Date   

Re: Yurburg, Lithuania #general

steven weiss <szome@...>
 

Most assuredly it is Yurburg, Lithuania, shtetl page at :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Yurburg/yurburg.html


was a rabbi who died in his home in Yurgenborg, Russia. Does anyone have
any idea where that might be or what the real town name might be? I can't
find any reference anywhere to anything like Yurgenborg.
Steven Weiss
Chicago


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Yurburg, Lithuania #general

steven weiss <szome@...>
 

Most assuredly it is Yurburg, Lithuania, shtetl page at :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Yurburg/yurburg.html


was a rabbi who died in his home in Yurgenborg, Russia. Does anyone have
any idea where that might be or what the real town name might be? I can't
find any reference anywhere to anything like Yurgenborg.
Steven Weiss
Chicago


Re: First Jews in England #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

David Kravitz wrote on 17 jul 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

"Evertjan Hannivoort wrote

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.
David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence?

The below maps are no proof, of cource, but are a nice visualisation:

<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map32.jpg>;
<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map36.jpg>;
<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map38.jpg>;

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Jews in England #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

David Kravitz wrote on 17 jul 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

"Evertjan Hannivoort wrote

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000
<http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver
Cromwell invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is
Sephardic, dating >from 1702, and is still very much in use today
despite, not the least, an IRA bomb. I understand that they hold very
good records going back 300 years. The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue from
this period is in Plymouth going back 250 years and I am sure they,
too, have some records.
David, the fact they were kicked out strengthens my thesis in that the
1702 sephardim where not the first.

Why do you think that before the fimal kick-out of 1395 they had no
synagogues? Only because of lack of evidence?

The below maps are no proof, of cource, but are a nice visualisation:

<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map32.jpg>;
<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map36.jpg>;
<http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/maps/map38.jpg>;

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


Re: First Jews in England #general

Yisrael Asper
 

There were Jews in England before the Norman conquest but after the Norman
conquest the Jews who were already in England found themselves culturally and
otherwise taken over by the French Jews. The English Jews had French names and
so on. After the Expulsion of the Jews >from England Marranos came to England.
Cromwell never was able to give the Jews a formal revocation of the 1290
Expulsion making then Rabbi Menashe ben Israel feel like a failure in his efforts.
What Cromwell did was to make it that Jews no longer had to pretend hey were
Christians to be in England. He simply recognized the Jewish community's
existence. It seems to have been the best he could do.

Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA

"Evertjan Hannivoort wrote

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the Phoenicians,
far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the United Synagogue
writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000 <http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver Cromwell
invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is Sephardic, dating >from
1702, and is still very much in use today despite, not the least, an IRA
bomb. I understand that they hold very good records going back 300 years.
The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue >from this period is in Plymouth going back
250 years and I am sure they, too, have some records.

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Jews in England #general

Yisrael Asper
 

There were Jews in England before the Norman conquest but after the Norman
conquest the Jews who were already in England found themselves culturally and
otherwise taken over by the French Jews. The English Jews had French names and
so on. After the Expulsion of the Jews >from England Marranos came to England.
Cromwell never was able to give the Jews a formal revocation of the 1290
Expulsion making then Rabbi Menashe ben Israel feel like a failure in his efforts.
What Cromwell did was to make it that Jews no longer had to pretend hey were
Christians to be in England. He simply recognized the Jewish community's
existence. It seems to have been the best he could do.

Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA

"Evertjan Hannivoort wrote

The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the Phoenicians,
far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the United Synagogue
writes here: Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000 <http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest, but even if they did
arrive with William the conqueror as late as 1066, your expectation of
great genealogical resources is not very reasonable. ;-} " <<

The Jews of England were kicked out and only returned after Oliver Cromwell
invited them back. The oldest synagogue in England is Sephardic, dating >from
1702, and is still very much in use today despite, not the least, an IRA
bomb. I understand that they hold very good records going back 300 years.
The oldest Ashkenazi synagogue >from this period is in Plymouth going back
250 years and I am sure they, too, have some records.

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel


Re: British-Jewish genealogy #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

wrote on 17 jul 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

<The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here:

Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000 <http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest,>

---

The website source speaks of the Cornish town called Marazion being
possibly an indication that Jews were in Cornwall in the Phoenician
period. This has been refuted many times. Similarly as to Jews in
Roman Britain, this was examined extensively by Shimon Applebaum in
an article in Transactions of the Jewish Historical Society of
England, vol 17, 1953. He concluded that there was possibly some minor
evidence but it was very problematic and uncertain.
The possibility however is much greater than Jews having arrived in the
America's before 1492.

If the first Jews came only with or shortly after William the Conqueror,
the fact that they were explelled >from Britain in 1395 strengthens that.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: British-Jewish genealogy #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

wrote on 17 jul 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

<The first Jewish families arived in Britain perhaps with the
Phoenicians, far more tha 2000 years ago, as Simon Goulden of the
United Synagogue writes here:

Daf Hashavua 23/9/2000 <http://tinyurl.com/7ts5n>;

Or else they surely came with the Roman conquest,>

---

The website source speaks of the Cornish town called Marazion being
possibly an indication that Jews were in Cornwall in the Phoenician
period. This has been refuted many times. Similarly as to Jews in
Roman Britain, this was examined extensively by Shimon Applebaum in
an article in Transactions of the Jewish Historical Society of
England, vol 17, 1953. He concluded that there was possibly some minor
evidence but it was very problematic and uncertain.
The possibility however is much greater than Jews having arrived in the
America's before 1492.

If the first Jews came only with or shortly after William the Conqueror,
the fact that they were explelled >from Britain in 1395 strengthens that.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


short Polish letter - translation please #galicia

Tomer Brunner
 

Dear Genners,
Few months ago I wrote a letter to the archive in Bochnia (eastern to
Krakow),
asking about my grandmother's family.
I recently got a reply back >from the archive, asking to pay a fee.
The letter is in Polish and I would like to ask for help in translating it,
or at least the few important lines (which include the "how to pay", "how
much"
"how to pay with credit card" details...etc.)
I uploaded the letter to:

http://dabronx.jetstreamhosting.com/gallery/Tomer

press on the image to enlarge it and than you can use the "add comment"
below the image. (In this way everyone can see the comments added by other
people and so one can save time and not duplicate an existing reply).
If anyone chose to add a comment (instead of only emailing me) - please
write also your name and email so that I could thank you personally.

I would appreciate any help.

Thank you very much,
Tomer Brunner - Natanya & Beer-Sheva, Israel.

partial research list: KONIGSBERG , KELMAN , PREISS, HOLLES, MONDRER,
WEISER,
HALBERSTAM, FENICHEL, AMSTERDAM - >from Bochnia.
TEICHER, KONIGSBERG, HEISELBEK - anywhere in Galicia.


Re: Ellis Island - Do I Give Up? #general

Jan Groshan <jangro@...>
 

A special thanks to all who responded. While Steve Morse's database is
certainly complete, it turns out that I received a reply >from another poster
on the newgroup who actually did find that in fact it appears this family
group got off in Boston, not in New York. The poster wrote: If you look at
the Missing Manifest page for T715, Roll 3338 frame 816 it looks like the
Majestic stopped off at Boston before arriving New York. Maybe your
father-in-law got off there. There is a Hebrew Immigrant Aid Boston Arrival
Card for _______. " That, in fact, turns out to be *exactly* the family
I am looking for. It also answers the question as to why the database which
I originally found the manifest on was a Boston Passenger List
manifest.....and here I thought the "commerical company" had simply listed
the wrong database name !!!!

Jan Groshan


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia short Polish letter - translation please #galicia

Tomer Brunner
 

Dear Genners,
Few months ago I wrote a letter to the archive in Bochnia (eastern to
Krakow),
asking about my grandmother's family.
I recently got a reply back >from the archive, asking to pay a fee.
The letter is in Polish and I would like to ask for help in translating it,
or at least the few important lines (which include the "how to pay", "how
much"
"how to pay with credit card" details...etc.)
I uploaded the letter to:

http://dabronx.jetstreamhosting.com/gallery/Tomer

press on the image to enlarge it and than you can use the "add comment"
below the image. (In this way everyone can see the comments added by other
people and so one can save time and not duplicate an existing reply).
If anyone chose to add a comment (instead of only emailing me) - please
write also your name and email so that I could thank you personally.

I would appreciate any help.

Thank you very much,
Tomer Brunner - Natanya & Beer-Sheva, Israel.

partial research list: KONIGSBERG , KELMAN , PREISS, HOLLES, MONDRER,
WEISER,
HALBERSTAM, FENICHEL, AMSTERDAM - >from Bochnia.
TEICHER, KONIGSBERG, HEISELBEK - anywhere in Galicia.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ellis Island - Do I Give Up? #general

Jan Groshan <jangro@...>
 

A special thanks to all who responded. While Steve Morse's database is
certainly complete, it turns out that I received a reply >from another poster
on the newgroup who actually did find that in fact it appears this family
group got off in Boston, not in New York. The poster wrote: If you look at
the Missing Manifest page for T715, Roll 3338 frame 816 it looks like the
Majestic stopped off at Boston before arriving New York. Maybe your
father-in-law got off there. There is a Hebrew Immigrant Aid Boston Arrival
Card for _______. " That, in fact, turns out to be *exactly* the family
I am looking for. It also answers the question as to why the database which
I originally found the manifest on was a Boston Passenger List
manifest.....and here I thought the "commerical company" had simply listed
the wrong database name !!!!

Jan Groshan


Re: Ellis Island - Do I Give Up? #general

Susan&David
 

Jan: Have you tried searching the actual passenger list itself, page by
page using Steve Morse's Missing Manifests ?
Go to http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/mm.htm?back=index.htm
You will find the Majestic on Series T715, Roll 3338, Frame 590

David Rosen
Boston, MA

Jan Groshan wrote:

After much searching on [name of commercial company removed], I finally found my
father-in-law on a ship manifest....the Magestic...Departed >from Cherbourg, Port
of Arrival: New York, August 1, 1923. I then went to the Ellis Island database to
see if I could find anything there,using the spelling I had found on the manifest
but there is nothing. Am I to assume the Port of New York is not necessarily
Ellis Island, or that somehow he and his mother, sister and brother slipped
through without being noticed? Interestingly, I can't find him on the 1930
federal census either, although I'm certain he was in either New York or New
Jersey at the time.
Jan Groshan


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ellis Island - Do I Give Up? #general

Susan&David
 

Jan: Have you tried searching the actual passenger list itself, page by
page using Steve Morse's Missing Manifests ?
Go to http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/mm.htm?back=index.htm
You will find the Majestic on Series T715, Roll 3338, Frame 590

David Rosen
Boston, MA

Jan Groshan wrote:

After much searching on [name of commercial company removed], I finally found my
father-in-law on a ship manifest....the Magestic...Departed >from Cherbourg, Port
of Arrival: New York, August 1, 1923. I then went to the Ellis Island database to
see if I could find anything there,using the spelling I had found on the manifest
but there is nothing. Am I to assume the Port of New York is not necessarily
Ellis Island, or that somehow he and his mother, sister and brother slipped
through without being noticed? Interestingly, I can't find him on the 1930
federal census either, although I'm certain he was in either New York or New
Jersey at the time.
Jan Groshan


Las Vegas Conference Congrats #general

Carol Isaak
 

Congratulations to the Las Vegas conference committee. What an enormous
job well done. (A human scale conference venue for a change made it all
so efficient and easy to negotiate between the great variety of speaker
presentations.) Such an enjoyable and edifying week! Thank you all,
Las Vegas!

Carol Bleecher Isaak
Petaluma, California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Las Vegas Conference Congrats #general

Carol Isaak
 

Congratulations to the Las Vegas conference committee. What an enormous
job well done. (A human scale conference venue for a change made it all
so efficient and easy to negotiate between the great variety of speaker
presentations.) Such an enjoyable and edifying week! Thank you all,
Las Vegas!

Carol Bleecher Isaak
Petaluma, California


Re: Were cousin marriages legal in NY in 1909? #general

Nachum Tuchman
 

Hi,

My maternal GM's sister married her cousin, supposedly they were first
cousins. I have yet to figure out exactly what there relationship
was, prior to their marriage.

They lived in Scranton, PA. Whatever their relationship was, it was
illegal for them to marry in the state of PA. According to my cousin,
one of their daughters, they married in Binghamton, NY. This was,
according to information that I gleaned >from a census (probably 1930),
in 1909.


On 7/17/05, Israel P <IsraelP@pikholz.org> wrote:

An aunt of my mother's married a man who may have been her first cousin,
in 1909 in Manhattan.
I have ordered the marriage record, intending to see the parents' names,
but it occurs to me that if NY did not allow cousin marriages, the
information on the marriage record may be phoney. (There were recent
immigrants >from Russia and may not have had independent birth
documentation.)
Am I worrying for naught?
Israel Pickholtz
Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel


Please note my new e-mail address

Searching:
TUCHMAN / KLARMAN / ASPIS - Busko-Zdroj Poland, Kielce Gubernia
LIEBERMAN / ZYSSMAN - Lowicz Poland =20
RAIDER / REJDER / GINSBERG - Soly/Smorgon Belarus
ROSINSKY / BAYLETT / PAILET / BERNSTEIN - London
KIWI - Samter, Posen/Berlin BUETOW - Zeitz/Berlin


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Were cousin marriages legal in NY in 1909? #general

Nachum Tuchman
 

Hi,

My maternal GM's sister married her cousin, supposedly they were first
cousins. I have yet to figure out exactly what there relationship
was, prior to their marriage.

They lived in Scranton, PA. Whatever their relationship was, it was
illegal for them to marry in the state of PA. According to my cousin,
one of their daughters, they married in Binghamton, NY. This was,
according to information that I gleaned >from a census (probably 1930),
in 1909.


On 7/17/05, Israel P <IsraelP@pikholz.org> wrote:

An aunt of my mother's married a man who may have been her first cousin,
in 1909 in Manhattan.
I have ordered the marriage record, intending to see the parents' names,
but it occurs to me that if NY did not allow cousin marriages, the
information on the marriage record may be phoney. (There were recent
immigrants >from Russia and may not have had independent birth
documentation.)
Am I worrying for naught?
Israel Pickholtz
Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel


Please note my new e-mail address

Searching:
TUCHMAN / KLARMAN / ASPIS - Busko-Zdroj Poland, Kielce Gubernia
LIEBERMAN / ZYSSMAN - Lowicz Poland =20
RAIDER / REJDER / GINSBERG - Soly/Smorgon Belarus
ROSINSKY / BAYLETT / PAILET / BERNSTEIN - London
KIWI - Samter, Posen/Berlin BUETOW - Zeitz/Berlin


Re: Were cousin marriages legal in NY in 1909? #general

Jill Carrigan <jrljc@...>
 

At that point in NY, they probably would not have cared. I'd still go for
it.

Jill Carrigan

"Israel P" <IsraelP@pikholz.org> wrote

An aunt of my mother's married a man who may have been her first cousin,
in 1909 in Manhattan.

I have ordered the marriage record, intending to see the parents' names,
but it occurs to me that if NY did not allow cousin marriages, the
information on the marriage record may be phoney. (There were recent
immigrants >from Russia and may not have had independent birth
documentation.)

Am I worrying for naught?

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Were cousin marriages legal in NY in 1909? #general

Jill Carrigan <jrljc@...>
 

At that point in NY, they probably would not have cared. I'd still go for
it.

Jill Carrigan

"Israel P" <IsraelP@pikholz.org> wrote

An aunt of my mother's married a man who may have been her first cousin,
in 1909 in Manhattan.

I have ordered the marriage record, intending to see the parents' names,
but it occurs to me that if NY did not allow cousin marriages, the
information on the marriage record may be phoney. (There were recent
immigrants >from Russia and may not have had independent birth
documentation.)

Am I worrying for naught?

Israel Pickholtz