belzec, Poland at the
age of 14.

When you check LIEBERMAN{N} - Eliezer appear >from as far afield as
Latvia, Warsaw, Paris, Bukovina, Hungary, Romania, Lodz, Lwow, and
Lublin. We remember all of them here today.

Many Jews >from Lemberg settled in Vienna - I can offer Yossi an
interesting, and probably unconnected, combination >from Vienna:

LIEBREICH Lieber aged 78 died 20.06.1921

There is a holocaust victim called Emil LIEBERMANN [whose Hebrew name
may well have been Emanuel or Eliezier] who was born in Vienna on
09.07.1893.

As for WITTLIN - there are 6 WITTLIN graves in Vienna and these two
are definitely Galician:

Wittlin Baruch aged 31 buried 26.10.1915
Wittlin Feige aged 32 died 09.03.1933

We also have two WITLIN. The moral is: if you come >from Lemberg
remember to explore the Vienna link.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Rare given name Eliezer LIEBER / LIBER #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Yossi Mund writes: One of my ancestors had the rare name combination
"Eliezer Lieber". This is an ancient, but rare, combination - Lieber
is one of many varieties of nicknames of Eliezer, such as Lipa,
Lipman, Lieberman, etc. meaning "beloved". (These can be found in the
"Seder HaShemot", printed in some editions of the "Shulchan Aruch"
with section "Even HaEzer".) I have never come across anyone else
with this particular variation. I suppose that anyone with the same
name in his area is likely related to him. He lived in the Lviv
(Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg) area of Galicia (now Ukraine). He probably was
named after an ancestor with surname WITLIN or WITTLIN. Any one know
someone else with this given name?>

Sadly I have to tell Yossi that there was a teenage holocaust victim
Eliezer LIEBER >from Rzesow [Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg]. There is a PoT from
Chaim, who I assume was his brother {'brat' and then Hebrew] - the
PoT says *son* and I have sent in a correction to that effect.
Eliezer LIEBER was born in Rzeszow, Poland in 1928 to Isak and
Sheindl [Sabina]. Eliezer perished in 1942 in Belzec, Poland at the
age of 14.

When you check LIEBERMAN{N} - Eliezer appear >from as far afield as
Latvia, Warsaw, Paris, Bukovina, Hungary, Romania, Lodz, Lwow, and
Lublin. We remember all of them here today.

Many Jews >from Lemberg settled in Vienna - I can offer Yossi an
interesting, and probably unconnected, combination >from Vienna:

LIEBREICH Lieber aged 78 died 20.06.1921

There is a holocaust victim called Emil LIEBERMANN [whose Hebrew name
may well have been Emanuel or Eliezier] who was born in Vienna on
09.07.1893.

As for WITTLIN - there are 6 WITTLIN graves in Vienna and these two
are definitely Galician:

Wittlin Baruch aged 31 buried 26.10.1915
Wittlin Feige aged 32 died 09.03.1933

We also have two WITLIN. The moral is: if you come >from Lemberg
remember to explore the Vienna link.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: Help with my sources #romania

SFeuerstein <ethnoca@...>
 

Did you consider ILIESCU?

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada


Romania SIG #Romania Re: Help with my sources #romania

SFeuerstein <ethnoca@...>
 

Did you consider ILIESCU?

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada


Re: ELIESCU in Bucuresti #romania

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

Mika Hovav asked about the surname ELIESCU in Bucuresti. Searching
1924/1925 Romanian business directories (one volume for Bucuresti, one for
the rest of what was then Romania) digitized by the Library of Congress at
www.kalter.org/search, you can find several ELIESCUs, including one in
Bucuresti.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu
near Washington, D.C.


Romania SIG #Romania RE: ELIESCU in Bucuresti #romania

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

Mika Hovav asked about the surname ELIESCU in Bucuresti. Searching
1924/1925 Romanian business directories (one volume for Bucuresti, one for
the rest of what was then Romania) digitized by the Library of Congress at
www.kalter.org/search, you can find several ELIESCUs, including one in
Bucuresti.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu
near Washington, D.C.


derivation of the name KULBAK #belarus

Phil Kullback <popnrere@...>
 

I have been researching the name KULBAK and have not
been able to find the derivation of the name. Can you
help?

Philip Kullback
Delray Beach, Florida


Belarus SIG #Belarus derivation of the name KULBAK #belarus

Phil Kullback <popnrere@...>
 

I have been researching the name KULBAK and have not
been able to find the derivation of the name. Can you
help?

Philip Kullback
Delray Beach, Florida


Looking for PURS web site #belarus

Karen Zale
 

One more time I need the help of the group. I have
used the PURS (Pruzhany Uyezed Research Society) web
site with so much information about Shereshov. When I
typed in their address http://www.purs.org I now got
InsuranceQuote.net. Does anyone know their new
address? Thank you for your help.
Karen Zale kbzpzq@yahoo.com
Plano, TX
GREENBERG - Pultusk, Wyszkow
KAPLAN - Chernigov
EHRENFREUND, KELLERMAN - Tarnow
REITMAN, ZALEFSKY - Shereshevo
FINKELSTEIN - Shchedrin
SORKIN - Kapustino, Rogachev


Belarus SIG #Belarus Looking for PURS web site #belarus

Karen Zale
 

One more time I need the help of the group. I have
used the PURS (Pruzhany Uyezed Research Society) web
site with so much information about Shereshov. When I
typed in their address http://www.purs.org I now got
InsuranceQuote.net. Does anyone know their new
address? Thank you for your help.
Karen Zale kbzpzq@yahoo.com
Plano, TX
GREENBERG - Pultusk, Wyszkow
KAPLAN - Chernigov
EHRENFREUND, KELLERMAN - Tarnow
REITMAN, ZALEFSKY - Shereshevo
FINKELSTEIN - Shchedrin
SORKIN - Kapustino, Rogachev


Searching Liskowski / Lister #unitedkingdom

Stuart Liss <stuartliss@...>
 

I found the online marriage record of my cousins Chaim Liskowski and Edith Halprin who were married on July 29, 1948 at the West London Synagogue. I emailed the synagogue and asked them for any information. They weren't members of the synagogue and neither is their daughter, Josephine Lister.

Is there any way to find info on Chaim and Edith? They were born in 1910 and 1911, respectively, so it isn't likely that they are alive.

How about Josephine? I don't know her married name or where she lives.


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Stuart Liss
Evergreen, Colorado

Liskowsky, Baksht, Bakst, Baxt, Marrow, Marovinski, Wolinsky, Wolinetz, Woliyniec, Routtenberg

MODERATOR NOTE: Pleasee reply off list


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Searching Liskowski / Lister #unitedkingdom

Stuart Liss <stuartliss@...>
 

I found the online marriage record of my cousins Chaim Liskowski and Edith Halprin who were married on July 29, 1948 at the West London Synagogue. I emailed the synagogue and asked them for any information. They weren't members of the synagogue and neither is their daughter, Josephine Lister.

Is there any way to find info on Chaim and Edith? They were born in 1910 and 1911, respectively, so it isn't likely that they are alive.

How about Josephine? I don't know her married name or where she lives.


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Stuart Liss
Evergreen, Colorado

Liskowsky, Baksht, Bakst, Baxt, Marrow, Marovinski, Wolinsky, Wolinetz, Woliyniec, Routtenberg

MODERATOR NOTE: Pleasee reply off list


Re: Yanava #belarus

Linda D. Epstein <l.epstein@...>
 

Yanava could also be Yanowo- >from a historical family document I have signed
by my grandfather's brothers and sisters (8 total) it reads:

Our mother, during a four weeks military duty by father's nephew, one
Leible, Boruch's son >from Yanowo, who was religiously inclined, had prepared
and sent meals to him daily by one of her children to the soldiers'
barracks, a distance of about six American miles.
My great grandparents were >from Sokolka, in Grodno, so Yanava could be near
Sokolka.

Linda D. Epstein -l.epstein@verizon.net
TIKOTZINSKI/EPSTEIN: Sokolka, Grodno---> Elmira, NY ***
SPUND/MORRIS/SHAPIRO: Minsk ---> Washington, DC and Chicago, IL ***
WEINSTEIN: Makow, Poland, (Lomza Gubernia) ---> Israel and NYC, US ***
SAFFIAN/SAFIAN: Makow, Poland, (Lomza Gubernia) ---> LA, CA, NYC, US ***
WOLFOWICH: Krinky, Grodno ***GROSSMAN: RUSSIA ---> Utica, NY
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign all messages with your location also.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Yanava #belarus

Linda D. Epstein <l.epstein@...>
 

Yanava could also be Yanowo- >from a historical family document I have signed
by my grandfather's brothers and sisters (8 total) it reads:

Our mother, during a four weeks military duty by father's nephew, one
Leible, Boruch's son >from Yanowo, who was religiously inclined, had prepared
and sent meals to him daily by one of her children to the soldiers'
barracks, a distance of about six American miles.
My great grandparents were >from Sokolka, in Grodno, so Yanava could be near
Sokolka.

Linda D. Epstein -l.epstein@verizon.net
TIKOTZINSKI/EPSTEIN: Sokolka, Grodno---> Elmira, NY ***
SPUND/MORRIS/SHAPIRO: Minsk ---> Washington, DC and Chicago, IL ***
WEINSTEIN: Makow, Poland, (Lomza Gubernia) ---> Israel and NYC, US ***
SAFFIAN/SAFIAN: Makow, Poland, (Lomza Gubernia) ---> LA, CA, NYC, US ***
WOLFOWICH: Krinky, Grodno ***GROSSMAN: RUSSIA ---> Utica, NY
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign all messages with your location also.


Re: Yanava #belarus

Stanley Diamond
 

In a message dated Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:14:15 +0200,
"AS" <avivas1@zahav.net.il> writes:

Subject: Re: Yanava
From: >>X-Message-Number: 1

Yanava might turn out Yonava, Jonava, Lithuanian Latin transcription
matches,- a town in Lithuania with considerable Jewish population bewore
WWII.
Aharon Starovolski
Kiron, Israel
avivas1@smile.net.il


I am looking for the following towns and their current locations:
Yanava, Poland Researching GOLDSTEIN, SHAPIRO
Kim Formica
CT, USA
Here is another possibility....

There are GOLDZTEJN entries in 19th century tax lists and notarial records of Janow Sokolski, Poland. This town is 40 km North of Bialystok and was referred to by its Jewish population as Yanova.
There are also two SHAPIRO burials in the cemetery section for this town in the Baron Hirsch Cemetery, Staten Island.

Stanley Diamond, Montreal


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Yanava #belarus

Stanley Diamond
 

In a message dated Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:14:15 +0200,
"AS" <avivas1@zahav.net.il> writes:

Subject: Re: Yanava
From: >>X-Message-Number: 1

Yanava might turn out Yonava, Jonava, Lithuanian Latin transcription
matches,- a town in Lithuania with considerable Jewish population bewore
WWII.
Aharon Starovolski
Kiron, Israel
avivas1@smile.net.il


I am looking for the following towns and their current locations:
Yanava, Poland Researching GOLDSTEIN, SHAPIRO
Kim Formica
CT, USA
Here is another possibility....

There are GOLDZTEJN entries in 19th century tax lists and notarial records of Janow Sokolski, Poland. This town is 40 km North of Bialystok and was referred to by its Jewish population as Yanova.
There are also two SHAPIRO burials in the cemetery section for this town in the Baron Hirsch Cemetery, Staten Island.

Stanley Diamond, Montreal