Date   

Re: First Jews in England #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:03:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
yisraelasper@comcast.net writes:

< There were Jews in England before the Norman conquest but after the
Norman conquest the Jews who were already in England found themselves culturally
and otherwise taken over by the French Jews. >

==I'm surprised by this. I grew up in England and was educated (many decades
ago) at Jewish academic high schools, but have ever before heard this. I
just checked the Enc Jud to get more information, and there learned that
England was among the last countries in medieval Europe where Jews settled.
There is mention of a possibility that "a small nucleus" of Jew may have lived
there under the Romans, and that in the Saxon period, "isolated Jews extended
their commercial activities as far as the British Isles". The EJ adds that the
"slender evidence" formerly adduced in support" of this belief "has no
validity."

==The Author of this section, incidentally, was British-Jewish
academician-historia Cecil Roth, an authority on British Jews if ever there was
one, who served as senior editor in Jerusalem of the Encyclopedia Judaica. There
is no on further information in the latest update (CD ROM edition) about original
Jewish settlement in England

==I'd really be excited to learn of recently discovered support for the
belief that there was a Jewish community in Enland before 1066.


Michael Bernet, New York,


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Jews in England #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:03:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
yisraelasper@comcast.net writes:

< There were Jews in England before the Norman conquest but after the
Norman conquest the Jews who were already in England found themselves culturally
and otherwise taken over by the French Jews. >

==I'm surprised by this. I grew up in England and was educated (many decades
ago) at Jewish academic high schools, but have ever before heard this. I
just checked the Enc Jud to get more information, and there learned that
England was among the last countries in medieval Europe where Jews settled.
There is mention of a possibility that "a small nucleus" of Jew may have lived
there under the Romans, and that in the Saxon period, "isolated Jews extended
their commercial activities as far as the British Isles". The EJ adds that the
"slender evidence" formerly adduced in support" of this belief "has no
validity."

==The Author of this section, incidentally, was British-Jewish
academician-historia Cecil Roth, an authority on British Jews if ever there was
one, who served as senior editor in Jerusalem of the Encyclopedia Judaica. There
is no on further information in the latest update (CD ROM edition) about original
Jewish settlement in England

==I'd really be excited to learn of recently discovered support for the
belief that there was a Jewish community in Enland before 1066.


Michael Bernet, New York,


Re: First Jews in England #general

amfox <amfox@...>
 

Although the Jews were indeed expelled, modern scholarship (as popularised
by Michael Wood in his book and recent TV series on William Shakespeare)
suggests that some Jews, both conversos and others, lingered on; and one of
them, Emilia Bassano, one of a family of Jewish musicians of Venetian
origin, has been suggested as one candidate for the Dark Lady of the Sonnets
and as a model for some aspects of the various Jewesses portrayed by
Shakespeare. Shakespeare seems to have known Jews. There is also a
suggestion that Shakespeare and Emilia were more than "just good friends" -
but the important point of genealogical concern is that it is likely that
England never became completely free of Jews.

Mervyn Fox
amfox@rogers.com

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they
hold very good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi
synagogue >from this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I
am sure they, too, have some records.
David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in
that the 1702 sephardim where not the first. Why do you think that before
the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no synagogues? Only because of lack
of evidence?

Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: First Jews in England #general

amfox <amfox@...>
 

Although the Jews were indeed expelled, modern scholarship (as popularised
by Michael Wood in his book and recent TV series on William Shakespeare)
suggests that some Jews, both conversos and others, lingered on; and one of
them, Emilia Bassano, one of a family of Jewish musicians of Venetian
origin, has been suggested as one candidate for the Dark Lady of the Sonnets
and as a model for some aspects of the various Jewesses portrayed by
Shakespeare. Shakespeare seems to have known Jews. There is also a
suggestion that Shakespeare and Emilia were more than "just good friends" -
but the important point of genealogical concern is that it is likely that
England never became completely free of Jews.

Mervyn Fox
amfox@rogers.com

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they
hold very good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi
synagogue >from this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I
am sure they, too, have some records.
David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in
that the 1702 sephardim where not the first. Why do you think that before
the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no synagogues? Only because of lack
of evidence?

Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


Re: First Jews in England #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net adds is own comments to a series of other comments
on hi topic (sorry, I can't figure ot the various authors

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.
Ervetjan commented:

< David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

< Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence? >

My comments:
==I missed out on that discussion on synagogues. But I do know this: the
Jews were brutally expelled >from England in 1290, and there was no Jewish
community there in 1395. Bevis Marks was built n 1701 but there hd been earlier
Sephardi synagogues and the first Ashkenazi synagogue in London was inaugurated
in 1690.

==These first English Jews came mostly >from northern France, and followed
northern French Jewish customs. Some came >from came >from Italy and Germany,
and some others fro Spain, Russia, and the Muslim countries. They had
communities in London, Lincoln, Winchester, York, Oxford, Norwich, Exeter,
Bristol, Gloucester, Bury St. Edmunds, Dunstable, King's Lynn, Stamford,
Northampton.
The King setup special registries for loans granted by Jews to Gentiles, in
every Jewish community--26 registries altogether!

==English Jews in the Middle Ages served essentially as bankers to the
nobility, and initially enjoyed the Royal Court' s protection. There were also
some outstanding Jewish scholars, peytanim and rabbis. An enormous font of
information is available about these Jews, both >from Jewish sources and >from the
meticulous record keeping of the English at that time.

Michael Bernet, New York,


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Jews in England #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net adds is own comments to a series of other comments
on hi topic (sorry, I can't figure ot the various authors

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.
Ervetjan commented:

< David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

< Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence? >

My comments:
==I missed out on that discussion on synagogues. But I do know this: the
Jews were brutally expelled >from England in 1290, and there was no Jewish
community there in 1395. Bevis Marks was built n 1701 but there hd been earlier
Sephardi synagogues and the first Ashkenazi synagogue in London was inaugurated
in 1690.

==These first English Jews came mostly >from northern France, and followed
northern French Jewish customs. Some came >from came >from Italy and Germany,
and some others fro Spain, Russia, and the Muslim countries. They had
communities in London, Lincoln, Winchester, York, Oxford, Norwich, Exeter,
Bristol, Gloucester, Bury St. Edmunds, Dunstable, King's Lynn, Stamford,
Northampton.
The King setup special registries for loans granted by Jews to Gentiles, in
every Jewish community--26 registries altogether!

==English Jews in the Middle Ages served essentially as bankers to the
nobility, and initially enjoyed the Royal Court' s protection. There were also
some outstanding Jewish scholars, peytanim and rabbis. An enormous font of
information is available about these Jews, both >from Jewish sources and >from the
meticulous record keeping of the English at that time.

Michael Bernet, New York,


how to continue? #scandinavia

anu ruokanen <anu.santra.alisa@...>
 

Hello,
We have been doing genealogy for a while and now it seems we
can´t go any further. We do believe we have Jewish roots, but
there is not such mention in records. However, Í´m searching na-
mes showed below. It would be great if someone could tell more
about them and what to do next. We have studied official records
in library and church archives.

BLOMSTER
RINGVALL
ROSNEL
KALIN
TUMULI
FRIMAN
ALM
STENIUS(STEEN.STENIA)
HOLMDAHL

Regards
Anu Ruokanen
Finland


Scandinavia SIG #Scandinavia how to continue? #scandinavia

anu ruokanen <anu.santra.alisa@...>
 

Hello,
We have been doing genealogy for a while and now it seems we
can´t go any further. We do believe we have Jewish roots, but
there is not such mention in records. However, Í´m searching na-
mes showed below. It would be great if someone could tell more
about them and what to do next. We have studied official records
in library and church archives.

BLOMSTER
RINGVALL
ROSNEL
KALIN
TUMULI
FRIMAN
ALM
STENIUS(STEEN.STENIA)
HOLMDAHL

Regards
Anu Ruokanen
Finland


Re: Visit to Polish State Archives, Warsaw #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

In addition to being able to find online what vital (metrical) records exist
for each town, E.L.A. (Ewidencje Ludnosci w Archiwaliach -- Evidences of
Population in Archival Collections) is now online at the State Archives of
Poland Web site [Just go to Google and type in 'State Archives of Poland"].

It is a database of all registers of population - books of residents, lists
of Jews, lists of dentists and doctors, members of unions -- you name it.
What is available for each town differs widely. The initial page is in
English.

Click on "database." Then use the pull-down and click on "Registers of
population." Write in the town you wish to research and choose the archive
you want >from the pull-down list or choose all archives.

The rest is in Polish and you will need a good Polish dictionary! Books of
Residents are called "Ksiegi Ludnosci Stalej" or "Ksiegi Meldunkowe." If
you click on the item, you get all the reference data - sygnatura
(reference #), zespol (fond), years it covers, what archives houses the
documents, etc.

If you find something of interest, you can write the Polish State Archives
(address is on Web site) and request someone to do the research. In 2004,
it was 70 zl initial fee, 55 zl an hour.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


JRI Poland #Poland RE: Visit to Polish State Archives, Warsaw #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

In addition to being able to find online what vital (metrical) records exist
for each town, E.L.A. (Ewidencje Ludnosci w Archiwaliach -- Evidences of
Population in Archival Collections) is now online at the State Archives of
Poland Web site [Just go to Google and type in 'State Archives of Poland"].

It is a database of all registers of population - books of residents, lists
of Jews, lists of dentists and doctors, members of unions -- you name it.
What is available for each town differs widely. The initial page is in
English.

Click on "database." Then use the pull-down and click on "Registers of
population." Write in the town you wish to research and choose the archive
you want >from the pull-down list or choose all archives.

The rest is in Polish and you will need a good Polish dictionary! Books of
Residents are called "Ksiegi Ludnosci Stalej" or "Ksiegi Meldunkowe." If
you click on the item, you get all the reference data - sygnatura
(reference #), zespol (fond), years it covers, what archives houses the
documents, etc.

If you find something of interest, you can write the Polish State Archives
(address is on Web site) and request someone to do the research. In 2004,
it was 70 zl initial fee, 55 zl an hour.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


the bialystok mamory book #poland

yael halamchi <m44w33@...>
 

Dear mark.

I want to thank u,ada and the all the others who did that great and important
work of bring the bialystok mamory book to the web when everyone will be able
to look in it thx u!!!!!!!!!!

another problem is the books is very old maybe its about time that the
bialystokers around the world will write new mamory book who suit more to
the young generation.

yours
yeal halacmi
isreal

resarch:strenfeld,finstion and boyarski >from bialystok


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland the bialystok mamory book #poland

yael halamchi <m44w33@...>
 

Dear mark.

I want to thank u,ada and the all the others who did that great and important
work of bring the bialystok mamory book to the web when everyone will be able
to look in it thx u!!!!!!!!!!

another problem is the books is very old maybe its about time that the
bialystokers around the world will write new mamory book who suit more to
the young generation.

yours
yeal halacmi
isreal

resarch:strenfeld,finstion and boyarski >from bialystok


Re: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online #poland

Brdbrain7@...
 

Mark-Thank you, Ada Holtzman, and all who worked so hard to make this
possible.

Robin B. Seidenberg

Researching:

BRENNER, ERLICHMAN-Kamenets Podolskiy area (Zinkov, Proskurov, etc.)

BOGOSLOWSKY-Stavisht, Kiev, Ekaterinoslav

WANIEWSKI, WYRZYKIEWICZ- Bialystok-Tykocin area (Lomza gubernia)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online
From: "Mark Halpern" <bialystoker@comcast.net>

Dear Fellow Bialystokers:

It is with great pleasure that we bring to Bialystokers around the world
access to _The Bialystoker Memorial Book_. The entire English language
part of the book (originally published in both Yiddish and English),
including all photos and captions, is being added to Ada Holtzman's
Zchor (Remembered) website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/yizkor1.htm

The objectives in making this book available to those >from around the
world with interest in Jewish Bialystok are:

1. To enable those interested to learn more about this city and its
Jewish residents >from the early days to the destruction of this beloved
city by the Nazi oppressors.

2. As a tribute to Jewish Bialystokers and others who perished during
the Shoah and those who survived and made a new life for themselves and
never forgot.

This Internet publication is a joint project of The Bialystoker Center
and Bikur Cholim in New York City, Ada Holtzman and her Zchor.org
website, and BIALYGen.

We are very grateful to The Bialystoker Center for their permission to
publish this important historical document on the Internet. We
especially thank Barry L. Winston, President; Alys Kremer Grossman,
Secretary; and Daniel Muskin, Administrator for their interest and
support.

And, of course, we owe so much gratitude to and affection for Ada
Holtzman, who has selflessly worked to create an unparalleled memorial
to our ancestral town of Bialystok.

Ada has already added over half of the Book to her website and will be
adding the remaining chapters in the near future. Please check back
periodically.

Mark Halpern
BIALYGen Coordinator


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Re: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online #poland

Brdbrain7@...
 

Mark-Thank you, Ada Holtzman, and all who worked so hard to make this
possible.

Robin B. Seidenberg

Researching:

BRENNER, ERLICHMAN-Kamenets Podolskiy area (Zinkov, Proskurov, etc.)

BOGOSLOWSKY-Stavisht, Kiev, Ekaterinoslav

WANIEWSKI, WYRZYKIEWICZ- Bialystok-Tykocin area (Lomza gubernia)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online
From: "Mark Halpern" <bialystoker@comcast.net>

Dear Fellow Bialystokers:

It is with great pleasure that we bring to Bialystokers around the world
access to _The Bialystoker Memorial Book_. The entire English language
part of the book (originally published in both Yiddish and English),
including all photos and captions, is being added to Ada Holtzman's
Zchor (Remembered) website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/yizkor1.htm

The objectives in making this book available to those >from around the
world with interest in Jewish Bialystok are:

1. To enable those interested to learn more about this city and its
Jewish residents >from the early days to the destruction of this beloved
city by the Nazi oppressors.

2. As a tribute to Jewish Bialystokers and others who perished during
the Shoah and those who survived and made a new life for themselves and
never forgot.

This Internet publication is a joint project of The Bialystoker Center
and Bikur Cholim in New York City, Ada Holtzman and her Zchor.org
website, and BIALYGen.

We are very grateful to The Bialystoker Center for their permission to
publish this important historical document on the Internet. We
especially thank Barry L. Winston, President; Alys Kremer Grossman,
Secretary; and Daniel Muskin, Administrator for their interest and
support.

And, of course, we owe so much gratitude to and affection for Ada
Holtzman, who has selflessly worked to create an unparalleled memorial
to our ancestral town of Bialystok.

Ada has already added over half of the Book to her website and will be
adding the remaining chapters in the near future. Please check back
periodically.

Mark Halpern
BIALYGen Coordinator


Help researching Komarno #general

Michael Goldrich <michaelg25@...>
 

I'm having difficulty identifying which Komarno my grandmother was >from
to begin to search for records. The family names are TAUB and
FRIEDMANN so these are too common for identification.
The only primary document I have is my grandmother's birth certificate
which appears to be written in Austrian.

Any suggestions for how to proceed?

Michael Goldrich


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help researching Komarno #general

Michael Goldrich <michaelg25@...>
 

I'm having difficulty identifying which Komarno my grandmother was >from
to begin to search for records. The family names are TAUB and
FRIEDMANN so these are too common for identification.
The only primary document I have is my grandmother's birth certificate
which appears to be written in Austrian.

Any suggestions for how to proceed?

Michael Goldrich


Yiddish Translation #general

rxbaum@...
 

Dear Genners:

I need the help of a Yiddish-speaker to translate a very brief Yiddish
message into English.
The Viewmate number is VM6488.
The address is http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Please send responses to RXBAUM@aol.com

Thank you,

Richie Baum


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish Translation #general

rxbaum@...
 

Dear Genners:

I need the help of a Yiddish-speaker to translate a very brief Yiddish
message into English.
The Viewmate number is VM6488.
The address is http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Please send responses to RXBAUM@aol.com

Thank you,

Richie Baum


Rashkin #general

Amy Tillem <amyleetee@...>
 

I'm trying to 'find' the parents of my maternal grandfather and/or
grandmother. Their names were Louis and Becky RASHKIN. I'm not sure of my
grandmother's maiden name. They were both born in Russia and lived in NYC
from approx. 1900-1945.
They had 7 children - Clara, Rosalind, Milton, Aaron, Esther, Shirley and
Gladys.

Does this ring any bells for anyone?
Thank-you.

Amy Tillem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Rashkin #general

Amy Tillem <amyleetee@...>
 

I'm trying to 'find' the parents of my maternal grandfather and/or
grandmother. Their names were Louis and Becky RASHKIN. I'm not sure of my
grandmother's maiden name. They were both born in Russia and lived in NYC
from approx. 1900-1945.
They had 7 children - Clara, Rosalind, Milton, Aaron, Esther, Shirley and
Gladys.

Does this ring any bells for anyone?
Thank-you.

Amy Tillem