Date   

Hasidim among your ancestors? #poland

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

If you've found Hasidim among your ancestors, how much do you know about
their practices?

Why did Polish Jews turn to Hasidim, and how did these ideas sweep like
wildfire through Jewish society?

Glenn Dynner's book , "Men of Silk " is an in-depth exploration of this
revolutionary impact on Polish Jewry in the 19th century. He draws on
newly-discovered Polish archival sources and Hasidic texts to describe
the leaders as successful populists who deftly combined mysticism with a
pragmatic approach to politics and business. Dynner's work also looks at
the full range of Hasidic followers, >from the downtrodden of
the shtetls to the well-to-do of Warsaw.

This 396 page book can provide a helpful context for your family's own
story. If you're exploring the genealogy of 19th-century Poland, you'll
find it useful, and it will be especially interesting if your family has
Hasidic predecessors. Meticulously researched, it includes sources and
notes for anyone who wants to investigate further and most importantly,
broaden their knowledge about Hasidim and their influence.

"Men of Silk" (product code OUP201) is available now at $65 plus S&H
from the JewishGenMall. http://www.jewishgenmall.org

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Hasidim among your ancestors? #poland

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

If you've found Hasidim among your ancestors, how much do you know about
their practices?

Why did Polish Jews turn to Hasidim, and how did these ideas sweep like
wildfire through Jewish society?

Glenn Dynner's book , "Men of Silk " is an in-depth exploration of this
revolutionary impact on Polish Jewry in the 19th century. He draws on
newly-discovered Polish archival sources and Hasidic texts to describe
the leaders as successful populists who deftly combined mysticism with a
pragmatic approach to politics and business. Dynner's work also looks at
the full range of Hasidic followers, >from the downtrodden of
the shtetls to the well-to-do of Warsaw.

This 396 page book can provide a helpful context for your family's own
story. If you're exploring the genealogy of 19th-century Poland, you'll
find it useful, and it will be especially interesting if your family has
Hasidic predecessors. Meticulously researched, it includes sources and
notes for anyone who wants to investigate further and most importantly,
broaden their knowledge about Hasidim and their influence.

"Men of Silk" (product code OUP201) is available now at $65 plus S&H
from the JewishGenMall. http://www.jewishgenmall.org

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects


Re: FW: Dutch customs, language and Grimslech #unitedkingdom

anita <anita.benson@...>
 

The different customs of waiting between eating meaty foods and milky is an
interesting one. I remember going to a series of lectures on Kashrut issues
and this very same question came up, the Rabbi suggested that English,
perhaps German & Dutch Jews might have traditionally had a milk based drink
at 11 the term elevenses and the English Jews would have certainly adopted
the English custom of afternoon tea at 4 taken with milk. I remember
attending weddings kosher ( United Synagogue) where tea & dairy were served
at the Buffet later on in the evening. Of course now the community has
turned to the stricter more eastern European custom of waiting six hours
between meat and milk we have a milk substitute served 3 hours later after
the dinner.



Shabbat Shalom

Anita Benson
Hendon London


Can any one elaborate on
the Dutch minhag of only keeping one hour between meat and milk? I know the
halachic source. However, it seemed in England a large number of the
Anglo-Jewry communities kept three hours and I wonder where this minhag
originated.
Six hours is the normally accepted time between meat and milk.
Did this serve to differentiate between the Sefardim and the Askenazim who
came into England >from Holland?

Noach miTelshestone
Kiryat Telshestone
D N Harei Yehudah
Israel


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: FW: Dutch customs, language and Grimslech #unitedkingdom

anita <anita.benson@...>
 

The different customs of waiting between eating meaty foods and milky is an
interesting one. I remember going to a series of lectures on Kashrut issues
and this very same question came up, the Rabbi suggested that English,
perhaps German & Dutch Jews might have traditionally had a milk based drink
at 11 the term elevenses and the English Jews would have certainly adopted
the English custom of afternoon tea at 4 taken with milk. I remember
attending weddings kosher ( United Synagogue) where tea & dairy were served
at the Buffet later on in the evening. Of course now the community has
turned to the stricter more eastern European custom of waiting six hours
between meat and milk we have a milk substitute served 3 hours later after
the dinner.



Shabbat Shalom

Anita Benson
Hendon London


Can any one elaborate on
the Dutch minhag of only keeping one hour between meat and milk? I know the
halachic source. However, it seemed in England a large number of the
Anglo-Jewry communities kept three hours and I wonder where this minhag
originated.
Six hours is the normally accepted time between meat and milk.
Did this serve to differentiate between the Sefardim and the Askenazim who
came into England >from Holland?

Noach miTelshestone
Kiryat Telshestone
D N Harei Yehudah
Israel


Gesher Galicia at the 2006-IAJGS Conference #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Two highlights for Galitzianers at this year’s IAJGS conference will be
Gesher Galicia’s luncheon and annual SIG meeting, where we share new
information, update research and plan for the future. Because Gesher Galicia
exists primarily in cyber-space--and most of our communication is done via
e-mail or online discussion groups--we relish the opportunity to meet
face-to-face with the people we’ve gotten to know on the internet.

Here are details on these events:

Gesher Galicia’s SIG Meeting - Monday, August 14th - 3:15PM – 4:00PM

PROGRAM & SPEAKERS

Steering committee members will provide updates on “The Galitzianer,” the GG
website, shtellink pages, town/region research groups, our research grant
program, and the “Gesher Galicia Family Finder.” Guest speakers will also
offer short previews of conference programs of interest to Galitzianers:

-Mark Halpern will elaborate on the new JRI-Poland initiatives and indexing
projects.

-Joyce Field will update yizkor book projects for Galician towns

-Logan Kleinwaks will preview his talk on searching Polish (Galician)
pre-WWII business, address, and telephone directories that have been
digitized and made available online and new databases added to his website.

-Steve Lasky will highlight Galician topics on his multimedia website: The
Museum of Family History (http://www.museumoffamilyhistory.com) including
the cemetery project, town and family photographs, documents, vintage
postcards, maps, and his Krakow immigration list.

-Gayle Schlissel Riley will also preview her “Polish Magnate Landowner
Records” talk, explaining why these records can be a valuable tool in your
research.

-A focus on using maps in your research to find elusive shtetls or document
where your ancestors lived. Ukrainian researcher, Alex Dunai, will also
present examples of cadastral maps >from the Lviv archives, and we’ll also
have samples of the detailed map series Specialkarte der k.u.k.
österreichisch-ungarischen Monarchie im Mafsstabe 1:75000 der Nature
(published 1877 - 1914) which is available at the New York Public Library
map room for photocopying.

-GG member, John Diener will present a short Power Point talk on his 2005
trip to Poland and Ukraine, where he visited the new Belzec (Poland)
Memorial—the site of one of the most notorious death camps in Eastern
Poland, where over 500,000 Galitzianers were murdered. He’ll also discuss
the emotional aspect of his journey to his ancestral shtetls in the Tarnopol
(Ternopil), Ukraine district.

Gesher Galicia is also in the process of restructuring, and will be seeking
new steering committee members interested in taking on specific roles in our
organization. Details will be provided at the end of the meeting, along
with an opportunity for questions and answers on all the topics we’ve
covered.

GESHER GALICIA LUNCHEON - Monday, August 14th, 12:30PM - 1:45PM

Author Daniel Mendelsohn will discuss his upcoming book: "The Lost: The
Search for Six of Six Million."

Decades after WWII, spurred by the discovery of a cache of desperate letters
written to his grandfather in 1939, Mendelsohn embarked on a hunt for the
remaining eyewitnesses to his relatives' fates in Bolechow, Ukraine. With
Alex Dunai as his guide, he sought to learn the truth about the lives of
this vanished family -- an investigation into the meaning of memory, family
and history. The focus of his talk will be the "writer's angle" in
genealogical research.

Tickets to this luncheon ($30) must be purchased by the August 1st deadline!
They will not be for sale at the conference or after that date. You can
do this on the conference website/registration section:

http://www.jgsny2006.org/

If you have not already registered for the conference...remember that you
can register for just one day, at the price of $75, if you can't attend the
entire week. Although Galician-related presentations are scattered
throughout the week, Monday, August 14th specifically features this
informative SIG meeting and luncheon. Do you have friends whose ancestors
hail >from Galicia--but who've never been involved with genealogy before? If
you think they might be inspired by these two events.....invite them to
accompany you for the day!

We look forward to meeting you in person this summer.

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Gesher Galicia at the 2006-IAJGS Conference #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Two highlights for Galitzianers at this year’s IAJGS conference will be
Gesher Galicia’s luncheon and annual SIG meeting, where we share new
information, update research and plan for the future. Because Gesher Galicia
exists primarily in cyber-space--and most of our communication is done via
e-mail or online discussion groups--we relish the opportunity to meet
face-to-face with the people we’ve gotten to know on the internet.

Here are details on these events:

Gesher Galicia’s SIG Meeting - Monday, August 14th - 3:15PM – 4:00PM

PROGRAM & SPEAKERS

Steering committee members will provide updates on “The Galitzianer,” the GG
website, shtellink pages, town/region research groups, our research grant
program, and the “Gesher Galicia Family Finder.” Guest speakers will also
offer short previews of conference programs of interest to Galitzianers:

-Mark Halpern will elaborate on the new JRI-Poland initiatives and indexing
projects.

-Joyce Field will update yizkor book projects for Galician towns

-Logan Kleinwaks will preview his talk on searching Polish (Galician)
pre-WWII business, address, and telephone directories that have been
digitized and made available online and new databases added to his website.

-Steve Lasky will highlight Galician topics on his multimedia website: The
Museum of Family History (http://www.museumoffamilyhistory.com) including
the cemetery project, town and family photographs, documents, vintage
postcards, maps, and his Krakow immigration list.

-Gayle Schlissel Riley will also preview her “Polish Magnate Landowner
Records” talk, explaining why these records can be a valuable tool in your
research.

-A focus on using maps in your research to find elusive shtetls or document
where your ancestors lived. Ukrainian researcher, Alex Dunai, will also
present examples of cadastral maps >from the Lviv archives, and we’ll also
have samples of the detailed map series Specialkarte der k.u.k.
österreichisch-ungarischen Monarchie im Mafsstabe 1:75000 der Nature
(published 1877 - 1914) which is available at the New York Public Library
map room for photocopying.

-GG member, John Diener will present a short Power Point talk on his 2005
trip to Poland and Ukraine, where he visited the new Belzec (Poland)
Memorial—the site of one of the most notorious death camps in Eastern
Poland, where over 500,000 Galitzianers were murdered. He’ll also discuss
the emotional aspect of his journey to his ancestral shtetls in the Tarnopol
(Ternopil), Ukraine district.

Gesher Galicia is also in the process of restructuring, and will be seeking
new steering committee members interested in taking on specific roles in our
organization. Details will be provided at the end of the meeting, along
with an opportunity for questions and answers on all the topics we’ve
covered.

GESHER GALICIA LUNCHEON - Monday, August 14th, 12:30PM - 1:45PM

Author Daniel Mendelsohn will discuss his upcoming book: "The Lost: The
Search for Six of Six Million."

Decades after WWII, spurred by the discovery of a cache of desperate letters
written to his grandfather in 1939, Mendelsohn embarked on a hunt for the
remaining eyewitnesses to his relatives' fates in Bolechow, Ukraine. With
Alex Dunai as his guide, he sought to learn the truth about the lives of
this vanished family -- an investigation into the meaning of memory, family
and history. The focus of his talk will be the "writer's angle" in
genealogical research.

Tickets to this luncheon ($30) must be purchased by the August 1st deadline!
They will not be for sale at the conference or after that date. You can
do this on the conference website/registration section:

http://www.jgsny2006.org/

If you have not already registered for the conference...remember that you
can register for just one day, at the price of $75, if you can't attend the
entire week. Although Galician-related presentations are scattered
throughout the week, Monday, August 14th specifically features this
informative SIG meeting and luncheon. Do you have friends whose ancestors
hail >from Galicia--but who've never been involved with genealogy before? If
you think they might be inspired by these two events.....invite them to
accompany you for the day!

We look forward to meeting you in person this summer.

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Hasidim among your ancestors? #galicia

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

If you've found Hasidim among your ancestors, how much do you know about
their practices?

Why did Polish Jews turn to Hasidim, and how did these ideas sweep like
wildfire through Jewish society?

Glenn Dynner's book , "Men of Silk " is an in-depth exploration of this
revolutionary impact on Polish Jewry in the 19th century. He draws on
newly-discovered Polish archival sources and Hasidic texts to describe
the leaders as successful populists who deftly combined mysticism with a
pragmatic approach to politics and business. Dynner's work also looks at
the full range of Hasidic followers, >from the downtrodden of
the shtetls to the well-to-do of Warsaw.

This 396 page book can provide a helpful context for your family's own
story. If you're exploring the genealogy of 19th-century Poland, you'll
find it useful, and it will be especially interesting if your family has
Hasidic predecessors. Meticulously researched, it includes sources and
notes for anyone who wants to investigate further and most importantly,
broaden their knowledge about Hasidim and their influence.

"Men of Silk" (product code OUP201) is available now at $65 plus S&H
from the JewishGenMall. http://www.jewishgenmall.org
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Hasidim among your ancestors? #galicia

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

If you've found Hasidim among your ancestors, how much do you know about
their practices?

Why did Polish Jews turn to Hasidim, and how did these ideas sweep like
wildfire through Jewish society?

Glenn Dynner's book , "Men of Silk " is an in-depth exploration of this
revolutionary impact on Polish Jewry in the 19th century. He draws on
newly-discovered Polish archival sources and Hasidic texts to describe
the leaders as successful populists who deftly combined mysticism with a
pragmatic approach to politics and business. Dynner's work also looks at
the full range of Hasidic followers, >from the downtrodden of
the shtetls to the well-to-do of Warsaw.

This 396 page book can provide a helpful context for your family's own
story. If you're exploring the genealogy of 19th-century Poland, you'll
find it useful, and it will be especially interesting if your family has
Hasidic predecessors. Meticulously researched, it includes sources and
notes for anyone who wants to investigate further and most importantly,
broaden their knowledge about Hasidim and their influence.

"Men of Silk" (product code OUP201) is available now at $65 plus S&H
from the JewishGenMall. http://www.jewishgenmall.org
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects


Re: Money sent back home to Galicia #galicia

Mark Melmed <markmelmed@...>
 

My great-grandmother used to send back money, after the Great War, to
our relatives in Hungary. She simply put cash in the envelope. I
know >from letters sent back to her that on at least one occasion, the
money was stolen.

Around the turn of the last century the husband often came to America first
and sent money to the family in Galicia.

How was this money forwarded?
----
Mark H. Melmed
Holland, PA, 18966
<mark@melmed.com>


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Money sent back home to Galicia #galicia

Mark Melmed <markmelmed@...>
 

My great-grandmother used to send back money, after the Great War, to
our relatives in Hungary. She simply put cash in the envelope. I
know >from letters sent back to her that on at least one occasion, the
money was stolen.

Around the turn of the last century the husband often came to America first
and sent money to the family in Galicia.

How was this money forwarded?
----
Mark H. Melmed
Holland, PA, 18966
<mark@melmed.com>


Re: Sending money home to Galicia #galicia

roe kard
 

Anita Frankel wrote:

Around the turn of the last century the husband often came to America
first and sent money to the family in Galicia.

How was this money forwarded?
Re: Sending money home to Galicia

Dear Anita,

I have a receipt indicating that my father had sent his mother $10 via
Western Union shortly after he arrived here illegally in 1938. And this
was to Belz, a relatively small town, about 40 kilometers Northwest of
Lvov. How it was delivered once it was wired there, i have no idea, but
would be very curious to hear.

Karen Rosenfeld Roekard
Berkeley, Ca.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Sending money home to Galicia #galicia

roe kard
 

Anita Frankel wrote:

Around the turn of the last century the husband often came to America
first and sent money to the family in Galicia.

How was this money forwarded?
Re: Sending money home to Galicia

Dear Anita,

I have a receipt indicating that my father had sent his mother $10 via
Western Union shortly after he arrived here illegally in 1938. And this
was to Belz, a relatively small town, about 40 kilometers Northwest of
Lvov. How it was delivered once it was wired there, i have no idea, but
would be very curious to hear.

Karen Rosenfeld Roekard
Berkeley, Ca.


FW: Dutch customs, language and Grimslech #unitedkingdom

Peloni
 

My maternal Dutch ancestry reached England sometime in the 1700=92s and =
the
grimslech of my youth served by my mother during the whole of Pesach =
have
never been surpassed.
All the customs were Ashkenazi except for the =
singing
of two of the songs at Leil Seder in the language described in Mr =
Bernet's
message as Juedisch-Deutsch (Judaeo-German), termed "Western Yiddish" by
scholars, printed in my grand father's (Deyong) Haggadah published by
D.Cohen 256 Whitechapel Road in 5656 (1896) and one printed in 5643 =
(1883)
by Ann Abrahams & Son in commercial Street. It also appears in one =
printed
by P. Valentine in 6638 (1878) by Rev. A.P. Mendes.

However an edition published in London in 1897 with revision of the =
Hebrew
Text according to a MS written in the year A.M. 5574 by the celebrated
Grammarian Rabbi Shabsi Sofer of Przemslow also a valuable commentary =
copied
from a MS. Of the well known Rabbi Jonathan Eybeshuetz, both of which
manuscripts belong to the Beth Hamedrash of the United =
Synagogue
published by Jacob Dickinson of 5 Sandys Row does not include the
Judaeo-German versions. Presumably the Anglo Jewry of the United =
Synagogue
did not care to recognize them?! If any one would like a copy of =
these two
songs please contact me directly.

If food is an indication of ancestry via recipes, can any one elaborate =
on
the Dutch minhag of only keeping one hour between meat and milk? I =
know the
halachic source. However, it seemed in England a large number of the
Anglo-Jewry communities kept three hours and I wonder where this minhag
originated.
Six hours is the normally accepted time between meat and =
milk.
Did this serve to differentiate between the Sefardim and the =
Askenazim who
came into England >from Holland?

Noach miTelshestone
Kiryat Telshestone
D N Harei Yehudah
Israel


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom FW: Dutch customs, language and Grimslech #unitedkingdom

Peloni
 

My maternal Dutch ancestry reached England sometime in the 1700=92s and =
the
grimslech of my youth served by my mother during the whole of Pesach =
have
never been surpassed.
All the customs were Ashkenazi except for the =
singing
of two of the songs at Leil Seder in the language described in Mr =
Bernet's
message as Juedisch-Deutsch (Judaeo-German), termed "Western Yiddish" by
scholars, printed in my grand father's (Deyong) Haggadah published by
D.Cohen 256 Whitechapel Road in 5656 (1896) and one printed in 5643 =
(1883)
by Ann Abrahams & Son in commercial Street. It also appears in one =
printed
by P. Valentine in 6638 (1878) by Rev. A.P. Mendes.

However an edition published in London in 1897 with revision of the =
Hebrew
Text according to a MS written in the year A.M. 5574 by the celebrated
Grammarian Rabbi Shabsi Sofer of Przemslow also a valuable commentary =
copied
from a MS. Of the well known Rabbi Jonathan Eybeshuetz, both of which
manuscripts belong to the Beth Hamedrash of the United =
Synagogue
published by Jacob Dickinson of 5 Sandys Row does not include the
Judaeo-German versions. Presumably the Anglo Jewry of the United =
Synagogue
did not care to recognize them?! If any one would like a copy of =
these two
songs please contact me directly.

If food is an indication of ancestry via recipes, can any one elaborate =
on
the Dutch minhag of only keeping one hour between meat and milk? I =
know the
halachic source. However, it seemed in England a large number of the
Anglo-Jewry communities kept three hours and I wonder where this minhag
originated.
Six hours is the normally accepted time between meat and =
milk.
Did this serve to differentiate between the Sefardim and the =
Askenazim who
came into England >from Holland?

Noach miTelshestone
Kiryat Telshestone
D N Harei Yehudah
Israel


Edmonton Federation Cemetery #unitedkingdom

Myra & Peter Waddell <mpwaddell@...>
 

Hi Genners,

Help please >from someone with a digital camera who will be going to the
above cemetery sometime soon. There is a grave which I believe may be
that of my great-uncle. The plot number of the grave is I 3 (eye
three). The name is Joseph Osner and he died on the 19th August, 1915,
aged 35.
Hopefully, it will have the names of his parents and/or children on it
(albeit in Hebrew) and will help me fill in a bit more of my maternal
family history.

Thank you so much. Myra Waddell (Adelaide, South Australia)

GOLDENBERG, SAMUELS, Romania/France/England - London/Liverpool.
BORKOVSKY, Lomza Province, Russia and Irkutsk, Siberia.
OUZNER, OSNER, POSNER, Chotin, Romania.
BORZIANSKY, Kaminets-Podolskiy, Ukraine.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Edmonton Federation Cemetery #unitedkingdom

Myra & Peter Waddell <mpwaddell@...>
 

Hi Genners,

Help please >from someone with a digital camera who will be going to the
above cemetery sometime soon. There is a grave which I believe may be
that of my great-uncle. The plot number of the grave is I 3 (eye
three). The name is Joseph Osner and he died on the 19th August, 1915,
aged 35.
Hopefully, it will have the names of his parents and/or children on it
(albeit in Hebrew) and will help me fill in a bit more of my maternal
family history.

Thank you so much. Myra Waddell (Adelaide, South Australia)

GOLDENBERG, SAMUELS, Romania/France/England - London/Liverpool.
BORKOVSKY, Lomza Province, Russia and Irkutsk, Siberia.
OUZNER, OSNER, POSNER, Chotin, Romania.
BORZIANSKY, Kaminets-Podolskiy, Ukraine.


malcolm katz <malkikatz9361@...>
 

The name CHUTS was applied to Jews >from mostly
Amsterdam that settled in the Tenterground Area of
Spitalfields,It is most likely >from the Hebrew meaning
outside or streets,Prounounced at the begining as you
would say the end of Loch in Scotland.
If you left Amsterdam to go abroad it was known as
going Chuts(going outside),Within the Tenterground
area many people were street vendors outside in the
streets.
There was a kids saying in this area,A Chut will beat
a Sephard and 2 Polaks,Something along those
lines,There was no love lost between the
Sephardi,Ashkanasi Dutch and East european later
settlers.The Chuts were very insular and different in
food,speach even there Yiddish was differnt,They were
just as poor but came >from a background mostly of
freedom and toleration dreamed of by the new
easterners.In short they were proud Dutchman and
economic migrants rather the political/religious
migrants,Within time they melted into the mass mix via
marriage as most immigrants do,The tenterground has
gone all that remains are some very Dutch sounding
names.
Kind regards
Malki Katz


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom CHUTS #unitedkingdom

malcolm katz <malkikatz9361@...>
 

The name CHUTS was applied to Jews >from mostly
Amsterdam that settled in the Tenterground Area of
Spitalfields,It is most likely >from the Hebrew meaning
outside or streets,Prounounced at the begining as you
would say the end of Loch in Scotland.
If you left Amsterdam to go abroad it was known as
going Chuts(going outside),Within the Tenterground
area many people were street vendors outside in the
streets.
There was a kids saying in this area,A Chut will beat
a Sephard and 2 Polaks,Something along those
lines,There was no love lost between the
Sephardi,Ashkanasi Dutch and East european later
settlers.The Chuts were very insular and different in
food,speach even there Yiddish was differnt,They were
just as poor but came >from a background mostly of
freedom and toleration dreamed of by the new
easterners.In short they were proud Dutchman and
economic migrants rather the political/religious
migrants,Within time they melted into the mass mix via
marriage as most immigrants do,The tenterground has
gone all that remains are some very Dutch sounding
names.
Kind regards
Malki Katz


Dutch Jews #unitedkingdom

malcolm katz <malkikatz9361@...>
 

I usually agree with Aubrey in every way and learn
more about the Dutch community >from him then anyone
else,And totally agree with the comment about the
war. I do not agree with the myth of the Dutch being
the jews saviours, a few days strike does not save a people and
they may paint a picture of stoic resistence but we
know different,And i cant dispute the figures or
observation that they had the highest non survival
rate in western Europe i believe.
I look at my other half of the family and see Sobibor
and Auschwitz non stop.
But of the London Dutch they were very proud of where
they came >from and yes they may have been socialy
deprived as Jews,But what Jew wasnt at that
period,London was no better unless you had 'gelt'.
The East and Netherlands cannot be compared in hatred
and violence at that time.
Yes the 'Chuts' may have come to live a better life
socialy but i believe for economic reasons on this we
differ,Later on nowhere was safe even Denmark thats a
whole different time.
I dont think a country where the water was cut off to
your area at weekends which was a TB ridden slum,In a
country where you couldnt get into many institutions
because of your religion was much better,Correct me if
im wrong did not Holland allow its Jews to be citizens
before Britain.
On this we differ.
Kind regards
Malki Katz


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Dutch Jews #unitedkingdom

malcolm katz <malkikatz9361@...>
 

I usually agree with Aubrey in every way and learn
more about the Dutch community >from him then anyone
else,And totally agree with the comment about the
war. I do not agree with the myth of the Dutch being
the jews saviours, a few days strike does not save a people and
they may paint a picture of stoic resistence but we
know different,And i cant dispute the figures or
observation that they had the highest non survival
rate in western Europe i believe.
I look at my other half of the family and see Sobibor
and Auschwitz non stop.
But of the London Dutch they were very proud of where
they came >from and yes they may have been socialy
deprived as Jews,But what Jew wasnt at that
period,London was no better unless you had 'gelt'.
The East and Netherlands cannot be compared in hatred
and violence at that time.
Yes the 'Chuts' may have come to live a better life
socialy but i believe for economic reasons on this we
differ,Later on nowhere was safe even Denmark thats a
whole different time.
I dont think a country where the water was cut off to
your area at weekends which was a TB ridden slum,In a
country where you couldnt get into many institutions
because of your religion was much better,Correct me if
im wrong did not Holland allow its Jews to be citizens
before Britain.
On this we differ.
Kind regards
Malki Katz