Date   

Re: Ukraine digest: December 04, 2005 #ukraine

Silverman, Bill <bsilverman@...>
 

I'm confused. The six close match genetic cousins"...what does this
mean. A) They are identifiable as descending >from a known ancestor. Or
B) They have a common genetic marker(s). Do they live in these countries
now, or do their markers identify them as descended >from a population
that lived in those countries at one time, and if so, at what time?
Thanks!
Bill Silverman
SILVERMAN, SADOWSKY, MARGOLIS, DLOGOVSKY

-----Original Message-----
From: Marshall Lerner [mailto:marshalllerner@comcast.net]=20

<snip> My paternal grandfather & great grandfather were >from the border region
of Moldova and Ukraine. I have had my DNA typed and I have discovered 12 close
genetic cousins: 6 >from Lithuania; 2 Belarus; 2 Ukraine; 1 >from Poland & 1
unknown.<snip>


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Ukraine digest: December 04, 2005 #ukraine

Silverman, Bill <bsilverman@...>
 

I'm confused. The six close match genetic cousins"...what does this
mean. A) They are identifiable as descending >from a known ancestor. Or
B) They have a common genetic marker(s). Do they live in these countries
now, or do their markers identify them as descended >from a population
that lived in those countries at one time, and if so, at what time?
Thanks!
Bill Silverman
SILVERMAN, SADOWSKY, MARGOLIS, DLOGOVSKY

-----Original Message-----
From: Marshall Lerner [mailto:marshalllerner@comcast.net]=20

<snip> My paternal grandfather & great grandfather were >from the border region
of Moldova and Ukraine. I have had my DNA typed and I have discovered 12 close
genetic cousins: 6 >from Lithuania; 2 Belarus; 2 Ukraine; 1 >from Poland & 1
unknown.<snip>


NY Times article about origins of Yiddish - 1996 #ukraine

Adina Lipsitz <adina@...>
 

For those interested, I believe the article Al Rosenfield mentioned
may be the following, which can be found in an anthology of Times
articles called _The Science Times Book on Language and Linguistics_
edited by Nicholas Wade (2000, The Lyons Press).

"Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews." George
Johnson, October 1996.

Adina Lipsitz
West Bloomfield, MI

On Dec 5, 2005, at 9:36 AM, Peg and Al Rosenfield wrote:

In regard to your question as to the origin of the Yiddish
language, there was a NY Times article about ten years ago. As I
remember, the language is mainly derived >from German, with a large
dose of Hebrew and a scattering of Romanian.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine NY Times article about origins of Yiddish - 1996 #ukraine

Adina Lipsitz <adina@...>
 

For those interested, I believe the article Al Rosenfield mentioned
may be the following, which can be found in an anthology of Times
articles called _The Science Times Book on Language and Linguistics_
edited by Nicholas Wade (2000, The Lyons Press).

"Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews." George
Johnson, October 1996.

Adina Lipsitz
West Bloomfield, MI

On Dec 5, 2005, at 9:36 AM, Peg and Al Rosenfield wrote:

In regard to your question as to the origin of the Yiddish
language, there was a NY Times article about ten years ago. As I
remember, the language is mainly derived >from German, with a large
dose of Hebrew and a scattering of Romanian.


Important Addition to GerSIG website - Holocaust research by Peter Lande #germany

GerSig@...
 

Holocaust expert Peter Lande has created a new research guide for researching
both victims and survivors. The paper has been added to the GerSIG website
under Holocaust Resources. The direct link is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/majorsources.htm

Peter Lande is a winner of the IAJGS Lifetime Achievement Award.
He is a retired US State Department Foreign Service Officer
and is active at the The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM)
in Washington, D.C.

The first paragraph of Mr. Lande's paper follows:

Major Sources of Information on German/Austrian Holocaust Survivors and
Victims - by Peter Lande
While probably the overwhelming majority of German/Austrian Jewish Holocaust
victims were deported directly >from these countries, many had fled to
neighboring countries in the vain hope that these would prove to be safe havens.
Relatively few perished in their country of origin. Researchers should, therefore,
examine non-German/Austrian sources of information. The following is an
attempt to pull together the major sources of such information, as well as
information on concentration camps, and, finally, survivors.

John Paul Lowens, GerSIG Coordinator <gersig@aol.com>


German SIG #Germany Important Addition to GerSIG website - Holocaust research by Peter Lande #germany

GerSig@...
 

Holocaust expert Peter Lande has created a new research guide for researching
both victims and survivors. The paper has been added to the GerSIG website
under Holocaust Resources. The direct link is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/majorsources.htm

Peter Lande is a winner of the IAJGS Lifetime Achievement Award.
He is a retired US State Department Foreign Service Officer
and is active at the The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM)
in Washington, D.C.

The first paragraph of Mr. Lande's paper follows:

Major Sources of Information on German/Austrian Holocaust Survivors and
Victims - by Peter Lande
While probably the overwhelming majority of German/Austrian Jewish Holocaust
victims were deported directly >from these countries, many had fled to
neighboring countries in the vain hope that these would prove to be safe havens.
Relatively few perished in their country of origin. Researchers should, therefore,
examine non-German/Austrian sources of information. The following is an
attempt to pull together the major sources of such information, as well as
information on concentration camps, and, finally, survivors.

John Paul Lowens, GerSIG Coordinator <gersig@aol.com>


Re: Ukraine digest: December 04, 2005 #ukraine

Marshall Lerner <marshalllerner@...>
 

My paternal grandfather & great grandfather were >from the border region of
Moldova and Ukraine. I have had my DNA typed and I have discovered 12 close
genetic cousins: 6 >from Lithuania; 2 Belarus; 2 Ukraine; 1 >from Poland & 1
unknown. While this sample is too small to be statistically reliable, it
implies a migration >from the Baltic region towards the Black Sea.

If more genealogy adherents participated, we would probably get closer to
discovering the answer about where the Jews in Ukraine moved from. Chances
are that we'll find multiple answers to this difficult question.

There are a number of large scale genetic projects underway to move the
learning in this field along. The "Genographic Project" is an effort to map
how humankind populated the earth. It is a five-year research partnership
between National Geographic and IBM with support >from the Waitt Family
Foundation. One way to participate in the project is through
www.familytreedna.com. There are other reputable organizations involved as
well. Participation is not expensive but I recommend you do some research
beforehand.

[Marshall Lerner]


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Ukraine digest: December 04, 2005 #ukraine

Marshall Lerner <marshalllerner@...>
 

My paternal grandfather & great grandfather were >from the border region of
Moldova and Ukraine. I have had my DNA typed and I have discovered 12 close
genetic cousins: 6 >from Lithuania; 2 Belarus; 2 Ukraine; 1 >from Poland & 1
unknown. While this sample is too small to be statistically reliable, it
implies a migration >from the Baltic region towards the Black Sea.

If more genealogy adherents participated, we would probably get closer to
discovering the answer about where the Jews in Ukraine moved from. Chances
are that we'll find multiple answers to this difficult question.

There are a number of large scale genetic projects underway to move the
learning in this field along. The "Genographic Project" is an effort to map
how humankind populated the earth. It is a five-year research partnership
between National Geographic and IBM with support >from the Waitt Family
Foundation. One way to participate in the project is through
www.familytreedna.com. There are other reputable organizations involved as
well. Participation is not expensive but I recommend you do some research
beforehand.

[Marshall Lerner]


Re: Where are our Ukrainian ancestors previously from? #ukraine

Peg and Al Rosenfield <alanpeg@...>
 

In regard to your question as to the origin of the Yiddish language, there
was a NY Times article about ten years ago. As I remember, the language is
mainly derived >from German, with a large dose of Hebrew and a scattering of
Romanian.

Al Rosenfield
Columbus Ohio


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Where are our Ukrainian ancestors previously from? #ukraine

Peg and Al Rosenfield <alanpeg@...>
 

In regard to your question as to the origin of the Yiddish language, there
was a NY Times article about ten years ago. As I remember, the language is
mainly derived >from German, with a large dose of Hebrew and a scattering of
Romanian.

Al Rosenfield
Columbus Ohio


80,000 birth, marriage, and death records for Poland #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

The Czestochowa-Radomsko Area Research Group is pleased to share more than
80,000 birth, marriage, and death records for these towns east of the
Czestochowa-Radomsko Area:

Bialobrzegi
Chmielnik
Czemierniki
Gowarczow
Ilza
Jedrzejow
Konskie
Opatow
Opole Lubelskie
Ozarow
Przedborz
Radoszyce
Sieganow
Wloszczowa
Zawichost
Zwolen

Please click on "To the East" at the CRARG web site:

http://www.crarg.org/
or
http://www.benkazez.com/dan/crarg/

Dan Kazez
Springfield, Ohio
ANGIELCZYK/ENGLENDER/ENGLANDER (in Mstow, Wancerzow, and Janow; later in
Przyrow, Czestochowa, Zarki, and nearby)
KIFER, TELMAN/TALMAN, JURKIEWICZ, LEWKOWICZ (in Plawno, Radomsko, Gidle, and
nearby; later, in Zgierz and Lodz; my Jurkiewicz and Lewkowicz families
originally came >from Przedborz and Gory Mokre


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen 80,000 birth, marriage, and death records for Poland #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

The Czestochowa-Radomsko Area Research Group is pleased to share more than
80,000 birth, marriage, and death records for these towns east of the
Czestochowa-Radomsko Area:

Bialobrzegi
Chmielnik
Czemierniki
Gowarczow
Ilza
Jedrzejow
Konskie
Opatow
Opole Lubelskie
Ozarow
Przedborz
Radoszyce
Sieganow
Wloszczowa
Zawichost
Zwolen

Please click on "To the East" at the CRARG web site:

http://www.crarg.org/
or
http://www.benkazez.com/dan/crarg/

Dan Kazez
Springfield, Ohio
ANGIELCZYK/ENGLENDER/ENGLANDER (in Mstow, Wancerzow, and Janow; later in
Przyrow, Czestochowa, Zarki, and nearby)
KIFER, TELMAN/TALMAN, JURKIEWICZ, LEWKOWICZ (in Plawno, Radomsko, Gidle, and
nearby; later, in Zgierz and Lodz; my Jurkiewicz and Lewkowicz families
originally came >from Przedborz and Gory Mokre


Re: Isserlein #general

Traude Triebel
 

After the discussion on ISSERLEIN, I found out that
the old Jewish Wiener Neustadt cemetery was destroyed
and could be under a parking area.

A few original gravestones >from this old cemetery can
be seen in the old Wiener Neustadt-Stadtmauer [town wall].

I have contacted three Wiener Neustadt historians, and
they will try to find out which stones have been preserved.

With luck, ISSERLEIN's headstone is amongst them.

The new Jewish cemetery was built in 1890
greetings
Traude Triebel

GRUENWALD: Austria,U.K,Italy
HERNFELD U.K
POLLAK Hungary
SEIDL Austria
WESSELY Austria

Traude Triebel
Wiener Neustadt
Web: http://www.genealogie-gruenwald.reumann.biz/gg/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Isserlein #general

Traude Triebel
 

After the discussion on ISSERLEIN, I found out that
the old Jewish Wiener Neustadt cemetery was destroyed
and could be under a parking area.

A few original gravestones >from this old cemetery can
be seen in the old Wiener Neustadt-Stadtmauer [town wall].

I have contacted three Wiener Neustadt historians, and
they will try to find out which stones have been preserved.

With luck, ISSERLEIN's headstone is amongst them.

The new Jewish cemetery was built in 1890
greetings
Traude Triebel

GRUENWALD: Austria,U.K,Italy
HERNFELD U.K
POLLAK Hungary
SEIDL Austria
WESSELY Austria

Traude Triebel
Wiener Neustadt
Web: http://www.genealogie-gruenwald.reumann.biz/gg/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Found two new cousins #general

Karen Zale
 

Dear Fellow Researchers:
Just to let everyone know that sometimes you get very
lucky. On Saturday I got two confirmed hits from
cousins I did not know about.

The first one was with the help of Dave Fox. In
searching the JewishGen Discussion Group Sig Lists, I
found one posted >from 1999. Dave helped me get in
touch with Alla Volfson in Belarus. It turns out
that her grandfather, Donya SORKIN and my husband's
great grandfather, Hyman SORKIN were brothers. Her
Dad was in the Russian army in 1941, when he returned
home >from the war he found his family had been
murdered. I e mailed her the one picture we had of
this family and her father who is 85 was able to
identify himself as a young boy with his mother,
father and sisters.

The second hit of the day was with the help of Andrew
Sverdlove. He put the Scadryn Family on a web site
www.Idorvdor.net. Alla Olevsky saw a picture that she
has of her family and was so surprised to see the same
photo on his web site. Her great grandfather Hersh
FINKELSTEIN and my husbands grandmother, Sima
FINKELSTEIN SORKIN were brother and sister.

What an exciting weekend this has been. I am at a
brick wall on my mothers side of the family, but with
these surprises you can never tell what might pop up.
So to all, I say don't give up.

Best wishes to everyone for a happy and heathly
holiday season.
Karen and Paul ZALE
Plano, Texas

GREENBERG - Pultusk, Wyszkow
KAPLAN - Chernigov
EHRENFREUND, KELLERMAN - Tarnow
REITMAN, ZALEFSKY - Shereshevo
FINKELSTEIN - Shchedrin
SORKIN - Kapustino, Rogachev


Found two new cousins #general

Karen Zale
 

Dear Fellow Researchers:
Just to let everyone know that sometimes you get very
lucky. On Saturday I got two confirmed hits from
cousins I did not know about.

The first one was with the help of Dave Fox. In
searching the JewishGen Discussion Group Sig Lists, I
found one posted >from 1999. Dave helped me get in
touch with Alla Volfson in Belarus. It turns out
that her grandfather, Donya SORKIN and my husband's
great grandfather, Hyman SORKIN were brothers. Her
Dad was in the Russian army in 1941, when he returned
home >from the war he found his family had been
murdered. I e mailed her the one picture we had of
this family and her father who is 85 was able to
identify himself as a young boy with his mother,
father and sisters.

The second hit of the day was with the help of Andrew
Sverdlove. He put the Scadryn Family on a web site
www.Idorvdor.net. Alla Olevsky saw a picture that she
has of her family and was so surprised to see the same
photo on his web site. Her great grandfather Hersh
FINKELSTEIN and my husbands grandmother, Sima
FINKELSTEIN SORKIN were brother and sister.

What an exciting weekend this has been. I am at a
brick wall on my mothers side of the family, but with
these surprises you can never tell what might pop up.
So to all, I say don't give up.

Best wishes to everyone for a happy and heathly
holiday season.
Karen and Paul ZALE
Plano, Texas

GREENBERG - Pultusk, Wyszkow
KAPLAN - Chernigov
EHRENFREUND, KELLERMAN - Tarnow
REITMAN, ZALEFSKY - Shereshevo
FINKELSTEIN - Shchedrin
SORKIN - Kapustino, Rogachev


William/ Louis/ Benjamin naming questions #lithuania

Susan <susanplouffe@...>
 

Thank you very much to all who have so kindly given me information to work
on regarding my naming questions. I have posted the two tombstones in
question on to viewmate to confirm that indeed they are the exact same name
in Hebrew. (it may take a few days for them to be online)
1.The consensus has been that the children made a mistake with the tombstone
or a Rabbi may have assigned Louis the name "retroactively".
2.The children with the same names as aunts and uncles were probably named
after deceased relatives prior to the aunts and uncles.
3.The name "Benjamin" could have originally been any variation of the name
or the name Wolf.

Susan Plouffe
Vancouver, Canada
Searching:
LIVER/BENJAMIN: Zagare, Kaunas, Lithuania
LEVI/LEVY/LEVEY/LEVER: Wales
Burton-Upon-Trent, Southport, Bournemouth, England
Glasgow, Scotland


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania William/ Louis/ Benjamin naming questions #lithuania

Susan <susanplouffe@...>
 

Thank you very much to all who have so kindly given me information to work
on regarding my naming questions. I have posted the two tombstones in
question on to viewmate to confirm that indeed they are the exact same name
in Hebrew. (it may take a few days for them to be online)
1.The consensus has been that the children made a mistake with the tombstone
or a Rabbi may have assigned Louis the name "retroactively".
2.The children with the same names as aunts and uncles were probably named
after deceased relatives prior to the aunts and uncles.
3.The name "Benjamin" could have originally been any variation of the name
or the name Wolf.

Susan Plouffe
Vancouver, Canada
Searching:
LIVER/BENJAMIN: Zagare, Kaunas, Lithuania
LEVI/LEVY/LEVEY/LEVER: Wales
Burton-Upon-Trent, Southport, Bournemouth, England
Glasgow, Scotland


How the Jews got to Lithuania #lithuania

Ziegelman <zieg_exp@...>
 

The original place of origin of our Litvak ancestors, as for all other Jews,
is Eretz Yisrael. Our Litvak ancestors got to Lithuania in the following
way. In Roman times, before or after the Romans conquered Israel (called in
those days Judea) in 70 AD, Jews migrated to Rome and Italy.

Just last week in Neil Rosenstein's The Lurie Legacy, I read one interesting
Lurie family story about this emigration, authored by the world famous
caricaturist Ra'anan Luria (different spelling of the same name). Ra'anan
Luria writes that his Luria family lore tells of a 2000 year ago ancestor
who in Judea joined up with the Roman army (that drafted into its ranks "the
locals") and traveled with it to Europe where he fought in Roman wars and
finally settled in Germany. The later history of this particular family has
been documented by Neil Rosenstein, dating >from before 1000 CE.

To make a long story short, >from about 100 (or so)-1400 CE, there was a
Jewish presence in England, France and eastern Germany. In 1290 the Jews
were expelled >from England. In the 1300's the Jews were expelled from
France. During the 1300's and 1400's things in Germany were not so hot for
the Jews, while at the same time the kings of Poland were particularly
welcoming. The result was that the Jews migrated eastward, though some
stayed in Germany.

from the 1400's to the 1500's Poland conquered the Ukraine and united with
Lithuania which itself had conquered Belarus. The Jews in Poland and
Lithuania and the other territories were fairly well off, with, however,
plenty of ups and downs, until in the late 1700's weak Poland was three
times parititioned by Prussia, Austria and Russia.

By the time all the partitioning was completed, Prussia got some of western
Poland, including the area's Jews, Austria got Galicia including lots of
Jews, and Russia got the lion's share of Poland - and Lithuania and Belarus
and the Ukraine, all areas with a significant Jewish population.

In about 1775 there were about 300,000 Jews in Poland, 85,000 Jews in
Lithuania, and 75,000 Jews in Belarus/Ukraine. During the 19th century the
Jewish population of these areas increased about sixfold, while the
non-Jewish population increased about fourfold.

Since Russia wanted the Jews to convert to Christianity, it enacted laws to
encourage conversion. But during the 19th century some decades brought hope
that life for the Jews would get better. However in about 1880 there were
pogroms against the Jews, and a kind of collective decision was made by the
Jews to scoot out. >from 1880 to 1930, 4 million Jews emigrated >from Russia,
mostly to the US, but also to Argentina, South Africa and what was then
Turkish-ruled Palestine.

In 1492 the Jews of Spain were expelled >from Spain. The lion's share of them
migrated to north Africa and other Mediterranean countries like Italy and
Turkey. Some migrated to Holland and thence to the new world including to
New Amsterdam (later NY), some to Germany and Prague, and a few migrated to
eastern Europe.

PS- In 1939 Lithuania there were only 250,000 Jews, the same number as had
been there in about 1800. I think that by 1939 about 1 million Jews migrated
from Lithuania. Of the Jews in Lithuania at the outset of WWII, 20,000
survived, 10,000 in the Soviet Union and 10,000 in Lithuania or in German
concentration camps.

Andrea Alpert Ziegelman


Re: ian in names #lithuania

Adam Katzeff <adam.katzeff@...>
 

Dear all,

Barbara Heinrich wrote:

I have noticed that there are several surnames >from Poland ( near the
Lithuanian border) and Lithuania that contain ian in the name. My
grandparents were Gibianski. I have seen other similar names ( Lumpianski
etc). Growing up with the last name of Gibian, I was often asked if I was
Armenian. I have researched our surname in both the volumes about Russian
and Polish names. I can understand that the Gib part originates >from Giby,
but what about the ian? Has anyone every seen anything about the
combination of letters.
The surname ending -ski were mostly put on surnames derived >from names of
towns and villages. In the case of surnames like Gibianski (Gibyanski),
Lumpianski (Lumpyanski) they are most certainly derived >from villages named
Gibyany and Lumpyany. I know >from my own research in Lithuania that many
shtetls had Russian names ending in -yany like Pompyany (Pumpian today),
Okmyany (Akmene today), Popelyany (Papile today) etc.

Perhaps someone with a better knowledge in Russian than me can describe if
the ending -yany means something special.

Best regards,

Adam Katzeff,
Malmoe, Sweden

adam.katzeff@spray.se

Researching:
GOLDBERG: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia; Tallinn, Estonia; Glasgow,
Scotland; Sweden; Denmark; PA+WI, USA.
KATSEV/KATZEFF/KATZOFF/KACEV: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis+Riga, Latvia;
Pärnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Glasgow, Scotland; Sweden; Denmark; MA+GA+NY+CA,
USA.
NEMCHENOK/NEMCHENKO: Yanovichi+Surazh+Velizh+Vitebsk, Belarus; St.
Petersburg, Russia; Paris, France; Sweden; Denmark; NY, USA.