Date   

Unlinked relatives - what to do? #general

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

Tom wonders what to do with unlinked but nearly certainly relatives.
I have a one family name that I am researching. All HIM[M]ELOCH
family are related. So if I come across an unknown HIMMELHOCH, my
solution is to enter him into the database and if I want to be sure
not to miss any there, and I know a probable link, I link them with
the name

[probable link] Isaac HIMELHOCH

That way, I know that there is more work to be done. Also, when I
look in the index on a sort for first name, all the [probable link]
names are sorted together so that I know exactly what I am looking
for and what I have to do.

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Unlinked relatives - what to do? #general

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

Tom wonders what to do with unlinked but nearly certainly relatives.
I have a one family name that I am researching. All HIM[M]ELOCH
family are related. So if I come across an unknown HIMMELHOCH, my
solution is to enter him into the database and if I want to be sure
not to miss any there, and I know a probable link, I link them with
the name

[probable link] Isaac HIMELHOCH

That way, I know that there is more work to be done. Also, when I
look in the index on a sort for first name, all the [probable link]
names are sorted together so that I know exactly what I am looking
for and what I have to do.

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel


Re: Unlinked relatives - what to do? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:54:24 UTC, tom.vene@uol.com.br (Tom Venetianer)
opined:

If a genealogical researcher has identified a relative but can't establish the
link to his/her family tree, what should s/he do with that information?

Should this "unlinkable" person be added to the family tree without a link or
not? (here I mean the software which stores the family tree).

If not, how to store it in order to be able to use that information in the
future when an eventual link is uncovered?
I have a similar problem, and I do not suppose it is unique or
unusual, as you will see if you visit my website and choose the
ISMACH database. There are families large and small, that I believe
are ultimately connected, even though I don't know how to do that.
Formerly, there were more. As each of these "temporarily" (I hope)
families grows with time and my sweat, sometimes I get lucky and am
able to connect it to another. In the meantime, it is an unconnected
knot of individuals and cousins. If your software can't do that, you
may wish to investigate alternatives that can. (No names please.) In
that case, you might like to consider the excellent freeware that
permits this solution, and also enables me to post my databases on the
internet in an easily understandable and maintainable form.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address
is not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email
form there.


Re: Unlinked Relatives #general

Vivian Kahn
 

Dear Tom,

I use software (contact me off-list and I'll give you specifics) which
allows a researcher to add "unrelated" individuals to a family file.
These folks don't show up when you print a descendant report or
generate a tree but the names, dates, and places do appear in the index
that the program generates for each family file. When I come across
information about a new potential relative, it's very easy to check the
index to see if there's a possible match. I've added scores of
"unrelated" persons who appeared to be potential relatives based on
names, birth places, or other evidence. In a number of instances I
have eventually found information that allowed me to add the proverbial
missing link.

Vivian Kahn


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unlinked relatives - what to do? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:54:24 UTC, tom.vene@uol.com.br (Tom Venetianer)
opined:

If a genealogical researcher has identified a relative but can't establish the
link to his/her family tree, what should s/he do with that information?

Should this "unlinkable" person be added to the family tree without a link or
not? (here I mean the software which stores the family tree).

If not, how to store it in order to be able to use that information in the
future when an eventual link is uncovered?
I have a similar problem, and I do not suppose it is unique or
unusual, as you will see if you visit my website and choose the
ISMACH database. There are families large and small, that I believe
are ultimately connected, even though I don't know how to do that.
Formerly, there were more. As each of these "temporarily" (I hope)
families grows with time and my sweat, sometimes I get lucky and am
able to connect it to another. In the meantime, it is an unconnected
knot of individuals and cousins. If your software can't do that, you
may wish to investigate alternatives that can. (No names please.) In
that case, you might like to consider the excellent freeware that
permits this solution, and also enables me to post my databases on the
internet in an easily understandable and maintainable form.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address
is not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email
form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unlinked Relatives #general

Vivian Kahn
 

Dear Tom,

I use software (contact me off-list and I'll give you specifics) which
allows a researcher to add "unrelated" individuals to a family file.
These folks don't show up when you print a descendant report or
generate a tree but the names, dates, and places do appear in the index
that the program generates for each family file. When I come across
information about a new potential relative, it's very easy to check the
index to see if there's a possible match. I've added scores of
"unrelated" persons who appeared to be potential relatives based on
names, birth places, or other evidence. In a number of instances I
have eventually found information that allowed me to add the proverbial
missing link.

Vivian Kahn


Yizkor Book Project Report for January 2006 #poland

Joyce Field
 

In January 2006 two new books and 13 updates went online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/translations.html. We added a new
category to the Index page, called Other Languages, which is a list
of yizkor books that have been translated into languages other than
English. This feature accommodates the needs of readers who cannot
read English and were having difficulty finding the translations into
other languages. There are now four categories: Regions,
Communities, Miscellaneous, and Other Languages. Please scroll
through these categories to familiarize yourself with the
organization of the Yizkor Book Index page.

All new material is flagged each month.

New books:

-Kamen Kashirskiy, Ukraine
-Katowice, Poland

Updates:

-Belchatow, Poland
-Brest, Belarus
-Ilya, Belarus
-Novohrad-Volyns'kyy, Ukraine
-Orgeyev, Moldova
-Pochayev, Ukraine
-Podgaytsy, Ukraine
-Radzyn Podalski, Poland
-Ryki, Poland (Polish translation)
-Sosnowiec, Poland
-Zaklikow, Poland
-Zgierz, Poland (Polish translation)
-Zloczew, Poland

You can help build this site by donating translations >from the yizkor
books of your ancestral town and by donating money to allow us to
hire professional translators to translate the books listed at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.
Check the Yizkor Book Database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/database.html for information on
yizkor books which have been written. Also check the tables of
contents of the Pinkas HaKehillot volumes (listed in the Regions
Category) for towns which have not been translated.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition
jfield@jewishgen.org


DOMB/Nashelsk,poland #general

NCCN <wcayf@...>
 

I am hoping to find someone that might shed some light on the grandparents
of a friend, Abraham DOMB married to Krind'l or Krindel (Kathern in this
country) maiden name Skornik.

Do these names show up in anyone's tree. Can someone tell us where Nashelsk
is? What known town it is near. Thank you

Nadine Cherney Brown for Doreen DOMB

Reply privatley to: wcayf@nccn.net


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Yizkor Book Project Report for January 2006 #poland

Joyce Field
 

In January 2006 two new books and 13 updates went online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/translations.html. We added a new
category to the Index page, called Other Languages, which is a list
of yizkor books that have been translated into languages other than
English. This feature accommodates the needs of readers who cannot
read English and were having difficulty finding the translations into
other languages. There are now four categories: Regions,
Communities, Miscellaneous, and Other Languages. Please scroll
through these categories to familiarize yourself with the
organization of the Yizkor Book Index page.

All new material is flagged each month.

New books:

-Kamen Kashirskiy, Ukraine
-Katowice, Poland

Updates:

-Belchatow, Poland
-Brest, Belarus
-Ilya, Belarus
-Novohrad-Volyns'kyy, Ukraine
-Orgeyev, Moldova
-Pochayev, Ukraine
-Podgaytsy, Ukraine
-Radzyn Podalski, Poland
-Ryki, Poland (Polish translation)
-Sosnowiec, Poland
-Zaklikow, Poland
-Zgierz, Poland (Polish translation)
-Zloczew, Poland

You can help build this site by donating translations >from the yizkor
books of your ancestral town and by donating money to allow us to
hire professional translators to translate the books listed at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.
Check the Yizkor Book Database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/database.html for information on
yizkor books which have been written. Also check the tables of
contents of the Pinkas HaKehillot volumes (listed in the Regions
Category) for towns which have not been translated.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition
jfield@jewishgen.org


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen DOMB/Nashelsk,poland #general

NCCN <wcayf@...>
 

I am hoping to find someone that might shed some light on the grandparents
of a friend, Abraham DOMB married to Krind'l or Krindel (Kathern in this
country) maiden name Skornik.

Do these names show up in anyone's tree. Can someone tell us where Nashelsk
is? What known town it is near. Thank you

Nadine Cherney Brown for Doreen DOMB

Reply privatley to: wcayf@nccn.net


Yizkor Book Project Report for January 2006 #poland

Joyce Field
 

In January 2006 two new books and 13 updates went online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/translations.html. We added a new
category to the Index page, called Other Languages, which is a list
of yizkor books that have been translated into languages other than
English. This feature accommodates the needs of readers who cannot
read English and were having difficulty finding the translations into
other languages. There are now four categories: Regions,
Communities, Miscellaneous, and Other Languages. Please scroll
through these categories to familiarize yourself with the
organization of the Yizkor Book Index page.

All new material is flagged each month.

New books:

-Kamen Kashirskiy, Ukraine
-Katowice, Poland

Updates:

-Belchatow, Poland
-Brest, Belarus
-Ilya, Belarus
-Novohrad-Volyns'kyy, Ukraine
-Orgeyev, Moldova
-Pochayev, Ukraine
-Podgaytsy, Ukraine
-Radzyn Podalski, Poland
-Ryki, Poland (Polish translation)
-Sosnowiec, Poland
-Zaklikow, Poland
-Zgierz, Poland (Polish translation)
-Zloczew, Poland

You can help build this site by donating translations >from the yizkor
books of your ancestral town and by donating money to allow us to
hire professional translators to translate the books listed at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.
Check the Yizkor Book Database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/database.html for information on
yizkor books which have been written. Also check the tables of
contents of the Pinkas HaKehillot volumes (listed in the Regions
Category) for towns which have not been translated.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition
jfield@jewishgen.org


JRI Poland #Poland Yizkor Book Project Report for January 2006 #poland

Joyce Field
 

In January 2006 two new books and 13 updates went online at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/translations.html. We added a new
category to the Index page, called Other Languages, which is a list
of yizkor books that have been translated into languages other than
English. This feature accommodates the needs of readers who cannot
read English and were having difficulty finding the translations into
other languages. There are now four categories: Regions,
Communities, Miscellaneous, and Other Languages. Please scroll
through these categories to familiarize yourself with the
organization of the Yizkor Book Index page.

All new material is flagged each month.

New books:

-Kamen Kashirskiy, Ukraine
-Katowice, Poland

Updates:

-Belchatow, Poland
-Brest, Belarus
-Ilya, Belarus
-Novohrad-Volyns'kyy, Ukraine
-Orgeyev, Moldova
-Pochayev, Ukraine
-Podgaytsy, Ukraine
-Radzyn Podalski, Poland
-Ryki, Poland (Polish translation)
-Sosnowiec, Poland
-Zaklikow, Poland
-Zgierz, Poland (Polish translation)
-Zloczew, Poland

You can help build this site by donating translations >from the yizkor
books of your ancestral town and by donating money to allow us to
hire professional translators to translate the books listed at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23.
Check the Yizkor Book Database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/database.html for information on
yizkor books which have been written. Also check the tables of
contents of the Pinkas HaKehillot volumes (listed in the Regions
Category) for towns which have not been translated.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition
jfield@jewishgen.org


Re: FHC Film of Jewish records in Posen, Prussia #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Dear Carolyn:

If the alphabet is Hebrew, you're not looking at a civil register. Not
that the people who entered the records were anything less than civil,
I'm sure--but the authorities in charge of Posen/Poznan and surroundings
in those years--or any other years--were quite unfamiliar with the
aleph-beth.

But you've pointed out a serious issue: as long as we're not all living
next door to one another, we need a database of film notes. Yes, the
LDS catalogue has a great deal of detail, but it's often not enough.
"Death records" or "Todesurkunden" or whatever doesn't tell you whether
the item you're about to order is a civil register of deaths, a set of
burial permits/certificates, a yizkor book, a gravesite index, a
cemetery payment/maintenance book, a legacy register, or something else
entirely.

To paraphrase Will Rogers, "I don't belong to any organized religion.
I'm Jewish." Records >from one town can look entirely different >from
allegedly similar ones >from the next town. More important, the records
that survive are often a hodgepodge, representing some years but not
others, some events but not others, some parts of a county, etc. but not
others. This is not to say that we need to be fatalistic about the
sources available to us--after all, researchers find new materials in
the archives all the time. (Stanley Diamond announced a new find just
minutes ago.)

But we need to remember that there's no "standard" set of records, and
that we should be on our toes, i.e., should't make assumptions, when we
start looking. I doubt the Family History Library would allow us to put
Post-It (tm) notes on the catalogue entries; but we'd do well to
establish some sort of exchange of information of the sort that you,
Carolyn, are and were looking for.

What would such a resource look like? Let's brainstorm.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ USA

Carolyn Lea wrote:


I ordered the FHC Film # 1334544, Judische Toten, und Familienlisten
1800-1850 for Posen (now Poznan). I am searching for records on my
ggg-grandfather, Elias (Eli) SCHWARZBAUM, wife Clara SHWESENSKY, known
sons Isaac, Gabriel, Moritz, daughter Ernestine? The language given
for the film was German and Hebrew but the only German word is "page"
- I did not adequately read the notes section which warns the text is
in Hebrew with some Yiddish. Is anyone familiar with this film? Does
anyone know if it (or the records) has been translated into English or
even German? Would these be civil records (the film identifies only
as "Jewish records") and if not would I need to know the Hebrew names?
I looked on the Steve Morse site and he has Hebrew cursive but this
film is very hard to read with fairly small print - especially hard
for someone unfamiliar with Hebrew.
If anyone can offer any help or suggestions or knows of a translation
available please email me.


Jaffe family - Rashi descent #poland

Chaim freedman
 

Jim Bennet suggested (on Jewishgen and JRI-Poland) DNA testing to determine
relationships of various Jaffe families.

I would like to highly recommend this project particularly as some of the
Jaffes hold a tradition of descent >from Rashi and thereby >from King David.

However, I don't believe that the tradition of descent >from Rashi is valid.

I've studied many sources and there is no convincing evidence. I studied the
late Dr. Paul Jacoby's Jaffe files and he says: "Traditional descent from
Rashi claimed for the earliest (or anyway for some later) members of the
Jaffe family. See para ........[blank] of the Introductory Notes." The
introductory notes are missing >from the file at the National and University
Library at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

This is hardly conclusive evidence.

I believe that the confusion arose >from Levinstein's comment on page 154 of
"Ir Tehilah" (Feinstein, A.L. Warsaw 1885) where he states that Yekhiel
Mikhel Epstein was a son-in-law of Mordekhai Jaffe the Levush, and the
son-in-law of Yekhiel-Mikhel was Avraham Heiprin who was a descendant of
Elkhanan of the Baalei Hatosafot, who was descended >from Rashi. But that
does not mean that the Levush was descended >from Elkhanan.

It is probably this comment which H. Rosenthal misread and made the
statement which appears in the Jewish Encyclopedia (Funk and Wagnals 1903).
But even there Rosenthal casts doubt on the Jaffe tradition of Rashi
descent stating "Levenstein's conclusions, however, have not yet been
substantiated". Yet others adopted this to claim that the Jaffes are
of Rashi descent.

Furthermore, having studied Jacoby's comments about the theoretic ancestors
of the Levush ( and other Jaffes) I do not see proof of descent one >from the
other, nor that they used Jaffe as a surname. The Levush refers to himself
as "I the sewer Mordekhai, called Jaffe (or good looking) son of Adoni Avi
Hekhasid Reb Avraham"

He does not ascribe any rabbinic titles to his father, hardly in keeping
with the identification of his father as a great scholar in Prague etc.

Jacoby's Jaffe file is full of such terms as " revolving sequence of given
names", "not as a family name", "mere phantoms created by confusion with",
"father's name not certain".

So, I doubt that there was A JAFFE FAMILY as such before the Levush's
descendants adopted the surname, as did others, who may or may not be
related to each other.

I consulted the authoritative rabbinical critical genealogy expert Rabbi
Shlomo Englard and he likewise has not seen any proof of Jaffe descent
from Rashi.
I plan to put together an article bringing all the sources, the majority of
which do not claim Rashi descent for the Levush or the Jaffe family.

One possibility of acquiring further evidence would be to extend the DNA
sampling to include the Heilprin family and any other families claiming male
descent >from Elkhanan and thereby perhaps to establish a "Rashi Davidic
Marker" for the male lines descended >from Rashi's daughters.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il

See Davidic Dynasty http://www.davidicdynasty.org/

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Since this message is a response to a post made
on the JRI-Poland list, it is being published here. However, further
discussion of Rashi descent is not within the scope of the JRI-Poland
list. The RAV-SIG list is the best place for discussion about rabbinic
research.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: FHC Film of Jewish records in Posen, Prussia #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Dear Carolyn:

If the alphabet is Hebrew, you're not looking at a civil register. Not
that the people who entered the records were anything less than civil,
I'm sure--but the authorities in charge of Posen/Poznan and surroundings
in those years--or any other years--were quite unfamiliar with the
aleph-beth.

But you've pointed out a serious issue: as long as we're not all living
next door to one another, we need a database of film notes. Yes, the
LDS catalogue has a great deal of detail, but it's often not enough.
"Death records" or "Todesurkunden" or whatever doesn't tell you whether
the item you're about to order is a civil register of deaths, a set of
burial permits/certificates, a yizkor book, a gravesite index, a
cemetery payment/maintenance book, a legacy register, or something else
entirely.

To paraphrase Will Rogers, "I don't belong to any organized religion.
I'm Jewish." Records >from one town can look entirely different >from
allegedly similar ones >from the next town. More important, the records
that survive are often a hodgepodge, representing some years but not
others, some events but not others, some parts of a county, etc. but not
others. This is not to say that we need to be fatalistic about the
sources available to us--after all, researchers find new materials in
the archives all the time. (Stanley Diamond announced a new find just
minutes ago.)

But we need to remember that there's no "standard" set of records, and
that we should be on our toes, i.e., should't make assumptions, when we
start looking. I doubt the Family History Library would allow us to put
Post-It (tm) notes on the catalogue entries; but we'd do well to
establish some sort of exchange of information of the sort that you,
Carolyn, are and were looking for.

What would such a resource look like? Let's brainstorm.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ USA

Carolyn Lea wrote:


I ordered the FHC Film # 1334544, Judische Toten, und Familienlisten
1800-1850 for Posen (now Poznan). I am searching for records on my
ggg-grandfather, Elias (Eli) SCHWARZBAUM, wife Clara SHWESENSKY, known
sons Isaac, Gabriel, Moritz, daughter Ernestine? The language given
for the film was German and Hebrew but the only German word is "page"
- I did not adequately read the notes section which warns the text is
in Hebrew with some Yiddish. Is anyone familiar with this film? Does
anyone know if it (or the records) has been translated into English or
even German? Would these be civil records (the film identifies only
as "Jewish records") and if not would I need to know the Hebrew names?
I looked on the Steve Morse site and he has Hebrew cursive but this
film is very hard to read with fairly small print - especially hard
for someone unfamiliar with Hebrew.
If anyone can offer any help or suggestions or knows of a translation
available please email me.


JRI Poland #Poland Jaffe family - Rashi descent #poland

Chaim freedman
 

Jim Bennet suggested (on Jewishgen and JRI-Poland) DNA testing to determine
relationships of various Jaffe families.

I would like to highly recommend this project particularly as some of the
Jaffes hold a tradition of descent >from Rashi and thereby >from King David.

However, I don't believe that the tradition of descent >from Rashi is valid.

I've studied many sources and there is no convincing evidence. I studied the
late Dr. Paul Jacoby's Jaffe files and he says: "Traditional descent from
Rashi claimed for the earliest (or anyway for some later) members of the
Jaffe family. See para ........[blank] of the Introductory Notes." The
introductory notes are missing >from the file at the National and University
Library at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

This is hardly conclusive evidence.

I believe that the confusion arose >from Levinstein's comment on page 154 of
"Ir Tehilah" (Feinstein, A.L. Warsaw 1885) where he states that Yekhiel
Mikhel Epstein was a son-in-law of Mordekhai Jaffe the Levush, and the
son-in-law of Yekhiel-Mikhel was Avraham Heiprin who was a descendant of
Elkhanan of the Baalei Hatosafot, who was descended >from Rashi. But that
does not mean that the Levush was descended >from Elkhanan.

It is probably this comment which H. Rosenthal misread and made the
statement which appears in the Jewish Encyclopedia (Funk and Wagnals 1903).
But even there Rosenthal casts doubt on the Jaffe tradition of Rashi
descent stating "Levenstein's conclusions, however, have not yet been
substantiated". Yet others adopted this to claim that the Jaffes are
of Rashi descent.

Furthermore, having studied Jacoby's comments about the theoretic ancestors
of the Levush ( and other Jaffes) I do not see proof of descent one >from the
other, nor that they used Jaffe as a surname. The Levush refers to himself
as "I the sewer Mordekhai, called Jaffe (or good looking) son of Adoni Avi
Hekhasid Reb Avraham"

He does not ascribe any rabbinic titles to his father, hardly in keeping
with the identification of his father as a great scholar in Prague etc.

Jacoby's Jaffe file is full of such terms as " revolving sequence of given
names", "not as a family name", "mere phantoms created by confusion with",
"father's name not certain".

So, I doubt that there was A JAFFE FAMILY as such before the Levush's
descendants adopted the surname, as did others, who may or may not be
related to each other.

I consulted the authoritative rabbinical critical genealogy expert Rabbi
Shlomo Englard and he likewise has not seen any proof of Jaffe descent
from Rashi.
I plan to put together an article bringing all the sources, the majority of
which do not claim Rashi descent for the Levush or the Jaffe family.

One possibility of acquiring further evidence would be to extend the DNA
sampling to include the Heilprin family and any other families claiming male
descent >from Elkhanan and thereby perhaps to establish a "Rashi Davidic
Marker" for the male lines descended >from Rashi's daughters.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il

See Davidic Dynasty http://www.davidicdynasty.org/

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Since this message is a response to a post made
on the JRI-Poland list, it is being published here. However, further
discussion of Rashi descent is not within the scope of the JRI-Poland
list. The RAV-SIG list is the best place for discussion about rabbinic
research.


Whereabouts of Bull Court? #unitedkingdom

Naomi Fellerman <nfellerman@...>
 

I have located my 3 x great-grandfather Isaac Isaacs on the 1851 census
living at 3 Bull Court, in the Parish of Christ Church, Borough of Tower
Hamlets, does anyone have any idea of the location of Bull Court - I
know there was one in Sandys Row but is that the same one?

I am planning to attend the Anglo-Jewish SIG meeting on Sunday and look
forward to meeting people then. I am also hoping to attend the Family
History Day at the British Library on 12th with my Mother.

Regards

Naomi Fellerman
Edgware

Researching:
FELLERMAN - London/Holland
FONTYN - London
ISAACS - London
GOODMAN - Lodz/London
GEPSTEIN - Kherson/London


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Whereabouts of Bull Court? #unitedkingdom

Naomi Fellerman <nfellerman@...>
 

I have located my 3 x great-grandfather Isaac Isaacs on the 1851 census
living at 3 Bull Court, in the Parish of Christ Church, Borough of Tower
Hamlets, does anyone have any idea of the location of Bull Court - I
know there was one in Sandys Row but is that the same one?

I am planning to attend the Anglo-Jewish SIG meeting on Sunday and look
forward to meeting people then. I am also hoping to attend the Family
History Day at the British Library on 12th with my Mother.

Regards

Naomi Fellerman
Edgware

Researching:
FELLERMAN - London/Holland
FONTYN - London
ISAACS - London
GOODMAN - Lodz/London
GEPSTEIN - Kherson/London


Re: Stationer #unitedkingdom

jeremy frankel
 

Dear Faith,

I don't know how long you have lived in California, but the word
"stationer" has other connotations. My paternal grandfather started
his own business which was "G.I. Frankel, Stationer and Printers"
which eventually ended up at 374 Commercial Road, Stepney, London. My
father inherited the business in 1951. Actually he was born there
"above the shop" in 1930. (I mention all this because where your
grandfather lived wasn't a million miles away >from my father shop).

The shop had not a newspaper in sight, save perhaps one my father
bought to read. A stationer's shop sold pens, pencils, erasers,
greeting cards, rulers, protractors and so forth. I think you get the
gist. Perhaps there were shops that also sold newspapers, but I think
I am right in saying that if you asked most people what a stationer's
shop was, they would say that it sold items like I have mentioned.

According to the OED, a stationer was one who sold books or writing
materials and writing table appurtenances. Stationery being the
"writing materials" sold by a stationer.

I hope this clears up any mystery. And no it wasn't someone who
simply stood around (doing nothing!).

Jeremy G Frankel
ex-Edgware, Middlesex, England
Berkeley, California, USA

"...He was listed as retired and in business as a stationer (which
I'm assuming is an English name for newspaper distributor?)..."


Relatives who stopped off in Manchester,England from Augustov #poland

marvins S kaplan <mkaplan1@...>
 

My mothers family (Tenrosen.... maiden name Steinberg.... >from
Augustov or its vacinity) lived in Manchester, England >from 1901 to
about 1905.

I suspect that they changed their name during the stay in England. I
know that my mother attended school (under the age of 5) in Manchester
and that other children in the family were placed in a hospital with
scarlet fever. My guess guess is that they lived with relatives in
Manchester before embarking for America..

I am seeking some basic information such as:

What was (or is) the name of the Manchester area that most of the Jewish
immigrants lived (e.g. Oldham, Rochdale etc)?
Does anybody know the name of the elementary school in that area ?
Does anybody know the name of the area hospital ?

Thanks in advance for any help......
I can supply grandparents names >from Augustov area... and info that
they owned a mill in the Augustov area.

Marvin S Kaplan

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