Date   

Re: numerus clausus exiles #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

dear Michael Miller
Assistant Professor
Central European University
Budapest, Hungary

In response to your question:=20

My father, born June 10, 1902 under the name Laszlo' Eisler attended by=20
reason of the numerus clausus law, his studies at the Technical University=20=
of=20
Dresden Germany, >from 1920 through 1924. Further details I could send you b=
y=20
direct e-mail. I have all his school documentations and curriculum vitae, i=
ncl.=20
the Highschool Graduation certificates in the original Latin and also in=20
translation. Notes etc... He passed away in Mauthausen, on April 26, 1945.=
At=20
that time his last name was already Hungarianized to Elo"d.
My direct e-mail address is leloed @ aol.com
With best wishes and regards to your project,
Leslie

LESLIE ELOED
<street address and phone # deleted>

mllm39@... writes:
Dear List,

I'm currently doing research on Hungarian Jews who were forced to
study outside of Hungary during the 1920s and 1930s due to the numerus
clausus law, which was in effect during these decades. Many of these
Hungarian Jewish students studied in Brno, Czechoslovakia; Paris,
France; various cities in Germany (before 1933) and Austria (before
1938); various cities in Italy, particularly Padua and Milan.

I'm trying to contact any of these individuals who might still be
alive, or who left behind memoirs or correspondence >from this period.

Please contact me if you have any helpful information or contacts.

Thank you in advance.

Michael Miller
Assistant Professor
Central European University
Budapest, Hungary


Re: Schuttelsdorf #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

On the Slovak version of Google aI found a reference to a Schottelsdorf,
however this relates to a surname, rather then a location. See the link below:


Nikolsburg Graveyard Surnames List - [ Translate this page ] ... Schnatel
(1), Schnatter (1), Schneider (18), Schochet (10), Schor (1), Schottelsdorf
(1), Schranitz (1), Schreiber (3), Schuster (34), Schwarz (47), ...
www.jewishgen.org/ShtetLinks/Nikolsburg/nikonam.htm - 12k - Cached - Similar
pages

Leslie Eloed
California, USA

In a message dated 3/22/2006 11:41:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alfred.silberman@... writes:
In Jewish responsa literature there is reference to a city / village
called variously Schuttelsdorf or Schattelsdorf. I am fairly certain
that it is near Bratislava [Pressburg] but I can't find any reference to
this place in any Gazateer or on the internet. I wonder if perhaps it is
now incorporated within the borders of Bratislava.

Does anyone have any idea what the name of this place would be today?

Thank You,
Alfred Silberman
Yonkers, NY


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: numerus clausus exiles #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

dear Michael Miller
Assistant Professor
Central European University
Budapest, Hungary

In response to your question:=20

My father, born June 10, 1902 under the name Laszlo' Eisler attended by=20
reason of the numerus clausus law, his studies at the Technical University=20=
of=20
Dresden Germany, >from 1920 through 1924. Further details I could send you b=
y=20
direct e-mail. I have all his school documentations and curriculum vitae, i=
ncl.=20
the Highschool Graduation certificates in the original Latin and also in=20
translation. Notes etc... He passed away in Mauthausen, on April 26, 1945.=
At=20
that time his last name was already Hungarianized to Elo"d.
My direct e-mail address is leloed @ aol.com
With best wishes and regards to your project,
Leslie

LESLIE ELOED
<street address and phone # deleted>

mllm39@... writes:
Dear List,

I'm currently doing research on Hungarian Jews who were forced to
study outside of Hungary during the 1920s and 1930s due to the numerus
clausus law, which was in effect during these decades. Many of these
Hungarian Jewish students studied in Brno, Czechoslovakia; Paris,
France; various cities in Germany (before 1933) and Austria (before
1938); various cities in Italy, particularly Padua and Milan.

I'm trying to contact any of these individuals who might still be
alive, or who left behind memoirs or correspondence >from this period.

Please contact me if you have any helpful information or contacts.

Thank you in advance.

Michael Miller
Assistant Professor
Central European University
Budapest, Hungary


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Schuttelsdorf #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

On the Slovak version of Google aI found a reference to a Schottelsdorf,
however this relates to a surname, rather then a location. See the link below:


Nikolsburg Graveyard Surnames List - [ Translate this page ] ... Schnatel
(1), Schnatter (1), Schneider (18), Schochet (10), Schor (1), Schottelsdorf
(1), Schranitz (1), Schreiber (3), Schuster (34), Schwarz (47), ...
www.jewishgen.org/ShtetLinks/Nikolsburg/nikonam.htm - 12k - Cached - Similar
pages

Leslie Eloed
California, USA

In a message dated 3/22/2006 11:41:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alfred.silberman@... writes:
In Jewish responsa literature there is reference to a city / village
called variously Schuttelsdorf or Schattelsdorf. I am fairly certain
that it is near Bratislava [Pressburg] but I can't find any reference to
this place in any Gazateer or on the internet. I wonder if perhaps it is
now incorporated within the borders of Bratislava.

Does anyone have any idea what the name of this place would be today?

Thank You,
Alfred Silberman
Yonkers, NY


Searching for GATTMANN #hungary

Judith Berlowitz <judigenie@...>
 

Dear H-Siggers,
After a multi-year hiatus, I've renewed my search for
my ggrandfather, Meyer GATTMAN(N). Most likely born
around 1820 in Schwanfeld, Bavaria, Meyer and his
wife, Regina Gutmann Schmalbach, moved to Budapest,
probably around 1847, were married there around 1850,
and their 4 children, Anna, Julius, Clara, and
Heinrich,were born there. I have no information for
Anna, but the rest of them came to the US in 1881.
Meyer reportedly returned to Budapest, where he died.

This is the information I am seeking:
Who were Meyer's parents? There is a reported
brother, Felix. There are many other Gattmanns in
Schwanfeld, but I find no record of Meyer (Meier,
Mejer, etc.)
How can I find bmd records in B'pest?
Will be grateful for any clues.
Judith Berlowitz
Oakland, California


Hungary SIG #Hungary Searching for GATTMANN #hungary

Judith Berlowitz <judigenie@...>
 

Dear H-Siggers,
After a multi-year hiatus, I've renewed my search for
my ggrandfather, Meyer GATTMAN(N). Most likely born
around 1820 in Schwanfeld, Bavaria, Meyer and his
wife, Regina Gutmann Schmalbach, moved to Budapest,
probably around 1847, were married there around 1850,
and their 4 children, Anna, Julius, Clara, and
Heinrich,were born there. I have no information for
Anna, but the rest of them came to the US in 1881.
Meyer reportedly returned to Budapest, where he died.

This is the information I am seeking:
Who were Meyer's parents? There is a reported
brother, Felix. There are many other Gattmanns in
Schwanfeld, but I find no record of Meyer (Meier,
Mejer, etc.)
How can I find bmd records in B'pest?
Will be grateful for any clues.
Judith Berlowitz
Oakland, California


Budapest Street Names #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

This is a wonderful example of why so many immigrants ended up with changed
names. The best I can make out is that maybe it is Erzsebet utca. There is
of course the famous Erzsebet Korut which is part of one of the Buadpest
"Rings". Certainly there is at least one Erzsebet utca as well, but
regrettably all of my stuff is packed.

The best way for you to confirm the residence of your ancestors would be to
consult the Budapest City Directory. By my recollection a copy of the 1907
book exists in the Ervin Szabo library in Pest. It is easy to find and you
can get entry fairly easily without having to speak Hungarian. You may have
to get a day card, but it will be free. Just ask for the Budapest room and
you will find the City Directories on the back wall.

Peter Bakos
Sarasota, Florida


Hungary SIG #Hungary Budapest Street Names #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

This is a wonderful example of why so many immigrants ended up with changed
names. The best I can make out is that maybe it is Erzsebet utca. There is
of course the famous Erzsebet Korut which is part of one of the Buadpest
"Rings". Certainly there is at least one Erzsebet utca as well, but
regrettably all of my stuff is packed.

The best way for you to confirm the residence of your ancestors would be to
consult the Budapest City Directory. By my recollection a copy of the 1907
book exists in the Ervin Szabo library in Pest. It is easy to find and you
can get entry fairly easily without having to speak Hungarian. You may have
to get a day card, but it will be free. Just ask for the Budapest room and
you will find the City Directories on the back wall.

Peter Bakos
Sarasota, Florida


STEINER/SOMMER/STRAUSZ/BOHM #hungary

edward steiner <nedsteiner@...>
 

Researching STEINER/SOMMER/STRAUSZ/BOHM.

STEINER and STRAUSZ >from Nyitra. SOMMER and BOHM from
Budapest.

Any information regarding these families would be most
welcome.

Ned Steiner
Washington DC


Schuttelsdorf #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Are you certain you are not confusing Huttelsdorf a part of Vienna (not so
far away) >from Bratislava/Poszony.

Peter Bakos


Hungary SIG #Hungary STEINER/SOMMER/STRAUSZ/BOHM #hungary

edward steiner <nedsteiner@...>
 

Researching STEINER/SOMMER/STRAUSZ/BOHM.

STEINER and STRAUSZ >from Nyitra. SOMMER and BOHM from
Budapest.

Any information regarding these families would be most
welcome.

Ned Steiner
Washington DC


Hungary SIG #Hungary Schuttelsdorf #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Are you certain you are not confusing Huttelsdorf a part of Vienna (not so
far away) >from Bratislava/Poszony.

Peter Bakos


Re: Hajduboszormeny and names... #hungary

g_hirsch@...
 

I wanted to find some reliable information about the Hungarian familynames.
As I remembered it was Maria Theresia's decree, but it seems that II. Jozsef
was the originator. In the "Magyar Zsido Lexikon (Hungarian Jewish Lexicon)
facsimile of a 1929 edition" there is more than a page about the subject, so
I took a part of the Hungarian text, which you can see bellow for the ones
who understand Hungarian and I try to give also a rough translation.

"A ne'met csaladne'v a'ltala'nosabb haszna'lata II. Jozsef ismert rendelete
alapja'n 1780. terjedt el a magyar zsidok ko:zo:tt. Sulyos penzbirsa'g vagy
kitoloncoltata's terhe alatt ke'nyszeritette'k akkor a magyar zsidokra is a
ne'met vezete'kneveket. A ne'v-fo:lve'tel ugy to:rte'nt, hogy orsza'gos
o:sszeira's alapja'n erre kiku:ldo:tt bizottsa'gok ele' idezte'k a zsidokat,
ahol a ne'vfelve'telro“l hivatalos igazolva'nyt kaptak, amelyet a rabbi is,
mint a bizottsa'g tagja, ala'irt. A fe'l szabadon va'laszthatta neve't, de
sok esetben egyszeru"en raoktroja'ltak, meg pedig roszakaratuan e's aze'rt,
hogy kigunyolja'k. Az Eselsberg-hez hasonlo nevetse'ges nevek innen
sza'rmaznak."

The more general usage of the German family names based of the wellknown
order >from 1780 f II. Jozsef. They forced with severe punishment or
expellation the German family names. The names were given, by summoning the
Jews before an official commission, who issued an official document about
the assigned name, which was signed by the rabbi too, he was also part of
the board. The client could freely choose the name, but in many occasion it
was simply forced and with ill-will to ridicule him. Names like Eselsberg
(Donkeyhill) and similar ridiculous names originated there.

If you are interested, I can send the complett Hungarianb text in MS_WORD
format.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Von: Milton Hubsher <milton@...>
An: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Betreff: Re: [h-sig] Hajduboszormeny and names...
Datum: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 04:20:28 -0500

The idea that Jews were required to change their last names or adopt
last names intrigued me so I finally searched the Internet for
information that might confirm this.

I found the following:

One site refers to this naming decree/edict directly and states ...

A fifth site refers to this also, though attributes the decree to '...
the emperor...'

A decree was issued by the emperor (July 23
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_23>, 1787
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1787>) to the effect that every Jew
should choose a German surname; and a further edict (1789) ordered,
to the consternation of the Jews, that they should henceforth
Moderator: Please contact Gabor off-list to request text.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hajduboszormeny and names... #hungary

g_hirsch@...
 

I wanted to find some reliable information about the Hungarian familynames.
As I remembered it was Maria Theresia's decree, but it seems that II. Jozsef
was the originator. In the "Magyar Zsido Lexikon (Hungarian Jewish Lexicon)
facsimile of a 1929 edition" there is more than a page about the subject, so
I took a part of the Hungarian text, which you can see bellow for the ones
who understand Hungarian and I try to give also a rough translation.

"A ne'met csaladne'v a'ltala'nosabb haszna'lata II. Jozsef ismert rendelete
alapja'n 1780. terjedt el a magyar zsidok ko:zo:tt. Sulyos penzbirsa'g vagy
kitoloncoltata's terhe alatt ke'nyszeritette'k akkor a magyar zsidokra is a
ne'met vezete'kneveket. A ne'v-fo:lve'tel ugy to:rte'nt, hogy orsza'gos
o:sszeira's alapja'n erre kiku:ldo:tt bizottsa'gok ele' idezte'k a zsidokat,
ahol a ne'vfelve'telro“l hivatalos igazolva'nyt kaptak, amelyet a rabbi is,
mint a bizottsa'g tagja, ala'irt. A fe'l szabadon va'laszthatta neve't, de
sok esetben egyszeru"en raoktroja'ltak, meg pedig roszakaratuan e's aze'rt,
hogy kigunyolja'k. Az Eselsberg-hez hasonlo nevetse'ges nevek innen
sza'rmaznak."

The more general usage of the German family names based of the wellknown
order >from 1780 f II. Jozsef. They forced with severe punishment or
expellation the German family names. The names were given, by summoning the
Jews before an official commission, who issued an official document about
the assigned name, which was signed by the rabbi too, he was also part of
the board. The client could freely choose the name, but in many occasion it
was simply forced and with ill-will to ridicule him. Names like Eselsberg
(Donkeyhill) and similar ridiculous names originated there.

If you are interested, I can send the complett Hungarianb text in MS_WORD
format.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Von: Milton Hubsher <milton@...>
An: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Betreff: Re: [h-sig] Hajduboszormeny and names...
Datum: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 04:20:28 -0500

The idea that Jews were required to change their last names or adopt
last names intrigued me so I finally searched the Internet for
information that might confirm this.

I found the following:

One site refers to this naming decree/edict directly and states ...

A fifth site refers to this also, though attributes the decree to '...
the emperor...'

A decree was issued by the emperor (July 23
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_23>, 1787
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1787>) to the effect that every Jew
should choose a German surname; and a further edict (1789) ordered,
to the consternation of the Jews, that they should henceforth
Moderator: Please contact Gabor off-list to request text.


Podwinetz - Louis-Dreyfus #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hi fellow Siggers.

My researches have taken a bit of an interesting turn. The four daughters
and son of Armin Podwinetz of Modos and Budapest married various interesting
persons. One daughter married Eugene Markush the founder of Pharma. He was
born in Budapest in 1886 and had a sister named Elisabeth, but nothing more
has been found by me, so far.

Sandor Podwinetz who changed his name to Alexander Johnson, married a woman
named Elena Mix in Nogales, Arizona in 1915. He mother had a sister who
married a French Jew named Neubauer and had two daughters one of whom
married Pierre Louis-Dreyfus. I know this is out of our zone (though I have
no idea as to the origins of Neubauer, I just know he was French at the
time). Perhaps Georges Graner may ahve some answers, if so could he please
contact me off list, or anyone else for that matter. And no, I am not
interested in knowing about Julia Louis-Dreyfus, I got that off the net
already.

Thanks

Peter Bakos
Sarasota, Florida, at least for now.

Researching Podvinetz and a growing list of names.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Podwinetz - Louis-Dreyfus #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hi fellow Siggers.

My researches have taken a bit of an interesting turn. The four daughters
and son of Armin Podwinetz of Modos and Budapest married various interesting
persons. One daughter married Eugene Markush the founder of Pharma. He was
born in Budapest in 1886 and had a sister named Elisabeth, but nothing more
has been found by me, so far.

Sandor Podwinetz who changed his name to Alexander Johnson, married a woman
named Elena Mix in Nogales, Arizona in 1915. He mother had a sister who
married a French Jew named Neubauer and had two daughters one of whom
married Pierre Louis-Dreyfus. I know this is out of our zone (though I have
no idea as to the origins of Neubauer, I just know he was French at the
time). Perhaps Georges Graner may ahve some answers, if so could he please
contact me off list, or anyone else for that matter. And no, I am not
interested in knowing about Julia Louis-Dreyfus, I got that off the net
already.

Thanks

Peter Bakos
Sarasota, Florida, at least for now.

Researching Podvinetz and a growing list of names.


Re: Other Hungarian Census Records #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

I wonder what language the annotation is in? Neither of these examples looks or sounds Hungarian. "Mojsza" looks like a Polish spelling (I would expect something more like "Majse", or more formally "Mo'zes") bu it could be an alias or nickname, whereas "Markul" might be Romanian (or a misreading for "Ma'rkus"). "Iszak" should have been spelled "Izsa'k", and obviously is a different name >from "Markul". but secular and jewish names didn't have to match, and so they may be listing the same person's Hebrew name. do these entries follow any sort of pattern, such as the first part being a secular name, with the second part being a hebrew name? ("Mahele" could be "Moishele", for example.)


....... tom klein, toronto

"Eric M. Bloch" <bloch@...> wrote:

While transcribing the 1818 Maramaros megye tax list, we are stumped by
several entries where abbreviations "aj" and "aby" (or maybe its "aluj"
- it's hard to read) appear as in the following examples:

Mojsza Gantz aj Mahele
Markul Vax aby?/aluj? Iszak

For each line, we assume there is a relationship between the first
person and the second person , but we don't know what the relationship
is. Does anyone know what these abbreviations stand for? The tax list
is written in Latin, but the abbreviations may be Hungarian since
diacritical marks are used with them.

Thanks,
Eric M. Bloch
Coordinator - Other Hungarian Census Records


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Other Hungarian Census Records #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

I wonder what language the annotation is in? Neither of these examples looks or sounds Hungarian. "Mojsza" looks like a Polish spelling (I would expect something more like "Majse", or more formally "Mo'zes") bu it could be an alias or nickname, whereas "Markul" might be Romanian (or a misreading for "Ma'rkus"). "Iszak" should have been spelled "Izsa'k", and obviously is a different name >from "Markul". but secular and jewish names didn't have to match, and so they may be listing the same person's Hebrew name. do these entries follow any sort of pattern, such as the first part being a secular name, with the second part being a hebrew name? ("Mahele" could be "Moishele", for example.)


....... tom klein, toronto

"Eric M. Bloch" <bloch@...> wrote:

While transcribing the 1818 Maramaros megye tax list, we are stumped by
several entries where abbreviations "aj" and "aby" (or maybe its "aluj"
- it's hard to read) appear as in the following examples:

Mojsza Gantz aj Mahele
Markul Vax aby?/aluj? Iszak

For each line, we assume there is a relationship between the first
person and the second person , but we don't know what the relationship
is. Does anyone know what these abbreviations stand for? The tax list
is written in Latin, but the abbreviations may be Hungarian since
diacritical marks are used with them.

Thanks,
Eric M. Bloch
Coordinator - Other Hungarian Census Records


Re: Schuttelsdorf #hungary

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

Alfred Silberman asked about a city / village called variously Schuttelsdorf or Schattelsdorf near
Bratislava

Could it be Schattmannsdorf now called Casta in Slovakia.
According to ShtetlSeeker, Casta is 20.7 miles NNE of Bratislava at 48°24' 17°22'

regards

David Laufer
Sydney,Australia


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Schuttelsdorf #hungary

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

Alfred Silberman asked about a city / village called variously Schuttelsdorf or Schattelsdorf near
Bratislava

Could it be Schattmannsdorf now called Casta in Slovakia.
According to ShtetlSeeker, Casta is 20.7 miles NNE of Bratislava at 48°24' 17°22'

regards

David Laufer
Sydney,Australia