Date   

Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

Ilan Szekely <tcdb@...>
 

Daniel Kester Buffalo, NY, USA djkester@adelphia.net wrote:
I was always under the impression that it was a Jewish tradition
not to name someone after a living relative. But I have found
some examples >from the early 1800's (i.e. around the time family
names were taken) in Wiesbaden of fathers and sons having the
same first and last names. Is my data wrong, or did this
commonly happen at that time?
I can give my personal case and my opinion on the reasons.
My father was Laszlo Bela Szekely and my grand father Dezso Szekely.
BOTH had the Hebrew name DAVID.
Why? I assume that because the family was not religious
they did not bother with a Hebrew name at all, until it was needed.
For example at a religiuos ceremony like Bar Mitzva.

Another case may be related to the early death of a father,
keeping his memory by naming his son after him.

Another thought -
Jews were harassed by "authorities" with many "laws".
Sometimes marriages were restricted. Sometimes there was army service duty.
Both are good reasons to fake an identity.
So if father and son have the same name they may succeed in confusing
the authorities... and get or evade what they want.

Also at earlier times names were not regulated as they are today. No family names
were enforced and Jews had all reasons to try and confuse the rulers.
This confuses us today also, so we must be aware of it.

Ilan Szekely, Jerusalem, ISRAEL tcdb@mac.com


Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

MBernet@...
 

Probably a misreading somewhere. Before this time Jews, male and female,
were usually listed with their personal surname followed by their father's first
name. Thus, Rabbi Samson Rafael Hirsch was actually Samson [ben] Rafael.

A married woman used her first name followed by her husband's, e.g. Sarah
Avraham, if married, was the wife of Avraham; if widowed, there was an
indication of that such as Witwe (or Wtw) Avraham.

It was not until well into the 19th century that some Jews felt "emancipated"
enough to echo the custom of upper crust Germans and give the son the same
name as his father.

Michael Bernet, New York

djkester@adelphia.net writes:
<< I was always under the impression that it was a Jewish tradition not
to name someone after a living relative. But I have found some
examples >from the early 1800's (i.e. around the time family names
were taken) in Wiesbaden of fathers and sons having the same first
and last names. Is my data wrong, or did this commonly happen at
that time? >>


German SIG #Germany Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

Ilan Szekely <tcdb@...>
 

Daniel Kester Buffalo, NY, USA djkester@adelphia.net wrote:
I was always under the impression that it was a Jewish tradition
not to name someone after a living relative. But I have found
some examples >from the early 1800's (i.e. around the time family
names were taken) in Wiesbaden of fathers and sons having the
same first and last names. Is my data wrong, or did this
commonly happen at that time?
I can give my personal case and my opinion on the reasons.
My father was Laszlo Bela Szekely and my grand father Dezso Szekely.
BOTH had the Hebrew name DAVID.
Why? I assume that because the family was not religious
they did not bother with a Hebrew name at all, until it was needed.
For example at a religiuos ceremony like Bar Mitzva.

Another case may be related to the early death of a father,
keeping his memory by naming his son after him.

Another thought -
Jews were harassed by "authorities" with many "laws".
Sometimes marriages were restricted. Sometimes there was army service duty.
Both are good reasons to fake an identity.
So if father and son have the same name they may succeed in confusing
the authorities... and get or evade what they want.

Also at earlier times names were not regulated as they are today. No family names
were enforced and Jews had all reasons to try and confuse the rulers.
This confuses us today also, so we must be aware of it.

Ilan Szekely, Jerusalem, ISRAEL tcdb@mac.com


German SIG #Germany Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

MBernet@...
 

Probably a misreading somewhere. Before this time Jews, male and female,
were usually listed with their personal surname followed by their father's first
name. Thus, Rabbi Samson Rafael Hirsch was actually Samson [ben] Rafael.

A married woman used her first name followed by her husband's, e.g. Sarah
Avraham, if married, was the wife of Avraham; if widowed, there was an
indication of that such as Witwe (or Wtw) Avraham.

It was not until well into the 19th century that some Jews felt "emancipated"
enough to echo the custom of upper crust Germans and give the son the same
name as his father.

Michael Bernet, New York

djkester@adelphia.net writes:
<< I was always under the impression that it was a Jewish tradition not
to name someone after a living relative. But I have found some
examples >from the early 1800's (i.e. around the time family names
were taken) in Wiesbaden of fathers and sons having the same first
and last names. Is my data wrong, or did this commonly happen at
that time? >>


Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

Ralph Baer
 

What was not uncommon at the time that family names were adopted was for a head
of a family to adopt as a family name his given name and to then use (at least
officially) his father's name as his new first name.

Let us say as an example that a David Moses adopted DAVID as a family name and
became Moses DAVID. Of course that man might have had a son named Moses, resulting
in both now being Moses David.

Ralph N. Baer ursusminor@alum.rpi.edu or ursusminor@verizon.net Washington, DC


German SIG #Germany Re: Fathers and sons having same first names #germany

Ralph Baer
 

What was not uncommon at the time that family names were adopted was for a head
of a family to adopt as a family name his given name and to then use (at least
officially) his father's name as his new first name.

Let us say as an example that a David Moses adopted DAVID as a family name and
became Moses DAVID. Of course that man might have had a son named Moses, resulting
in both now being Moses David.

Ralph N. Baer ursusminor@alum.rpi.edu or ursusminor@verizon.net Washington, DC


Vital Records for Bialystok #poland

MWGordon2@...
 

<< My family left Bialystok for England and America in the 1880s. Do any
records for Bialystok at this time and earlier still exist? >>

Jewish birth, marriage and death records for the City of Bialystok are
available for many years between 1835 through to the Holocaust. Records
for 1835-1904 have been indexed by JRI-Poland as described by our
Moderator. However, please note that copies of the original records
between 1835-1886 are accessible through microfilm at your local Mormon
Family History Center where you can order these reels >from Salt Lake
City for a nominal fee. Between 1865-1886, the records are in Russian
Cyrillic script in some years accompanied by a Hebrew translation.

An average year, for example, has about 500 Jewish male births and 300
female Jewish births; some of the women unfortunately were not registered.
It is more time efficient to peruse the records while near home than
taking valuable daylight travel time to see them at the Bialystok Archives.

Mark Gordon


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Vital Records for Bialystok #poland

MWGordon2@...
 

<< My family left Bialystok for England and America in the 1880s. Do any
records for Bialystok at this time and earlier still exist? >>

Jewish birth, marriage and death records for the City of Bialystok are
available for many years between 1835 through to the Holocaust. Records
for 1835-1904 have been indexed by JRI-Poland as described by our
Moderator. However, please note that copies of the original records
between 1835-1886 are accessible through microfilm at your local Mormon
Family History Center where you can order these reels >from Salt Lake
City for a nominal fee. Between 1865-1886, the records are in Russian
Cyrillic script in some years accompanied by a Hebrew translation.

An average year, for example, has about 500 Jewish male births and 300
female Jewish births; some of the women unfortunately were not registered.
It is more time efficient to peruse the records while near home than
taking valuable daylight travel time to see them at the Bialystok Archives.

Mark Gordon


Viewmate Item 7864 - Military Uniform 1890 - Max Ucko #poland

Geoff Kaiser <geoff_kaiser@...>
 

Dear Researchers,

I would like some assistance with identification of the military uniform
being worn by my great GF Max Ucko. Photo must have been taken about 1895.
Max was >from Hindenburg (Zabrze). If the link does not work you can copy
and paste into the address field of your browser. Any info or comments
would be appreciated.

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7864

Thanks

Geoff Kaiser
Melbourne

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland Viewmate Item 7864 - Military Uniform 1890 - Max Ucko #poland

Geoff Kaiser <geoff_kaiser@...>
 

Dear Researchers,

I would like some assistance with identification of the military uniform
being worn by my great GF Max Ucko. Photo must have been taken about 1895.
Max was >from Hindenburg (Zabrze). If the link does not work you can copy
and paste into the address field of your browser. Any info or comments
would be appreciated.

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7864

Thanks

Geoff Kaiser
Melbourne

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


WWI Internment and related matters #unitedkingdom

N.Landau@...
 

In the recent "Who Do You Think You Are" the entertainer Julian Clarey
traced German (not Jewish) roots - this was hilarious as at the beginning of
the programme you saw him talking to his mother about what she thought of
his exercise - she said that she didn't mind as long as he didn't find that
they were descended >from foreigners.

He did find German roots and this highlighted the fact that Alexandra
Palace, which dominates the skyline of North London, was used for internment
of foreigners in WWI.

See, for instance, http://www.genfair.com/shop/pages/ang/page02.html

My greatgrandmother who was born in 1857 in Germany and came to England at
the age of 1, was never naturalised. I have heard the story of the police
visiting houses where aliens lived prior to the Second World War. When they
came to my mother's house and saw this frail old woman they just went on
their way deciding not to waste their time.

I think that younger people of long residence might have just had to
register with the Police.

I don't know what she was required to do in WWI but by then she had already
been living in the UK nearly 60 years.

The irony is that her son was a soldier (under-age) in WWI.

I know or presume that all my other grand/greatgrandparents were
naturalised.

I do have relations who were naturalised British citizens who were living in
Germany at the outbreak of WWI who were interned there for the whole of WWI.
One became very Orthodox because he spent his time in the camp studying
religious texts.

On the other hand an uncle of my grandfather, the famous Rabbi Dr Pinchas
Kohn, was an adviser to the German government on Jewish matters in Poland in
WWI. There is a photo of him with a German officer in the Jewish Museum in
Fuerth during this time.

His nephew, my grandfather, was in the South African Army fighting the
Germans in South West Africa at about the same time.

My grandfather's brother-in-law was wounded in the German Army in WWI
although he married my great-aunt just after WWI.

Nick Landau
London, UK


Balaban/pomper #unitedkingdom

Alan Harris <alan201150@...>
 

Can anyone shed any light on what became of my grandparents family that
remained in Poland after they came to England. Rumour has it he had 7
brothers in Poland but we do not have any ideas apart >from my mother saying
she had cousins in California but I have nothing to go on.

Grandfathers name was Eliiasz Moszek Balaban [Eliash Malik Balabai] son of
Jacob Gersh and Ides ? nee Shwarzkop. Grandmothers name Estera Laia Pomper
daughter of Levak deceased and Sura Ruthea born in Raciaz. >from records
found in Plock Gubernia Raciaz PSA they married 18th Feb 1895.

Eliiasz arrived in London about 1902 and worked at the London Hospital in
the mortuary apparently. Estera arrived in 1904 with 2 sons Louis,David and
daughter Ray. Family name became Levy then son Louis changed his to Bourne
for business reasons .Louis married 3 times and had 3 daughters Evelyn,Delia
and Golda. David married and had no children.Ray married Moshe and had 2
daughters Seena & Joyce. Eliiasz & Estera went on to have one son Sid and 3
daughters Betty,Anne & Milly.He opened in the 1930s a butcher shop in Grove
Street E1 London where he was known as Aliyah Moshe.Any help and advice
appreciated.

Alan Harris London.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom WWI Internment and related matters #unitedkingdom

N.Landau@...
 

In the recent "Who Do You Think You Are" the entertainer Julian Clarey
traced German (not Jewish) roots - this was hilarious as at the beginning of
the programme you saw him talking to his mother about what she thought of
his exercise - she said that she didn't mind as long as he didn't find that
they were descended >from foreigners.

He did find German roots and this highlighted the fact that Alexandra
Palace, which dominates the skyline of North London, was used for internment
of foreigners in WWI.

See, for instance, http://www.genfair.com/shop/pages/ang/page02.html

My greatgrandmother who was born in 1857 in Germany and came to England at
the age of 1, was never naturalised. I have heard the story of the police
visiting houses where aliens lived prior to the Second World War. When they
came to my mother's house and saw this frail old woman they just went on
their way deciding not to waste their time.

I think that younger people of long residence might have just had to
register with the Police.

I don't know what she was required to do in WWI but by then she had already
been living in the UK nearly 60 years.

The irony is that her son was a soldier (under-age) in WWI.

I know or presume that all my other grand/greatgrandparents were
naturalised.

I do have relations who were naturalised British citizens who were living in
Germany at the outbreak of WWI who were interned there for the whole of WWI.
One became very Orthodox because he spent his time in the camp studying
religious texts.

On the other hand an uncle of my grandfather, the famous Rabbi Dr Pinchas
Kohn, was an adviser to the German government on Jewish matters in Poland in
WWI. There is a photo of him with a German officer in the Jewish Museum in
Fuerth during this time.

His nephew, my grandfather, was in the South African Army fighting the
Germans in South West Africa at about the same time.

My grandfather's brother-in-law was wounded in the German Army in WWI
although he married my great-aunt just after WWI.

Nick Landau
London, UK


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Balaban/pomper #unitedkingdom

Alan Harris <alan201150@...>
 

Can anyone shed any light on what became of my grandparents family that
remained in Poland after they came to England. Rumour has it he had 7
brothers in Poland but we do not have any ideas apart >from my mother saying
she had cousins in California but I have nothing to go on.

Grandfathers name was Eliiasz Moszek Balaban [Eliash Malik Balabai] son of
Jacob Gersh and Ides ? nee Shwarzkop. Grandmothers name Estera Laia Pomper
daughter of Levak deceased and Sura Ruthea born in Raciaz. >from records
found in Plock Gubernia Raciaz PSA they married 18th Feb 1895.

Eliiasz arrived in London about 1902 and worked at the London Hospital in
the mortuary apparently. Estera arrived in 1904 with 2 sons Louis,David and
daughter Ray. Family name became Levy then son Louis changed his to Bourne
for business reasons .Louis married 3 times and had 3 daughters Evelyn,Delia
and Golda. David married and had no children.Ray married Moshe and had 2
daughters Seena & Joyce. Eliiasz & Estera went on to have one son Sid and 3
daughters Betty,Anne & Milly.He opened in the 1930s a butcher shop in Grove
Street E1 London where he was known as Aliyah Moshe.Any help and advice
appreciated.

Alan Harris London.


Re: UK Immigration and/or Marriage Records - Villiers #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

In a message dated 26/05/2006 13:56:34 GMT Standard Time,
j.goldbloom@ntlworld.com writes:

With regard to English marriage registers, the one that I have
used is www.1837online.com
Be prepared for some small niggles in that it does not take more than
the first 3 letters of a surname as a search criterion. You also have
to pay a small fee per page opened.
The www.freebmd.org.uk project is not much use for any dates after 1915.
-----
Ancestry.co.uk or Ancestry.com both give free access to BMD records of
England & Wales and they go up to 1983..

Harold Pollins


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: UK Immigration and/or Marriage Records - Villiers #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

In a message dated 26/05/2006 13:56:34 GMT Standard Time,
j.goldbloom@ntlworld.com writes:

With regard to English marriage registers, the one that I have
used is www.1837online.com
Be prepared for some small niggles in that it does not take more than
the first 3 letters of a surname as a search criterion. You also have
to pay a small fee per page opened.
The www.freebmd.org.uk project is not much use for any dates after 1915.
-----
Ancestry.co.uk or Ancestry.com both give free access to BMD records of
England & Wales and they go up to 1983..

Harold Pollins


Re: FEINBERG in Warwasing, Ulster Co, NY #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

You could follow up on the man in the census by trying
to find him in the city directories of Warwasing. Contact
the library there to see if they exist.

Also, maybe your Abraham would have been mentioned
in the probate records of some of his relatives. For instance,
if he were entitled by law to inherit a portion of the estate
of a relative who died without a will, there could be some
information that someone tried to find him.

Have you tried to find the military records for your Abraham
Feinberg?

Old newspapers had lists of military events - troops sent
off to different places, troops that returned, and lists of
the dead, injured, and missing in action. I found my grandmother's
brother >from RI, listed in the Boston Globe as having been
injured. That entry gave me the military unit he belonged to.
See if your library has access to the NY Times on-line historical
archives.

Have you looked at the Social Security Death Index - there
are 27 Abraham Feinberg, 10 with a last residence of NY,
with a few of them old enough to have been in WWI
You could try to find obituaries on these men and see if
anything fits. I didn't look for any alternate spellings, so
there may be more possibilities there.

Lisa
Mendon, MA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy Weaver" <joyweave@verizon.net>

I've been trying for years to trace my mother's older brother,
Abraham FEINBERG, who was estranged >from the family in the Bronx,
NY between the time he registered for the WWI draft in 1918 and
the 1920 census. In his draft registration, his occupation is
listed as Driver, Seltzer Wagon.

Now I've come across a man by the same name (though about 10 years
younger) in the 1930 census, living in Warwasing, Ulster Co, NY with
wife Rebecca and two children, the older born in 1922. His occupation
is owner of a trucking company.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: FEINBERG in Warwasing, Ulster Co, NY #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

You could follow up on the man in the census by trying
to find him in the city directories of Warwasing. Contact
the library there to see if they exist.

Also, maybe your Abraham would have been mentioned
in the probate records of some of his relatives. For instance,
if he were entitled by law to inherit a portion of the estate
of a relative who died without a will, there could be some
information that someone tried to find him.

Have you tried to find the military records for your Abraham
Feinberg?

Old newspapers had lists of military events - troops sent
off to different places, troops that returned, and lists of
the dead, injured, and missing in action. I found my grandmother's
brother >from RI, listed in the Boston Globe as having been
injured. That entry gave me the military unit he belonged to.
See if your library has access to the NY Times on-line historical
archives.

Have you looked at the Social Security Death Index - there
are 27 Abraham Feinberg, 10 with a last residence of NY,
with a few of them old enough to have been in WWI
You could try to find obituaries on these men and see if
anything fits. I didn't look for any alternate spellings, so
there may be more possibilities there.

Lisa
Mendon, MA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy Weaver" <joyweave@verizon.net>

I've been trying for years to trace my mother's older brother,
Abraham FEINBERG, who was estranged >from the family in the Bronx,
NY between the time he registered for the WWI draft in 1918 and
the 1920 census. In his draft registration, his occupation is
listed as Driver, Seltzer Wagon.

Now I've come across a man by the same name (though about 10 years
younger) in the 1930 census, living in Warwasing, Ulster Co, NY with
wife Rebecca and two children, the older born in 1922. His occupation
is owner of a trucking company.


KORNWEISS #general

Bubylu@...
 

I am trying to find information on William KORNWEISS who was a
photographer in New York City in 1905. I have his address as
151 Rivington St., New York, NY. I have no other information on him.
It seems that he was my grandfather's witness when my grandfather
filled out his naturalization papers. I would assume that they knew
one another >from Romania and that they were good friends.
Any and all help will be most appreciated. Good luck to all of us on
our searches.

Lois (Segall) Friedman
Delray Beach, FL (formally >from NJ)

Searching: SEGALL, GREIF, GRIEF, SCHIESEL, LECHNER, MEIR, MEYER


does anyone have copies of Eastern District HS yearbooks 1928-1932? #general

Todd Brody
 

My grandmother graduated >from Eastern District H.S. in
Brooklyn sometime during the 1928-1932 period. (Not
1931 because I have seen the list of graduates for
that year and she is not listed). If anyone has a
copy of the yearbook and wouldn't mind looking through
and maybe making a couple of copies for me, I would be
greatly appreciative.

Please contact me privately. Thank you very much.

Todd Brody
Englewood, NJ

Searching: BRAUDE (Telz, Alsiad, Plotel), GLASS (Sandomierz, Montreal),
ROSENBERG (Skaryszew, Montreal), GROSSER (Sieniawa, Przemysl, Jaroslaw),
LAMM (Sieniawa, Przemysl, Jaroslaw), FRANKFORT (Sieniawa), ARFA (Biezun,
Zuromin, Sierpc, Plock), MAJ ((Biezun, Zuromin, Sierpc, Plock).