They lived in Dnepopetrovsk 1880 thru 1940 trying to
find my family on my father's (SOUCHOTINSKY) side. He left
home in 1917 . There were 11 siblings. 9 brothers and 2
sisters. The father owned a large hardware business. I
beleive they were fairly well off financially.

Dina Souchotinsky Klayman

They lived in Dnepopetrovsk 1880 thru 1940 trying to
find my family on my father's (SOUCHOTINSKY) side. He left
home in 1917 . There were 11 siblings. 9 brothers and 2
sisters. The father owned a large hardware business. I
beleive they were fairly well off financially.

Dina Souchotinsky Klayman

I am looking for information on the children or grandchildren of Lionel
MINCER. He was born in Sterling Kansas prox. 1900-03. He was a lawyer and came to
Chicago in the mid twenties and was associated with the law firm of Brown Fox
and Blumberg.

Dick Mayer Highland Park,Illinois ramayrassoc@aol.com

REMINDER: This is the German Jewish SIG. You do not say how your subject is
connected to Germanyh or Judiasm.

I am looking for information on the children or grandchildren of Lionel
MINCER. He was born in Sterling Kansas prox. 1900-03. He was a lawyer and came to
Chicago in the mid twenties and was associated with the law firm of Brown Fox
and Blumberg.

Dick Mayer Highland Park,Illinois ramayrassoc@aol.com

REMINDER: This is the German Jewish SIG. You do not say how your subject is
connected to Germanyh or Judiasm.

Someone recently posted a question regarding Dresden Holocaust deaths and I
will reply to him direct. However, the following general information
regarding Dresden may be of interest. In place of the traditional
Gedenkbuch, there exists a Buch der Erinnerung issued by the Arbeitskreis
Gedenkbuch der Gesellschaft fuer christlich-juedische Zusammenarbeit Dresden
e.V. Unfortunately, this excellent reference source is only available in CD
form. If readers find that their local libraries do not have this CD (and I hope
they will order them )I would be prepared to search for specific names for them.

Peter Lande Washington DC <pdlande@starpower.net>

Someone recently posted a question regarding Dresden Holocaust deaths and I
will reply to him direct. However, the following general information
regarding Dresden may be of interest. In place of the traditional
Gedenkbuch, there exists a Buch der Erinnerung issued by the Arbeitskreis
Gedenkbuch der Gesellschaft fuer christlich-juedische Zusammenarbeit Dresden
e.V. Unfortunately, this excellent reference source is only available in CD
form. If readers find that their local libraries do not have this CD (and I hope
they will order them )I would be prepared to search for specific names for them.

Peter Lande Washington DC <pdlande@starpower.net>

Thank you to those gersigers who helped me with the DANIELS side of my
family. I received a reply >from someone who is related to my GG
grandmother on the maternal side which was very exciting. Now I need
help with the BLUMENTHAL side of the family. My GG grandfather Hermann
ROTHSCHILD 1847-1906 married Rebecca (Rifka) BLUMENTHAL 1854-1932. It is
alleged that she came >from Hellenthal. Her father was Hermann BLUMENTHAL
and her siblings were Carolina, Fanny, Emma and Vera. Emma we think
married a George GUTHMANN (GUTTMAN) and they were in Detroit in 1967.
Through a letter I know that there were two daughters of ? called Judith
and Susan BLUMENTHAL who immigrated to the USA and were living there in
Chicago during 1967. I do not know the names of their parents but have
the name of a person who travelled with them to the states, an Erna
BLUMENTHAL.My family who were of that era are reluctant to discuss these
names (or anything else about the past) and it is up to me to try to
discover who and where they are. I have looked up their names but there
are two BLUMENTHAL'S Judith and Susan who could be them???? Can anyone
in the States find out any other information or if anyone is related to
the above names.
I have a photo of both Rebecca Rifka and her husband Hermann ROTHSCHILD
and the place where they are buried, in the old Jewish cemetery of Kall,
which is in the Eiffel region near Stadtkyll.

I also have the names of several persons who are buried there and took
photos. If anyone recognises a name please contact me for a copy of the
stone. The names are the following:

1) Friederike ROTHSCHILD geb. Vohs 7 April 1847-20 April 1929
2)Regina LEFFMANN geb Horn 28 June 1849-23 Sept 1930
3)Louis LEFFEMAN 10 Sept 1856 - 9 Sept 1930 Husband of Regina
4)Sybilla KATZ geb Horn 14 April 1847 - 5 Jan 1921
5) Klementine KATZ 14 Nov 1862 - 18 August 1937
6)Rosa WOLFF geb HERZ 2 Feb 1849 - 29 March 1931
7)Salomon RUHR died 14 Jan 1911 and Pauline RUHR geb HERZ died 31 May 1932
8)Hermann VOHS 3 Nov 1868 - 13 July 1927
9)Leopold LEVY 1 June 1894 - 7 April 1950
10)Samauel NATHAN Jan 1854 - 27 Feb 1937
11)Jeannette NATHAN geb HESS 12 feb 1865 - 3 Jan 1930

Hoping these may be of assistance for someone.

Judy Levron Melbourne Australia uran99@bigpond.com

Thank you to those gersigers who helped me with the DANIELS side of my
family. I received a reply >from someone who is related to my GG
grandmother on the maternal side which was very exciting. Now I need
help with the BLUMENTHAL side of the family. My GG grandfather Hermann
ROTHSCHILD 1847-1906 married Rebecca (Rifka) BLUMENTHAL 1854-1932. It is
alleged that she came >from Hellenthal. Her father was Hermann BLUMENTHAL
and her siblings were Carolina, Fanny, Emma and Vera. Emma we think
married a George GUTHMANN (GUTTMAN) and they were in Detroit in 1967.
Through a letter I know that there were two daughters of ? called Judith
and Susan BLUMENTHAL who immigrated to the USA and were living there in
Chicago during 1967. I do not know the names of their parents but have
the name of a person who travelled with them to the states, an Erna
BLUMENTHAL.My family who were of that era are reluctant to discuss these
names (or anything else about the past) and it is up to me to try to
discover who and where they are. I have looked up their names but there
are two BLUMENTHAL'S Judith and Susan who could be them???? Can anyone
in the States find out any other information or if anyone is related to
the above names.
I have a photo of both Rebecca Rifka and her husband Hermann ROTHSCHILD
and the place where they are buried, in the old Jewish cemetery of Kall,
which is in the Eiffel region near Stadtkyll.

I also have the names of several persons who are buried there and took
photos. If anyone recognises a name please contact me for a copy of the
stone. The names are the following:

1) Friederike ROTHSCHILD geb. Vohs 7 April 1847-20 April 1929
2)Regina LEFFMANN geb Horn 28 June 1849-23 Sept 1930
3)Louis LEFFEMAN 10 Sept 1856 - 9 Sept 1930 Husband of Regina
4)Sybilla KATZ geb Horn 14 April 1847 - 5 Jan 1921
5) Klementine KATZ 14 Nov 1862 - 18 August 1937
6)Rosa WOLFF geb HERZ 2 Feb 1849 - 29 March 1931
7)Salomon RUHR died 14 Jan 1911 and Pauline RUHR geb HERZ died 31 May 1932
8)Hermann VOHS 3 Nov 1868 - 13 July 1927
9)Leopold LEVY 1 June 1894 - 7 April 1950
10)Samauel NATHAN Jan 1854 - 27 Feb 1937
11)Jeannette NATHAN geb HESS 12 feb 1865 - 3 Jan 1930

Hoping these may be of assistance for someone.

Judy Levron Melbourne Australia uran99@bigpond.com

Does anyone have a current telephone number for
Grisha Chosid in Grodno that they know is good, and
works. So far my family has not got an answer on the
numbers I have been given. We have tried for 3
weeks.

Shalom,
Yehudah ben Shlomo
U.S.A.

Replies must be privately to: ybs1207@yahoo.com

Does anyone have a current telephone number for
Grisha Chosid in Grodno that they know is good, and
works. So far my family has not got an answer on the
numbers I have been given. We have tried for 3
weeks.

Shalom,
Yehudah ben Shlomo
U.S.A.

Replies must be privately to: ybs1207@yahoo.com

Dear all,

I am placing this search for my friend Samuel Goldfinger, who is looking for
relatives of his mother Paula STEINER/SZTEINER, who was born in 1918 in
Kazimierza Wielka (40 miles east of Krakow).

She fled in 1939 to the east and married 1944 in Thashkent (Uzbekistan)
Monjek GOLDFINGER >from Chocholow (near Zakopane)

After the war both have been in the DP-camp Berlin=Schlachtensee and later
in the DP-camp Bad Salzschlirf.

Any information is very appreciated. Thank you!

Anja Listmann, Hosenfeld, Germany

Dear all,

I am placing this search for my friend Samuel Goldfinger, who is looking for
relatives of his mother Paula STEINER/SZTEINER, who was born in 1918 in
Kazimierza Wielka (40 miles east of Krakow).

She fled in 1939 to the east and married 1944 in Thashkent (Uzbekistan)
Monjek GOLDFINGER >from Chocholow (near Zakopane)

After the war both have been in the DP-camp Berlin=Schlachtensee and later
in the DP-camp Bad Salzschlirf.

Any information is very appreciated. Thank you!

Anja Listmann, Hosenfeld, Germany

Dear all,

I am placing this search for my friend Samuel GOLDFINGER, who is looking for
relatives of his father Monjek GOLDFINGER, who was born in 1915 in Chocholow
(now Zakopane)

He fled in 1939 to the east and married 1944 in Thashkent (Uzbekistan) Paula
STEINER/SZTEINER >from Kazimierza Wielka (near Krakow).

After the war both have been in the DP-camp Berlin-Schlachtensee and later
in the DP-camp Bad Salzschlirf.

Any information is very appreciated. Thank you!

Anja Listmann, Hosenfeld, Germany

Dear all,

I am placing this search for my friend Samuel GOLDFINGER, who is looking for
relatives of his father Monjek GOLDFINGER, who was born in 1915 in Chocholow
(now Zakopane)

He fled in 1939 to the east and married 1944 in Thashkent (Uzbekistan) Paula
STEINER/SZTEINER >from Kazimierza Wielka (near Krakow).

After the war both have been in the DP-camp Berlin-Schlachtensee and later
in the DP-camp Bad Salzschlirf.

Any information is very appreciated. Thank you!

Anja Listmann, Hosenfeld, Germany

Am I alone in, when reading an email, I look to see where the email is coming
from? Not just the name but also the place? I find it does sometimes help to
know where the writer is situated and what facilities might be open to them.
It is no good telling someone of the resource centres to visit in London or
America when they might be in opposite sides of the world. I often read the
signatures and think, yes, but where are you? Or am I just being nosey?

Shirley Collier
usually East of London
now in Shoham Israel

Researching:
BIERMAN, Lublin; HARRIS, Sieradz; ROZAINSKY/WAPNIARZ- Lomza
TILLES/TRINKENREICH - Tarnow/Krakow

Am I alone in, when reading an email, I look to see where the email is coming
from? Not just the name but also the place? I find it does sometimes help to
know where the writer is situated and what facilities might be open to them.
It is no good telling someone of the resource centres to visit in London or
America when they might be in opposite sides of the world. I often read the
signatures and think, yes, but where are you? Or am I just being nosey?

Shirley Collier
usually East of London
now in Shoham Israel

Researching:
BIERMAN, Lublin; HARRIS, Sieradz; ROZAINSKY/WAPNIARZ- Lomza
TILLES/TRINKENREICH - Tarnow/Krakow

Jewish Genealogical Society of Palm Beach County Inc., Florida

www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org

Fifteenth Anniversary Celebration Luncheon Meeting response has been
overwhelming!

Final notice for reservations!
When: Sunday, January 29th, 2006
Where: Boca Raton Marriott at Boca Center, Boca Raton,FL
Time: 11:00 AM: Registration and informal get together on the patio.
11:45 AM: Luncheon

Guest Speaker: Dr. Stephen P. Morse.

TOPIC: One-Step Web Pages: A Potpourri of Genealogical Search Tools.
Steve Morse, a renowned,dynamic speaker in the genealogical world, is
welcomed back by popular demand! His presentation covers material of great
value to any serious genealogist.

Directions to Hotel:

from the South:

I-95 North to Palmetto Park Rd., (Exit #44) Exit West (Left). Proceed to
the second stop light (Military Trail). Turn Right. Proceed to the second
stop light (Town Center Road). Turn Right. Proceed past the next stop sign
and continue on the road as it curves Left. You are now at the front
entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

from the North:

I-95 South to Palmetto Park Road (Exit #44) Exit West (Right). Proceed to
the second stop light (Military Trail) Turn Right. Proceed to the second
stop light (Town Center Road). Turn Right. Proceed past the next stop sign
and continue on the road as it curves left. You are now at the front
entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

from the West:

Glades Road East to Butts Road Intersection. Turn Right onto Butts Road.
Proceed to the end of the road (approximately ½ mile). Turn Left. Proceed
past the next stop light and continue on the road as it curves Left. You are
now at the front entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

Parking: Self parking is free. Handicapped Parking spaces free to
sticker/tag holders. Valet parking $5.00.

Information and reservations: Joan Sarasky jgsarasky@earthlink.net
or Betty Perloe bnp1925@aol.com

Dennis Rice, President drtigers@aol.com
Jacqueline Fineblit, E-mail coordinator jsfine@adelphia.net

Dear Genners,

Several weeks ago the opinion was offered that certain Biblical names were
forbidden to Jews in Russia because they were used by Orthodox Russians.
This seemed extremely dubious to me at the time, but as I have remarked, it
is difficult to prove a negative—that no such prohibition ever existed. I
have been making some inquiries about this matter—a message posted with the
SEELANGS [Slavic] list, etc.—and have reached the following conclusion:
Such an edict, decree, law, or prohibition never existed. If anyone can
demonstrate in a scholarly way that I am wrong, I will donate $100 to
JewishGen in that person’s honor, and send an apologetic message to the
list. Here are some reasons for my conclusion:

The Old Testament names that are found with Russians—Abram,
Moisey, Isey, David, Osip, etc.—were used by Old Believers, not by
mainstream Russian Orthodox. The Russian Orthodox church, like the French,
required that Baptismal names be taken >from a rather short list of names,
mostly of Byzantine Greek (Aleksey, Georgy, Aleksandr, Nikolay, Tatiana,
Natalia, Sofiya, etc.) or Scandinavian (Varangian—the original rulers of Rus’)
origin (Oleg, Olga, Vladimir, etc.). The only common Biblical name that
readily comes to mind is Mariya—Manya, Masha, etc. were its nicknames-- and
curiously, this name was also used by the Jews in Russia. In fact, a
historian responding to my query shot back with Lev Davidovich Bronshtein
[Trotsky] and Roman Osipovich Jakobson [linguists will know…]. Needless to
say, the Russian government was not interested in protecting Old Believer
names >from the Jews—in many periods the Old Believers and other Christian
sects were persecuted worse than the Jews.

Which leads me to my next point. The Russian Empire, stretching

from Poland in the West to the Pacific, contained large numbers of Roman

Catholics, Lutherans, Pentacostal sects, Muslims, Buddhists, and pagan
animists. There was no logical consistent legislation covering all groups,
but separate policies for each one. But not even the Imperial bureaucracy
could concern itself with naming policy for all these groups, other than to
include the father’s name as a patronymic.

Another reason: during most or all of Tsarist Russia's time, the
assimilation of the Jews was desired. The Russian government encouraged,
even added, the establishment of choral synagogues where the Russian
language was to be used. A Jewish community that used Russian names was
welcomed, not discouraged by the government.

And finally, as everyone familiar with Russian society and culture will
readily admit, if such a decree existed somewhere, it no doubt could have
been overlooked for the price of a bottle of vodka.

In a message dealing with this topic, it was suggested that
names like Duwid showed that such a law existed. Duwid, like Dowid, Dovid,
was simply the local Yiddish pronunciation of David. My wife’s father was
Chaim Nussyn D., named after his grandfather, the author of an early Hebrew
genealogy book, Chaim Nathan D. Nussyn was simply the Galicianer
pronunciation of Nathan. These regional vowel changes actually sort of go
along with similar changes taking place in the local language. Litvak Dovid
is used in the area where Lithuanian changes long ‘a’ to long ‘o’; in
Polish long ‘o’ changed to ‘u’ (cf. grod with an accent mark—pronounced
grood), Polish Yid. Duvid. By the way, pupik reflects the original Slavic
vowel, cf. Russian pupovina—umbilical cord, while pipik is a Yiddish dialect
change. I suspect that one reason Moishe pipik is funny is because to the
ears of a Litvak it sounds funny. In my Litvish family a pupik was a pupik,
but Moishe pipik was good for a chuckle.

Jules Levin
Los Angeles

Jewish Genealogical Society of Palm Beach County Inc., Florida

www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org

Fifteenth Anniversary Celebration Luncheon Meeting response has been
overwhelming!

Final notice for reservations!
When: Sunday, January 29th, 2006
Where: Boca Raton Marriott at Boca Center, Boca Raton,FL
Time: 11:00 AM: Registration and informal get together on the patio.
11:45 AM: Luncheon

Guest Speaker: Dr. Stephen P. Morse.

TOPIC: One-Step Web Pages: A Potpourri of Genealogical Search Tools.
Steve Morse, a renowned,dynamic speaker in the genealogical world, is
welcomed back by popular demand! His presentation covers material of great
value to any serious genealogist.

Directions to Hotel:

from the South:

I-95 North to Palmetto Park Rd., (Exit #44) Exit West (Left). Proceed to
the second stop light (Military Trail). Turn Right. Proceed to the second
stop light (Town Center Road). Turn Right. Proceed past the next stop sign
and continue on the road as it curves Left. You are now at the front
entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

from the North:

I-95 South to Palmetto Park Road (Exit #44) Exit West (Right). Proceed to
the second stop light (Military Trail) Turn Right. Proceed to the second
stop light (Town Center Road). Turn Right. Proceed past the next stop sign
and continue on the road as it curves left. You are now at the front
entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

from the West:

Glades Road East to Butts Road Intersection. Turn Right onto Butts Road.
Proceed to the end of the road (approximately ½ mile). Turn Left. Proceed
past the next stop light and continue on the road as it curves Left. You are
now at the front entrance of the Boca Raton Marriott.

Parking: Self parking is free. Handicapped Parking spaces free to
sticker/tag holders. Valet parking $5.00.

Information and reservations: Joan Sarasky jgsarasky@earthlink.net
or Betty Perloe bnp1925@aol.com

Dennis Rice, President drtigers@aol.com
Jacqueline Fineblit, E-mail coordinator jsfine@adelphia.net

Dear Genners,

Several weeks ago the opinion was offered that certain Biblical names were
forbidden to Jews in Russia because they were used by Orthodox Russians.
This seemed extremely dubious to me at the time, but as I have remarked, it
is difficult to prove a negative—that no such prohibition ever existed. I
have been making some inquiries about this matter—a message posted with the
SEELANGS [Slavic] list, etc.—and have reached the following conclusion:
Such an edict, decree, law, or prohibition never existed. If anyone can
demonstrate in a scholarly way that I am wrong, I will donate $100 to
JewishGen in that person’s honor, and send an apologetic message to the
list. Here are some reasons for my conclusion:

The Old Testament names that are found with Russians—Abram,
Moisey, Isey, David, Osip, etc.—were used by Old Believers, not by
mainstream Russian Orthodox. The Russian Orthodox church, like the French,
required that Baptismal names be taken >from a rather short list of names,
mostly of Byzantine Greek (Aleksey, Georgy, Aleksandr, Nikolay, Tatiana,
Natalia, Sofiya, etc.) or Scandinavian (Varangian—the original rulers of Rus’)
origin (Oleg, Olga, Vladimir, etc.). The only common Biblical name that
readily comes to mind is Mariya—Manya, Masha, etc. were its nicknames-- and
curiously, this name was also used by the Jews in Russia. In fact, a
historian responding to my query shot back with Lev Davidovich Bronshtein
[Trotsky] and Roman Osipovich Jakobson [linguists will know…]. Needless to
say, the Russian government was not interested in protecting Old Believer
names >from the Jews—in many periods the Old Believers and other Christian
sects were persecuted worse than the Jews.

Which leads me to my next point. The Russian Empire, stretching

from Poland in the West to the Pacific, contained large numbers of Roman

Catholics, Lutherans, Pentacostal sects, Muslims, Buddhists, and pagan
animists. There was no logical consistent legislation covering all groups,
but separate policies for each one. But not even the Imperial bureaucracy
could concern itself with naming policy for all these groups, other than to
include the father’s name as a patronymic.

Another reason: during most or all of Tsarist Russia's time, the
assimilation of the Jews was desired. The Russian government encouraged,
even added, the establishment of choral synagogues where the Russian
language was to be used. A Jewish community that used Russian names was
welcomed, not discouraged by the government.

And finally, as everyone familiar with Russian society and culture will
readily admit, if such a decree existed somewhere, it no doubt could have
been overlooked for the price of a bottle of vodka.

In a message dealing with this topic, it was suggested that
names like Duwid showed that such a law existed. Duwid, like Dowid, Dovid,
was simply the local Yiddish pronunciation of David. My wife’s father was
Chaim Nussyn D., named after his grandfather, the author of an early Hebrew
genealogy book, Chaim Nathan D. Nussyn was simply the Galicianer
pronunciation of Nathan. These regional vowel changes actually sort of go
along with similar changes taking place in the local language. Litvak Dovid
is used in the area where Lithuanian changes long ‘a’ to long ‘o’; in
Polish long ‘o’ changed to ‘u’ (cf. grod with an accent mark—pronounced
grood), Polish Yid. Duvid. By the way, pupik reflects the original Slavic
vowel, cf. Russian pupovina—umbilical cord, while pipik is a Yiddish dialect
change. I suspect that one reason Moishe pipik is funny is because to the
ears of a Litvak it sounds funny. In my Litvish family a pupik was a pupik,
but Moishe pipik was good for a chuckle.

Jules Levin
Los Angeles