Date   

Re: Karmelicka - correction #warsaw #poland

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

There was a mistake in my earlier post: it should read "the 8th from
top, 3rd >from left (not: right) block":
Karmelicka Street was a several blocks long street, and during the German
occupation it was entirely within the Ghetto boundaries. The street does
exist but the original houses are gone. Karmelicka 15 was located between
the Nowolipki and Nowolipie Streets. Karmelicka Street can be seen on the
"photoplan" of the city taken in 1935:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index.php?r1=przeglad.htm&r2=przeglad_right.htm&r
3=2. If you click on the right "Kliknij tutaj", and then on the 8th from
top, 3rd >from left block, you will see the segment of Karmelicka Street
between Nowolipki and Nowolipie - by moving the cursor you will make names
of the streets visible. The left side of Karmelicka are odd house numbers.
The house at the corner with Nowolipie is Karmelicka 11. The house at the
corner with Nowolipki is Karmelicka 19, so No. 15 is two houses down from
No. 19. You can see clearly that Karmelicka 15 was a big structure with two
large and one small internal courtyards, and that it was surrounded by
similar apartment houses. The Warsaw Ghetto monument is few blocks up on
the right side of Karmelicka.
Kris Murawski


Re: Karmelicka #warsaw #poland

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

My mother-in-law grew up at Karmelicka 24. She is no longer alive, so I
can't give you first hand information.
I know her father was already listed in the 1923 commercial directory at
this address, and after his death, her brother is listed in the 1935/6,
1936/7, 1938 and 1939 directories together with the phone number.
Some of these directories are on microfilm at the NYC public library. I
remember seeing a picture of the street and they were apartment buildings.
There was also a church on the corner, if I am not mistaken.
The street was part of the Ghetto and if it existed today it would lead
approximately to the Warsaw Ghetto monumnet.
Rose Feldman
Karmelicka Street was a several blocks long street, and during the German
occupation it was entirely within the Ghetto boundaries. The street does
exist but the original houses are gone. Karmelicka 15 was located between
the Nowolipki and Nowolipie Streets. Karmelicka Street can be seen on the
"photoplan" of the city taken in 1935:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index.php?r1=przeglad.htm&r2=przeglad_right.htm&r
3=2. If you click on the right "Kliknij tutaj", and then on the 8th from
top, 3rd >from right block, you will see the segment of Karmelicka Street
between Nowolipki and Nowolipie - by moving the cursor you will make names
of the streets visible. The left side of Karmelicka are odd house numbers.
The house at the corner with Nowolipie is Karmelicka 11. The house at the
corner with Nowolipki is Karmelicka 19, so No. 15 is two houses doen from
No. 19. You can see clearly that Karmelicka 15 was a big structure with two
large and one small internal courtyards, and that it was surrounded by
similar apartment houses. The Warsaw Ghetto monument is few blocks up.
Kris Murawski


Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Re: Karmelicka - correction #poland #warsaw

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

There was a mistake in my earlier post: it should read "the 8th from
top, 3rd >from left (not: right) block":
Karmelicka Street was a several blocks long street, and during the German
occupation it was entirely within the Ghetto boundaries. The street does
exist but the original houses are gone. Karmelicka 15 was located between
the Nowolipki and Nowolipie Streets. Karmelicka Street can be seen on the
"photoplan" of the city taken in 1935:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index.php?r1=przeglad.htm&r2=przeglad_right.htm&r
3=2. If you click on the right "Kliknij tutaj", and then on the 8th from
top, 3rd >from left block, you will see the segment of Karmelicka Street
between Nowolipki and Nowolipie - by moving the cursor you will make names
of the streets visible. The left side of Karmelicka are odd house numbers.
The house at the corner with Nowolipie is Karmelicka 11. The house at the
corner with Nowolipki is Karmelicka 19, so No. 15 is two houses down from
No. 19. You can see clearly that Karmelicka 15 was a big structure with two
large and one small internal courtyards, and that it was surrounded by
similar apartment houses. The Warsaw Ghetto monument is few blocks up on
the right side of Karmelicka.
Kris Murawski


Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Re: Karmelicka #warsaw #poland

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

My mother-in-law grew up at Karmelicka 24. She is no longer alive, so I
can't give you first hand information.
I know her father was already listed in the 1923 commercial directory at
this address, and after his death, her brother is listed in the 1935/6,
1936/7, 1938 and 1939 directories together with the phone number.
Some of these directories are on microfilm at the NYC public library. I
remember seeing a picture of the street and they were apartment buildings.
There was also a church on the corner, if I am not mistaken.
The street was part of the Ghetto and if it existed today it would lead
approximately to the Warsaw Ghetto monumnet.
Rose Feldman
Karmelicka Street was a several blocks long street, and during the German
occupation it was entirely within the Ghetto boundaries. The street does
exist but the original houses are gone. Karmelicka 15 was located between
the Nowolipki and Nowolipie Streets. Karmelicka Street can be seen on the
"photoplan" of the city taken in 1935:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index.php?r1=przeglad.htm&r2=przeglad_right.htm&r
3=2. If you click on the right "Kliknij tutaj", and then on the 8th from
top, 3rd >from right block, you will see the segment of Karmelicka Street
between Nowolipki and Nowolipie - by moving the cursor you will make names
of the streets visible. The left side of Karmelicka are odd house numbers.
The house at the corner with Nowolipie is Karmelicka 11. The house at the
corner with Nowolipki is Karmelicka 19, so No. 15 is two houses doen from
No. 19. You can see clearly that Karmelicka 15 was a big structure with two
large and one small internal courtyards, and that it was surrounded by
similar apartment houses. The Warsaw Ghetto monument is few blocks up.
Kris Murawski


Re: Prenumerantn information for some Galician towns #galicia

Tomer Brunner <tomerbr@...>
 

Logan Kleinwaks wrote:

I have copies of the entries >from Berl Kagan's Sefer HaPrenumerantn for the
Galician towns listed below. I will be glad to share these with anyone
interested in locating the books listed, to view...their prenumerantn
lists. ....Dubiecko
I will try to get to the books in which lists >from Dubiecko appear and of
course I'll copy all lists >from other towns in those books.

Regards,
Tomer Brunner, Israel


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia RE: Prenumerantn information for some Galician towns #galicia

Tomer Brunner <tomerbr@...>
 

Logan Kleinwaks wrote:

I have copies of the entries >from Berl Kagan's Sefer HaPrenumerantn for the
Galician towns listed below. I will be glad to share these with anyone
interested in locating the books listed, to view...their prenumerantn
lists. ....Dubiecko
I will try to get to the books in which lists >from Dubiecko appear and of
course I'll copy all lists >from other towns in those books.

Regards,
Tomer Brunner, Israel


Re: Panevezys and Vilkomir #lithuania

Eilat Gordin Levitan
 

On 6/3/06, Ivysimoff@aol.com <Ivysimoff@aol.com> wrote:I am
researching Paneveyz and Vilkomer. Are any of these cities in the
realm of this research?
Dear Ivy,

I created a page for Paneveyz/ Panevezys, I posted many old pictures
as well as pictures >from my visit there last year.
www.eilatgordinlevitan.com for the home page to all the towns or go
directly to Panevezys;
http://www.eilatgordinlevitan.com/panevezys/panevezys.html
There is a picture of the building of the well known Yeshiva of
Panevezys ( it is a bakery this days)

I would love to add your old family pictures and details of family who
lived in Panevezys to the site.
Thank you very much,

Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles

MODERATOR'S NOTE: To send photos or information to Eilat, please
respond privately.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Panevezys and Vilkomir #lithuania

Eilat Gordin Levitan
 

On 6/3/06, Ivysimoff@aol.com <Ivysimoff@aol.com> wrote:I am
researching Paneveyz and Vilkomer. Are any of these cities in the
realm of this research?
Dear Ivy,

I created a page for Paneveyz/ Panevezys, I posted many old pictures
as well as pictures >from my visit there last year.
www.eilatgordinlevitan.com for the home page to all the towns or go
directly to Panevezys;
http://www.eilatgordinlevitan.com/panevezys/panevezys.html
There is a picture of the building of the well known Yeshiva of
Panevezys ( it is a bakery this days)

I would love to add your old family pictures and details of family who
lived in Panevezys to the site.
Thank you very much,

Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles

MODERATOR'S NOTE: To send photos or information to Eilat, please
respond privately.


Pre-Soviet Maps of Galicia #poland

OFER BICK <ofer@...>
 

How can I obtain a map of Drogobych >from the years before the Soviets.
I have the address of my father, Michael Bick, in Drogobych, >from Polish
times, but apparently the Soviets renamed all the streets.

One day, I plan to visit Drogobych, but without an old map, I may never
be able to find his street address.

Ofer Bick


JRI Poland #Poland Pre-Soviet Maps of Galicia #poland

OFER BICK <ofer@...>
 

How can I obtain a map of Drogobych >from the years before the Soviets.
I have the address of my father, Michael Bick, in Drogobych, >from Polish
times, but apparently the Soviets renamed all the streets.

One day, I plan to visit Drogobych, but without an old map, I may never
be able to find his street address.

Ofer Bick


Re: JRI birth records #poland

Mark Halpern
 

Dear Moshe:

I must assume that you are referring to Galician record indices
contained in the JRI-Poland online database as the occurrence of such
entries is common in Galicia.

The "r" in these cases is an abbreviation for the Latin "Recte," which
means correctly. In your case, MARGULIES r. WILNER means that this
person may use MARGULIES as their surname, but correctly should use
WILNER. This situation is usually the result of the parents of this
person not having registered a Civil marriage. Jews in Galicia were
always married in religious ceremonies, but many of these marriages were
not recognized by the Austrian Government. In this case, the Austrian
authorities consider this birth to be illegitimate and "assign" the
mother's surname to the child. If this person "wrongly" uses the
father's surname, this may be corrected in the record of the birth of
this person's children.

Jewish vital records registrars in Galicia applied the laws and
regulations on illegitimacy inconsistently, so more research is
required to confirm the assumption that this person's father's surname
was MARGULIES and the mother's surname was WILNER.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
Dear Friends
I encountered in the JRI birth records that I was searching, the
following
surname of the mother: "Margulies r Willner". Can someone tell me the
meaning of the letter "r". Does it have any bearing on the mother's
maiden
surname, and if this is the case, what is the maiden surname-
Margulies or
Willner.

Moshe Fink, Herzliya, Israel


JRI Poland #Poland Re: JRI birth records #poland

Mark Halpern
 

Dear Moshe:

I must assume that you are referring to Galician record indices
contained in the JRI-Poland online database as the occurrence of such
entries is common in Galicia.

The "r" in these cases is an abbreviation for the Latin "Recte," which
means correctly. In your case, MARGULIES r. WILNER means that this
person may use MARGULIES as their surname, but correctly should use
WILNER. This situation is usually the result of the parents of this
person not having registered a Civil marriage. Jews in Galicia were
always married in religious ceremonies, but many of these marriages were
not recognized by the Austrian Government. In this case, the Austrian
authorities consider this birth to be illegitimate and "assign" the
mother's surname to the child. If this person "wrongly" uses the
father's surname, this may be corrected in the record of the birth of
this person's children.

Jewish vital records registrars in Galicia applied the laws and
regulations on illegitimacy inconsistently, so more research is
required to confirm the assumption that this person's father's surname
was MARGULIES and the mother's surname was WILNER.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
Dear Friends
I encountered in the JRI birth records that I was searching, the
following
surname of the mother: "Margulies r Willner". Can someone tell me the
meaning of the letter "r". Does it have any bearing on the mother's
maiden
surname, and if this is the case, what is the maiden surname-
Margulies or
Willner.

Moshe Fink, Herzliya, Israel


Epstein Family Y-DNA Study #ukraine

Itzhak Epstein
 

Several Epsteins have joined in a Family Tree DNA JewishGen surname project.
Painless mouth swab genetic testing procedures are being used as a promising tool
for breaking through our genealogical brick walls. It might help you to greatly
expand your family tree, and may also help our surname project.

We have identified members of one paternal lineage that has borne the Epstein
surname for several centuries. There are hints of another old line. Most of the
project's current members, however, are patrilineally unrelated to each other.
In addition, most of us have discovered patrilineal relationships to men whose
surnames are not Epstein.

We are working on identifying the various branches of our principal cluster, on
exploring additional clusters, and on connecting our unrelated members to cousins.
To accomplish these goals and to create as broad a search as possible, we need more male Epsteins to contribute a
cheek swab as a DNA sample. If you are female Epstein or an Epstein through female
ancestors, a sample >from an Epstein male relative can represent your family in the
test. If you are not an Epstein, please share this message with Epsteins who may
want to participate in this project.

To join, go to
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=3DR56553&special=3Dtrue
The basic, and most affordable, twelve marker test will indicate to whom you are
probably related. The more advanced tests could help to identify closer and more
certain relationships.
You can start with the 12 marker test and add to it at a later date, using the same
sample.

If you have any questions, please contact Marsha Epstein, our project's volunteer
administrator at
<mailto:epsteindna_admin@earthlink.net>

Itzhak Epstein New York, NY
<mailto:iegen@earthlink.net>


Werbe, Flekman Pages of Testimony and seeking Dr Lakin #ukraine

jspring <jspring@...>
 

Hello Genners:
Re: Descendents of Berish and Dvora WERBE of Kamien Koszyrski.
I am seeking information pertaining to Pages of Testimony given by Dvora
ZINIUK, daughter of Isaac and Rivka VERBA, and the Organization of Kowel
survivors for Abraham, Aharon, and Leibel WERBA.

I am also seeking descendents of Shamai and Sara (Annie?) FLEKMAN of Poritzk
(Poryck.) A page of Testimony was given by Malka BURSHTEIN, sister-in-law of
Eti FLEKMAN.

I would also like to know if its possible to contact Mervyn LAKIN whose
email address posted on the JewishGen Discussion group 23 Dec 1996 was
returned.

Thanks for your help.
J SPRING, Ontario, Canada
Searching FLEKMAN, FLAGMAN, WERBE, WEBER, SPRING, SCHNEE


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Epstein Family Y-DNA Study #ukraine

Itzhak Epstein
 

Several Epsteins have joined in a Family Tree DNA JewishGen surname project.
Painless mouth swab genetic testing procedures are being used as a promising tool
for breaking through our genealogical brick walls. It might help you to greatly
expand your family tree, and may also help our surname project.

We have identified members of one paternal lineage that has borne the Epstein
surname for several centuries. There are hints of another old line. Most of the
project's current members, however, are patrilineally unrelated to each other.
In addition, most of us have discovered patrilineal relationships to men whose
surnames are not Epstein.

We are working on identifying the various branches of our principal cluster, on
exploring additional clusters, and on connecting our unrelated members to cousins.
To accomplish these goals and to create as broad a search as possible, we need more male Epsteins to contribute a
cheek swab as a DNA sample. If you are female Epstein or an Epstein through female
ancestors, a sample >from an Epstein male relative can represent your family in the
test. If you are not an Epstein, please share this message with Epsteins who may
want to participate in this project.

To join, go to
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=3DR56553&special=3Dtrue
The basic, and most affordable, twelve marker test will indicate to whom you are
probably related. The more advanced tests could help to identify closer and more
certain relationships.
You can start with the 12 marker test and add to it at a later date, using the same
sample.

If you have any questions, please contact Marsha Epstein, our project's volunteer
administrator at
<mailto:epsteindna_admin@earthlink.net>

Itzhak Epstein New York, NY
<mailto:iegen@earthlink.net>


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Werbe, Flekman Pages of Testimony and seeking Dr Lakin #ukraine

jspring <jspring@...>
 

Hello Genners:
Re: Descendents of Berish and Dvora WERBE of Kamien Koszyrski.
I am seeking information pertaining to Pages of Testimony given by Dvora
ZINIUK, daughter of Isaac and Rivka VERBA, and the Organization of Kowel
survivors for Abraham, Aharon, and Leibel WERBA.

I am also seeking descendents of Shamai and Sara (Annie?) FLEKMAN of Poritzk
(Poryck.) A page of Testimony was given by Malka BURSHTEIN, sister-in-law of
Eti FLEKMAN.

I would also like to know if its possible to contact Mervyn LAKIN whose
email address posted on the JewishGen Discussion group 23 Dec 1996 was
returned.

Thanks for your help.
J SPRING, Ontario, Canada
Searching FLEKMAN, FLAGMAN, WERBE, WEBER, SPRING, SCHNEE


KLEIN-GETTINGER-SCHOTTENFELD #galicia

adam1gs@...
 

Looking for any members of the JACOB & FANNIE KLEIN Family of Boryslav,
Galicia/Austria and New York City. Daughter SARAH KLEIN married NATHAN GETTINGER.
Daughter MARY KLEIN married LOUIS SCHOTTENFELD. I believe daughter ANNA KLEIN
married LOUIS SMITH. Other children: JOSEPH & PHILLIP KLEIN.
Please contact me if any of these names are connected to your family tree.

Fred Klein
adam1gs@adelphia.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please reply privately.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia KLEIN-GETTINGER-SCHOTTENFELD #galicia

adam1gs@...
 

Looking for any members of the JACOB & FANNIE KLEIN Family of Boryslav,
Galicia/Austria and New York City. Daughter SARAH KLEIN married NATHAN GETTINGER.
Daughter MARY KLEIN married LOUIS SCHOTTENFELD. I believe daughter ANNA KLEIN
married LOUIS SMITH. Other children: JOSEPH & PHILLIP KLEIN.
Please contact me if any of these names are connected to your family tree.

Fred Klein
adam1gs@adelphia.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please reply privately.


Re: What does "Not related" mean? #dna

Elise
 

Karen,

You are correct, by "not related" they mean not related through
their patrilineal (father's father's father's father's) ancestors.
The families could be related through other ancestors, but the DNA
isn't tested for other ancestors. This is because of the science
behind it.

The Y chromosome is passed down essentially intact >from father to
son through every generation, so this is what men are tested for,
especially for surname matching. mtDNA is passed down essentially
intact >from mother to both her male and female children through
every generation, so both men and women can be tested for this.
However, men do not pass the mtDNA on to their children. So the
path >from mother to daughter through each generation is the only
continuous path for mtDNA.

The FTDNA projects are run by individuals, not by FTDNA or
JewishGen. So the lack of a Galician project just means no one has
chosen to start one yet. It's very easy to start a project, just
contact FTDNA if you are interested in starting one and being the
coordinator. I just started a project for the former Polesie region
of Belarus, which I'll be officially announcing on the JewishGen
lists later this month, I hope. I'm still working on getting it
organized.

If anyone on this list has *already* tested with FTDNA and has
patrilineal or matrilineal ancestry >from the Polesie region (ie,
Brest, Kobrin, Pinsk and nearby areas), please contact me. See
this map for more towns in the Polesie region -
<http://www.brestregion.com/pictures/map.gif>.

Thanks,
Elise Friedman
Baltimore, Maryland


DNA Research #DNA RE: What does "Not related" mean? #dna

Elise
 

Karen,

You are correct, by "not related" they mean not related through
their patrilineal (father's father's father's father's) ancestors.
The families could be related through other ancestors, but the DNA
isn't tested for other ancestors. This is because of the science
behind it.

The Y chromosome is passed down essentially intact >from father to
son through every generation, so this is what men are tested for,
especially for surname matching. mtDNA is passed down essentially
intact >from mother to both her male and female children through
every generation, so both men and women can be tested for this.
However, men do not pass the mtDNA on to their children. So the
path >from mother to daughter through each generation is the only
continuous path for mtDNA.

The FTDNA projects are run by individuals, not by FTDNA or
JewishGen. So the lack of a Galician project just means no one has
chosen to start one yet. It's very easy to start a project, just
contact FTDNA if you are interested in starting one and being the
coordinator. I just started a project for the former Polesie region
of Belarus, which I'll be officially announcing on the JewishGen
lists later this month, I hope. I'm still working on getting it
organized.

If anyone on this list has *already* tested with FTDNA and has
patrilineal or matrilineal ancestry >from the Polesie region (ie,
Brest, Kobrin, Pinsk and nearby areas), please contact me. See
this map for more towns in the Polesie region -
<http://www.brestregion.com/pictures/map.gif>.

Thanks,
Elise Friedman
Baltimore, Maryland