On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:35:15 UTC, a.sharon@shaw.ca (Alexander Sharon)
opined:

"Myra & Peter Waddell" wrote

I have recently received my grandfather's application for English
naturalisation and note that he was born in (what looks like) "Kolnapin" -
in the Province of Lomza Russia. I can find online a lot of web-sites for
Lomza but Kolnapin doesn't exist, although I have tried numerous different
spelling to try to trace it.

I wondered whether perhaps someone, with a greater knowledge than mine of
Lomza Province (that wouldn't be difficult), would be able to suggest what
this name really is. Also, why would the application say Russia when the
web-pages say that Lomza is in Poland?

Hi,

Would it be possible to scan the handwritten image of the elusive "Kolnapin"
to verify it's name?
There are several possibilities, personally I believe that this is village
Kobylin but it can be only verified after image examination.

It would be also helpful if you will provide your grandfather surname.

Lomza Guberniya (Russian administrative division equal to province) was part
of the Russian Empire till 1918.

There is always confusion in translating names of political divisions >from
one language to another. For example, every list relating to this area in
the JRI-PL indices puts Lomza Gubernia in either Warsaw Province of
Bialystok Province. If one says "gubernia" is "equivalent to province", then
there are provinces within provinces, which ain't so. Granted that my
Polish-English dictionary (Langenscheidt) translates "wojewodztwo" (which is
the Polish equivalent of Russian "gubernia") as "province"; but it
translates English "province" by three other Polish words, none of which is
"wojewodztwo". It is well to keep "gubernia" and "province" distinct.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

A cousin gave me a family history. It says that my grandfather and his
brothers were born in Sarle, State of Korne, Russia. I finally figured
out that some "r's" should be "v's," and they were born in Savli (Siauliai),
Kovno (now Lithuania). The history says that my g-g-grandfather, Moses
Leiserowitz, was a rabbi who died in his home in Yurgenborg, Russia.
Does anyone have any idea where that might be or what the real town name
might be? I can't find any reference anywhere to anything like Yurgenborg.

Please reply privately. Thanks for any leads.

Kathy Rand
ksrand@aol.com

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:35:15 UTC, a.sharon@shaw.ca (Alexander Sharon)
opined:

"Myra & Peter Waddell" wrote

I have recently received my grandfather's application for English
naturalisation and note that he was born in (what looks like) "Kolnapin" -
in the Province of Lomza Russia. I can find online a lot of web-sites for
Lomza but Kolnapin doesn't exist, although I have tried numerous different
spelling to try to trace it.

I wondered whether perhaps someone, with a greater knowledge than mine of
Lomza Province (that wouldn't be difficult), would be able to suggest what
this name really is. Also, why would the application say Russia when the
web-pages say that Lomza is in Poland?

Hi,

Would it be possible to scan the handwritten image of the elusive "Kolnapin"
to verify it's name?
There are several possibilities, personally I believe that this is village
Kobylin but it can be only verified after image examination.

It would be also helpful if you will provide your grandfather surname.

Lomza Guberniya (Russian administrative division equal to province) was part
of the Russian Empire till 1918.

There is always confusion in translating names of political divisions >from
one language to another. For example, every list relating to this area in
the JRI-PL indices puts Lomza Gubernia in either Warsaw Province of
Bialystok Province. If one says "gubernia" is "equivalent to province", then
there are provinces within provinces, which ain't so. Granted that my
Polish-English dictionary (Langenscheidt) translates "wojewodztwo" (which is
the Polish equivalent of Russian "gubernia") as "province"; but it
translates English "province" by three other Polish words, none of which is
"wojewodztwo". It is well to keep "gubernia" and "province" distinct.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

A cousin gave me a family history. It says that my grandfather and his
brothers were born in Sarle, State of Korne, Russia. I finally figured
out that some "r's" should be "v's," and they were born in Savli (Siauliai),
Kovno (now Lithuania). The history says that my g-g-grandfather, Moses
Leiserowitz, was a rabbi who died in his home in Yurgenborg, Russia.
Does anyone have any idea where that might be or what the real town name
might be? I can't find any reference anywhere to anything like Yurgenborg.

Please reply privately. Thanks for any leads.

Kathy Rand
ksrand@aol.com

The Archives charge $50 to do the research for you. You then have to
pay for the documentation and translation all of which takes time.
Their fees are not excessive. The data is in very old files and some
of them are really difficult to read.
Arlene Beare
Latvia SIG Archive Representative

Original message-

The archives in Latvia have found the birth record of an ancestor, for
which I have already paid $50. They then wrote to me to ask if I want
the record. Two months later I have just gotten a bill for another $36
to get the record. I didn't expect to be charged again. Is this usual?
Yes, it is very exciting that this was found. As far as I knew this
family came >from Lithuania, and one census record for my grandmother's
sister said she "came from" Leipaja, so I gave it a whirl.
Thanks,
Ruth Hyman

The Archives charge $50 to do the research for you. You then have to
pay for the documentation and translation all of which takes time.
Their fees are not excessive. The data is in very old files and some
of them are really difficult to read.
Arlene Beare
Latvia SIG Archive Representative

Original message-

The archives in Latvia have found the birth record of an ancestor, for
which I have already paid $50. They then wrote to me to ask if I want
the record. Two months later I have just gotten a bill for another $36
to get the record. I didn't expect to be charged again. Is this usual?
Yes, it is very exciting that this was found. As far as I knew this
family came >from Lithuania, and one census record for my grandmother's
sister said she "came from" Leipaja, so I gave it a whirl.
Thanks,
Ruth Hyman

The Israel Genealogical Society is pleased to invite proposals >from
potential speakers for the First Annual One Day Seminar on Jewish
Genealogy. The seminar will be held on Monday, 28 November 2005 at
Beit Hatefutzot, Tel Aviv. The official language of the seminar will
be Hebrew, but presentations will be made in English as well.

The deadline for submitting proposals is the end of July. So far we
have received some very high quality and interesting proposals. If
you would like to add yours, time is running out! A number of you
made one line proposals that did not fit the parameters that we
posted on our website [see below]. If you intend to pursue your
endeavours, please note that Sunday, 31 July is the last day we can
accept submissions. The proposals will then be given to the program
committee to choose the proposals that they think would be the most
interesting and impart the most information to the seminar
participants. Since there is a whole procedure involved, we are
obligated to stick closely to our deadlines. We would not like anyone
to be disappointed because s/he missed the deadline, so please take
care to note the date and to get your proposals in beforehand!

The seminar is entitled:

Family Roots in the Land of Israel and in the World

The emphasis of this study day will be to introduce researchers to
new, possibly unknown resources.

For further details in English, please go to this site:
http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2005/yy2005-E-KK.html

The Hebrew details are in an automatically downloaded .pdf file at
this URL:
http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2005/SeminarCall2005-H.pdf

We look forward to your presentation proposals!

Martha Lev-Zion for the Projects Coordinating Committee
Israel Genealogical Society

The Israel Genealogical Society is pleased to invite proposals >from
potential speakers for the First Annual One Day Seminar on Jewish
Genealogy. The seminar will be held on Monday, 28 November 2005 at
Beit Hatefutzot, Tel Aviv. The official language of the seminar will
be Hebrew, but presentations will be made in English as well.

The deadline for submitting proposals is the end of July. So far we
have received some very high quality and interesting proposals. If
you would like to add yours, time is running out! A number of you
made one line proposals that did not fit the parameters that we
posted on our website [see below]. If you intend to pursue your
endeavours, please note that Sunday, 31 July is the last day we can
accept submissions. The proposals will then be given to the program
committee to choose the proposals that they think would be the most
interesting and impart the most information to the seminar
participants. Since there is a whole procedure involved, we are
obligated to stick closely to our deadlines. We would not like anyone
to be disappointed because s/he missed the deadline, so please take
care to note the date and to get your proposals in beforehand!

The seminar is entitled:

Family Roots in the Land of Israel and in the World

The emphasis of this study day will be to introduce researchers to
new, possibly unknown resources.

For further details in English, please go to this site:
http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2005/yy2005-E-KK.html

The Hebrew details are in an automatically downloaded .pdf file at
this URL:
http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2005/SeminarCall2005-H.pdf

We look forward to your presentation proposals!

Martha Lev-Zion for the Projects Coordinating Committee
Israel Genealogical Society

I am hoping that someone on this list has a copy of the book "Jewish
Cemeteries of Western Massachusetts (2005)". I am particularly interested
in the Springfield and Worcester area where many people >from Butrimantz
and surrounds migrated to.

Thanks!

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: If you have the book, please respond to Jerry privately.

I am hoping that someone on this list has a copy of the book "Jewish
Cemeteries of Western Massachusetts (2005)". I am particularly interested
in the Springfield and Worcester area where many people >from Butrimantz
and surrounds migrated to.

Thanks!

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: If you have the book, please respond to Jerry privately.

I have received through JRI Poland the death certificates of my
paternal GGGGFs Aijyk Galonzka and Kelman Furman, and I
would be really greatful if someone was able to translate
them for me.

The addresses are

http://home.btconnect.com/benforman/AijyK_Death_Cert_WEB.jpg
http://home.btconnect.com/benforman/kelman_death_cert_WEB.jpg

thanks so much, 12 months ago I though the furthest I could
trace my Forman ancestors back was 1900 to an unknown place
in Germany/Poland but thanks to my dads cousin, you guys and
JRI I have traced the family back a further 100 years :)

Thanks so much

Ben Forman

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

I have received through JRI Poland the death certificates of my
paternal GGGGFs Aijyk Galonzka and Kelman Furman, and I
would be really greatful if someone was able to translate
them for me.

The addresses are

http://home.btconnect.com/benforman/AijyK_Death_Cert_WEB.jpg
http://home.btconnect.com/benforman/kelman_death_cert_WEB.jpg

thanks so much, 12 months ago I though the furthest I could
trace my Forman ancestors back was 1900 to an unknown place
in Germany/Poland but thanks to my dads cousin, you guys and
JRI I have traced the family back a further 100 years :)

Thanks so much

Ben Forman

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

Elliott Simonberg asks:

<<I may visit the Polish State Archives in Warsaw this fall. Has anybody
recently visited there and conducted personal research?>>

I visited AGAD in Warsaw and the Polish Archives in Czestochowa in 2002.

Although many archivists and staff members speak English, not all do, and
it is extremely helpful to go with a translator. If this is not financially
feasible, you should at least prepare a list of research questions written
in Polish before your visit and have in hand a copy of Judith R. Frazin's
book: "A Translation Guide to 19th-Century Polish-Language
Civil-Registration Documents."

For each microfilm set requested, you need to fill out a form, in Polish--of
course--and if you don't go with a translator try to get a copy of the form
ahead of time so you are prepared to fill it out properly. The archive
reading rooms are busy places and the workers, while helpful, don't usually
have time to give you much personal attention. They are not able to conduct
research for you.

Once you are looking at the microfilms, having a translator is invaluable in
deciphering what you are looking at. Also bear in mind that some of the
records you're researching might be in Cyrillic, so make sure your
translator is fluent in Russian as well. If you are searching through
records not yet indexed, a translator can provide you with guidance on the
most efficient way to conduct such a search. (Luckily, many Polish metrical
records have their own alphabetized indexes before the list of records,
simplifying the process.)

There was no charge for me to look at any films or books, but there was a
$10 per page copying charge, and in Czestochowa, the same price was charged
for digitally photographing a page, but there is a greatly reduced fee for
Polish citizens. If you are subtle, you might benefit >from the lower rate if
your researcher does the requesting.

If the LDS has filmed the records you're interested in, or if JRI-Poland has
indexed them, there is really no need to view these in person at the
archives. Order the LDS films and copy the records at your local Family
History Center or order records >from the archives through JRI-Poland. Their
shopping basket system is efficient and the records arrive fairly quickly.

The most exciting thing you can do at an archive is to hold one of the old,
original books in your hands....like a Book of Residents for your ancestor's
town....and it is those records that you should focus your overseas research
on. Check Miriam Weiner's http://www.rtrfoundation.org for details on what
types of records are located in the Polish State Archives and also check the
SEZAM database at:

http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=376

which contains information on the Polish national archival holdings. Click
on "data bases" which will take you to: PRADZIAD--The Programme for the
Registration of Records >from Parish and Public (civil) Registers, with an
explanation in English of these records, and then click "data bases" again:

http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.eng.php

There are instructions in English, and a guide to entering your town names
and religion--
"moj?eszowe," and with a click on "search," a list of their holdings for
malzenstwa = marriages, urodzenia = births, and zgony = deaths, will appear.

Once you know the various locations of the records you are seeking, you can
better plan the research part of your trip to Poland so that you can use
your time efficiently and productively. Also...don't forget to find out when
these archives might be closed for vacation or holidays prior to your
planning your trip.

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com

With reference to the recent question by Suzanne Richmond of the possible
reason for late registrations of the "Akt" of Birth, I wish to add that
many members of my family who were born in Slawatycze, Poland, including my
grandfather, born in 1880, and my mother born in 1903 had their official
"Akt" of birth registered only in November of 1937.

During a Jewish genealogy Conference I had asked Prof. Antony Polonsky of
Brandeis University for the reason of such late registration. Dr. Polonsky
directed me to Prof. Jerzy Tomaszewski of Warsaw University who specializes
in the history of Jews of Poland. Here is Dr. Tomaszewski's reply:-

"In the mid 1930s Nazi Germany was expelling all Jews who were born in
Poland back to Poland and before long Poland closed their borders to these
Jews >from Germany. Therefore, many Shtetl dwellers, particularly in the
Eastern provinces, who never bothered to register their births, now rushed
to prove their Polish birth and to obtain Polish citizenship."

I also have in my possession my mother's and my father's original "Dowod
Osobisty", the Polish internal passports, complete with pictures, which
were also issued in 1937.

I hope this adds some clarification for the late registration of births by
Shtetl Jews in Poland.

Henry Gitelman
Montreal, Canada

***************************************************************************************

Elliott Simonberg asks:

<<I may visit the Polish State Archives in Warsaw this fall. Has anybody
recently visited there and conducted personal research?>>

I visited AGAD in Warsaw and the Polish Archives in Czestochowa in 2002.

Although many archivists and staff members speak English, not all do, and
it is extremely helpful to go with a translator. If this is not financially
feasible, you should at least prepare a list of research questions written
in Polish before your visit and have in hand a copy of Judith R. Frazin's
book: "A Translation Guide to 19th-Century Polish-Language
Civil-Registration Documents."

For each microfilm set requested, you need to fill out a form, in Polish--of
course--and if you don't go with a translator try to get a copy of the form
ahead of time so you are prepared to fill it out properly. The archive
reading rooms are busy places and the workers, while helpful, don't usually
have time to give you much personal attention. They are not able to conduct
research for you.

Once you are looking at the microfilms, having a translator is invaluable in
deciphering what you are looking at. Also bear in mind that some of the
records you're researching might be in Cyrillic, so make sure your
translator is fluent in Russian as well. If you are searching through
records not yet indexed, a translator can provide you with guidance on the
most efficient way to conduct such a search. (Luckily, many Polish metrical
records have their own alphabetized indexes before the list of records,
simplifying the process.)

There was no charge for me to look at any films or books, but there was a
$10 per page copying charge, and in Czestochowa, the same price was charged
for digitally photographing a page, but there is a greatly reduced fee for
Polish citizens. If you are subtle, you might benefit >from the lower rate if
your researcher does the requesting.

If the LDS has filmed the records you're interested in, or if JRI-Poland has
indexed them, there is really no need to view these in person at the
archives. Order the LDS films and copy the records at your local Family
History Center or order records >from the archives through JRI-Poland. Their
shopping basket system is efficient and the records arrive fairly quickly.

The most exciting thing you can do at an archive is to hold one of the old,
original books in your hands....like a Book of Residents for your ancestor's
town....and it is those records that you should focus your overseas research
on. Check Miriam Weiner's http://www.rtrfoundation.org for details on what
types of records are located in the Polish State Archives and also check the
SEZAM database at:

http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=376

which contains information on the Polish national archival holdings. Click
on "data bases" which will take you to: PRADZIAD--The Programme for the
Registration of Records >from Parish and Public (civil) Registers, with an
explanation in English of these records, and then click "data bases" again:

http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.eng.php

There are instructions in English, and a guide to entering your town names
and religion--
"moj?eszowe," and with a click on "search," a list of their holdings for
malzenstwa = marriages, urodzenia = births, and zgony = deaths, will appear.

Once you know the various locations of the records you are seeking, you can
better plan the research part of your trip to Poland so that you can use
your time efficiently and productively. Also...don't forget to find out when
these archives might be closed for vacation or holidays prior to your
planning your trip.

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com

With reference to the recent question by Suzanne Richmond of the possible
reason for late registrations of the "Akt" of Birth, I wish to add that
many members of my family who were born in Slawatycze, Poland, including my
grandfather, born in 1880, and my mother born in 1903 had their official
"Akt" of birth registered only in November of 1937.

During a Jewish genealogy Conference I had asked Prof. Antony Polonsky of
Brandeis University for the reason of such late registration. Dr. Polonsky
directed me to Prof. Jerzy Tomaszewski of Warsaw University who specializes
in the history of Jews of Poland. Here is Dr. Tomaszewski's reply:-

"In the mid 1930s Nazi Germany was expelling all Jews who were born in
Poland back to Poland and before long Poland closed their borders to these
Jews >from Germany. Therefore, many Shtetl dwellers, particularly in the
Eastern provinces, who never bothered to register their births, now rushed
to prove their Polish birth and to obtain Polish citizenship."

I also have in my possession my mother's and my father's original "Dowod
Osobisty", the Polish internal passports, complete with pictures, which
were also issued in 1937.

I hope this adds some clarification for the late registration of births by
Shtetl Jews in Poland.

Henry Gitelman
Montreal, Canada

***************************************************************************************

Sometimes you can't win......I have obviously confused almost everyone
who responded to my posting on this subject.
Let's try again:

Wigdor ZYLBERMAN married Ryfka MAKOWER in Przasnysz in 1844.
Ryfka's parents were Boruch Szymkowicz and Ruchel bat Jakob.
They lived in the shtetl of Romany Dzialo and their childrens' births were
recorded in Chorzele. In 1845-57, Ryfka is listed as Ryfka daughter of
Boruch.

However, in 1862 she is recorded as Ryfka SZPILMAN for the births of
Aron and Nosek and when Srol Jankief was born in 1863, she was recorded
as Ryfka GOLDSZTEJN.

points of clarification:

1. Wigdor was the father of all the children. I thought this was
implicit when I referred to "their children's births" in Chorzele.
I guess is wasn't obvious after all.

2. The records were all PSA records >from microfilm and indexed on
JRI-Poland. I also thought this was implicit but perhaps I should
not have assumed folks would necessarily be familiar with the records

from Chorzele. I personally obtained the names of the parents
from the microfilms in question.

Summarizing, my question is "is anyone familiar with a MAKOWER or
SZPILMAN or GOLDSZTEJN family >from near Chorzele/Przasnysz" for whom
these records fit?

Sorry for the confusion.

Marty Meyers

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

Sometimes you can't win......I have obviously confused almost everyone
who responded to my posting on this subject.
Let's try again:

Wigdor ZYLBERMAN married Ryfka MAKOWER in Przasnysz in 1844.
Ryfka's parents were Boruch Szymkowicz and Ruchel bat Jakob.
They lived in the shtetl of Romany Dzialo and their childrens' births were
recorded in Chorzele. In 1845-57, Ryfka is listed as Ryfka daughter of
Boruch.

However, in 1862 she is recorded as Ryfka SZPILMAN for the births of
Aron and Nosek and when Srol Jankief was born in 1863, she was recorded
as Ryfka GOLDSZTEJN.

points of clarification:

1. Wigdor was the father of all the children. I thought this was
implicit when I referred to "their children's births" in Chorzele.
I guess is wasn't obvious after all.

2. The records were all PSA records >from microfilm and indexed on
JRI-Poland. I also thought this was implicit but perhaps I should
not have assumed folks would necessarily be familiar with the records

from Chorzele. I personally obtained the names of the parents
from the microfilms in question.

Summarizing, my question is "is anyone familiar with a MAKOWER or
SZPILMAN or GOLDSZTEJN family >from near Chorzele/Przasnysz" for whom
these records fit?

Sorry for the confusion.

Marty Meyers

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.

Can someone let me know where I can purchase the english translation of
Merkine yizkor book. thx Sal

Sal Kluger
Aberdeen NJ

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Can someone let me know where I can purchase the english translation of
Merkine yizkor book. thx Sal

Sal Kluger
Aberdeen NJ

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.