In a message dated 7/18/2005 12:09:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick Landau of London) cites:

The first Jewish families arrived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more than 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

snip

and responds with:

< The James Joyce Centre, Dublin publishes this article >from the Bloomsday
Centenary of the Irish Times about Jewish Dublin a hundred years ago.

< _http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489_
(http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489)

< Apparently when Leopold Bloom, the fictitious character of Ulysses, was born
in 1866 there were only a few hundred Jews in Dublin (see this article).>

==The thread was about the arrival of the first Jews in England--was it with
the Phoenicians, the Romans or the Norse in 1066 CE. I don't think the
arrival of Jews >from Litta in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century is
germane. Actually, there were Jews in Dublin in the early middle ages, and again
a significant Marrano community that set up a synagogue in 1660.

==On he other hand, that must have been quite a community. Isaac Herzog,
chief rabbi of Dublin was called in 1936 to become just the second chief rabbi
of Palestine -> Israel. Dublin Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits went on to
become chief rabbi of the British Empire, and. Robert Briscoe, a hero of the
Irish Revolution served as a member of the Irish parliament and later became
lord mayor of Dublin. Not bad for a community that never numbered more than
4000.

Michael Bernet, New York,

In a message dated 7/18/2005 12:09:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick Landau of London) cites:

The first Jewish families arrived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more than 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.

snip

and responds with:

< The James Joyce Centre, Dublin publishes this article >from the Bloomsday
Centenary of the Irish Times about Jewish Dublin a hundred years ago.

< _http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489_
(http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/templates/text_contents.aspx?page_id=489)

< Apparently when Leopold Bloom, the fictitious character of Ulysses, was born
in 1866 there were only a few hundred Jews in Dublin (see this article).>

==The thread was about the arrival of the first Jews in England--was it with
the Phoenicians, the Romans or the Norse in 1066 CE. I don't think the
arrival of Jews >from Litta in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century is
germane. Actually, there were Jews in Dublin in the early middle ages, and again
a significant Marrano community that set up a synagogue in 1660.

==On he other hand, that must have been quite a community. Isaac Herzog,
chief rabbi of Dublin was called in 1936 to become just the second chief rabbi
of Palestine -> Israel. Dublin Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits went on to
become chief rabbi of the British Empire, and. Robert Briscoe, a hero of the
Irish Revolution served as a member of the Irish parliament and later became
lord mayor of Dublin. Not bad for a community that never numbered more than
4000.

Michael Bernet, New York,

<Subject: Re: Town/City in Lomza Province
<From: Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@shaw.ca>
<Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:44:08 +0000 (GMT)
<X-Message-Number: 1

Snip
<But in 1775 and again in 1796 the new administration reforms have abolished
term 'provinces' and replaced them with the "Uyezds" (districts in English),
which were subdivided into smaller units called volosts, and this system
existed with some modification till 1929, when Guberniyas were replaced with
Oblast's, Okrugs and Rayons.>

This information is mostly correct, but the following statement is no longer
true:

<Thus, even in 18th century Russia existed sedition into 'provinces' it has
no significant relevance to the Jewish Genealogy, since our records do not go
so far, as they have been established only in the 19th century.>

This is no longer true. The Jewish Family History Foundation's Grand Duchy
of Lithuania-Kingdom of Poland Project has been acquiring and
transliterating/translating census records >from the 18th century - and even
census records for some towns going back to 1600 - 1700. Learn about our
project at www.jewishfamilyhistory.org.

As you will see we have completed acquisition of more than 100,000 records
for what later became Lithuania, Belarus, eastern Poland and Northernmost
Ukraine so far. While the quality of records and the amount of information they
provide differs and is generally less than that available in 19th century
records, many Jewish genealogical researchers have been able to trace their
families back >from early 19th century records, where their families had surnames,
to the 1784 census, and earlier, where they did not yet use surnames. Using
these records they have successfully traced their families back to the early
1700s and some even further back. A few years ago we never dreamed that this
would be possible.

Consult the list of districts and alphabetical list of towns to see what is
in our collection so far. This list grows steadily as records are translated
and the many rural taverns and inns where 40% of the Jews lived in the 17th
and 18th centuries, are identified and added to the list. Usually only a
single Jewish family lived in a tavern, on a farm, ran a mill, etc. Later these
small isolated settlements grew into shtetls and sometimes large towns.

The translations (and even the images of the original records) will appear
on the website, and donated to JewishGen and SIGs, beginning in the near
future. We are beginning the process of linking records for shtetl research
groups in the LitvakSIG, Belarus SIG and JRI-Poland to these 18th century
records.

We welcome you participation in our project, particularly if you are able
and interested in transliterating Old Polish names (which are in basic Latin
script characters) and translating Polish text introductory heading and
subheadings, and Hebrew signatures at the end of each kahal census.

David Hoffman
President
Jewish Family History Foundation
www.jewishfamilyhistory.org
GDLProject@aol.com

<Subject: Re: Town/City in Lomza Province
<From: Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@shaw.ca>
<Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:44:08 +0000 (GMT)
<X-Message-Number: 1

Snip
<But in 1775 and again in 1796 the new administration reforms have abolished
term 'provinces' and replaced them with the "Uyezds" (districts in English),
which were subdivided into smaller units called volosts, and this system
existed with some modification till 1929, when Guberniyas were replaced with
Oblast's, Okrugs and Rayons.>

This information is mostly correct, but the following statement is no longer
true:

<Thus, even in 18th century Russia existed sedition into 'provinces' it has
no significant relevance to the Jewish Genealogy, since our records do not go
so far, as they have been established only in the 19th century.>

This is no longer true. The Jewish Family History Foundation's Grand Duchy
of Lithuania-Kingdom of Poland Project has been acquiring and
transliterating/translating census records >from the 18th century - and even
census records for some towns going back to 1600 - 1700. Learn about our
project at www.jewishfamilyhistory.org.

As you will see we have completed acquisition of more than 100,000 records
for what later became Lithuania, Belarus, eastern Poland and Northernmost
Ukraine so far. While the quality of records and the amount of information they
provide differs and is generally less than that available in 19th century
records, many Jewish genealogical researchers have been able to trace their
families back >from early 19th century records, where their families had surnames,
to the 1784 census, and earlier, where they did not yet use surnames. Using
these records they have successfully traced their families back to the early
1700s and some even further back. A few years ago we never dreamed that this
would be possible.

Consult the list of districts and alphabetical list of towns to see what is
in our collection so far. This list grows steadily as records are translated
and the many rural taverns and inns where 40% of the Jews lived in the 17th
and 18th centuries, are identified and added to the list. Usually only a
single Jewish family lived in a tavern, on a farm, ran a mill, etc. Later these
small isolated settlements grew into shtetls and sometimes large towns.

The translations (and even the images of the original records) will appear
on the website, and donated to JewishGen and SIGs, beginning in the near
future. We are beginning the process of linking records for shtetl research
groups in the LitvakSIG, Belarus SIG and JRI-Poland to these 18th century
records.

We welcome you participation in our project, particularly if you are able
and interested in transliterating Old Polish names (which are in basic Latin
script characters) and translating Polish text introductory heading and
subheadings, and Hebrew signatures at the end of each kahal census.

David Hoffman
President
Jewish Family History Foundation
www.jewishfamilyhistory.org
GDLProject@aol.com

"Sandy Berg" <sberg@kc.rr.com> wrote in message

I recently found the death certificate of a great-uncle stating the he and
his parents were born in Warsaw "Russia". They were all born in the mid
to late l800's. I assume that Warsaw was considered part of Russia at
that time, but do you think that this meant the "city" Warsaw, that we
know it today, or were Jews not allowed to live in the city? Could this
have really meant an area outside the city like a gobernia? Also, my
grandfather's death certificate stated he was born in Sidlovia, Latvia. I
have since been told that the modern name is Siluva, Lithuania. Is it
possible that the town was once part of Latvia or was that an error?

This was dealt with recently in response to another similar question ie
Warsaw, Russia.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)

MODERATOR NOTE: The previous thread >from June can be found in the archives at
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop with a search
for "Warsaw Russia."

"Sandy Berg" <sberg@kc.rr.com> wrote in message

I recently found the death certificate of a great-uncle stating the he and
his parents were born in Warsaw "Russia". They were all born in the mid
to late l800's. I assume that Warsaw was considered part of Russia at
that time, but do you think that this meant the "city" Warsaw, that we
know it today, or were Jews not allowed to live in the city? Could this
have really meant an area outside the city like a gobernia? Also, my
grandfather's death certificate stated he was born in Sidlovia, Latvia. I
have since been told that the modern name is Siluva, Lithuania. Is it
possible that the town was once part of Latvia or was that an error?

This was dealt with recently in response to another similar question ie
Warsaw, Russia.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)

MODERATOR NOTE: The previous thread >from June can be found in the archives at
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop with a search
for "Warsaw Russia."

Hans Nord schrieb:

Whatever happened to Alex Calzareth and the Aufbau indexing project?
I was working on that project until last April. I haven' t heard >from
him for several months and I can't find a working e-mail address for him.

I also did a whole year for the project a year or two ago and haven't
heard of any results.

Fritz Neubauer North Germany <fritz.neubauer@uni-bielefeld.de>

Hans Nord schrieb:

Whatever happened to Alex Calzareth and the Aufbau indexing project?
I was working on that project until last April. I haven' t heard >from
him for several months and I can't find a working e-mail address for him.

I also did a whole year for the project a year or two ago and haven't
heard of any results.

Fritz Neubauer North Germany <fritz.neubauer@uni-bielefeld.de>

I recently found the death certificate of a great-uncle stating the he and
his parents were born in Warsaw "Russia". They were all born in the mid to
late l800's. I assume that Warsaw was considered part of Russia at that
time, but do you think that this meant the "city" Warsaw, that we know it
today, or were Jews not allowed to live in the city? Could this have
really meant an area outside the city like a gobernia? Also, my
grandfather's death certificate stated he was born in Sidlovia, Latvia. I
have since been told that the modern name is Siluva, Lithuania. Is it
possible that the town was once part of Latvia or was that an error?

Sandra Rubin Berg (sberg@kc.rr.com)
Searching for RAYMOND AND GOLDSTEIN (Warsaw), SHAPIRO (Siluva)

I recently found the death certificate of a great-uncle stating the he and
his parents were born in Warsaw "Russia". They were all born in the mid to
late l800's. I assume that Warsaw was considered part of Russia at that
time, but do you think that this meant the "city" Warsaw, that we know it
today, or were Jews not allowed to live in the city? Could this have
really meant an area outside the city like a gobernia? Also, my
grandfather's death certificate stated he was born in Sidlovia, Latvia. I
have since been told that the modern name is Siluva, Lithuania. Is it
possible that the town was once part of Latvia or was that an error?

Sandra Rubin Berg (sberg@kc.rr.com)
Searching for RAYMOND AND GOLDSTEIN (Warsaw), SHAPIRO (Siluva)

In response to Shari Kantrows posting about the town
of Bursztyn.

I have seen this town on many maps, and it is located
near my ancestrial town. I have always assumed that my
ancestors came fromn this town as I have both
"BERNSTEIN" & "BARANSHTEYN" to be found in my tree.

Does anyone have any research regarding this.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

Baranshteyn: >from Labun/Polonnoye, Ukraine
Bernstein : >from Pultusk, Poland

In response to Shari Kantrows posting about the town
of Bursztyn.

I have seen this town on many maps, and it is located
near my ancestrial town. I have always assumed that my
ancestors came fromn this town as I have both
"BERNSTEIN" & "BARANSHTEYN" to be found in my tree.

Does anyone have any research regarding this.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

Baranshteyn: >from Labun/Polonnoye, Ukraine
Bernstein : >from Pultusk, Poland

Hello,

Below is a translated excerpt >from my great-great-grandmother's
Bible (Rosa CITRON JOSEPH, died 1909 at 102). I've been looking for
other information concerning the people mentioned, especially Rabbi
Mordechai of Praga, my ggggg-grandfather, without success. If any
of you have information concerning any of the people named below
(I know who the MaHaRaL of Prague and the SHeLaH are), or the
congregations of Praga, or Shadludava and Vladva in the late 18th
or early 19th century, please respond privately to me.

Thanks very much.

Irene Greenwald Plotzker
Wilmington, Delaware
Irene@dol.net

"In memory of the death of my lord and teacher, my grandfather the
famous Gaon in the chain of noble descent the righteous crowned in
his deeds his glorious name being Mordechai, may his memory be for
blessing. Son of the great Gaon, the head of the Beth Din in the
congregation Vladva and Shadludava... At the end of his days he was
the head of the congregation Praga, near the royal city of Warsaw
and his descent is of Reb Loew of Prague. On his mother's side he
descended of the author of the SheLaH, of the family of HOROWITZ the
Levite. The lights were darkened on the Sabbath in the congregation
of Praga on Rosh Hodesh Iyar in the year 5596 and he was buried on
Sunday of that month [description of large funeral attendance]"

Descendants of Rabbi Mordechai:
Isaac Itzik Ha-Cohen, d. 1812, Koval, Poland, m. Mirel,
d. 1825, Golb, Prussia.
Michael JOSEPH, m. Hayyah*.
Louis (Gedaliah) JOSEPH (also used last
name "LEWIS" of adoptive family), b. 1822, Poland, d. 1875,
Titusville, PA, m. Rosa CITRON, b. Kawul, Poland 1807, d.
Bradford, PA 1909.

*Hayyah was the daughter of Jacob KOPPEL (d. 1825 in
Gluc Goston, Poland, was son of Eleazar Lazar) and Ribak (d.
1831 in Goston, Poland, daughter of Menachem Nohem Ha-Cohen,
who died in Gemblin, Poland).

[MODERATOR'S NOTES: 1) Please respond privately as requested by
the poster. 2) Please note that the Praga referred by the poster
is in Poland, across the Vistula River >from Warszawa.]

Hello,

Below is a translated excerpt >from my great-great-grandmother's
Bible (Rosa CITRON JOSEPH, died 1909 at 102). I've been looking for
other information concerning the people mentioned, especially Rabbi
Mordechai of Praga, my ggggg-grandfather, without success. If any
of you have information concerning any of the people named below
(I know who the MaHaRaL of Prague and the SHeLaH are), or the
congregations of Praga, or Shadludava and Vladva in the late 18th
or early 19th century, please respond privately to me.

Thanks very much.

Irene Greenwald Plotzker
Wilmington, Delaware
Irene@dol.net

"In memory of the death of my lord and teacher, my grandfather the
famous Gaon in the chain of noble descent the righteous crowned in
his deeds his glorious name being Mordechai, may his memory be for
blessing. Son of the great Gaon, the head of the Beth Din in the
congregation Vladva and Shadludava... At the end of his days he was
the head of the congregation Praga, near the royal city of Warsaw
and his descent is of Reb Loew of Prague. On his mother's side he
descended of the author of the SheLaH, of the family of HOROWITZ the
Levite. The lights were darkened on the Sabbath in the congregation
of Praga on Rosh Hodesh Iyar in the year 5596 and he was buried on
Sunday of that month [description of large funeral attendance]"

Descendants of Rabbi Mordechai:
Isaac Itzik Ha-Cohen, d. 1812, Koval, Poland, m. Mirel,
d. 1825, Golb, Prussia.
Michael JOSEPH, m. Hayyah*.
Louis (Gedaliah) JOSEPH (also used last
name "LEWIS" of adoptive family), b. 1822, Poland, d. 1875,
Titusville, PA, m. Rosa CITRON, b. Kawul, Poland 1807, d.
Bradford, PA 1909.

*Hayyah was the daughter of Jacob KOPPEL (d. 1825 in
Gluc Goston, Poland, was son of Eleazar Lazar) and Ribak (d.
1831 in Goston, Poland, daughter of Menachem Nohem Ha-Cohen,
who died in Gemblin, Poland).

[MODERATOR'S NOTES: 1) Please respond privately as requested by
the poster. 2) Please note that the Praga referred by the poster
is in Poland, across the Vistula River >from Warszawa.]

At 03:19 AM 7/17/2005, Nachum Tuchman wrote:

The question is whether or not there are Jewish records >from the 1860's onward?
As this is my friends late husband's family, she has no one to get
information from.
If she can find burial records,it may help her to find out a bit about the
family.

Since the Mormons are very active in Hawaii, your friend should consult a
Mormon Family History Center, which can, I believe, provide microfilm
copies of the records at any of their centers. It's at least worth a try.

Sherry Mayrent
Watertown, MA

At 03:19 AM 7/17/2005, Nachum Tuchman wrote:

The question is whether or not there are Jewish records >from the 1860's onward?
As this is my friends late husband's family, she has no one to get
information from.
If she can find burial records,it may help her to find out a bit about the
family.

Since the Mormons are very active in Hawaii, your friend should consult a
Mormon Family History Center, which can, I believe, provide microfilm
copies of the records at any of their centers. It's at least worth a try.

Sherry Mayrent
Watertown, MA

Seeking Israeli Independence War death records.

Regards,

Henry Grandicki

E-Mail henry@mail.grandicki.net
http://www.grandicki.net

Dear cousins,
I have tried to thank people individually, but thanks to all who
responded to my queries re Latvia archives (sounds like money well
spent) and the Hamburg lists.

Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

Seeking Israeli Independence War death records.

Regards,

Henry Grandicki

E-Mail henry@mail.grandicki.net
http://www.grandicki.net

Dear cousins,
I have tried to thank people individually, but thanks to all who
responded to my queries re Latvia archives (sounds like money well
spent) and the Hamburg lists.

Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY