Date   

Re: Universal backup #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Sally Bruckheimer" <sallybruc@yahoo.com> wrote

When I switched >from DOS to Windows and Word Perfect to Word, I 'lost' the
e-version of the index I made to a Jewish cemetery. This is much different than
backing up files, it is a matter of converting >from one progam in one operating
system and new both. Unless the programmers give you a 'conversion', you may end
up having to make paper copies and scanning them in to OCR... with today's
technology anyway. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I think the point of the 'Universal Program' is that they intend to make it
compatible with whatever comes up.

See http://www.lub.lu.se/epubl_2005_Lund/day.ppt#324,1,Long term preservation: an
overview (that is the whole name of the webpage)

Paper by Michael Day of the University of Bath, UK at the Joint Workshop on
Electronic Publishing, Lund, Sweden 15.4.05.

This was the full programme http://www.lub.lu.se/epubl_2005_Lund/.

http://www.interpares.org/book/interpares_book_g_part4us.pdf is the US
contribution to the InterPARES Project - The Long-term Preservation of Authentic
Electronic Records http://www.interpares.org/book/index.cfm.

This is the website of the New York State Archives
http://www.archives.nysed.gov/aindex.shtml which is very interesting. There are a
lot of FAQ's and certainly the employees there would be able to answer questions
that individuals have, assuming that they have the time.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)
***
MODERATOR NOTE: This thread is straying >from genealogy and veering into
computing. Only responses directly relating to genealogy will be posted to the
Discussion Group.


Druya and Smorgany Records #general

Irene K. <impromptus2002@...>
 

A few day ago Sabrina Rabinovich asked about Druya and Smorgany records. In the
Lithuanian State Historical archives there is a collection of Druya revision lists
of 1834, 1850-54 and also there are lists of Jewish men only dated 1874-75. The
revision list of 1816 does not have any Jewish family, additional Revision list of
1819 has a few Jewish families, the lists of 1827, 28 has quite a lot of names,
and the records of 18th century (in Polish) have no family names at all. Revision
list of 1850 was translated and published on Litvak web-side. There are Smorgany
revision lists of 1834, 1850 and additional lists of 1865 and 1894.

I have been working in this archives a few months ago and sent Miriam Weiner a
list of detailed file numbers in order to correct her web-side. I have also sent
the same information to JewishGen, unfortunately it was never published. If you
need more information, please, contact me privately.

Irene Kudish
Tel-Aviv
impromptus2002@yahoo.com
iresearcher@gmail.com
Researching Libkind/Lipkind - Belarus,Lithuania,
Glikin - Belarus


Civil Marriage after Religious One #general

Robert Dodell <RADodell@...>
 

Grandparents, who were religious, had a religious marriage in the shetl before
1913. 8 months after first child was born, they got (able to get?) a civil
marriage. Why would they care? 1914. Could it have something to do with WWI and
trying to avoid service. They did not emmigrate to the States till 1920, so I
doubt reason was that. Suggestions anyone?
Robert A. Dodell
RADodell@worldnet.att.net


Re: Orechow(ka), Tawrizesk: Geography lesson, please #ukraine

Margaret Mikulska
 

Judith Berlowitz wrote:

Dear Uk-Genners,
Two branches of my BER(E)LOWITZ family came to America
from Ukraine in 1906 and 1907, respectively. One
branch (Yankel B., 1906) listed "Orechowka" as town of
residence, while the other branch (David B.,
1907)listed "Orechow, Tawrizesk." Family tales place
Orechow (Orekhov) near Ekaterinoslav, while Google
searches show an Orechowka (Orekhovka) in Belarus and
another near Lugansk. Questions are:
1. Are these two interchangeable names for one town?
2. Are they two towns, one smaller (-ka) than the
other, perhaps across the Dnieper river >from each
other (another family tale)?
3. Where is Tawrizesk?
This website
http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/ukraine/locations/o/16.html
may help or confuse...
Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California
A few remarks that will, I hope, help you find the places:

1. Ekaterinoslav is now Dnipropetrovsk (Rus. Dnepropetrovsk).

2. "Tawrizesk." is probably not a town name, but an abbreviation for
"Tavritcheskaya gubernia" aka Crimea or Taurida Gubernia. "Tavrida"
is/was another Russian name for Crimea, >from the Greek name of the
peninsula. Ekaterinoslav was the capital city of the adjacent gubernia
(Ekaterinoslav gub.), so we are talking about the same region. (The "z"
in "Tawrizesk." is probably a mistranscription of the Russian character
for "tch", which can indeed be confused with the Latin character "z".)

3. Russian names such as Orekhov or Orekhovka became Orikhiv, Orikhivka
in Ukrainian. It may help to search for the current Ukrainian names.

4. I don't think the two names denote the same locality. Orekhovka
implies to me a village, while Orekhov, a town (although there are no
100% reliable rules when it comes to proper names). Incidentally, there
are bound to be many places with names derived >from the word
"orekh"/"orikh", which means "nut" -- usually hazelnut in this part of
the world --, because hazelnut is very common there. So it may be indeed
difficult to find the right place.

-Margaret Mikulska
silvagen@gmail.com
Warsaw, Poland / Princeton, NJ, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Universal backup #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Sally Bruckheimer" <sallybruc@yahoo.com> wrote

When I switched >from DOS to Windows and Word Perfect to Word, I 'lost' the
e-version of the index I made to a Jewish cemetery. This is much different than
backing up files, it is a matter of converting >from one progam in one operating
system and new both. Unless the programmers give you a 'conversion', you may end
up having to make paper copies and scanning them in to OCR... with today's
technology anyway. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I think the point of the 'Universal Program' is that they intend to make it
compatible with whatever comes up.

See http://www.lub.lu.se/epubl_2005_Lund/day.ppt#324,1,Long term preservation: an
overview (that is the whole name of the webpage)

Paper by Michael Day of the University of Bath, UK at the Joint Workshop on
Electronic Publishing, Lund, Sweden 15.4.05.

This was the full programme http://www.lub.lu.se/epubl_2005_Lund/.

http://www.interpares.org/book/interpares_book_g_part4us.pdf is the US
contribution to the InterPARES Project - The Long-term Preservation of Authentic
Electronic Records http://www.interpares.org/book/index.cfm.

This is the website of the New York State Archives
http://www.archives.nysed.gov/aindex.shtml which is very interesting. There are a
lot of FAQ's and certainly the employees there would be able to answer questions
that individuals have, assuming that they have the time.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)
***
MODERATOR NOTE: This thread is straying >from genealogy and veering into
computing. Only responses directly relating to genealogy will be posted to the
Discussion Group.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Druya and Smorgany Records #general

Irene K. <impromptus2002@...>
 

A few day ago Sabrina Rabinovich asked about Druya and Smorgany records. In the
Lithuanian State Historical archives there is a collection of Druya revision lists
of 1834, 1850-54 and also there are lists of Jewish men only dated 1874-75. The
revision list of 1816 does not have any Jewish family, additional Revision list of
1819 has a few Jewish families, the lists of 1827, 28 has quite a lot of names,
and the records of 18th century (in Polish) have no family names at all. Revision
list of 1850 was translated and published on Litvak web-side. There are Smorgany
revision lists of 1834, 1850 and additional lists of 1865 and 1894.

I have been working in this archives a few months ago and sent Miriam Weiner a
list of detailed file numbers in order to correct her web-side. I have also sent
the same information to JewishGen, unfortunately it was never published. If you
need more information, please, contact me privately.

Irene Kudish
Tel-Aviv
impromptus2002@yahoo.com
iresearcher@gmail.com
Researching Libkind/Lipkind - Belarus,Lithuania,
Glikin - Belarus


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Civil Marriage after Religious One #general

Robert Dodell <RADodell@...>
 

Grandparents, who were religious, had a religious marriage in the shetl before
1913. 8 months after first child was born, they got (able to get?) a civil
marriage. Why would they care? 1914. Could it have something to do with WWI and
trying to avoid service. They did not emmigrate to the States till 1920, so I
doubt reason was that. Suggestions anyone?
Robert A. Dodell
RADodell@worldnet.att.net


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Orechow(ka), Tawrizesk: Geography lesson, please #ukraine

Margaret Mikulska
 

Judith Berlowitz wrote:

Dear Uk-Genners,
Two branches of my BER(E)LOWITZ family came to America
from Ukraine in 1906 and 1907, respectively. One
branch (Yankel B., 1906) listed "Orechowka" as town of
residence, while the other branch (David B.,
1907)listed "Orechow, Tawrizesk." Family tales place
Orechow (Orekhov) near Ekaterinoslav, while Google
searches show an Orechowka (Orekhovka) in Belarus and
another near Lugansk. Questions are:
1. Are these two interchangeable names for one town?
2. Are they two towns, one smaller (-ka) than the
other, perhaps across the Dnieper river >from each
other (another family tale)?
3. Where is Tawrizesk?
This website
http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/ukraine/locations/o/16.html
may help or confuse...
Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California
A few remarks that will, I hope, help you find the places:

1. Ekaterinoslav is now Dnipropetrovsk (Rus. Dnepropetrovsk).

2. "Tawrizesk." is probably not a town name, but an abbreviation for
"Tavritcheskaya gubernia" aka Crimea or Taurida Gubernia. "Tavrida"
is/was another Russian name for Crimea, >from the Greek name of the
peninsula. Ekaterinoslav was the capital city of the adjacent gubernia
(Ekaterinoslav gub.), so we are talking about the same region. (The "z"
in "Tawrizesk." is probably a mistranscription of the Russian character
for "tch", which can indeed be confused with the Latin character "z".)

3. Russian names such as Orekhov or Orekhovka became Orikhiv, Orikhivka
in Ukrainian. It may help to search for the current Ukrainian names.

4. I don't think the two names denote the same locality. Orekhovka
implies to me a village, while Orekhov, a town (although there are no
100% reliable rules when it comes to proper names). Incidentally, there
are bound to be many places with names derived >from the word
"orekh"/"orikh", which means "nut" -- usually hazelnut in this part of
the world --, because hazelnut is very common there. So it may be indeed
difficult to find the right place.

-Margaret Mikulska
silvagen@gmail.com
Warsaw, Poland / Princeton, NJ, USA


Re: Polish Words #general

Margaret Mikulska
 

TE wrote:

I'm translating a marriage document >from Polish to English and have some
questions:

1. Does anyone know what the words podzbiucuz and Czapuiekiej mean?

One of the sentences in the document says: Levine podzbiucuz zprofesje
(occupation?) Czapuiekiej zyaicjych.
Both words are mistranscribed, particularly "podzbiucuz". Even with the context,
and knowing similar documents, I can't guess what it means in my native Polish.

"Profesja" is an obsolete word for occupation/profession.

Czapuiekiej: probably "czapnickiej"; "czapnik" -- a person making caps and other
headgear.

3. Can anyone tell me what these towns are?

Miescie (town) Piotrkowie Keyewodzkwie Kalizkbirn Obwochie piotrkoazbizn
przy (near) uoych Rodhicach wieszhaiacypu?
Piotrkow -- south-west of Warsaw, south of Lodz (closed to Lodz than Warsaw).
Known as Piotrkow Trybunalski. (There are several towns called Piotrkow in
Poland.)
Kalisz is west of Lodz. (I assume "Kalizkbirn" is actually "Kaliskim".)

Miesce (town) Opocznie mieszhaizaych (to live at?)
Yes, but mistranscribed.
Opoczno -- half way between Piotrkow and Radom.

zrodzony (be born?) przy (near?)
Yes, yes.

tychze Rochicach
Rodzicach -- parents

wiepzhouaca (to live at?) I wiolujan Shauie bzdacaz.
These words are really mistranscribed, I'm afraid. My guess is that it should be:

"mieszkajaca i w wolnym stanie bedaca" or "mieszkajacej i w wolnym stanie
bedacej". (Presumably, "i" is used instead of "j" -- old spelling.) This would be
"living and [being] unmarried". But it's only an educated guess.

3. The translation book says matzonkow means maiden name and married name.
Is that correct?
Absolutely not. First, it's "malzonkow" (not a "t", but a "crossed l").
It's the genitive and accusative case of the word "spouses" (in plural!). (What
translation book is that?)

> Should I assume that matzonkow means married name? when no other surname is
provided?

Example: Dawid i Lai Matzonkow Levin
Well, in this context it amounts to that. It means: Dawid and Lai spouses Levin.
But the word "malzonkowie" means "spouses".

I'm really sorry to be so blunt, but there are too many mistranscriptions here to
translate the remaining words. Could you post the Polish original on ViewMate?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

-Margaret Mikulska
silvagen@gmail.com
Warsaw, Poland / NJ, USA


Re: seeking Jay Karp #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Paul Silverstone" <paulh2@rcn.com> wrote:

Several years ago I corresponded with Jay Karp but the email address I have is
no good now. Will he please get in touch with me.

Re: Chrzan, Cherry, Lichtenstein
Try posting on the Karp family genealogy forum
http://genforum.genealogy.com/karp/.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Polish Words #general

Margaret Mikulska
 

TE wrote:

I'm translating a marriage document >from Polish to English and have some
questions:

1. Does anyone know what the words podzbiucuz and Czapuiekiej mean?

One of the sentences in the document says: Levine podzbiucuz zprofesje
(occupation?) Czapuiekiej zyaicjych.
Both words are mistranscribed, particularly "podzbiucuz". Even with the context,
and knowing similar documents, I can't guess what it means in my native Polish.

"Profesja" is an obsolete word for occupation/profession.

Czapuiekiej: probably "czapnickiej"; "czapnik" -- a person making caps and other
headgear.

3. Can anyone tell me what these towns are?

Miescie (town) Piotrkowie Keyewodzkwie Kalizkbirn Obwochie piotrkoazbizn
przy (near) uoych Rodhicach wieszhaiacypu?
Piotrkow -- south-west of Warsaw, south of Lodz (closed to Lodz than Warsaw).
Known as Piotrkow Trybunalski. (There are several towns called Piotrkow in
Poland.)
Kalisz is west of Lodz. (I assume "Kalizkbirn" is actually "Kaliskim".)

Miesce (town) Opocznie mieszhaizaych (to live at?)
Yes, but mistranscribed.
Opoczno -- half way between Piotrkow and Radom.

zrodzony (be born?) przy (near?)
Yes, yes.

tychze Rochicach
Rodzicach -- parents

wiepzhouaca (to live at?) I wiolujan Shauie bzdacaz.
These words are really mistranscribed, I'm afraid. My guess is that it should be:

"mieszkajaca i w wolnym stanie bedaca" or "mieszkajacej i w wolnym stanie
bedacej". (Presumably, "i" is used instead of "j" -- old spelling.) This would be
"living and [being] unmarried". But it's only an educated guess.

3. The translation book says matzonkow means maiden name and married name.
Is that correct?
Absolutely not. First, it's "malzonkow" (not a "t", but a "crossed l").
It's the genitive and accusative case of the word "spouses" (in plural!). (What
translation book is that?)

> Should I assume that matzonkow means married name? when no other surname is
provided?

Example: Dawid i Lai Matzonkow Levin
Well, in this context it amounts to that. It means: Dawid and Lai spouses Levin.
But the word "malzonkowie" means "spouses".

I'm really sorry to be so blunt, but there are too many mistranscriptions here to
translate the remaining words. Could you post the Polish original on ViewMate?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

-Margaret Mikulska
silvagen@gmail.com
Warsaw, Poland / NJ, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: seeking Jay Karp #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Paul Silverstone" <paulh2@rcn.com> wrote:

Several years ago I corresponded with Jay Karp but the email address I have is
no good now. Will he please get in touch with me.

Re: Chrzan, Cherry, Lichtenstein
Try posting on the Karp family genealogy forum
http://genforum.genealogy.com/karp/.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


Rygorod #ukraine

Arnold Chamove <ArnoldChamove@...>
 

My gg grandfather has on his death certificate that he was born in
Rygorod, but I cant find it anywhere. Assume that it is
misspelled. Anyone know of this place?
Cheers
Arnold

Arnold S Chamove
New Zealand


Searching :
GOLDSTEIN (Kepno to CA, USA 1851), GOLDBERG (NY to CA 1863),
ASHER/OSHER/OSZER (Posnan to CA 1864), ADLER/UDLER (Odesa to OR
1893), CHAIMOVITCH (Balta to OR 1890), SCHEREK/SHIREK (Posnan to CA
1860), FRIEDENTHAL (Kepno to CA 1870), FROHLICH, ELIAS (Posnan),
KOTTWITZ (Poznan).


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Rygorod #ukraine

Arnold Chamove <ArnoldChamove@...>
 

My gg grandfather has on his death certificate that he was born in
Rygorod, but I cant find it anywhere. Assume that it is
misspelled. Anyone know of this place?
Cheers
Arnold

Arnold S Chamove
New Zealand


Searching :
GOLDSTEIN (Kepno to CA, USA 1851), GOLDBERG (NY to CA 1863),
ASHER/OSHER/OSZER (Posnan to CA 1864), ADLER/UDLER (Odesa to OR
1893), CHAIMOVITCH (Balta to OR 1890), SCHEREK/SHIREK (Posnan to CA
1860), FRIEDENTHAL (Kepno to CA 1870), FROHLICH, ELIAS (Posnan),
KOTTWITZ (Poznan).


Polish gazetter #galicia

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

A large Polish gazetter of more than 2000 pages, "Skorowidz miejscowosci
Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej z oznaczeniem terytorjalnie im wlasciwych wladz i
urzedow oraz urzadzen komunikacyjnych," is now available on the Digital
Library of Wielkopolska's website
http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=12786. According to the
Digital Library website, this gazetter might date >from 1933.

To view it, click on "Content" on the left, below "Publication," and follow
the instructions (if presented) to download the DjVu plugin, if you are a
Windows or Linux user. If you are a Macintosh OS X (or higher) user,
instead download the DjVu plugin from
http://www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_download.php?detail=doc_djvu_plugin&pl
atform=macx. Clicking on "Content" subsequently will present you with an
option to "Browse" the publication or will take you directly to it.
(Internet Explorer recommended; some problems reported with FireFox.)

If you are knowledgeable about gazetters and believe it would be beneficial
to create a database >from this one, please contact me privately.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu
near Washington, D.C.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Polish gazetter #galicia

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

A large Polish gazetter of more than 2000 pages, "Skorowidz miejscowosci
Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej z oznaczeniem terytorjalnie im wlasciwych wladz i
urzedow oraz urzadzen komunikacyjnych," is now available on the Digital
Library of Wielkopolska's website
http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=12786. According to the
Digital Library website, this gazetter might date >from 1933.

To view it, click on "Content" on the left, below "Publication," and follow
the instructions (if presented) to download the DjVu plugin, if you are a
Windows or Linux user. If you are a Macintosh OS X (or higher) user,
instead download the DjVu plugin from
http://www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_download.php?detail=doc_djvu_plugin&pl
atform=macx. Clicking on "Content" subsequently will present you with an
option to "Browse" the publication or will take you directly to it.
(Internet Explorer recommended; some problems reported with FireFox.)

If you are knowledgeable about gazetters and believe it would be beneficial
to create a database >from this one, please contact me privately.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu
near Washington, D.C.


NYC Index of Grooms and Deaths #poland

Joseph Hirschfield
 

An database index of New York City grooms and New York City deaths has been
prepared by the Italian Genealogical Group . It is soundex-searchable at
the website below.

http://www.italiangen.org/default.htm

The years available are as follows for:

1891-1894 Manhattan deaths
1895-1897 Manhattan and Brooklyn deaths
1898-1936 Deaths All Boroughs

1895-1897 Kings County Grooms and Brides
1895-1897 Manhattan Grooms
1908-1936 NYC Grooms

Joe Hirschfield
Portage, MI
MINIEWITSKI, TOBIASZ-BELARUS
HIRSCHFELD, LINDBAUM, BUCHSBAUM- Skwarzawa, Glinyany, Sielec Bienkow GALICIA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: The scope of the JRI-Poland Discussion Group is Polish-
Jewish genealogical research. We are publishing this message because this
database of non-Polish records may contain information about readers'
immigrant ancestors. This is a one-time informational anouncement and not
the beginning of a thread.


JRI Poland #Poland NYC Index of Grooms and Deaths #poland

Joseph Hirschfield
 

An database index of New York City grooms and New York City deaths has been
prepared by the Italian Genealogical Group . It is soundex-searchable at
the website below.

http://www.italiangen.org/default.htm

The years available are as follows for:

1891-1894 Manhattan deaths
1895-1897 Manhattan and Brooklyn deaths
1898-1936 Deaths All Boroughs

1895-1897 Kings County Grooms and Brides
1895-1897 Manhattan Grooms
1908-1936 NYC Grooms

Joe Hirschfield
Portage, MI
MINIEWITSKI, TOBIASZ-BELARUS
HIRSCHFELD, LINDBAUM, BUCHSBAUM- Skwarzawa, Glinyany, Sielec Bienkow GALICIA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: The scope of the JRI-Poland Discussion Group is Polish-
Jewish genealogical research. We are publishing this message because this
database of non-Polish records may contain information about readers'
immigrant ancestors. This is a one-time informational anouncement and not
the beginning of a thread.


Signing OOO and Illiteracy #poland

Richard Cooper <ricooper@...>
 

I should like to put in my two penn'orth on the subject, if I may.
My great-grandparents Wolf BERNSTINE and Annie (Toibe Hinde)
MATELEVITCH had nine children. The first, Abraham
(whose certificate I don't have) was born in their home city
of Warszawa in 1880. The second, Rachel, in Paris, France in
1882 - no witness signature required. The third, Jacob, in
London in 1883: in the column marked 'Signature, description and
residence of informant' is written 'The mark of Dora BERNSTEIN,
Mother, 14 Broad Street', and to the left are three O's one on top
of another.

Later children had my great-grandfather as informant, apart from
Henry (London, 1888) and my grandfather Frank (Portsmouth, 1891)
which have 'X the mark of Annie BERNSTINE Mother'.

I deduce >from this that my great-grandmother, if not illiterate,
could not sign in English. When she first came to England she signed
as Jews were wont to do, with a little circle instead of a cross;
however, as the family became acculturated, she adopted English
ways (though the family stayed staunchly Jewish) and signed
with an X to fit in with the host nation.

After reading the posts, I do have a question: why three O's
to replace one cross? Is there a significance to that number?

Good luck in your research,
Richard Cooper
Gosport, UK
BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH and GODZINSKIJ >from Warsaw
LEZTER, RINENBERG & SALENDER >from Rzeszow & Kolbuszowa
MILLET & ENGELBERG >from Dabrowa Tarnowska, Zablocie & Lezajsk
ADLER & FINKELSTEIN >from Tarnopol
LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev
YAROSHEVSKY & SHAPOCHNIKOW >from Odessa


JRI Poland #Poland Signing OOO and Illiteracy #poland

Richard Cooper <ricooper@...>
 

I should like to put in my two penn'orth on the subject, if I may.
My great-grandparents Wolf BERNSTINE and Annie (Toibe Hinde)
MATELEVITCH had nine children. The first, Abraham
(whose certificate I don't have) was born in their home city
of Warszawa in 1880. The second, Rachel, in Paris, France in
1882 - no witness signature required. The third, Jacob, in
London in 1883: in the column marked 'Signature, description and
residence of informant' is written 'The mark of Dora BERNSTEIN,
Mother, 14 Broad Street', and to the left are three O's one on top
of another.

Later children had my great-grandfather as informant, apart from
Henry (London, 1888) and my grandfather Frank (Portsmouth, 1891)
which have 'X the mark of Annie BERNSTINE Mother'.

I deduce >from this that my great-grandmother, if not illiterate,
could not sign in English. When she first came to England she signed
as Jews were wont to do, with a little circle instead of a cross;
however, as the family became acculturated, she adopted English
ways (though the family stayed staunchly Jewish) and signed
with an X to fit in with the host nation.

After reading the posts, I do have a question: why three O's
to replace one cross? Is there a significance to that number?

Good luck in your research,
Richard Cooper
Gosport, UK
BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH and GODZINSKIJ >from Warsaw
LEZTER, RINENBERG & SALENDER >from Rzeszow & Kolbuszowa
MILLET & ENGELBERG >from Dabrowa Tarnowska, Zablocie & Lezajsk
ADLER & FINKELSTEIN >from Tarnopol
LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev
YAROSHEVSKY & SHAPOCHNIKOW >from Odessa