One response to the search for older Polish town names is to look at the
18th century place names and their corresponding 19th and 20the century
place names on our list at the Jewish Family History-Grand Duchy of
Lithuania website, under 18th century districts and alphabetical list
of kahals. This list is incomplete. As we translate and transliterate
more GDL lists (which include all of Lithuania and Belarus, as well as
western Poland and Northern Ukraine) which you can find at
<www.jewishfamilyhistory.org>. Return to this website and the lists
frequently since we are in the process of using volunteers and professional
translators to identify 18th c places and their 19th c equivalent names.

If you are able to transliterate Old Polish names (which are written in
Latin letters), and wish to volunteer for a specific area, please contact
us. Also you may be able to help organize a group of researchers with
your common interest to help in this process.

David Hoffman
Jewish Family History Foundation
Grand Duchy Project

Subject: Variant spellings of town names
From: Avigdor&Laia <lbendov@netvision.net.il>

Henry Schwartz posed a question re: town names in Poland. This is exactly my
complaint that there needs to be a database of Eastern European towns with
variant spellings, coordinates, and Hebrew and/or Yiddish equivalents since
so many of us are trying to pin down towns of interest and get lost in the
poor transliterations which often are not uniform >from yizkorbook to
yizkorbook. The Dutch-Maikoff Soundex is useful, as in the search for
shtetls, but more can be done.

For example, KROCANKA can be Kruszenica or maybe Krosnica?? If we would
also try to at least give a geographic context, say East or West of Warsaw
about so many miles/km. that would help reduce the fuzziness in deciding
which alternative might be "correct".

Avigdor Ben-Dov

One response to the search for older Polish town names is to look at the
18th century place names and their corresponding 19th and 20the century
place names on our list at the Jewish Family History-Grand Duchy of
Lithuania website, under 18th century districts and alphabetical list
of kahals. This list is incomplete. As we translate and transliterate
more GDL lists (which include all of Lithuania and Belarus, as well as
western Poland and Northern Ukraine) which you can find at
<www.jewishfamilyhistory.org>. Return to this website and the lists
frequently since we are in the process of using volunteers and professional
translators to identify 18th c places and their 19th c equivalent names.

If you are able to transliterate Old Polish names (which are written in
Latin letters), and wish to volunteer for a specific area, please contact
us. Also you may be able to help organize a group of researchers with
your common interest to help in this process.

David Hoffman
Jewish Family History Foundation
Grand Duchy Project

Subject: Variant spellings of town names
From: Avigdor&Laia <lbendov@netvision.net.il>

Henry Schwartz posed a question re: town names in Poland. This is exactly my
complaint that there needs to be a database of Eastern European towns with
variant spellings, coordinates, and Hebrew and/or Yiddish equivalents since
so many of us are trying to pin down towns of interest and get lost in the
poor transliterations which often are not uniform >from yizkorbook to
yizkorbook. The Dutch-Maikoff Soundex is useful, as in the search for
shtetls, but more can be done.

For example, KROCANKA can be Kruszenica or maybe Krosnica?? If we would
also try to at least give a geographic context, say East or West of Warsaw
about so many miles/km. that would help reduce the fuzziness in deciding
which alternative might be "correct".

Avigdor Ben-Dov

Steve Morse's one-step website -- http://www.stevemorse.org -- also has
a one-step relationship calculator.

Stephanie Weiner
San Diego, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: Steve Morse's Relationship Calculator is located at:
http://www.stevemorse.org/relation/calculator.html

Steve Morse's one-step website -- http://www.stevemorse.org -- also has
a one-step relationship calculator.

Stephanie Weiner
San Diego, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: Steve Morse's Relationship Calculator is located at:
http://www.stevemorse.org/relation/calculator.html

http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/iss/gr/chart.htm
is the site at North Carolina's chart of cousin relationships.

Alfred M. Silberfeld
President Emeritus
JGS of Palm Beach County Inc.
Delray Beach, FL

http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/iss/gr/chart.htm
is the site at North Carolina's chart of cousin relationships.

Alfred M. Silberfeld
President Emeritus
JGS of Palm Beach County Inc.
Delray Beach, FL

If any correspondent would like me to share some information I (may) have
pertaining to artist Marc CHAGALL and his family, specifically, to his father's
side, please write to me privately. After receiving one abusive response
too many >from a small group of participants here, I no longer post to this
Digest.

Judy Segal
New York City

If any correspondent would like me to share some information I (may) have
pertaining to artist Marc CHAGALL and his family, specifically, to his father's
side, please write to me privately. After receiving one abusive response
too many >from a small group of participants here, I no longer post to this
Digest.

Judy Segal
New York City

Does anyone have any info on him?
He died in 1931 after practicing in the Scranton community for 22
years. Wife was Salli (Sali, Sura, Sarah)< and children were Lewis,
Rose, and Persi (Pauline).

Any info will be appreciated.

Howie Axelrod

MODERATOR NOTE: The topic is Rabbi A.G. "George" Zupnik in Scranton,
Pennsylvania. Due to differences in e-mail display among readers,
it's very helpful to repeat your main focus in both the subject line
and in the message body.

Does anyone have any info on him?
He died in 1931 after practicing in the Scranton community for 22
years. Wife was Salli (Sali, Sura, Sarah)< and children were Lewis,
Rose, and Persi (Pauline).

Any info will be appreciated.

Howie Axelrod

MODERATOR NOTE: The topic is Rabbi A.G. "George" Zupnik in Scranton,
Pennsylvania. Due to differences in e-mail display among readers,
it's very helpful to repeat your main focus in both the subject line
and in the message body.

Since people have been kind enough to do some cemetery footwork for
me. I am willing to do a good turn to help others out.

Howie Axelrod

MODERATOR NOTE: Howie is available in the Framingham, Massachusetts area.
Please reply privately to request help.

Since people have been kind enough to do some cemetery footwork for
me. I am willing to do a good turn to help others out.

Howie Axelrod

MODERATOR NOTE: Howie is available in the Framingham, Massachusetts area.
Please reply privately to request help.

In the Sunday 09-11-2005 on line issue of the Jerusalem Post is a story
about a online collection of map of Jerusalem

The below information is >from the 9-11-05 Jerusalem post.

http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/jer/html/story.html
The aricle can be found on the front page of the online edition under the
heading Plotting the capital bo Susan Goodman. http://www.jpost.com/

Or the full story on the below site.
http://tinyurl.com/9lx26

Richard Wenig
Show Low, Arizona

In the Sunday 09-11-2005 on line issue of the Jerusalem Post is a story
about a online collection of map of Jerusalem

The below information is >from the 9-11-05 Jerusalem post.

http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/jer/html/story.html
The aricle can be found on the front page of the online edition under the
heading Plotting the capital bo Susan Goodman. http://www.jpost.com/

Or the full story on the below site.
http://tinyurl.com/9lx26

Richard Wenig
Show Low, Arizona

Sarah Greenberg has her great-grandparents' December 1921 ketubah, but
cannot locate the marriage certificate. She also has a 1940 marriage record
for them. She's looking for a Brooklyn grooms' index for the 1920s.

The NYC Grooms Index database on italiangen.org covers Brooklyn (Kings
County). However, keep in mind that this database was created >from typed
existing indexes, not >from the documents themselves. These indexes are rife
with misspellings, so you have to be flexible.

Remember to use the "Starts with" option as well as "Sounds like". I used
Steve Morse' shortcut to the search engine (at www.stevemorse.org) to find
grooms whose first name began with "da", and surname began with "ra", and
who married in 1921 or 1922.

And, I find
Rackor Dave Dec 18 1921 Brooklyn 15891 (Cert.#)

But it's very odd that Ms. Greenberg also has a 1940 marriage record. Is it
an official NYC marriage certificate? I wonder if her great-grandparents
needed the marriage record in 1940 for some reason, and the clerks couldn't
find it then either.

Good luck in your research.
Monica Leonards
suburban Philadelphia

Sarah Greenberg has her great-grandparents' December 1921 ketubah, but
cannot locate the marriage certificate. She also has a 1940 marriage record
for them. She's looking for a Brooklyn grooms' index for the 1920s.

The NYC Grooms Index database on italiangen.org covers Brooklyn (Kings
County). However, keep in mind that this database was created >from typed
existing indexes, not >from the documents themselves. These indexes are rife
with misspellings, so you have to be flexible.

Remember to use the "Starts with" option as well as "Sounds like". I used
Steve Morse' shortcut to the search engine (at www.stevemorse.org) to find
grooms whose first name began with "da", and surname began with "ra", and
who married in 1921 or 1922.

And, I find
Rackor Dave Dec 18 1921 Brooklyn 15891 (Cert.#)

But it's very odd that Ms. Greenberg also has a 1940 marriage record. Is it
an official NYC marriage certificate? I wonder if her great-grandparents
needed the marriage record in 1940 for some reason, and the clerks couldn't
find it then either.

Good luck in your research.
Monica Leonards
suburban Philadelphia

If I decided to call myself 'John Doe', I would tell you to call me John.
Lots of entertainers do this - you see one name in Lights on Broadway, but
they are something else in 'real life'. Is this a name change? It used to
happen this simply in the US: someone would decide to be 'John Doe' and that
was their real name.

When Social Security started, that changed. You could have friends call you
John, but for anything legal, you had to get a court order or marriage or
divorce papers - something legal - before you could change your Social
Security Account, your driver's license, or your credit cards to your new
name. I know 'cause I've been there, and my divorce papers spelled my name
wrong, even though I spelled my name in court. Imagine, the court reporter
couldn't get the spelling of Bruckheimer right, so I had to get it fixed!

Sally Bruckheimer
Bridgewater, NJ

If I decided to call myself 'John Doe', I would tell you to call me John.
Lots of entertainers do this - you see one name in Lights on Broadway, but
they are something else in 'real life'. Is this a name change? It used to
happen this simply in the US: someone would decide to be 'John Doe' and that
was their real name.

When Social Security started, that changed. You could have friends call you
John, but for anything legal, you had to get a court order or marriage or
divorce papers - something legal - before you could change your Social
Security Account, your driver's license, or your credit cards to your new
name. I know 'cause I've been there, and my divorce papers spelled my name
wrong, even though I spelled my name in court. Imagine, the court reporter
couldn't get the spelling of Bruckheimer right, so I had to get it fixed!

Sally Bruckheimer
Bridgewater, NJ

My father remembers his father telling him, possibly in the 1930s, that
his uncle was the Chief Rabbi of Utrecht or Rotterdam but my dad didn't
know his name. >from the net I see that the Chief Rabbi was Justis
TAL so I want to research this possibility.

Dr. Yehuda Klausner wrote to me that there was a Chief Ribbi of
Holland, R'Moshe Tuvya TAL. He lived around 1895 in Hague. His son
R'Zadok Justus b'Moshe Tuvya became Chief Rabbi of Utrecht
in 1918 and Chief Rabbi of Holland in 1945. R'Zadok died 14 Kislev 5755
(1994). There is nothing more about them in "Otzar HaRabbanim" (H) by
N.Z.Friedman. There are several other TALs mentioned among others
another Zadok b'Shimon TAL, most probably related to the Chief Rabbis."

Does anyone know where the TAL family was >from originally or where I
can research their lineage further? The only family names I know >from
that side of my family are NATHAN, NATHANBERG, TOBIAS and possibly MACHTUS.
The families I know about were living in Courland, Latvia in the mid 1850s
through 1911 and possibly Lithuania before that.

Thank you,
Louise Hajdenberg
New York

My father remembers his father telling him, possibly in the 1930s, that
his uncle was the Chief Rabbi of Utrecht or Rotterdam but my dad didn't
know his name. >from the net I see that the Chief Rabbi was Justis
TAL so I want to research this possibility.

Dr. Yehuda Klausner wrote to me that there was a Chief Ribbi of
Holland, R'Moshe Tuvya TAL. He lived around 1895 in Hague. His son
R'Zadok Justus b'Moshe Tuvya became Chief Rabbi of Utrecht
in 1918 and Chief Rabbi of Holland in 1945. R'Zadok died 14 Kislev 5755
(1994). There is nothing more about them in "Otzar HaRabbanim" (H) by
N.Z.Friedman. There are several other TALs mentioned among others
another Zadok b'Shimon TAL, most probably related to the Chief Rabbis."

Does anyone know where the TAL family was >from originally or where I
can research their lineage further? The only family names I know >from
that side of my family are NATHAN, NATHANBERG, TOBIAS and possibly MACHTUS.
The families I know about were living in Courland, Latvia in the mid 1850s
through 1911 and possibly Lithuania before that.

Thank you,
Louise Hajdenberg
New York