Date   

Kollel Galicia in Jerusalem-Some Initial Genealogical Remarks #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners and Siggers,

Following the posting of Israel Pickholtz I visited the Kollel yesterday.I
looked only at the file of Brzesko(Briegel in Yiddish)where my maternal family
KOENIGSBUCH hails from,but >from the format I got the impression that it applies
to other locations as well. The lists of the donors are on quarterly basis. They
are handwritten but clear on pages which more or less fit the A4 format(the
Kollel has a small xerox copier with A3 pages only).

Now to genealogy:

1.The lists are not in alphabetical order.So one has to go patiently through
each page. Most of the donors are males but sometimes you find there females as
well.
2.Since the lists cover the 1924/5-1938/8 period they give a list of the
residents of the Shtetl on the eve of WW2.The big disadvantage is that they
cover only the individuals who were connected to the Kollel but not other
Jewish residents of the Shtetl.
3. Comparing or making a cross reference with the 1929 Polish Business
Directory and with Yad Vashem Pages of Tetimony may yield fruitful results.
It gives the Jewish given name of the donor.
4. Some names disappear at a certain stage which might be an indication to the
year of death of a certain donor( like with my ggrandmother Rudel KOENIGSBUCH).
On the other hand some names start appearing only in the mid 1930s,which is also
an indication of coming of age.
5. Since the donation is mentioned clearly and the same individual donated
usually more or less the same sum every quarter it might give some indication
to the economic state of the donor.
6. Sometimes a donation was given in memory of a deceased person which again
provides a clue via the date of death.
7. As mentioned by Mrs. Spalter (Galicia-SIG), very small hamlets and villages
are included on a side sheet of the "mother shtetl". Well quite a goldmine but
needs a lot of "zitsfleish".
Regards >from Jerusalem.
Jacob Rosen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kollel Galicia in Jerusalem-Some Initial Genealogical Remarks #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners and Siggers,

Following the posting of Israel Pickholtz I visited the Kollel yesterday.I
looked only at the file of Brzesko(Briegel in Yiddish)where my maternal family
KOENIGSBUCH hails from,but >from the format I got the impression that it applies
to other locations as well. The lists of the donors are on quarterly basis. They
are handwritten but clear on pages which more or less fit the A4 format(the
Kollel has a small xerox copier with A3 pages only).

Now to genealogy:

1.The lists are not in alphabetical order.So one has to go patiently through
each page. Most of the donors are males but sometimes you find there females as
well.
2.Since the lists cover the 1924/5-1938/8 period they give a list of the
residents of the Shtetl on the eve of WW2.The big disadvantage is that they
cover only the individuals who were connected to the Kollel but not other
Jewish residents of the Shtetl.
3. Comparing or making a cross reference with the 1929 Polish Business
Directory and with Yad Vashem Pages of Tetimony may yield fruitful results.
It gives the Jewish given name of the donor.
4. Some names disappear at a certain stage which might be an indication to the
year of death of a certain donor( like with my ggrandmother Rudel KOENIGSBUCH).
On the other hand some names start appearing only in the mid 1930s,which is also
an indication of coming of age.
5. Since the donation is mentioned clearly and the same individual donated
usually more or less the same sum every quarter it might give some indication
to the economic state of the donor.
6. Sometimes a donation was given in memory of a deceased person which again
provides a clue via the date of death.
7. As mentioned by Mrs. Spalter (Galicia-SIG), very small hamlets and villages
are included on a side sheet of the "mother shtetl". Well quite a goldmine but
needs a lot of "zitsfleish".
Regards >from Jerusalem.
Jacob Rosen


Re: search before posting...telephone numbers #general

ac <anitac47@...>
 

Yes...people posting to this group should do their own preliminary
research...but if they've come up empty-handed, online discussion
groups--with the feedback >from knowledgeable participants who have had
access to useful databases -- are wonderful in enabling researchers to make
breakthroughs. I know I've received so much help in these postings, that
I'm happy to return the favor.

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
I agree but I would not want to assume on what anyone does or does not know
or what they have or haven't done. It does make sense for anyone asking for
help to let us know what and where s/he has searched. It makes no sense to
merely end up telling someone what they already know--or to assume they
know it when they don't. That also goes for letting us know the city/state
or city and country of the person so that s/he can be referred to
geographically convenient sources.

Regards,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching: NADWORNY anywhere and everywhere


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: search before posting...telephone numbers #general

ac <anitac47@...>
 

Yes...people posting to this group should do their own preliminary
research...but if they've come up empty-handed, online discussion
groups--with the feedback >from knowledgeable participants who have had
access to useful databases -- are wonderful in enabling researchers to make
breakthroughs. I know I've received so much help in these postings, that
I'm happy to return the favor.

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
I agree but I would not want to assume on what anyone does or does not know
or what they have or haven't done. It does make sense for anyone asking for
help to let us know what and where s/he has searched. It makes no sense to
merely end up telling someone what they already know--or to assume they
know it when they don't. That also goes for letting us know the city/state
or city and country of the person so that s/he can be referred to
geographically convenient sources.

Regards,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching: NADWORNY anywhere and everywhere


Re: Leivik - a Hebrew Name? Update #general

Jules Levin
 

Rochelle Gershenow wrote
Thank you to the many Genners who responded to me privately or on the list
about my inquiry about whether Leivik is a Hebrew name. My father listed
Leivik as his Hebrew name on paperwork for a burial society. I need to know
what Hebrew name to put on his tombstone this coming year. So,I wanted to
determine what was the correct Hebrew name as I didn't think Leivik was
Hebrew. >from somewhere deep down in my memory I remembered my father
telling me that he was called Leibl boychik.

The answers I received >from people ran the gamut:

The Hebrew name is either Aryeh, Judah, Lev, or Levi.
Leivik is either a diminutive of the Hebrew "Levi" or the Yiddish "Leib" or
"Lev."

Well, I did get an answer to my original question, i.e., Leivik is not a
Hebrew name. Now, the decision as to what name to use has to be made.
My father was Louis [also "lion"] in English, Leib in "yiddish", except he only
used Leib in shul. After I became sophisticated I began giving my name as
Yehudah ben Aryeh, until I happened to discuss the situation with a Liubovicher,
who said that Leib, like Aleksander, could be used as a Hebrew name, and if
that's all he ever used, *that* is what I should use in shul. So now I am again
Yehuda ben Leib. Note that there could have *not* been Yehudah behind Leib for
my father, since both *his* father, and his son were named Yehudah. I suggest you
add Leib to your conundrum.
Jules Levin
Los Angeles


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Leivik - a Hebrew Name? Update #general

Jules Levin
 

Rochelle Gershenow wrote
Thank you to the many Genners who responded to me privately or on the list
about my inquiry about whether Leivik is a Hebrew name. My father listed
Leivik as his Hebrew name on paperwork for a burial society. I need to know
what Hebrew name to put on his tombstone this coming year. So,I wanted to
determine what was the correct Hebrew name as I didn't think Leivik was
Hebrew. >from somewhere deep down in my memory I remembered my father
telling me that he was called Leibl boychik.

The answers I received >from people ran the gamut:

The Hebrew name is either Aryeh, Judah, Lev, or Levi.
Leivik is either a diminutive of the Hebrew "Levi" or the Yiddish "Leib" or
"Lev."

Well, I did get an answer to my original question, i.e., Leivik is not a
Hebrew name. Now, the decision as to what name to use has to be made.
My father was Louis [also "lion"] in English, Leib in "yiddish", except he only
used Leib in shul. After I became sophisticated I began giving my name as
Yehudah ben Aryeh, until I happened to discuss the situation with a Liubovicher,
who said that Leib, like Aleksander, could be used as a Hebrew name, and if
that's all he ever used, *that* is what I should use in shul. So now I am again
Yehuda ben Leib. Note that there could have *not* been Yehudah behind Leib for
my father, since both *his* father, and his son were named Yehudah. I suggest you
add Leib to your conundrum.
Jules Levin
Los Angeles


Re: Was there a port in Odessa circa 1921? #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

I suggest you go to the following web site as a start to your research and
read about Odessa, it very busy port and its Jews. There are several
references mentioned too which can give you more detailed information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa

You might also go to the following 1902 Encyclopedia site which mentions
connections to London: http://www.1902-encyclopedia.com/O/ODE/odessa.html

Actually, Jews could reach London >from Odessa by either the water route or
by train.

You might like to take advantage of posting to the Ukraine SIG and also
visit their web site on JewishGen at: http://www.jewishgen.org/Ukraine/

Ann Rabinowitz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Was there a port in Odessa circa 1921? #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

I suggest you go to the following web site as a start to your research and
read about Odessa, it very busy port and its Jews. There are several
references mentioned too which can give you more detailed information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa

You might also go to the following 1902 Encyclopedia site which mentions
connections to London: http://www.1902-encyclopedia.com/O/ODE/odessa.html

Actually, Jews could reach London >from Odessa by either the water route or
by train.

You might like to take advantage of posting to the Ukraine SIG and also
visit their web site on JewishGen at: http://www.jewishgen.org/Ukraine/

Ann Rabinowitz


Re: Was there a port in Odessa circa 1921? #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

<Redball62@aol.com> wrote
Dear Group,

I am trying to help a friend validate a story that she heard >from her
family members. Does anyone know if there was a port in Odessa, Russia where
one could take a ship to England circa 1921? If so, are there any online
sources for these ships? Are there any online sources for passengers who
arrived in England during this time period?
Whilst the Moving Here Project of the UK National Archive definitely refers
to Odessa as a point of departure for Britain
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/jewish/journeys/journeys.htm
it is unlikely that such a journey would have taken place in 1921.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/OdessUkr_History.asp records that
Odessa was taken over by the Red Army in 1920.

On the other hand http://www.bh.org.il/Exhibitions/Odessa/community.asp does
say that a group of authors led by Bialik did leave Odessa for
Constantinople in June 1921.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Was there a port in Odessa circa 1921? #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

<Redball62@aol.com> wrote
Dear Group,

I am trying to help a friend validate a story that she heard >from her
family members. Does anyone know if there was a port in Odessa, Russia where
one could take a ship to England circa 1921? If so, are there any online
sources for these ships? Are there any online sources for passengers who
arrived in England during this time period?
Whilst the Moving Here Project of the UK National Archive definitely refers
to Odessa as a point of departure for Britain
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/jewish/journeys/journeys.htm
it is unlikely that such a journey would have taken place in 1921.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/OdessUkr_History.asp records that
Odessa was taken over by the Red Army in 1920.

On the other hand http://www.bh.org.il/Exhibitions/Odessa/community.asp does
say that a group of authors led by Bialik did leave Odessa for
Constantinople in June 1921.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


Moshe (Morris) Bersin #southafrica

Mike Stern <mike@...>
 

Hi, Ann

I have had an incredible time with the new Latvian database, and perhaps
this is an opportunity to express my thanks to whoever contributed,
whether in time or funds, to the translation of the various lists.

The lists confirmed many theories we had about family connections of the
Bersins, and we immediately located two branches of the family we were
not aware of - one brother's family who stayed in Rezekne up to the
late 30's ( while the others lit out for South Africa), and then made
Aliyah, and another sister we suspect went to the States in 1906, and
of whom we are awaiting confirmation.

Based solely on computer work ( and collecting information >from the
family) we have managed to determine that my great-great- grandfather
was Idel Bersin who was born in Rezekne in 1815, and died there in 1896.
This gives us 8 generations for the Bersin family. I understand that
the next step will be to approach the State Archives in Latvia.

The Kopmans are slightly more elusive, but we will get round to them.

I had no idea what databases were available for South Africa, and many
participants in the SIG have kindly enlightened me. Yes, there are
records for Morris Bersin, who owned property in Plumstead and died
there in 1934, and records of his widow, Sonia, who left with her grown
sons and daughter for Rhodesia in the late '30s.

I have enough material to work on for the coming year - again, my thanks
to all who have helped me along the way.

Mike Stern
Petah Tikva, Israel


Hoda Kruger- Maiden name #southafrica

Anita Fischer <anitwal@...>
 

I would like to know what records in South Africa would show the maiden
name of Hoda Kruger who was married to Moshe Benjamin Kruger. They were from
Krekenava and lived in Johannesburg. Hoda died about 1950. The family in
Johannesburg have been unable to help me. Hoda was my grandmother's sister
and I am trying to confirm their family name. My grandmother was married to
Chaim Tvi Chaimovitch of Krekenava and the records I have found for him do
not give her maiden name.

Anita Fischer,
anitwal@videotron.ca


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Moshe (Morris) Bersin #southafrica

Mike Stern <mike@...>
 

Hi, Ann

I have had an incredible time with the new Latvian database, and perhaps
this is an opportunity to express my thanks to whoever contributed,
whether in time or funds, to the translation of the various lists.

The lists confirmed many theories we had about family connections of the
Bersins, and we immediately located two branches of the family we were
not aware of - one brother's family who stayed in Rezekne up to the
late 30's ( while the others lit out for South Africa), and then made
Aliyah, and another sister we suspect went to the States in 1906, and
of whom we are awaiting confirmation.

Based solely on computer work ( and collecting information >from the
family) we have managed to determine that my great-great- grandfather
was Idel Bersin who was born in Rezekne in 1815, and died there in 1896.
This gives us 8 generations for the Bersin family. I understand that
the next step will be to approach the State Archives in Latvia.

The Kopmans are slightly more elusive, but we will get round to them.

I had no idea what databases were available for South Africa, and many
participants in the SIG have kindly enlightened me. Yes, there are
records for Morris Bersin, who owned property in Plumstead and died
there in 1934, and records of his widow, Sonia, who left with her grown
sons and daughter for Rhodesia in the late '30s.

I have enough material to work on for the coming year - again, my thanks
to all who have helped me along the way.

Mike Stern
Petah Tikva, Israel


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Hoda Kruger- Maiden name #southafrica

Anita Fischer <anitwal@...>
 

I would like to know what records in South Africa would show the maiden
name of Hoda Kruger who was married to Moshe Benjamin Kruger. They were from
Krekenava and lived in Johannesburg. Hoda died about 1950. The family in
Johannesburg have been unable to help me. Hoda was my grandmother's sister
and I am trying to confirm their family name. My grandmother was married to
Chaim Tvi Chaimovitch of Krekenava and the records I have found for him do
not give her maiden name.

Anita Fischer,
anitwal@videotron.ca


Re: Have you had this experience? #general

Sara Lynns
 

Like to thank those of you who responded to:
"have you had this experience?"
I forgive my mother, who was an immigrant lost family in the Holocaust
my sense is, there are things she chose not to share,
that died with her, unfortunately

it's important to accept people for who they are and
for where they are in their lives

Jackie Lerner-Aderman
Tigard, OR


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Have you had this experience? #general

Sara Lynns
 

Like to thank those of you who responded to:
"have you had this experience?"
I forgive my mother, who was an immigrant lost family in the Holocaust
my sense is, there are things she chose not to share,
that died with her, unfortunately

it's important to accept people for who they are and
for where they are in their lives

Jackie Lerner-Aderman
Tigard, OR


Re: Saying Where You Are #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Yehudh bn Shlmo" <ybs1207@yahoo.com> wrote
I have yet to hear a good reason why it is necessary
for anyone to give a location. And my person opinion,
is that it is just being snoopy. However, if you are
curious, ask. But please don't refuse to provide a
vital link about someone's family if they don't give a location.
After all, If a person said I am looking for an Obit for Jane
Doe >from 1966 in New York City, what significance does
the person's location have, other than providing what
time of day it is where they are?
If I knew that you lived in NY I might suggest that you visit New York City
Library whereas if you lived in Australia I would suggest differently.

There was a recent series of postings regarding the S55 form which I believe
relates to Social Security in the USA. I live in the UK but it was assumed
that everyone on the newsgroup would know what was being referred to.

Given that this is an international newsgroup/discussion group it makes a
lot of sense to know where they are posting from, so that potential posters
can make a judgement as to what information/sources/buildings the poster is
likely to have access to.

Of course, if the poster chooses not to reveal that information that is
clearly up to them (and the Moderators).

But I would add that every time someone makes a request for some information
about a relative or an ancestor, they are giving up something personal.

I can't see how this sort of discussion group can work without providing the
kind of information that the poster seems to object to revealing.

I am also concerned about my own personal privacy, but clearly by taking
part in this newsgroup I have given away a little of that.

After all, if I make a comment on someone else's posting regarding the
situation in the US, I would have thought that it was relevant that I live
in England, if nothing else.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


Re: Saying Where You Are #general

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

Yehudah ben Shlomo" <ybs1207@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have yet to hear a good reason why it is necessary
for anyone to give a location. And my person opinion,
is that it is just being snoopy. >
Dear Yehudah;

I'll give you several good reasons.

The first is that, depending upon the question, the answer may be
geographical based. For example, it would be pointless to refer someone to a
film in the FHC catalog if they live in Israel, since there are no FHC's in
Israel. OTOH, if someone is in the USA and the answer is to get a film from
the FHC, knowing their location enables the one answering to list the
closest FHC and the hours. If someone lives in or near NYC, an answer
might send them to the Municipal Archives or NARA or 42nd St. Library, none
of which would be good answers if they lived in Iowa.

Second, I have contacted off-list a couple of people whose postings indicated
a similar research interest to mine, and who lived nearby. I have since
become good friends with a person I met in this manner, and we are able to
help one another with our research. There would have been no way to identify
that he lives close by unless his postings indicated where he lived. Of
course, when I contacted him by email, he always had the choice to not get
together. But why not make friendships based on a common interest?

Lastly, why not list the city-state one is from? You can't think of any
reason to do so; I can't think of any reason not to do so. Among other
things, it is both courteous and required (but not enforced) by the rules
and regulations of JewishGen.


Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Saying Where You Are #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Yehudh bn Shlmo" <ybs1207@yahoo.com> wrote
I have yet to hear a good reason why it is necessary
for anyone to give a location. And my person opinion,
is that it is just being snoopy. However, if you are
curious, ask. But please don't refuse to provide a
vital link about someone's family if they don't give a location.
After all, If a person said I am looking for an Obit for Jane
Doe >from 1966 in New York City, what significance does
the person's location have, other than providing what
time of day it is where they are?
If I knew that you lived in NY I might suggest that you visit New York City
Library whereas if you lived in Australia I would suggest differently.

There was a recent series of postings regarding the S55 form which I believe
relates to Social Security in the USA. I live in the UK but it was assumed
that everyone on the newsgroup would know what was being referred to.

Given that this is an international newsgroup/discussion group it makes a
lot of sense to know where they are posting from, so that potential posters
can make a judgement as to what information/sources/buildings the poster is
likely to have access to.

Of course, if the poster chooses not to reveal that information that is
clearly up to them (and the Moderators).

But I would add that every time someone makes a request for some information
about a relative or an ancestor, they are giving up something personal.

I can't see how this sort of discussion group can work without providing the
kind of information that the poster seems to object to revealing.

I am also concerned about my own personal privacy, but clearly by taking
part in this newsgroup I have given away a little of that.

After all, if I make a comment on someone else's posting regarding the
situation in the US, I would have thought that it was relevant that I live
in England, if nothing else.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Saying Where You Are #general

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

Yehudah ben Shlomo" <ybs1207@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have yet to hear a good reason why it is necessary
for anyone to give a location. And my person opinion,
is that it is just being snoopy. >
Dear Yehudah;

I'll give you several good reasons.

The first is that, depending upon the question, the answer may be
geographical based. For example, it would be pointless to refer someone to a
film in the FHC catalog if they live in Israel, since there are no FHC's in
Israel. OTOH, if someone is in the USA and the answer is to get a film from
the FHC, knowing their location enables the one answering to list the
closest FHC and the hours. If someone lives in or near NYC, an answer
might send them to the Municipal Archives or NARA or 42nd St. Library, none
of which would be good answers if they lived in Iowa.

Second, I have contacted off-list a couple of people whose postings indicated
a similar research interest to mine, and who lived nearby. I have since
become good friends with a person I met in this manner, and we are able to
help one another with our research. There would have been no way to identify
that he lives close by unless his postings indicated where he lived. Of
course, when I contacted him by email, he always had the choice to not get
together. But why not make friendships based on a common interest?

Lastly, why not list the city-state one is from? You can't think of any
reason to do so; I can't think of any reason not to do so. Among other
things, it is both courteous and required (but not enforced) by the rules
and regulations of JewishGen.


Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA