Date   

Re: re KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN #latvia

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

Shalom, Anne!

Are you sure about how you are reading the place name?
Could it be Silava, whose old German name was Lettin?

Martha Lev-Zion
http://www.avotaynu.com/books/tamar.htm

On 14 Jul 2006, at 16:31, Photographer Anne BREST & Assoc. wrote:

Hallo LatvianSIG

I have an envellope addressed to my Great Grandmother Annie MARCUS nee
KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN.
The envellope came >from an S.KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN (it is difficult to
see if it is an "O" or an "A) to Anne MARCUS in Dublin , Ireland,
from a place called SILALA , Latvia.


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: re KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN #latvia

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

Shalom, Anne!

Are you sure about how you are reading the place name?
Could it be Silava, whose old German name was Lettin?

Martha Lev-Zion
http://www.avotaynu.com/books/tamar.htm

On 14 Jul 2006, at 16:31, Photographer Anne BREST & Assoc. wrote:

Hallo LatvianSIG

I have an envellope addressed to my Great Grandmother Annie MARCUS nee
KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN.
The envellope came >from an S.KLOPMAN/KLAPMAN (it is difficult to
see if it is an "O" or an "A) to Anne MARCUS in Dublin , Ireland,
from a place called SILALA , Latvia.


German Surname Research #germany

Felicia Alexander <fmode@...>
 

Fellow Gersig Members-
It is with great delight that I report having had several wonderful email
conversations with Lars Menk, author of Dictionary of Jewish German
Surnames. I wrote to him inquiring about additional information on family
members documented in his book. He is a wonderful resource for us all!

Felicia Mode Alexander Langhorne, PA Researching MODE, Posen


German SIG #Germany German Surname Research #germany

Felicia Alexander <fmode@...>
 

Fellow Gersig Members-
It is with great delight that I report having had several wonderful email
conversations with Lars Menk, author of Dictionary of Jewish German
Surnames. I wrote to him inquiring about additional information on family
members documented in his book. He is a wonderful resource for us all!

Felicia Mode Alexander Langhorne, PA Researching MODE, Posen


Mezocsat, Borsod Megye, Hungary #hungary

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Dear H-SIG
There will be a meeting, in Israel, of persons who lived, or whose relatives
lived, in Mezocsat (Mezo"csa't), Hungary. A guest will come >from Mezocsat
and will speak of the history of the Jewish Community in Mezocsat. The
meeting will be held in the evening of July 27, 2006, at the home of a
person who was born in Mezocsat and now lives in Israel.
For details contact: idayosef@013.net.il or
szanto@mail.biu.ac.il

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Arad, Israel


Hungary SIG #Hungary Mezocsat, Borsod Megye, Hungary #hungary

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Dear H-SIG
There will be a meeting, in Israel, of persons who lived, or whose relatives
lived, in Mezocsat (Mezo"csa't), Hungary. A guest will come >from Mezocsat
and will speak of the history of the Jewish Community in Mezocsat. The
meeting will be held in the evening of July 27, 2006, at the home of a
person who was born in Mezocsat and now lives in Israel.
For details contact: idayosef@013.net.il or
szanto@mail.biu.ac.il

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Arad, Israel


Re: MOLDOVAN Family #hungary

Peter <thidas@...>
 

Can one find an individual in a US Census? ?For example can I locate
my uncle Bela Sacher and his personal details in the census of 1918
or 1922 (whenever it was taken)?

Peter I. Hidas

On 11-Jul-06, at 8:23 AM, Diane Jacobs wrote:


Dear Claudia,

With the information you have >from the passenger manifest , you may
want
to try and locate him in the 1910 US Census. Is there a name and
address
to whom he was going on the passenger manifest?

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ


Shalom to all veshavua tov

I found an information about an ship passenger >from hamburg to
america (
Pennsylvania) in mars1909. His name was Elisic(e) MODOVAN. (45
y.o. ). And
His etnicity was Hungary,- Romanian . The record says that his
origyn town
Was Gychanhzas but it seems this place don't exist. Does somebody
have any
Idea about it or any relation with this family? In America or
Hungary or
Romania. I think I just discover why the gran-grandfather of my mum
haven't
The tomb here in Romania ... He emigrate in America ... I think this
Elisic(e) Modovan is our relative..
My main interest was to highlight the lost history of
My mum family throughout the generations . Unfortunately I could
not find
Continuity ....maybe because of the both origin sources? Hungarian and
Romanian? Or because some of them left for America and disapear
there?...
If somebody know about this story and this family please let us
know about
Anything,.. You can write me in private at. ionidia@hotmail.com


Kind Regards,
Claudia Ionita - Bucharest Romania


Re: Weinberger in NY #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i believe "rupture" is a common term for "hernia" (a defect in the abdominal wall, allowing part of the intestines to protrude). since this is usually associated with physical exertion, a person suffering >from it would usually not be allowed to lift heavy objects, etc.

assuming that the form said "exemption" rather than "redemption", it would seem that he was claiming a medical exemption >from military service, based on a physical defect.


....... tom klein, toronto

=?windows-1255?B?7ODkIOLj7Onk?= <msleag@bezeqint.net> wrote:
[snip!]

I have 2 question for the group; are there any lists for people who left =
the
USA back to Europe ? in the WW1 registration , answering to " do you =
claim
redemption" he wrote Ruptur- what did he mean by that?


Fw: Trip Report and Thanks #hungary

Stephen R. Low <steve.low@...>
 

To all:

I'm writing to thank the many subscribers to the Hungarian, Romanian, and
Ukrainian SIGs who offered great suggestions over the past few months that
led to my recent trip to Eastern Europe and more. I have tried to retain the
names and e-mail addresses for many of you and over the next several weeks,
I will try to respond individually. In the meantime, here is a blanket
"thanks," a brief report on what I did, and an offer to help others by
sharing my contacts and experience.

As you will see, this was a very personal journey, filled with symbolism,
and very moving--even with my hard heart.

On June 3, I left >from Boston on a journey that would take me to the
birthplaces of my four grandparents: Kiliya, Ukraine; Iasi, Halmeu, and
Seini, Romania. (Halmeu and Seine were Hungarian when my grandparents left
them.) I also visited Odessa and Ismail in Ukraine, Kishinev; the capital of
Moldova; and Sighet, Satu Mare, and Baia Mare, Romania. In each place, I
spent >from 1 to 4 days. My goal was not to conduct research, but rather to
see these places and to get a feel for what they were like 100-115 years
ago, when these grandparents came to the U.S. In the end, I did conduct a
small amount of research in Halmeu and Seine, and these efforts were
extraordinary.

I traveled between these places by bus, by rented car, and by rabbi (yes, a
rabbi drove me >from Odessa to Ismail!). The car rental permitted me to drive
from Iasi to Satu Mare, crossing the Carpathians, with an overnight stop in
Sighet (the birthplace of Elie Wiesel, whose home has been turned into a
museum).

All along the way, I met wonderful people and had some wonderful guides. I
never was concerned about safety. I found that speaking only English, while
a handicap, did not present great problems. I kept a very detailed diary and
took many photos that are referenced within its pages, and I will spend the
next many weeks integrating the words and photos into a single document.
from Satu Mare, on June 22, I took a bus to Budapest, where my wife joined
me. We spent four days there as tourists, although we did visit the Great
Synagogue and attended Friday night services there. On June 26 we began a
four train/25 hour marathon: >from Budapest to Vienna to Paris (on the Orient
Express) to London (on Eurostar, through the Chunnel) to Southampton,
arriving there just 2 ½ hours before sailing back to the U.S. on the Queen
Mary 2 to New York. Six nights later, on July 3, we got out of bed at 3:45
and were on deck at 4 am in the morning to watch us enter New York harbor,
sail underneath the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and pass the Statue of
Liberty—fulfilling a dream I’ve had for 30 years.
In New York, we dropped our luggage at the hotel, and went immediately to
(where else?) Ellis Island! That evening and the next, we managed to meet
two NY cousins I had never met before, and on our final day, July 5, we
rented a car for the drive back to the Boston area. But first, we drove to
Mt. Hebron, Mt. Zion, and Riverside (in NJ) cemeteries and visited the
graves of my parents, all four grandparents, and four of my eight
great-grandparents.
A spectacular trip. And I would do it again.
As I indicated, I'd be happy to share my specific experiences with anyone
contemplating similar travel. Also, part of my planning involved technology:
cell phone and a word processor, and I'd be happy to report on how I handled
these important parts of the trip.

Regards,
Steve Low
Lincoln MA

Researching:

LOW >from Satu Mare/Seini, Romania (i.e., Szatmar/Szinervaraljá, Hungary) to
New York

SCHWARTZ >from Halmeu, Romania (I.e., Halmi, Hungary) to New York

WITTNER >from Iasi, Romania to New York; Manchester, England; Australia

LANDO/LANDA/LANDAU >from Kiliya, Ukraine and Kishinev, Moldova to New York
and
Palestine


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: MOLDOVAN Family #hungary

Peter <thidas@...>
 

Can one find an individual in a US Census? ?For example can I locate
my uncle Bela Sacher and his personal details in the census of 1918
or 1922 (whenever it was taken)?

Peter I. Hidas

On 11-Jul-06, at 8:23 AM, Diane Jacobs wrote:


Dear Claudia,

With the information you have >from the passenger manifest , you may
want
to try and locate him in the 1910 US Census. Is there a name and
address
to whom he was going on the passenger manifest?

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ


Shalom to all veshavua tov

I found an information about an ship passenger >from hamburg to
america (
Pennsylvania) in mars1909. His name was Elisic(e) MODOVAN. (45
y.o. ). And
His etnicity was Hungary,- Romanian . The record says that his
origyn town
Was Gychanhzas but it seems this place don't exist. Does somebody
have any
Idea about it or any relation with this family? In America or
Hungary or
Romania. I think I just discover why the gran-grandfather of my mum
haven't
The tomb here in Romania ... He emigrate in America ... I think this
Elisic(e) Modovan is our relative..
My main interest was to highlight the lost history of
My mum family throughout the generations . Unfortunately I could
not find
Continuity ....maybe because of the both origin sources? Hungarian and
Romanian? Or because some of them left for America and disapear
there?...
If somebody know about this story and this family please let us
know about
Anything,.. You can write me in private at. ionidia@hotmail.com


Kind Regards,
Claudia Ionita - Bucharest Romania


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Weinberger in NY #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i believe "rupture" is a common term for "hernia" (a defect in the abdominal wall, allowing part of the intestines to protrude). since this is usually associated with physical exertion, a person suffering >from it would usually not be allowed to lift heavy objects, etc.

assuming that the form said "exemption" rather than "redemption", it would seem that he was claiming a medical exemption >from military service, based on a physical defect.


....... tom klein, toronto

=?windows-1255?B?7ODkIOLj7Onk?= <msleag@bezeqint.net> wrote:
[snip!]

I have 2 question for the group; are there any lists for people who left =
the
USA back to Europe ? in the WW1 registration , answering to " do you =
claim
redemption" he wrote Ruptur- what did he mean by that?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Fw: Trip Report and Thanks #hungary

Stephen R. Low <steve.low@...>
 

To all:

I'm writing to thank the many subscribers to the Hungarian, Romanian, and
Ukrainian SIGs who offered great suggestions over the past few months that
led to my recent trip to Eastern Europe and more. I have tried to retain the
names and e-mail addresses for many of you and over the next several weeks,
I will try to respond individually. In the meantime, here is a blanket
"thanks," a brief report on what I did, and an offer to help others by
sharing my contacts and experience.

As you will see, this was a very personal journey, filled with symbolism,
and very moving--even with my hard heart.

On June 3, I left >from Boston on a journey that would take me to the
birthplaces of my four grandparents: Kiliya, Ukraine; Iasi, Halmeu, and
Seini, Romania. (Halmeu and Seine were Hungarian when my grandparents left
them.) I also visited Odessa and Ismail in Ukraine, Kishinev; the capital of
Moldova; and Sighet, Satu Mare, and Baia Mare, Romania. In each place, I
spent >from 1 to 4 days. My goal was not to conduct research, but rather to
see these places and to get a feel for what they were like 100-115 years
ago, when these grandparents came to the U.S. In the end, I did conduct a
small amount of research in Halmeu and Seine, and these efforts were
extraordinary.

I traveled between these places by bus, by rented car, and by rabbi (yes, a
rabbi drove me >from Odessa to Ismail!). The car rental permitted me to drive
from Iasi to Satu Mare, crossing the Carpathians, with an overnight stop in
Sighet (the birthplace of Elie Wiesel, whose home has been turned into a
museum).

All along the way, I met wonderful people and had some wonderful guides. I
never was concerned about safety. I found that speaking only English, while
a handicap, did not present great problems. I kept a very detailed diary and
took many photos that are referenced within its pages, and I will spend the
next many weeks integrating the words and photos into a single document.
from Satu Mare, on June 22, I took a bus to Budapest, where my wife joined
me. We spent four days there as tourists, although we did visit the Great
Synagogue and attended Friday night services there. On June 26 we began a
four train/25 hour marathon: >from Budapest to Vienna to Paris (on the Orient
Express) to London (on Eurostar, through the Chunnel) to Southampton,
arriving there just 2 ½ hours before sailing back to the U.S. on the Queen
Mary 2 to New York. Six nights later, on July 3, we got out of bed at 3:45
and were on deck at 4 am in the morning to watch us enter New York harbor,
sail underneath the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and pass the Statue of
Liberty—fulfilling a dream I’ve had for 30 years.
In New York, we dropped our luggage at the hotel, and went immediately to
(where else?) Ellis Island! That evening and the next, we managed to meet
two NY cousins I had never met before, and on our final day, July 5, we
rented a car for the drive back to the Boston area. But first, we drove to
Mt. Hebron, Mt. Zion, and Riverside (in NJ) cemeteries and visited the
graves of my parents, all four grandparents, and four of my eight
great-grandparents.
A spectacular trip. And I would do it again.
As I indicated, I'd be happy to share my specific experiences with anyone
contemplating similar travel. Also, part of my planning involved technology:
cell phone and a word processor, and I'd be happy to report on how I handled
these important parts of the trip.

Regards,
Steve Low
Lincoln MA

Researching:

LOW >from Satu Mare/Seini, Romania (i.e., Szatmar/Szinervaraljá, Hungary) to
New York

SCHWARTZ >from Halmeu, Romania (I.e., Halmi, Hungary) to New York

WITTNER >from Iasi, Romania to New York; Manchester, England; Australia

LANDO/LANDA/LANDAU >from Kiliya, Ukraine and Kishinev, Moldova to New York
and
Palestine


Re: Town or City in Hungary (Gychanhzas) #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i don't think there is a place with that name (i can't even figure out how to pronounce it!), so the trick is to figure out what place name could have been mangled into "gychanhzas".

it's always best to start with the original document, so if you could please provide a reference to the manifest page, perhaps someone would be able to figure out what it's supposed to say. (the manifest usually also has such useful bits of information as the date of arrival, and sometimes even the port of departure can be a clue, since germans use different spelling rules than italians, for example.) the transcriptions are often not correct.

another tool for locating towns in "greater hungary" is the online gazetteer at bogardi.com, which includes all the areas that now belong to romania, ukraine, slovakia, etc, and it can also do wildcard searches.



....... tom klein, toronto

ps. the only place i found that might have a similar name is "szentegyhazasfalu" in udvarhely, in present-day romania. (you can see why an english-speaking clerk might have had trouble spelling it.)

"rebeka" <ionidia@hotmail.com> wwrote

Does somebody know where is Gychanhzas in Hungary or if there is in
Romania now A ship record testify that my great-grandfather (Moldovan
Elisic(e) ) was resident there before to emigrate in America.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Town or City in Hungary (Gychanhzas) #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i don't think there is a place with that name (i can't even figure out how to pronounce it!), so the trick is to figure out what place name could have been mangled into "gychanhzas".

it's always best to start with the original document, so if you could please provide a reference to the manifest page, perhaps someone would be able to figure out what it's supposed to say. (the manifest usually also has such useful bits of information as the date of arrival, and sometimes even the port of departure can be a clue, since germans use different spelling rules than italians, for example.) the transcriptions are often not correct.

another tool for locating towns in "greater hungary" is the online gazetteer at bogardi.com, which includes all the areas that now belong to romania, ukraine, slovakia, etc, and it can also do wildcard searches.



....... tom klein, toronto

ps. the only place i found that might have a similar name is "szentegyhazasfalu" in udvarhely, in present-day romania. (you can see why an english-speaking clerk might have had trouble spelling it.)

"rebeka" <ionidia@hotmail.com> wwrote

Does somebody know where is Gychanhzas in Hungary or if there is in
Romania now A ship record testify that my great-grandfather (Moldovan
Elisic(e) ) was resident there before to emigrate in America.


MOLDOVAN family #hungary

rebeka
 

Dear Diane

Up to the manifest , Elisie Moldovan with his 5 friends are located to a man
:MOSE (MOSANU) TA(0)NI (?) the brother or brother in law of one of them
named Ferencs(z) Tani(Toni, Tavi, Tare, Dere?). They are all directed to
Berwich in Maine.
I found The 1910 census report and the name become Elissie, the other 5 are
not with him. His address is Ohio, Mahonning, Joungstown. But the first
record says he knows to write and to read, the census says he don't. On the
1920 or 1930 census there is no sign of this person. Maybe change the name..
Maybe come back in Romania or maybe died . ... I try to find death
refferences about this name, but I find nothing. The names of his friends on
the ship :
Bara(Boro) Janos,
Pap Laszlo.
Teri(?) Ferencz(s)
Rusz Janos
Papp Jakob.
I know that my mother family come >from Dej(s) county... That village
Gyxxxxxxxxxx... Have no relation with that area... I 'm conffused...
And about the other record that I found for Flisic( Ilisie) Moldovan , from
szaszdalya - Hungary, who come in nov 1912i found out he goes to Torrington
Connecticut, and he has some cousins there on 25 Harold str. - Babes Simon (
Simonne) and Ellen.
Tanks to all of you for your help.

Claudia ionita
Bucharest - Romania


Hungary SIG #Hungary MOLDOVAN family #hungary

rebeka
 

Dear Diane

Up to the manifest , Elisie Moldovan with his 5 friends are located to a man
:MOSE (MOSANU) TA(0)NI (?) the brother or brother in law of one of them
named Ferencs(z) Tani(Toni, Tavi, Tare, Dere?). They are all directed to
Berwich in Maine.
I found The 1910 census report and the name become Elissie, the other 5 are
not with him. His address is Ohio, Mahonning, Joungstown. But the first
record says he knows to write and to read, the census says he don't. On the
1920 or 1930 census there is no sign of this person. Maybe change the name..
Maybe come back in Romania or maybe died . ... I try to find death
refferences about this name, but I find nothing. The names of his friends on
the ship :
Bara(Boro) Janos,
Pap Laszlo.
Teri(?) Ferencz(s)
Rusz Janos
Papp Jakob.
I know that my mother family come >from Dej(s) county... That village
Gyxxxxxxxxxx... Have no relation with that area... I 'm conffused...
And about the other record that I found for Flisic( Ilisie) Moldovan , from
szaszdalya - Hungary, who come in nov 1912i found out he goes to Torrington
Connecticut, and he has some cousins there on 25 Harold str. - Babes Simon (
Simonne) and Ellen.
Tanks to all of you for your help.

Claudia ionita
Bucharest - Romania


BENVENISTE-HOROWITZ-EPSTEIN Y-DNA Study #rabbinic

Itzhak Epstein
 

I have just established the Benveniste & Sons Family Tree DNA
JewishGen surname project. Painless mouth swab genetic testing
procedures are being used as a promising tool for breaking through
our genealogical brick walls. It might help you to greatly expand
your family tree, and may also help our surname project.

Two prominent Ashkenazi families claim descent >from two brothers
who lived in Spain during the 13th Century CE . The EPSTEINs' alleged
patriarch is Rabbi Aharon de na Clara ben Yosef haLevi. The
HOROWITZs' alleged patriarch is Rabbi Pinhas, Rabbi Aharon's older
brother and mentor. These brothers are the direct male descendants
of Rabbi Zerahyah ben Yitzhak haLevi Gerondi (died after 1186). EPSTEIN
family lore asserts that Aharon's surname was BENVENISTE. The lack of
documentary evidence has, until now, raised doubts about the veracity
of these claims. Recent advances in genetic science may help us to
determine the extent to which the claimed connections between these
families are true.

The first known male HOROWITZ is Yishayahu ben Moshe haLevi ish
Horowitz who came to Prague in the late 15th Century >from the village
of Horovice. The first known male EPSTEIN is Yaakov (Koppelman) ben
Natan haLevi von Eppstein who came to Frankfurt am Main in the early
15th Century >from the town of Eppstein. BENVENISTEs were prominent in
Spain and later in the Balkans. I do not know whether there have been
several BENVENISTE families or only one. We know that many Jews
assumed the EPSTEIN and HOROWITZ surnames in the 19th Century.

12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
Several EPSTEINs have already joined in a surname project. We
have identified members of one paternal Levite lineage that has
borne the Epstein surname for several centuries. Most of the project's
current members, however, are patrilineally unrelated to each other.

In addition, the BENVENISTE & sons DNA project was established to
explore the connection among these families and to also enable
BENVENISTEs and historic HOROWITZes to connect to cousins. To
accomplish these goals and to create as broad a search as possible,
we need male BENVENISTEs and historic HOROWITZes and EPSTEINs
to contribute a cheek swab as a DNA sample. If you are female
member of these families or a member through female ancestors, a
sample >from a qualified male relative can represent your family in
the test. If you are not a member of these families, please share
this message with BENVENISTEs, HOROWITZes and EPSTEINs who
may want to participate in this project.

To join the BENVENISTE & Sons surname project, go to
http://tinyurl.com/meyr9 .
To also join the EPSTEIN surname project, go to http://tinyurl.com/nyh6z .
The basic, and most affordable, twelve marker test will indicate to
whom you are probably related. The more advanced tests could help
to identify closer and more certain relationships. If we confirm the
families' common ancestry, we will need several high resolution tests
to identify the Y-DNA chromosomes of the common ancestor. You
can start with the 12 marker test and add to it at a later date, using
the same sample.

More information about DNA testing and JewishGen's involvement
in it can be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/dna/

Itzhak Epstein New York, NY


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic BENVENISTE-HOROWITZ-EPSTEIN Y-DNA Study #rabbinic

Itzhak Epstein
 

I have just established the Benveniste & Sons Family Tree DNA
JewishGen surname project. Painless mouth swab genetic testing
procedures are being used as a promising tool for breaking through
our genealogical brick walls. It might help you to greatly expand
your family tree, and may also help our surname project.

Two prominent Ashkenazi families claim descent >from two brothers
who lived in Spain during the 13th Century CE . The EPSTEINs' alleged
patriarch is Rabbi Aharon de na Clara ben Yosef haLevi. The
HOROWITZs' alleged patriarch is Rabbi Pinhas, Rabbi Aharon's older
brother and mentor. These brothers are the direct male descendants
of Rabbi Zerahyah ben Yitzhak haLevi Gerondi (died after 1186). EPSTEIN
family lore asserts that Aharon's surname was BENVENISTE. The lack of
documentary evidence has, until now, raised doubts about the veracity
of these claims. Recent advances in genetic science may help us to
determine the extent to which the claimed connections between these
families are true.

The first known male HOROWITZ is Yishayahu ben Moshe haLevi ish
Horowitz who came to Prague in the late 15th Century >from the village
of Horovice. The first known male EPSTEIN is Yaakov (Koppelman) ben
Natan haLevi von Eppstein who came to Frankfurt am Main in the early
15th Century >from the town of Eppstein. BENVENISTEs were prominent in
Spain and later in the Balkans. I do not know whether there have been
several BENVENISTE families or only one. We know that many Jews
assumed the EPSTEIN and HOROWITZ surnames in the 19th Century.

12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
Several EPSTEINs have already joined in a surname project. We
have identified members of one paternal Levite lineage that has
borne the Epstein surname for several centuries. Most of the project's
current members, however, are patrilineally unrelated to each other.

In addition, the BENVENISTE & sons DNA project was established to
explore the connection among these families and to also enable
BENVENISTEs and historic HOROWITZes to connect to cousins. To
accomplish these goals and to create as broad a search as possible,
we need male BENVENISTEs and historic HOROWITZes and EPSTEINs
to contribute a cheek swab as a DNA sample. If you are female
member of these families or a member through female ancestors, a
sample >from a qualified male relative can represent your family in
the test. If you are not a member of these families, please share
this message with BENVENISTEs, HOROWITZes and EPSTEINs who
may want to participate in this project.

To join the BENVENISTE & Sons surname project, go to
http://tinyurl.com/meyr9 .
To also join the EPSTEIN surname project, go to http://tinyurl.com/nyh6z .
The basic, and most affordable, twelve marker test will indicate to
whom you are probably related. The more advanced tests could help
to identify closer and more certain relationships. If we confirm the
families' common ancestry, we will need several high resolution tests
to identify the Y-DNA chromosomes of the common ancestor. You
can start with the 12 marker test and add to it at a later date, using
the same sample.

More information about DNA testing and JewishGen's involvement
in it can be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/dna/

Itzhak Epstein New York, NY


questioning the "cohen gene" #dna

Joan Hartman <joanhartman@...>
 

Does anyone have any science-based response to the following paraphrase
from an anthropology blog, which challenges the conventional understanding
of the "cohen gene" (the blog is written anonymously so I cannot evaluate
the author's credentials):

"One of the first applications of Y-chromosome testing was the discovery
that Jewish Cohanim exhibited a particular Y-chromosome haplotype, called
the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). The first letter announcing this discovery
(www.familytreedna.com/nature97385.html) showed a spectacular difference
between Cohanim and non-Cohanim. The Cohanim had trace frequencies of
haplogroup E3b, and a particular DYS19 allele at high frequency. While this
finding proved different histories for priests and non-priests, it did not
prove descent >from a single individual because the YAP- DYS19B combination
is not a monophyletic lineage. (If two men have the same haplotype, it
does not mean that they are descended >from the same ancestor. This is due
to the fact that microsatellites defining haplotypes mutate quite fast, so
two unrelated men may have the same haplotype by chance. The probability of
this increases as the number of microsatellites decreases.) In another
study
(www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v66n2/990488/990488.html),
the authors discovered a more extended version of the same haplotype
(DYS19-14, DYS388-16, DYS390-23, DYS391-10, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) at high
frequencies.

The Cohen modal haplotype belongs to a Y-chromosome haplogroup called J (or
HG-9). A haplogroup is defined by a unique event polymorphism, and men who
belong to the same haplogroup are indeed descended >from a single man. But,
in the case of J, that single man lived more than 10,000 years ago, long
before the time of Aaron. However, J is split into two lineages that are
also more than 10,000 years old: J2 (or Eu9) and J1 (or Eu10). If people
who have the CMH are always in just one of these groups -- either only in
J1 or only in J2 -- then the CMH could reflect descent >from a single
individual. But, if it is found in both, then by definition the CMH could
not reflect descent >from Aaron, because he lived approximately 3500 years
ago, much after the common ancestor of J1 and J2. Both groups can't be
descended >from Aaron. In this study
(bioanthropology.huji.ac.il/pdf/Nebel_2001b.pdf), 22 out of 25 individuals
with the CMH belonged to J1. But the appendix of the same study shows that
haplotype 108 is also part of the CMH, but haplotype 108 belongs to
haplogroup J2. In another study
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11592923&dopt=Abstract)
the authors state that: "By typing a limited number of Italian Cohanim for
the STRs used here, we determined" that the CMH "does indeed belong to
network 1.2." Network 1.2 falls under the J2 haplogroup. In the
supplementary materials of the following comprehensive article on Ashkenazi
Jewish Y-chromosome variation, 28 of the Jewish CMHs belong to J1 and 25
belong to J2.
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14740294&dopt=Abstract)

Note that in Anatolia, in region 6 (south), 12% of the population belongs
to the
J1-CMH. (hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/HG_2004_v114_p127-148.pdf). Among
Armenians in the West region, the CMH frequency is
4.4%. (www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Weale-HG-01-Armenia.pdf).

Thus, several studies have now shown that the CMH occurs among Jews in both
J1 and J2 and does not represent a single lineage. More importantly, the
CMH was first identified because of its high frequency compared to other
haplotypes. The strength of this evidence is diminished by the finding that
CMH chromosomes belong to two unrelated lineages. Furthermore, the dating
of CMH chromosomes to Aaron's time should be reconsidered, and the
molecular variation within J1 and J2-background CMH and its neighbors
should be considered separately. In conclusion, the true genetic identity
of Aaron remains elusive."

Joan Hartman


DNA Research #DNA questioning the "cohen gene" #dna

Joan Hartman <joanhartman@...>
 

Does anyone have any science-based response to the following paraphrase
from an anthropology blog, which challenges the conventional understanding
of the "cohen gene" (the blog is written anonymously so I cannot evaluate
the author's credentials):

"One of the first applications of Y-chromosome testing was the discovery
that Jewish Cohanim exhibited a particular Y-chromosome haplotype, called
the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). The first letter announcing this discovery
(www.familytreedna.com/nature97385.html) showed a spectacular difference
between Cohanim and non-Cohanim. The Cohanim had trace frequencies of
haplogroup E3b, and a particular DYS19 allele at high frequency. While this
finding proved different histories for priests and non-priests, it did not
prove descent >from a single individual because the YAP- DYS19B combination
is not a monophyletic lineage. (If two men have the same haplotype, it
does not mean that they are descended >from the same ancestor. This is due
to the fact that microsatellites defining haplotypes mutate quite fast, so
two unrelated men may have the same haplotype by chance. The probability of
this increases as the number of microsatellites decreases.) In another
study
(www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v66n2/990488/990488.html),
the authors discovered a more extended version of the same haplotype
(DYS19-14, DYS388-16, DYS390-23, DYS391-10, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) at high
frequencies.

The Cohen modal haplotype belongs to a Y-chromosome haplogroup called J (or
HG-9). A haplogroup is defined by a unique event polymorphism, and men who
belong to the same haplogroup are indeed descended >from a single man. But,
in the case of J, that single man lived more than 10,000 years ago, long
before the time of Aaron. However, J is split into two lineages that are
also more than 10,000 years old: J2 (or Eu9) and J1 (or Eu10). If people
who have the CMH are always in just one of these groups -- either only in
J1 or only in J2 -- then the CMH could reflect descent >from a single
individual. But, if it is found in both, then by definition the CMH could
not reflect descent >from Aaron, because he lived approximately 3500 years
ago, much after the common ancestor of J1 and J2. Both groups can't be
descended >from Aaron. In this study
(bioanthropology.huji.ac.il/pdf/Nebel_2001b.pdf), 22 out of 25 individuals
with the CMH belonged to J1. But the appendix of the same study shows that
haplotype 108 is also part of the CMH, but haplotype 108 belongs to
haplogroup J2. In another study
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11592923&dopt=Abstract)
the authors state that: "By typing a limited number of Italian Cohanim for
the STRs used here, we determined" that the CMH "does indeed belong to
network 1.2." Network 1.2 falls under the J2 haplogroup. In the
supplementary materials of the following comprehensive article on Ashkenazi
Jewish Y-chromosome variation, 28 of the Jewish CMHs belong to J1 and 25
belong to J2.
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14740294&dopt=Abstract)

Note that in Anatolia, in region 6 (south), 12% of the population belongs
to the
J1-CMH. (hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/HG_2004_v114_p127-148.pdf). Among
Armenians in the West region, the CMH frequency is
4.4%. (www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Weale-HG-01-Armenia.pdf).

Thus, several studies have now shown that the CMH occurs among Jews in both
J1 and J2 and does not represent a single lineage. More importantly, the
CMH was first identified because of its high frequency compared to other
haplotypes. The strength of this evidence is diminished by the finding that
CMH chromosomes belong to two unrelated lineages. Furthermore, the dating
of CMH chromosomes to Aaron's time should be reconsidered, and the
molecular variation within J1 and J2-background CMH and its neighbors
should be considered separately. In conclusion, the true genetic identity
of Aaron remains elusive."

Joan Hartman