Date   

Re: Seeking ADLER, LIVIUS, SASIENI, ROSENFELD. LEVINE, BAUSKIN #southafrica

Adam Yamey <adamandlopa@...>
 

Does N. ADLER of Port Elizabeth, who was living there
in 1877 mean anything to you?

Adam Yamey.
--- David Conway <smerus@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

I am seeking information about the ADLER family, a
number of whom
arrived in S.Africa around 1880-1900. I give below
the information I
have about them, mainly based on UK census records
and recollections of
a family member in the early 1970s. Any information
about clearing up
the 'unknowns' below will be welcome.

DAVID ADLER, b. 1858 in Middlesex. Arrive SA about
1884. Married a
Catholic, (name unknown) children brought up in
that religion. Was a
jockey, died in riding accident. Children Harry
Selwyn ADLER and
another, name unknown. Further progeny and
descendants (if any) unknown.

SIDNEY ADLER b. about 1865, d. about 1959 in Natal.
Arr. SA about 1886.
m. Kate COHEN. Children born in SA:
1) Laurence David b. 1899. Army medical officer. M.
Flossie Blanche
MICHEL in 1926.
2) Joseph born 1901
3) Minnie
4) Lilly
Further progeny, or descendants of any of these (if
any) unknown.

ELEAZER ADLER b. 1867 Spitalfields, arr. SA about
1890. M. Adelaide
ROSENBERG. Children born in SA:
1) Lily b. 1897. m. Issie BAUSKIN. Children Marcia,
Valerie, Alan.
Further progeny and descendants (if any) unknown.
2) Harry Leonard b. 1898. m. Jean Wortreich.
Children Seymour Alfred,
Phyllis Jean and Roger Alexander.
2a) Seymour m. Meryl BENNETT and had children Hazel
b. 1950, m . David
ROSENFELD, and Neville b. 1956.
2b) Phyllis married Chaim KATZ in Israel in 1949.
2c) Roger married Grete DRUKER and had children
Jennifer b. 1957, Lennie
b. 1959, Tanya b. 1961.
3) Grace b. about 1900 m. LEVINE (first name
unknown) and had children
Joan, Sonia, Reina and Arthur.
4) Maurice b. 1902 m. Jessie RIEFF and had daughter
Lynette. She
married Harold LEVIUS and had four children (names
unknown).
Further progeny and descendants of any of these (if
any) unknown.

REBECCA ADLER born 1871 London. Arr, SA about 1902.
M. Woolf SASIENI.
their son David SASIENI m. his first cousin Fanny
VAN GELDER and they
had twins Maurice and Daphne. Further progeny and
descendants (if any)
unknown.

HENRY ADLER b. 1873 London. Arrive SA about 1894. d.
1917. Hotelier.
Bachelor (?)

ABRAHAM (ALFRED) ADLER b. 1875 London. d. SA about
1903. Progeny and
descendants (if any) unknown.

I will be glad to exchange information of course
about the 'London end'
of the family.

David Conway
London, UK
smerus@blueyonder.co.uk


Re: Records 1920 - 1923 #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

In regard to Beryl Baleson's questions regarding lack of records for the
period of 1920-1923 in official resources in South Africa, I am providing
the following info:

According to Prof. Aubrey Newman who is the expert on the Poor Jews'
Temporary Shelter, his database does not go beyond September, 1914, although
there are further registers which end in 1919. There are some limited lists
existing for the 1930's, but nothing between 1919 and the 1930's.
Sometimes, records are not kept, or disappear or are destroyed accidently or
lost through War and other means. Beryl, there are Juter records relating
to your family in the earlier Shelter records while not for the period when
your family came in 1921 or so.

The limited registers or lists we have for JEWISH naturalizations were not
prepared by the government and therefore are not found in the Archives, but
at the Kaplan Centre. There are naturalization records that are found in
the Archives, although some of the pre-1924 records have disappeared or been
disposed of as I found when I went to look for them.

The same goes for the JEWISH arrival records which are limited to the period
1924-1929 and were not prepared by the government either. However, there
are ships' manifests in the PRO in London relating to arrivals in SA. These
records are part of an indexing project that is underway at the moment that
has been discussed on this digest previously.

There are always going to be natural conditions or various reasons why there
are gaps in records and it isn't always a matter of the records being lost
and needing to be found somewhere. Many times, just changes in government
breaks the continuity of recordkeeping such as may have happened in South
Africa.

In America, for instance, there is almost an entire census year of 1891 that
is missing due to a fire. This was a critical year when many Jewish
families had come to America and there is nothing now to document their
information except perhaps ships' manifests on their arrival. Another
instance is the fire that destroyed Army records at the St. Louis, Missouri
depository.

Also, another instance of missing records is to be found in England as many
records were destroyed during the bombings of WWII. Other records in
certain localities were thrown out when lack of space confronted the keepers
of the records or they forgot to transfer the records to larger
repositories. Others were retained and access denied due to damaging
personal materials in certain of these.

However, I always feel that researchers should keep looking and following
tips they may run across regarding possible locations of missing records.
There is always the possibility that something was misplaced or misfiled or
tucked away in some storage facility and mislabeled.

All this means is that genealogical researchers have to become adept record
scavangers by visiting Archives and other holding repositories, chatting
with staff where possible, talking to old employees, and following leads
from other researchers.
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Seeking ADLER, LIVIUS, SASIENI, ROSENFELD. LEVINE, BAUSKIN #southafrica

Adam Yamey <adamandlopa@...>
 

Does N. ADLER of Port Elizabeth, who was living there
in 1877 mean anything to you?

Adam Yamey.
--- David Conway <smerus@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

I am seeking information about the ADLER family, a
number of whom
arrived in S.Africa around 1880-1900. I give below
the information I
have about them, mainly based on UK census records
and recollections of
a family member in the early 1970s. Any information
about clearing up
the 'unknowns' below will be welcome.

DAVID ADLER, b. 1858 in Middlesex. Arrive SA about
1884. Married a
Catholic, (name unknown) children brought up in
that religion. Was a
jockey, died in riding accident. Children Harry
Selwyn ADLER and
another, name unknown. Further progeny and
descendants (if any) unknown.

SIDNEY ADLER b. about 1865, d. about 1959 in Natal.
Arr. SA about 1886.
m. Kate COHEN. Children born in SA:
1) Laurence David b. 1899. Army medical officer. M.
Flossie Blanche
MICHEL in 1926.
2) Joseph born 1901
3) Minnie
4) Lilly
Further progeny, or descendants of any of these (if
any) unknown.

ELEAZER ADLER b. 1867 Spitalfields, arr. SA about
1890. M. Adelaide
ROSENBERG. Children born in SA:
1) Lily b. 1897. m. Issie BAUSKIN. Children Marcia,
Valerie, Alan.
Further progeny and descendants (if any) unknown.
2) Harry Leonard b. 1898. m. Jean Wortreich.
Children Seymour Alfred,
Phyllis Jean and Roger Alexander.
2a) Seymour m. Meryl BENNETT and had children Hazel
b. 1950, m . David
ROSENFELD, and Neville b. 1956.
2b) Phyllis married Chaim KATZ in Israel in 1949.
2c) Roger married Grete DRUKER and had children
Jennifer b. 1957, Lennie
b. 1959, Tanya b. 1961.
3) Grace b. about 1900 m. LEVINE (first name
unknown) and had children
Joan, Sonia, Reina and Arthur.
4) Maurice b. 1902 m. Jessie RIEFF and had daughter
Lynette. She
married Harold LEVIUS and had four children (names
unknown).
Further progeny and descendants of any of these (if
any) unknown.

REBECCA ADLER born 1871 London. Arr, SA about 1902.
M. Woolf SASIENI.
their son David SASIENI m. his first cousin Fanny
VAN GELDER and they
had twins Maurice and Daphne. Further progeny and
descendants (if any)
unknown.

HENRY ADLER b. 1873 London. Arrive SA about 1894. d.
1917. Hotelier.
Bachelor (?)

ABRAHAM (ALFRED) ADLER b. 1875 London. d. SA about
1903. Progeny and
descendants (if any) unknown.

I will be glad to exchange information of course
about the 'London end'
of the family.

David Conway
London, UK
smerus@blueyonder.co.uk


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica RE: Records 1920 - 1923 #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

In regard to Beryl Baleson's questions regarding lack of records for the
period of 1920-1923 in official resources in South Africa, I am providing
the following info:

According to Prof. Aubrey Newman who is the expert on the Poor Jews'
Temporary Shelter, his database does not go beyond September, 1914, although
there are further registers which end in 1919. There are some limited lists
existing for the 1930's, but nothing between 1919 and the 1930's.
Sometimes, records are not kept, or disappear or are destroyed accidently or
lost through War and other means. Beryl, there are Juter records relating
to your family in the earlier Shelter records while not for the period when
your family came in 1921 or so.

The limited registers or lists we have for JEWISH naturalizations were not
prepared by the government and therefore are not found in the Archives, but
at the Kaplan Centre. There are naturalization records that are found in
the Archives, although some of the pre-1924 records have disappeared or been
disposed of as I found when I went to look for them.

The same goes for the JEWISH arrival records which are limited to the period
1924-1929 and were not prepared by the government either. However, there
are ships' manifests in the PRO in London relating to arrivals in SA. These
records are part of an indexing project that is underway at the moment that
has been discussed on this digest previously.

There are always going to be natural conditions or various reasons why there
are gaps in records and it isn't always a matter of the records being lost
and needing to be found somewhere. Many times, just changes in government
breaks the continuity of recordkeeping such as may have happened in South
Africa.

In America, for instance, there is almost an entire census year of 1891 that
is missing due to a fire. This was a critical year when many Jewish
families had come to America and there is nothing now to document their
information except perhaps ships' manifests on their arrival. Another
instance is the fire that destroyed Army records at the St. Louis, Missouri
depository.

Also, another instance of missing records is to be found in England as many
records were destroyed during the bombings of WWII. Other records in
certain localities were thrown out when lack of space confronted the keepers
of the records or they forgot to transfer the records to larger
repositories. Others were retained and access denied due to damaging
personal materials in certain of these.

However, I always feel that researchers should keep looking and following
tips they may run across regarding possible locations of missing records.
There is always the possibility that something was misplaced or misfiled or
tucked away in some storage facility and mislabeled.

All this means is that genealogical researchers have to become adept record
scavangers by visiting Archives and other holding repositories, chatting
with staff where possible, talking to old employees, and following leads
from other researchers.
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Bessarabia (Moldova) Yizkor Books #romania

Terry Lasky <tlasky@...>
 

There are over 30 Yizkor books dealing with Bessarabia/Moldova or towns
within them. Only four of these books have had any significant portion
of them translated. The book on Rezeny is completed, and although
beautifully written, it was written by one person about her life in that
town. Three other books have been partially translated – Dubossary,
Yedintzi and Orgeyev. These books were written by many different people
and talk about the history of Bessarabia, the Jewish youth groups, The
Jewish sports organizations, the education and cultural organizations,
the labor and cooperative groups, agriculture, the Holocaust and many
other subjects. Sadly not one of these books has been fully translated.

The Orgeyev (Orhei) book talks about all of the Jewish organizations and
the history of Bessarabia and is an excellent example of a typical town
in Bessarabia. It also has over 250 pictures that have been scanned and
put online. Over 80% of this book has been translated and it is
estimated that it will require less than $1000 more to finish the
translation. There are over 1000 researchers who have listed Moldova as
their ancestral country in JGFF. If just 20 of you would donate $50 (or
40 of you donate $25) we could finally have a completed Yizkor book for
Moldova. You do not have to have family >from Orgeyev to want to support
this effort, this book tells about Jewish organizations that existed in
most of the Moldovan shtetls and is typical of all of the towns. This
is the only yizkor book >from Moldova currently requesting donations
through Jewishgen.

Now that we have started a new year please help us get one Yizkor book
completed for the country of Moldova (Bessarabia) this year by going
to
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23
and contributing to the Orhei, Moldova effort.

Terry Lasky
Project Lead
Colorado, USA


Romania SIG #Romania Bessarabia (Moldova) Yizkor Books #romania

Terry Lasky <tlasky@...>
 

There are over 30 Yizkor books dealing with Bessarabia/Moldova or towns
within them. Only four of these books have had any significant portion
of them translated. The book on Rezeny is completed, and although
beautifully written, it was written by one person about her life in that
town. Three other books have been partially translated – Dubossary,
Yedintzi and Orgeyev. These books were written by many different people
and talk about the history of Bessarabia, the Jewish youth groups, The
Jewish sports organizations, the education and cultural organizations,
the labor and cooperative groups, agriculture, the Holocaust and many
other subjects. Sadly not one of these books has been fully translated.

The Orgeyev (Orhei) book talks about all of the Jewish organizations and
the history of Bessarabia and is an excellent example of a typical town
in Bessarabia. It also has over 250 pictures that have been scanned and
put online. Over 80% of this book has been translated and it is
estimated that it will require less than $1000 more to finish the
translation. There are over 1000 researchers who have listed Moldova as
their ancestral country in JGFF. If just 20 of you would donate $50 (or
40 of you donate $25) we could finally have a completed Yizkor book for
Moldova. You do not have to have family >from Orgeyev to want to support
this effort, this book tells about Jewish organizations that existed in
most of the Moldovan shtetls and is typical of all of the towns. This
is the only yizkor book >from Moldova currently requesting donations
through Jewishgen.

Now that we have started a new year please help us get one Yizkor book
completed for the country of Moldova (Bessarabia) this year by going
to
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=23
and contributing to the Orhei, Moldova effort.

Terry Lasky
Project Lead
Colorado, USA


Fw: Ghettos of Gomel region during of the Nazi occupation of Belarus #belarus

Leonid Smilovitsky <smilov@...>
 

Here is the direct link:

http://www.jewishgen.org/Belarus/newsletter/GomelGhettos.htm


regards,
Leonid Smilovitsky


Belarus SIG #Belarus Fw: Ghettos of Gomel region during of the Nazi occupation of Belarus #belarus

Leonid Smilovitsky <smilov@...>
 

Here is the direct link:

http://www.jewishgen.org/Belarus/newsletter/GomelGhettos.htm


regards,
Leonid Smilovitsky


Re: Travel to Belarus #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:36:10 AM

Dear All,

I forgot to mention in my last post that JewishGen's Shtetlschlepper
programme offers an excellent service not just for Belarus but
all countries in Europe. In addition to making in-country arrangements
Joanna Fletcher of Shtetlschleppers can arrange flights and
international land transport: jfletcher@jewishgen.org. Shtelschleppers
offers a highly professional service with added the benefit that your trip
also helps to support JewishGen's important work. I have always been
impressed by Joanna's attention to detail and concern for her clients
and would Shtetlschleppers them above all others.


Best regards,


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project
P.O.Box 97
Minsk
220074
Republic of Belarus
eejhp@voluntas.org
http://eejhp.netfirms.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Travel to Belarus #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:36:10 AM

Dear All,

I forgot to mention in my last post that JewishGen's Shtetlschlepper
programme offers an excellent service not just for Belarus but
all countries in Europe. In addition to making in-country arrangements
Joanna Fletcher of Shtetlschleppers can arrange flights and
international land transport: jfletcher@jewishgen.org. Shtelschleppers
offers a highly professional service with added the benefit that your trip
also helps to support JewishGen's important work. I have always been
impressed by Joanna's attention to detail and concern for her clients
and would Shtetlschleppers them above all others.


Best regards,


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project
P.O.Box 97
Minsk
220074
Republic of Belarus
eejhp@voluntas.org
http://eejhp.netfirms.com


Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

Steven Bloom <sbloom@...>
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".
A y-DNA test is, first of all, only available for males, because
females do not have Y-dna. Secondly, the implications are that this
only tests for another male who has the same father, or father's
father, or father's father's father, etc. This is why a y-dna test
is particularly good for testing men with a common surname..both the
genes and the name would have been carried down the strictly male
line.

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."
Right. same as above, except now it's mother's mother's mother, etc.
And because a male has mt-DNA >from his mother, a man can be tested
for this, but only to test for a cousin along the same maternal
line. So, theoretically, if you had a male cousin (but *not* a
descendant of that cousin) whose mother's mother's mother's mother
is your mother's mother's mother's mother, then you could confirm a
relationship.

Practically speaking, this is very difficult, because most people
don't know the maiden names of their ancestors that far back, and
its hard to establish a paper trail that established this genetic
line. Still, it's possible, and I've even thought of a case or two
where it might benefit me to use this test.

Does this mean to say that:
(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?
Strictly speaking, yes. However, you could use her brother as a
surrogate, so long as you were fairly sure the brother and sister
had the same parents.

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at all
if using the mitochondrial DNA test?
a descendant, no, as mt-dna would only be passed by females to a
male, but not past that male to the next generation. See above.

Steven D. Bloom
email: sbloom@email.hsc.edu


DNA Research #DNA Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

Steven Bloom <sbloom@...>
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".
A y-DNA test is, first of all, only available for males, because
females do not have Y-dna. Secondly, the implications are that this
only tests for another male who has the same father, or father's
father, or father's father's father, etc. This is why a y-dna test
is particularly good for testing men with a common surname..both the
genes and the name would have been carried down the strictly male
line.

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."
Right. same as above, except now it's mother's mother's mother, etc.
And because a male has mt-DNA >from his mother, a man can be tested
for this, but only to test for a cousin along the same maternal
line. So, theoretically, if you had a male cousin (but *not* a
descendant of that cousin) whose mother's mother's mother's mother
is your mother's mother's mother's mother, then you could confirm a
relationship.

Practically speaking, this is very difficult, because most people
don't know the maiden names of their ancestors that far back, and
its hard to establish a paper trail that established this genetic
line. Still, it's possible, and I've even thought of a case or two
where it might benefit me to use this test.

Does this mean to say that:
(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?
Strictly speaking, yes. However, you could use her brother as a
surrogate, so long as you were fairly sure the brother and sister
had the same parents.

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at all
if using the mitochondrial DNA test?
a descendant, no, as mt-dna would only be passed by females to a
male, but not past that male to the next generation. See above.

Steven D. Bloom
email: sbloom@email.hsc.edu


Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@...>
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote

1) The Y-DNA of two males will only match if they share a common
male ancestor in the male line. To put it another way, it will only
match if one male's father's father's father's father's...father is
the same as the other male's father's father's father's
father's...father.

2) Maternal DNA is similar on the maternal side but different in two
key ways:
a) It is much less specific. A woman may have two daughters who
each have daughters who each have duaghters, who each daughters etc,
and the daughters will all have the same mitochondrial DNA, *but*
just because two women have matching mitochondrial DNA doesn't mean
they are related.
b) Mitochondrial DNA is passed down, unchanged >from mothers to
daughters, just as Y-DNA is passed >from fathers to sons, *but*
mitochondrial DNA is also passed >from mother to son. The son does
not pass it on though. To put it another way, you will get a mtDNA
match if a man's mother's mother's mother's mother's...mother is the
same as the other man or woman's mother's mother's
mother's....mother.

A lot of people get very excited about finding a Mithochondrial DNA
match, when this is really not something special.

Robert Leiser
Glasgow


DNA Research #DNA RE: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@...>
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote

1) The Y-DNA of two males will only match if they share a common
male ancestor in the male line. To put it another way, it will only
match if one male's father's father's father's father's...father is
the same as the other male's father's father's father's
father's...father.

2) Maternal DNA is similar on the maternal side but different in two
key ways:
a) It is much less specific. A woman may have two daughters who
each have daughters who each have duaghters, who each daughters etc,
and the daughters will all have the same mitochondrial DNA, *but*
just because two women have matching mitochondrial DNA doesn't mean
they are related.
b) Mitochondrial DNA is passed down, unchanged >from mothers to
daughters, just as Y-DNA is passed >from fathers to sons, *but*
mitochondrial DNA is also passed >from mother to son. The son does
not pass it on though. To put it another way, you will get a mtDNA
match if a man's mother's mother's mother's mother's...mother is the
same as the other man or woman's mother's mother's
mother's....mother.

A lot of people get very excited about finding a Mithochondrial DNA
match, when this is really not something special.

Robert Leiser
Glasgow


Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

garymaher@...
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> asked

Would it be possible to clarify the following?

The quotes are >from either the JG or FTDNA websites:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."
Females do not have a Y-chromosome, so having a female in the line
of descent breaks the chain, so to speak. A Y-DNA test cannot
connect people through a female relative.

Mitochondrial DNA is nearly the opposite, except that males *do*
have mtDNA -- they get it >from their mother, and they do not pass
it on to their descendants. So if the males are at the ends of your
chain, you can see if they are related. Males anywhere else in the
chain will make the result meaningless.

You have to find cousins in the exclusively male line for the Y-DNA
test. You have to find cousins in the exclusively female line for
the mtDNA test, except that the test subjects themselves can be
male, as long as their mothers were related through females only.

Hope this is helpful!

Gary Maher
NJ, USA


Re: dna digest: October 11, 2005 #dna

lfarber@...
 

You understand this correctly. You basically lose the ability to trace
trhough DNA when sexes alternate in succeeding generations (male
offspring of females and vice versa).

Len Farber
Oak Park, Illinois

On Oct 12, 2005, at 1:00 AM, DNA Testing digest wrote:

DNA Digest for Tuesday, October 11, 2005.

1. Strictly Male vs. Female Lines

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines
From: "Moshe & Esther Davis" <davis@sefer.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:46:45 +0200
X-Message-Number: 1

Would it be possible to clarify the following?

The quotes are >from either the JG or FTDNA websites:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."

Does this mean to say that:

(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at all
if using the mitochondrial DNA test?

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


DNA Research #DNA Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

garymaher@...
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> asked

Would it be possible to clarify the following?

The quotes are >from either the JG or FTDNA websites:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."
Females do not have a Y-chromosome, so having a female in the line
of descent breaks the chain, so to speak. A Y-DNA test cannot
connect people through a female relative.

Mitochondrial DNA is nearly the opposite, except that males *do*
have mtDNA -- they get it >from their mother, and they do not pass
it on to their descendants. So if the males are at the ends of your
chain, you can see if they are related. Males anywhere else in the
chain will make the result meaningless.

You have to find cousins in the exclusively male line for the Y-DNA
test. You have to find cousins in the exclusively female line for
the mtDNA test, except that the test subjects themselves can be
male, as long as their mothers were related through females only.

Hope this is helpful!

Gary Maher
NJ, USA


DNA Research #DNA Re: dna digest: October 11, 2005 #dna

lfarber@...
 

You understand this correctly. You basically lose the ability to trace
trhough DNA when sexes alternate in succeeding generations (male
offspring of females and vice versa).

Len Farber
Oak Park, Illinois

On Oct 12, 2005, at 1:00 AM, DNA Testing digest wrote:

DNA Digest for Tuesday, October 11, 2005.

1. Strictly Male vs. Female Lines

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Subject: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines
From: "Moshe & Esther Davis" <davis@sefer.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:46:45 +0200
X-Message-Number: 1

Would it be possible to clarify the following?

The quotes are >from either the JG or FTDNA websites:

"Y-DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any
females along that line... A single test allows you to verify if 2
males are related".

"mtDNA: ...Note that the mtDNA strictly checks the maternal line,
with no influence of any males along that line."

Does this mean to say that:

(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at all
if using the mitochondrial DNA test?

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

DonnDevine@...
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote

Does this mean to say that:

(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at
all if using the mitochondrial DNA test?
Both these statements are correct.

The one possibly confusing element is that a male carries his
mother's mtDNA, although he can't pass it on to his own descendants.
A male's mtDNA sample would be used to determine as his mother's
female cousin, both related through all-maternal lines.

Donn Devine, CG, CGI
Coordinator, Baldwin Surname DNA Study
Wilmington DE

Study Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/donndevine/baldwin.html


DNA Research #DNA Re: Strictly Male vs. Female Lines #dna

DonnDevine@...
 

On 2005.10.11, Moshe Davis <davis@sefer.org> wrote

Does this mean to say that:

(1) a male descendant of, say, a female cousin, will not be
detected at all using the Y chromosome test?

(2) a descendant of, say, a male cousin, will not be detected at
all if using the mitochondrial DNA test?
Both these statements are correct.

The one possibly confusing element is that a male carries his
mother's mtDNA, although he can't pass it on to his own descendants.
A male's mtDNA sample would be used to determine as his mother's
female cousin, both related through all-maternal lines.

Donn Devine, CG, CGI
Coordinator, Baldwin Surname DNA Study
Wilmington DE

Study Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/donndevine/baldwin.html