In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net adds is own comments to a series of other comments
on hi topic (sorry, I can't figure ot the various authors

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

Ervetjan commented:

< David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

< Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence? >

My comments:
==I missed out on that discussion on synagogues. But I do know this: the
Jews were brutally expelled >from England in 1290, and there was no Jewish
community there in 1395. Bevis Marks was built n 1701 but there hd been earlier
Sephardi synagogues and the first Ashkenazi synagogue in London was inaugurated
in 1690.

==These first English Jews came mostly >from northern France, and followed
northern French Jewish customs. Some came >from came >from Italy and Germany,
and some others fro Spain, Russia, and the Muslim countries. They had
communities in London, Lincoln, Winchester, York, Oxford, Norwich, Exeter,
Bristol, Gloucester, Bury St. Edmunds, Dunstable, King's Lynn, Stamford,
Northampton.
The King setup special registries for loans granted by Jews to Gentiles, in
every Jewish community--26 registries altogether!

==English Jews in the Middle Ages served essentially as bankers to the
nobility, and initially enjoyed the Royal Court' s protection. There were also
some outstanding Jewish scholars, peytanim and rabbis. An enormous font of
information is available about these Jews, both >from Jewish sources and >from the
meticulous record keeping of the English at that time.

Michael Bernet, New York,

In a message dated 7/17/2005 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net adds is own comments to a series of other comments
on hi topic (sorry, I can't figure ot the various authors

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

Ervetjan commented:

< David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

< Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence? >

My comments:
==I missed out on that discussion on synagogues. But I do know this: the
Jews were brutally expelled >from England in 1290, and there was no Jewish
community there in 1395. Bevis Marks was built n 1701 but there hd been earlier
Sephardi synagogues and the first Ashkenazi synagogue in London was inaugurated
in 1690.

==These first English Jews came mostly >from northern France, and followed
northern French Jewish customs. Some came >from came >from Italy and Germany,
and some others fro Spain, Russia, and the Muslim countries. They had
communities in London, Lincoln, Winchester, York, Oxford, Norwich, Exeter,
Bristol, Gloucester, Bury St. Edmunds, Dunstable, King's Lynn, Stamford,
Northampton.
The King setup special registries for loans granted by Jews to Gentiles, in
every Jewish community--26 registries altogether!

==English Jews in the Middle Ages served essentially as bankers to the
nobility, and initially enjoyed the Royal Court' s protection. There were also
some outstanding Jewish scholars, peytanim and rabbis. An enormous font of
information is available about these Jews, both >from Jewish sources and >from the
meticulous record keeping of the English at that time.

Michael Bernet, New York,

Hello,
We have been doing genealogy for a while and now it seems we
can´t go any further. We do believe we have Jewish roots, but
there is not such mention in records. However, Í´m searching na-
mes showed below. It would be great if someone could tell more
about them and what to do next. We have studied official records
in library and church archives.

BLOMSTER
RINGVALL
ROSNEL
KALIN
TUMULI
FRIMAN
ALM
STENIUS(STEEN.STENIA)
HOLMDAHL

Regards
Anu Ruokanen
Finland

Hello,
We have been doing genealogy for a while and now it seems we
can´t go any further. We do believe we have Jewish roots, but
there is not such mention in records. However, Í´m searching na-
mes showed below. It would be great if someone could tell more
about them and what to do next. We have studied official records
in library and church archives.

BLOMSTER
RINGVALL
ROSNEL
KALIN
TUMULI
FRIMAN
ALM
STENIUS(STEEN.STENIA)
HOLMDAHL

Regards
Anu Ruokanen
Finland

In addition to being able to find online what vital (metrical) records exist
for each town, E.L.A. (Ewidencje Ludnosci w Archiwaliach -- Evidences of
Population in Archival Collections) is now online at the State Archives of
Poland Web site [Just go to Google and type in 'State Archives of Poland"].

It is a database of all registers of population - books of residents, lists
of Jews, lists of dentists and doctors, members of unions -- you name it.
What is available for each town differs widely. The initial page is in
English.

Click on "database." Then use the pull-down and click on "Registers of
population." Write in the town you wish to research and choose the archive
you want >from the pull-down list or choose all archives.

The rest is in Polish and you will need a good Polish dictionary! Books of
Residents are called "Ksiegi Ludnosci Stalej" or "Ksiegi Meldunkowe." If
you click on the item, you get all the reference data - sygnatura
(reference #), zespol (fond), years it covers, what archives houses the
documents, etc.

If you find something of interest, you can write the Polish State Archives
(address is on Web site) and request someone to do the research. In 2004,
it was 70 zl initial fee, 55 zl an hour.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA

In addition to being able to find online what vital (metrical) records exist
for each town, E.L.A. (Ewidencje Ludnosci w Archiwaliach -- Evidences of
Population in Archival Collections) is now online at the State Archives of
Poland Web site [Just go to Google and type in 'State Archives of Poland"].

It is a database of all registers of population - books of residents, lists
of Jews, lists of dentists and doctors, members of unions -- you name it.
What is available for each town differs widely. The initial page is in
English.

Click on "database." Then use the pull-down and click on "Registers of
population." Write in the town you wish to research and choose the archive
you want >from the pull-down list or choose all archives.

The rest is in Polish and you will need a good Polish dictionary! Books of
Residents are called "Ksiegi Ludnosci Stalej" or "Ksiegi Meldunkowe." If
you click on the item, you get all the reference data - sygnatura
(reference #), zespol (fond), years it covers, what archives houses the
documents, etc.

If you find something of interest, you can write the Polish State Archives
(address is on Web site) and request someone to do the research. In 2004,
it was 70 zl initial fee, 55 zl an hour.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA

Dear mark.

I want to thank u,ada and the all the others who did that great and important
work of bring the bialystok mamory book to the web when everyone will be able
to look in it thx u!!!!!!!!!!

another problem is the books is very old maybe its about time that the
bialystokers around the world will write new mamory book who suit more to
the young generation.

yours
yeal halacmi
isreal

resarch:strenfeld,finstion and boyarski >from bialystok

Dear mark.

I want to thank u,ada and the all the others who did that great and important
work of bring the bialystok mamory book to the web when everyone will be able
to look in it thx u!!!!!!!!!!

another problem is the books is very old maybe its about time that the
bialystokers around the world will write new mamory book who suit more to
the young generation.

yours
yeal halacmi
isreal

resarch:strenfeld,finstion and boyarski >from bialystok

Mark-Thank you, Ada Holtzman, and all who worked so hard to make this
possible.

Robin B. Seidenberg

Researching:

BRENNER, ERLICHMAN-Kamenets Podolskiy area (Zinkov, Proskurov, etc.)

BOGOSLOWSKY-Stavisht, Kiev, Ekaterinoslav

WANIEWSKI, WYRZYKIEWICZ- Bialystok-Tykocin area (Lomza gubernia)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online
From: "Mark Halpern" <bialystoker@comcast.net>

Dear Fellow Bialystokers:

It is with great pleasure that we bring to Bialystokers around the world
access to _The Bialystoker Memorial Book_. The entire English language
part of the book (originally published in both Yiddish and English),
including all photos and captions, is being added to Ada Holtzman's
Zchor (Remembered) website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/yizkor1.htm

The objectives in making this book available to those >from around the
world with interest in Jewish Bialystok are:

1. To enable those interested to learn more about this city and its
Jewish residents >from the early days to the destruction of this beloved
city by the Nazi oppressors.

2. As a tribute to Jewish Bialystokers and others who perished during
the Shoah and those who survived and made a new life for themselves and
never forgot.

This Internet publication is a joint project of The Bialystoker Center
and Bikur Cholim in New York City, Ada Holtzman and her Zchor.org
website, and BIALYGen.

We are very grateful to The Bialystoker Center for their permission to
publish this important historical document on the Internet. We
especially thank Barry L. Winston, President; Alys Kremer Grossman,
Secretary; and Daniel Muskin, Administrator for their interest and
support.

And, of course, we owe so much gratitude to and affection for Ada
Holtzman, who has selflessly worked to create an unparalleled memorial
to our ancestral town of Bialystok.

Ada has already added over half of the Book to her website and will be
adding the remaining chapters in the near future. Please check back
periodically.

Mark Halpern
BIALYGen Coordinator

Mark-Thank you, Ada Holtzman, and all who worked so hard to make this
possible.

Robin B. Seidenberg

Researching:

BRENNER, ERLICHMAN-Kamenets Podolskiy area (Zinkov, Proskurov, etc.)

BOGOSLOWSKY-Stavisht, Kiev, Ekaterinoslav

WANIEWSKI, WYRZYKIEWICZ- Bialystok-Tykocin area (Lomza gubernia)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The Bialystoker Memorial Book is Now Online
From: "Mark Halpern" <bialystoker@comcast.net>

Dear Fellow Bialystokers:

It is with great pleasure that we bring to Bialystokers around the world
access to _The Bialystoker Memorial Book_. The entire English language
part of the book (originally published in both Yiddish and English),
including all photos and captions, is being added to Ada Holtzman's
Zchor (Remembered) website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/yizkor1.htm

The objectives in making this book available to those >from around the
world with interest in Jewish Bialystok are:

1. To enable those interested to learn more about this city and its
Jewish residents >from the early days to the destruction of this beloved
city by the Nazi oppressors.

2. As a tribute to Jewish Bialystokers and others who perished during
the Shoah and those who survived and made a new life for themselves and
never forgot.

This Internet publication is a joint project of The Bialystoker Center
and Bikur Cholim in New York City, Ada Holtzman and her Zchor.org
website, and BIALYGen.

We are very grateful to The Bialystoker Center for their permission to
publish this important historical document on the Internet. We
especially thank Barry L. Winston, President; Alys Kremer Grossman,
Secretary; and Daniel Muskin, Administrator for their interest and
support.

And, of course, we owe so much gratitude to and affection for Ada
Holtzman, who has selflessly worked to create an unparalleled memorial
to our ancestral town of Bialystok.

Ada has already added over half of the Book to her website and will be
adding the remaining chapters in the near future. Please check back
periodically.

Mark Halpern
BIALYGen Coordinator

I'm having difficulty identifying which Komarno my grandmother was >from
to begin to search for records. The family names are TAUB and
FRIEDMANN so these are too common for identification.
The only primary document I have is my grandmother's birth certificate
which appears to be written in Austrian.

Any suggestions for how to proceed?

Michael Goldrich

I'm having difficulty identifying which Komarno my grandmother was >from
to begin to search for records. The family names are TAUB and
FRIEDMANN so these are too common for identification.
The only primary document I have is my grandmother's birth certificate
which appears to be written in Austrian.

Any suggestions for how to proceed?

Michael Goldrich

Dear Genners:

I need the help of a Yiddish-speaker to translate a very brief Yiddish
message into English.
The Viewmate number is VM6488.
The address is http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Please send responses to RXBAUM@aol.com

Thank you,

Richie Baum

Dear Genners:

I need the help of a Yiddish-speaker to translate a very brief Yiddish
message into English.
The Viewmate number is VM6488.
The address is http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Please send responses to RXBAUM@aol.com

Thank you,

Richie Baum

I'm trying to 'find' the parents of my maternal grandfather and/or
grandmother. Their names were Louis and Becky RASHKIN. I'm not sure of my
grandmother's maiden name. They were both born in Russia and lived in NYC

from approx. 1900-1945.

They had 7 children - Clara, Rosalind, Milton, Aaron, Esther, Shirley and
Gladys.

Does this ring any bells for anyone?
Thank-you.

Amy Tillem

I'm trying to 'find' the parents of my maternal grandfather and/or
grandmother. Their names were Louis and Becky RASHKIN. I'm not sure of my
grandmother's maiden name. They were both born in Russia and lived in NYC

from approx. 1900-1945.

They had 7 children - Clara, Rosalind, Milton, Aaron, Esther, Shirley and
Gladys.

Does this ring any bells for anyone?
Thank-you.

Amy Tillem

In a message dated 7/18/2005 12:09:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick Landau of London) cites:

The first Jewish families arrived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more than 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

snip

and responds with:

< The James Joyce Centre, Dublin publishes this article >from the Bloomsday
Centenary of the Irish Times about Jewish Dublin a hundred years ago.

< _http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489_
(http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489)

< Apparently when Leopold Bloom, the fictitious character of Ulysses, was born
in 1866 there were only a few hundred Jews in Dublin (see this article).>

==The thread was about the arrival of the first Jews in England--was it with
the Phoenicians, the Romans or the Norse in 1066 CE. I don't think the
arrival of Jews >from Litta in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century is
germane. Actually, there were Jews in Dublin in the early middle ages, and again
a significant Marrano community that set up a synagogue in 1660.

==On he other hand, that must have been quite a community. Isaac Herzog,
chief rabbi of Dublin was called in 1936 to become just the second chief rabbi
of Palestine -> Israel. Dublin Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits went on to
become chief rabbi of the British Empire, and. Robert Briscoe, a hero of the
Irish Revolution served as a member of the Irish parliament and later became
lord mayor of Dublin. Not bad for a community that never numbered more than
4000.

Michael Bernet, New York,

In a message dated 7/18/2005 12:09:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick Landau of London) cites:

The first Jewish families arrived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more than 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

snip

and responds with:

< The James Joyce Centre, Dublin publishes this article >from the Bloomsday
Centenary of the Irish Times about Jewish Dublin a hundred years ago.

< _http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489_
(http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489)

< Apparently when Leopold Bloom, the fictitious character of Ulysses, was born
in 1866 there were only a few hundred Jews in Dublin (see this article).>

==The thread was about the arrival of the first Jews in England--was it with
the Phoenicians, the Romans or the Norse in 1066 CE. I don't think the
arrival of Jews >from Litta in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century is
germane. Actually, there were Jews in Dublin in the early middle ages, and again
a significant Marrano community that set up a synagogue in 1660.

==On he other hand, that must have been quite a community. Isaac Herzog,
chief rabbi of Dublin was called in 1936 to become just the second chief rabbi
of Palestine -> Israel. Dublin Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits went on to
become chief rabbi of the British Empire, and. Robert Briscoe, a hero of the
Irish Revolution served as a member of the Irish parliament and later became
lord mayor of Dublin. Not bad for a community that never numbered more than
4000.

Michael Bernet, New York,

<Subject: Re: Town/City in Lomza Province
<From: Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@shaw.ca>
<Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:44:08 +0000 (GMT)
<X-Message-Number: 1

Snip
<But in 1775 and again in 1796 the new administration reforms have abolished
term 'provinces' and replaced them with the "Uyezds" (districts in English),
which were subdivided into smaller units called volosts, and this system
existed with some modification till 1929, when Guberniyas were replaced with
Oblast's, Okrugs and Rayons.>

This information is mostly correct, but the following statement is no longer
true:

<Thus, even in 18th century Russia existed sedition into 'provinces' it has
no significant relevance to the Jewish Genealogy, since our records do not go
so far, as they have been established only in the 19th century.>

This is no longer true. The Jewish Family History Foundation's Grand Duchy
of Lithuania-Kingdom of Poland Project has been acquiring and
transliterating/translating census records >from the 18th century - and even
census records for some towns going back to 1600 - 1700. Learn about our
project at www.jewishfamilyhistory.org.

As you will see we have completed acquisition of more than 100,000 records
for what later became Lithuania, Belarus, eastern Poland and Northernmost
Ukraine so far. While the quality of records and the amount of information they
provide differs and is generally less than that available in 19th century
records, many Jewish genealogical researchers have been able to trace their
families back >from early 19th century records, where their families had surnames,
to the 1784 census, and earlier, where they did not yet use surnames. Using
these records they have successfully traced their families back to the early
1700s and some even further back. A few years ago we never dreamed that this
would be possible.

Consult the list of districts and alphabetical list of towns to see what is
in our collection so far. This list grows steadily as records are translated
and the many rural taverns and inns where 40% of the Jews lived in the 17th
and 18th centuries, are identified and added to the list. Usually only a
single Jewish family lived in a tavern, on a farm, ran a mill, etc. Later these
small isolated settlements grew into shtetls and sometimes large towns.

The translations (and even the images of the original records) will appear
on the website, and donated to JewishGen and SIGs, beginning in the near
future. We are beginning the process of linking records for shtetl research
groups in the LitvakSIG, Belarus SIG and JRI-Poland to these 18th century
records.

We welcome you participation in our project, particularly if you are able
and interested in transliterating Old Polish names (which are in basic Latin
script characters) and translating Polish text introductory heading and
subheadings, and Hebrew signatures at the end of each kahal census.

David Hoffman
President
Jewish Family History Foundation
www.jewishfamilyhistory.org
GDLProject@aol.com

<Subject: Re: Town/City in Lomza Province
<From: Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@shaw.ca>
<Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:44:08 +0000 (GMT)
<X-Message-Number: 1

Snip
<But in 1775 and again in 1796 the new administration reforms have abolished
term 'provinces' and replaced them with the "Uyezds" (districts in English),
which were subdivided into smaller units called volosts, and this system
existed with some modification till 1929, when Guberniyas were replaced with
Oblast's, Okrugs and Rayons.>

This information is mostly correct, but the following statement is no longer
true:

<Thus, even in 18th century Russia existed sedition into 'provinces' it has
no significant relevance to the Jewish Genealogy, since our records do not go
so far, as they have been established only in the 19th century.>

This is no longer true. The Jewish Family History Foundation's Grand Duchy
of Lithuania-Kingdom of Poland Project has been acquiring and
transliterating/translating census records >from the 18th century - and even
census records for some towns going back to 1600 - 1700. Learn about our
project at www.jewishfamilyhistory.org.

As you will see we have completed acquisition of more than 100,000 records
for what later became Lithuania, Belarus, eastern Poland and Northernmost
Ukraine so far. While the quality of records and the amount of information they
provide differs and is generally less than that available in 19th century
records, many Jewish genealogical researchers have been able to trace their
families back >from early 19th century records, where their families had surnames,
to the 1784 census, and earlier, where they did not yet use surnames. Using
these records they have successfully traced their families back to the early
1700s and some even further back. A few years ago we never dreamed that this
would be possible.

Consult the list of districts and alphabetical list of towns to see what is
in our collection so far. This list grows steadily as records are translated
and the many rural taverns and inns where 40% of the Jews lived in the 17th
and 18th centuries, are identified and added to the list. Usually only a
single Jewish family lived in a tavern, on a farm, ran a mill, etc. Later these
small isolated settlements grew into shtetls and sometimes large towns.

The translations (and even the images of the original records) will appear
on the website, and donated to JewishGen and SIGs, beginning in the near
future. We are beginning the process of linking records for shtetl research
groups in the LitvakSIG, Belarus SIG and JRI-Poland to these 18th century
records.

We welcome you participation in our project, particularly if you are able
and interested in transliterating Old Polish names (which are in basic Latin
script characters) and translating Polish text introductory heading and
subheadings, and Hebrew signatures at the end of each kahal census.

David Hoffman
President
Jewish Family History Foundation
www.jewishfamilyhistory.org
GDLProject@aol.com